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PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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I would imagine the bill would be

Section one: this bill cancels the cuts in the budget control act of 2011

Section two: this bill requires 85 billion in cuts with the president having full (or limited) leeway in their implementation


I agree its weird but the GOP is as you pointed out not very bright.

You're right, but as I just realized, doing that still gives the President the power to alter previous appropriation bills, still.

And even if they make new ones, it becomes a line item veto.

I am fairly convinced now that I've thought it through there is no possible way for Congress to authorize the President to cut anything ever.

the only way it works is through a handshake agreement where the President simply chooses not to spend all the money which of course could also open him up for a Court challenge and impeachment, lol.

To the bolded: is this true?

Not to every detail but in terms of "Depart of Education gets $50 billion. Department of Transportation gets $25 billion" yes. And there are more specifics in those but there wouldn't be something like "x people must be hired for $50k each" or something.

Example: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112neH34O:e1360:
 

kingkitty

Member
So at the big military fort where I'm near, the sequester doesn't really hurt the military dudes, mostly just the civilian workers on base. Apparently they're going to get a one day a week furlough, pretty shitty.

But from the big picture, almost the entire civilian force of the Department of Defense, around 800,000 will experience unpaid leave. The overseas military school I attended might have to cut additional school days off and adopt a four day system if this stupidity continues for too long. Although I'm sure many of the military brats over there won't complain too much lol.

What a mess though.
 

Angry Fork

Member
Anyone here think the sequester may be justified because it means cuts to our bloated defense? (which would likely never happen under another condition) Or do most of you take the position that keeping the big defense is a necessary evil to keep the economy from stagnating?

I haven't read exactly what cuts the sequester makes though, just general terms so maybe the grammar of my question is off.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Welp today the Sequester officially starts. Now we get our thirty day notice of furlough we have to sign and our 20% less pay per pay check.

I am so not voting for Obama's third term!

Oh, also: Man that Bob Woodward shit backfired on him so fucking hard. Like every member of the press is like 'uh if you ever covered the white house ever we get e-mails like this all the time no matter who the president is. It's not even a threat... the letter even apologizes for an earlier heated argument! Seriously are you fucking dumb?'

And I even saw a bit on Fox News at work where they were expressing skepticism about the story now lol
 

kingkitty

Member
Anyone here think the sequester may be justified because it means cuts to our bloated defense? (which would likely never happen under another condition) Or do most of you take the position that keeping the big defense is a necessary evil to keep the economy from stagnating?

I haven't read exactly what cuts the sequester makes though, just general terms so maybe the grammar of my question is off.

Well from what I've read on the internets, everything in the defense budget has to be cut by 9 percent, regardless of the size of the program/project. Service members are exempt from the cuts, so to make up for that, they furloughed pretty much every civilian related to the department.

I do think we need to cut down our giant defense spending but the way the sequester is cutting it isn't smart.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Yeah, the Jan. 2001 article is always immediately the first to spring to mind whenever "Onion's best article!" comes up for debate. It hasn't been topped yet, and just might never be topped. It's prophetic nature only deepens with the passage of time.
 
I recall John McCain getting in a hissyfit because it "disproportionately applied cuts to defense". So if McCain is mad, it's probably a good thing.

But then, cuts to federal jobs... probably offsets that considerably. Congress would probably fall over themselves to restore funding to defense; they probably won't be so inclined to the people whose wages or jobs are cut.
 
Anyone here think the sequester may be justified because it means cuts to our bloated defense? (which would likely never happen under another condition) Or do most of you take the position that keeping the big defense is a necessary evil to keep the economy from stagnating?

I haven't read exactly what cuts the sequester makes though, just general terms so maybe the grammar of my question is off.

Yes. Defense needs to be cut. Do something productive with that spending . . . build bridges, improve the electrical grid, build dams, build rail projects, install EV chargers, etc. But even if we can't pass such spending programs, at least some of those soldiers, scientists, and engineers that were dedicated to death are now (albeit involuntarily) freed to go work for companies that build instead of destroy.
 
"Jedi Mind Meld"

God dammit, Obama.

yovJf7Y.jpg
 
GG economic recovery

Maybe all that time wasted on guns could have been spent drafting a comprehensive "grand bargain" with McCain, Graham, and some House members.
 
Remember when David Shuster tried to influence the Wisconsin governor's election by lying about an imminent arrest of Walker?

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/report-scott-walker-probe-closed-with-no-new-charges-qh8vsfb-194194091.html

No one of any importance was ever implicated. Nice work, "journalist"

"Lying"? Do you have proof that he knew that was not true and reported it anyway?

From the link you provided, the situation was not exactly a good reflection on Walker.

No one of any importance was ever implicated. Nice work, "journalist"
What? LOL.
Longtime Walker aide Timothy D. Russell pleaded guilty Nov. 29 to stealing more than $21,000 in Operation Freedom money. He was sentenced to two years in prison in January. Kelly Rindfleisch, who worked for Walker in the county executive's office in 2010, was sentenced Nov. 19 to six months in jail for campaign fundraising at the courthouse using a secret email system installed there.

Darlene Wink, Walker's constituent services coordinator at the county, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors for doing campaign work while on the county clock.
 
Anyone here think the sequester may be justified because it means cuts to our bloated defense? (which would likely never happen under another condition) Or do most of you take the position that keeping the big defense is a necessary evil to keep the economy from stagnating?

Neither. I don't think the hit to defense "justifies" the sequester. If we want to reduce defense spending, then we should do that. We don't need to reduce other spending to do it, and we should even not simply cut that defense spending but reallocate it. That we can't do that is an indication of political weakness. And I don't think just slashing a bunch of shit and causing people to lose their jobs just to get at the defense budget is justified.

