JesseEwiak
Member
Yglesias is great at monetary economics and macro stuff, but anything that involves unions and other liberal policy proposals, his libertarian-ish fetish for a future world of yoga instructors and unlicensed barbers comes through.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
- Status
Yglesias is great at monetary economics and macro stuff, but anything that involves unions and other liberal policy proposals, his libertarian-ish fetish for a future world of yoga instructors and unlicensed barbers comes through.
PhoenixDark
Banned
No one is denying Hillary had the skill, talent, and qualifications to be a US senator. The question is whether she would have become the senator of New York without being the wife of a president; does anyone think Charles Rangel and other NY democrats would have begged her to run in 2000 if that wasn't the case?. She wasn't the first carpetbagger with a popular last name to win a seat in New York (see: RFK).
I'm sure she could have potentially run in Arkansas based off her record even if she wasn't "Bill Clinton's wife." But running in other states with few ties is something few regular people manage to get away with. Lynn Cheney is taking heat right now for this, whereas Michelle Nunn isn't. The difference is that Nunn is an actual member of her state's community and has roots, whereas Lynn is swooping in based entirely on her name. I'm a Hillary fan but there's no question her senate run was a prelude to a presidential run - none of which would be possible if she wasn't Bill Clinton's wife. There's nothing wrong with admitting she had a high status position and benefited from it.
As a slight tangent, a lot of Hillary's Senate run (the push and the win) was based on the idea that it was a stepping stone to the Presidency. I'm not sure why so many otherwise faithful Democrats are so quick to forget the love she generated for herself within the party during Bill's term, but I assume it has to do with GOP message machine + her hawkishness re: Iraq.
Haha, this, don't forget foodtrucks!
I do like his urban land use / planning stances typically.
Aaron Strife
Banned
PPP in Georgia:
OFA has said explicitly they plan on helping Michelle Nunn, the first time they've said anything about a specific candidate.
This seat and Kentucky are very winnable. I'd be okay with trading West Virginia, South Dakota, and Montana for them.
Democrats' best bet would be if Broun won the nomination - he's in 2nd behind Gingrey.
OFA has said explicitly they plan on helping Michelle Nunn, the first time they've said anything about a specific candidate.
Politico said:
This seat and Kentucky are very winnable. I'd be okay with trading West Virginia, South Dakota, and Montana for them.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
True, but considering the limited choices on quality columnists, he's one of the better.
Yglesias just has a problem with, like, separating out the economic conclusions from the sensible human behavior ones. For example, he's probably correct that unions are kind of screwed, and that we really ought to transition to a system of protecting the value of labor with an income guarantee, but this is not what you might call a practical or immediate solution to the problems we currently face.
Holy shit, amazing.
jamesinclair
Banned
I agree with this post
I'm just picturing the conversation Reince would have with Jeff Zucker.
"Nice trainwreck we got here. Be a shame if it didn't happen..."
Black Mamba
Member
this is a gross misrepresentation. Let me give you the January 2009 vs July 2013 figures from the BLS:
january 2009
July 2013
That's an increase of 400k total of part-time workers for economic reasons.
Furthermore, the total non-economic part-timers were 18.9 million in Januaury 2009 vs 19.1 million now. So that's only an increase of 200k total in that timeframe or 600k total part-time workers for whatever reason.
How they "crunched" the numbers to get 1.9 million part-time jobs is beyond me. Looks more like 600k part-time jobs and 1.6 million full-time jobs.
But the GOP is great at presenting false math.
Aaron Strife
Banned
They got tired of coming up with ways to misrepresent the facts, so they just started straight up lying.
Black Mamba
Member
I really have no clue how they did it. At first I thought maybe it was a misrepresentation by looking at non-seasonally adjusted data but we've actually lost part-time jobs in that number. About 2 million in fact. And the 2.2 total jobs number seasonally adjusted is accurate so how they got that breakdown is confusing.
Usually the GOP intentionally misrepresents numbers and plays games and I can figure it out. With this one, I'm stumped. I can't see anywhere in the data how they created that breakdown without just making numbers out of thin air.
Here's another funny tidbit. Today, there are 27.3 million total part-time workers.
In January 2009 there were a total of 26.7 million total part-time workers
But Obama took office late in January 2009 and the GOP love to use January over February, the first real month he was actually in office because January was a really fucking bad month for the economy.
If you look at February 2009 the total part time workers were 27.5 million (800k increase in economic reasons all full-timers becoming part timers).
That means if you use February 2009, the first full month Obama was President, we've gained 2.5 million jobs of which 2.7 million are full-time and we lost 200k part-time jobs.
So yes, the GOP is full of complete shit.
edit: It should also be noted since January 2009, there's 3 million more private sector jobs. Since February 2009, about 3.7 more private sector jobs. The job losses are concentrated in gov't. 1.2 million less gov't jobs since jan/feb 2009.
cooljeanius
Member
Black Mamba
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaSTgK1XZc
And this is why the GOP is so fucked. This guy has co-sponsored numerous Obamacare repeals but the GOP is now so misinformed they think that the gov't shutdown would stop Obamacare when it does not.