On the other hand, I also don't think keeping the big defense is a necessary evil to keep the economy from stagnating. It's very much an unnecessary evil. We should cut it and reallocate that spending elsewhere where it can benefit society more.

I realize you may just be expressing a form of political fatalism, but fatalism in politics strikes me as giving up before you've ever started. So I never do it. Let's talk about what we want, not what we can't have.
 

Acheron

Banned
GG economic recovery

Maybe all that time wasted on guns could have been spent drafting a comprehensive "grand bargain" with McCain, Graham, and some House members.

A "grand bargain" would have only rallied people around a "bipartisan consensus" that is the wrong idea.

I think MMT is trash, but I can't avoid agreeing it's supporters right now. Yields are at an all time low, there is no inflation, there is a lack of demand. The government must increase spending and temporarily raise deficits.

Deficit reduction is a great goal in expansions, not in recessions or stagnations.
 

Chichikov

Member
Deficit reduction is a great goal in expansions, not in recessions or stagnations.
Deficit reduction should never be a goal in the abstract, we should have a deficit target (which could be zero or even negative) and we should try and hit it (which would be easy if we had a functioning government).
 
Deficit reduction should never be a goal in the abstract, we should have a deficit target (which could be zero or even negative) and we should try and hit it (which would be easy if we had a functioning government).

I disagree with both of you! We should pay no attention to the deficit at all. We should pay attention to unemployment and inflation. The deficit is just a meaningless abstract number. Of course, concurrent with this, we should also disentangle bond issuance from deficit spending.
 

Chichikov

Member
I disagree with both of you! We should pay no attention to the deficit at all. We should pay attention to unemployment and inflation. The deficit is just a meaningless abstract number. Of course, concurrent with this, we should also disentangle bond issuance from deficit spending.
Are you making the case that money supply don't matter?
I didn't mean to imply that the deficit target should constant by the way.
 
Are you making the case that money supply don't matter?
I didn't mean to imply that the deficit target should constant by the way.

No, the money supply matters, but only with respect to the real world, i.e., unemployment and inflation. As long as you are optimizing those--and by that I mean minimizing unemployment and inflation--then whatever number the deficit tuns out to be is irrelevant. It can be 0 or it can be 70 bazillion. Doesn't matter, it's just a unit of account, an abstraction. It's supposed to be a tool to facilitate trade and an optimized economy, so let's use it that way. That means directing our attention towards the economy and not the abstract tool. If I am constructing a building, I try to make sure that everything I do goes toward optimizing its construction. The number of shovels I need is dictated by the construction requirements. If somebody told me I had to start obsessing over keeping the number of shovels within a certain range without regard to their need for optimizing the efficiency of the construction project, that person would be a crazy person. (Not the best analogy, I know, but it works well enough and I've not the time to think up a better one.)

The problem with deficit targets, besides focusing on a social abstraction having no real meaning in itself, is that the deficit is not controllable. The government can control how many dollars it will inject. It cannot control how many dollars it will get back, at least via the current means of taxation it relies upon. So you can never actually have a deficit target, or, at least, it's a fool's errand to have one. This is why attempts at deficit reduction by cutting spending can have the effect of increasing the deficit when tax receipts are reduced by even more than spending was cut. That happens because the government is only in control of one side of the equation. It is the strength of the economy that will largely dictate tax receipts. What the government should be doing is not deficit targeting but taking an appropriate fiscal orientation. A government can take an expansionary fiscal position by increasing its net spending (increase spending and/or cutting taxes) when there is insufficient aggregate demand and too much slack in the economy (unemployment). It can take a contractionary fiscal position by reducing its net spending (decreasing spending and/or raising taxes) to stem anticipated inflation. The size of the changes in net spending would be based solely on what is needed to optimize the real economy. And here again, the deficit number produced is totally irrelevant.

Note that with sequestration, the government is taking a contractionary fiscal position. This means it is trying to slow down the economy and increase unemployment. It thinks it is doing this to reduce the deficit, even though the deficit has no meaning to anybody (unlike one's job). The result, if not reversed, will be to increase the deficit as tax receipts fall like a rock.
 

kehs

Banned
Everytime I read about woodward the scene from arrested development pops into my head.

"Are you threatening me? Did you hear that everyone? Michael Bluth is threatening me!"
 
Call me a masochist but I read Redstate.com and just HAD to post this.

Agenda-chart-2-620x301.jpg


Also, this gem regarding the passing of the VAWA

We’d like to thank the following members who understood that the entire premise of the bill is flawed, superfluous, and an unconstitutional federal power grab. The only thing the federal government can do to protect women is to pass a universal right to carry bill. Everything else is just big government demagoguery. There is no reason a GOP-controlled House should have brought this bill before the body, much less the Senate passed version. If they are concerned about the political optics, they should have just ignored it and changed the subject to…let’s say gas and food prices. Now that is a novel idea. Giving the Democrats two full days to bludgeon you with gender warfare during debate time is evidently more politically prudent than repealing the ethanol mandate or some other useful legislation.
 
BTW, Did anyone read that article I posted about Spain?

I was set to move to Leon, Spain (dual citizen and my dad's family is all there) after graduation but with austerity and all the programs were cut back. Once their economy improves I'll definitely think about moving. I love that country.

Call me a masochist but I read Redstate.com and just HAD to post this.

Agenda-chart-2-620x301.jpg
Completely delusional.
 

Amir0x

Banned
TheOnion said:
On the economic side, Bush vowed to bring back economic stagnation by implementing substantial tax cuts, which would lead to a recession, which would necessitate a tax hike, which would lead to a drop in consumer spending, which would lead to layoffs, which would deepen the recession even further.

Jesus christ nostradamus lol
 
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