And this is why the GOP is so fucked. This guy has co-sponsored numerous Obamacare repeals but the GOP is now so misinformed they think that the gov't shutdown would stop Obamacare when it does not.
Frank the Great
Banned
Dat SOPA thread . . .
The dumbest of the dumb.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm guessing they're going to push for record black and college turnout. But will Obama campaign for her, perhaps in Atlanta? Dunno if that's a good idea.
CharlieDigital
Banned
I didn't follow that whole thread. So what was the outcome of that discussion?
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Obummer is teh suxxors
Obama is a terrible president. Things people are afraid to say and get into actual discussion about because they know they will be promptly trounced due to their uninformed opinion.
PhoenixDark
Banned
PolitiFact? I thought we left that shitstain behind a long time ago.
Link
The Autumn Wind
I wonder how many elected Republican officials are thinking to themselves, "My god, these people are fucking stupid." Especially during these town hall meetings.
JesseEwiak
Member
I'm guessing they're going to use Obama's turnout machine, but not use Obama in person, maybe only phone calls/emails to specific groups (ie. African-Americans, urban liberals) so Nunn has a chance to win over conservaDems, especially if one of the real crazies win the primary.
Aaron Strife
Banned
This will probably serve as a test run for future campaigns using OFA's turnout machine without Obama, though an appearance in Atlanta might help.
Giant Panda
Member
Now I haven't seen that thread, so maybe they used some really stupid arguments to come to that conclusion, but the conclusion itself that Obama is a terrible president is sound in my opinion. The fact that he's better than what we could've ended up with doesn't change that fact. His civil liberties violations are inexcusable and his poor negotiations with Republicans have hurt the economy.
rocketknight
Member
Seriously, Obama. The Republicans are clearly ready to deal with you in good faith! Why won't you just strike a grand bargain already?
Maybe he means capitulating to them during the debt ceiling "crisis," leading to the sequester.
CNN?
el retorno
Member
"conservative values!!!!"
TheBahaBlast
Member
You almost had me till poor negotiations and terrible president. Republicans don't want to negotiate so that point is just dumb. And second, I'd say the civil liberties violations are more of a by product of the bullshit War on Terror and to have a President go against that would be difficult. Would love to end all this, but the corrupting power of D.C is strong.
And I'm not even just hand waving either, the Military Industrial Complex and spy agencies have gotten out of control that I think even politicians are scared to go up against them "because they know best, been doing things for years blah blah blah". I'd love to have a Presidential candidate with balls to go up against it and actually deliver on that promise while not being a nutbag candidate.
If we're taking a poll, I have one as well.
--//--
Out of the fear that politifact might be mistaken by the right as a partisan organization, they've chosen to do away with their integrity instead. They chose poorly.
Giant Panda
Member
Exactly. I believe the debt ceiling crisis and sequester significantly slow down the recovery. I was in no way saying he should've negotiated with Republicans.
That sounds about right.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't think it's unfair to believe Obama is a poor negotiator or could be doing better with republicans, even the House. One could also argue a lot of this stuff is more politics than substance. I generally assume the White House isn't full of dummies. For instance they know most corporations' and republicans' rhetoric on tax rates is bullshit: corporations use loopholes to pay significantly less in taxes, and some manage to completely dodge taxes. Ending those loopholes would effectively raise their taxes, even if the official rates are lowered. But the point of this bargain isn't for it to be signed into law, it's so democrats can campaign against a do-nothing Congress that "disagrees with everything Obama says, even if it's a republican idea."
A similar game they've played is the idea of funding bipartisan infrastructure by ending tax breaks for oil companies. A popular idea with voters, it's sensible...but at the end of the day is a political game with 0 chance of passing.
The economy is literally being starved to death by this stuff. I'm not playing the "both sides are equally bad" card here because clearly they aren't - only one side is purposely attempting to wreck the economy, but I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that more could be done. As I've mentioned before, neither side is discussing small business relief right now outside of ridiculous tax cuts or tax credits. Given how the last month has played out in the senate, I see no reason Obama couldn't come to some general tax cut compromise for small businesses. Or a plan to revamp unemployment benefits that focuses on job training/community college support.
A similar game they've played is the idea of funding bipartisan infrastructure by ending tax breaks for oil companies. A popular idea with voters, it's sensible...but at the end of the day is a political game with 0 chance of passing.
The economy is literally being starved to death by this stuff. I'm not playing the "both sides are equally bad" card here because clearly they aren't - only one side is purposely attempting to wreck the economy, but I think there's a legitimate argument to be made that more could be done. As I've mentioned before, neither side is discussing small business relief right now outside of ridiculous tax cuts or tax credits. Given how the last month has played out in the senate, I see no reason Obama couldn't come to some general tax cut compromise for small businesses. Or a plan to revamp unemployment benefits that focuses on job training/community college support.
I wonder if Hillary will adopt it... I have a feeling she'll go back to some of her own friends and we all know how that made her look in the primaries...
It's Reddit. Using Reddit for any serious discussion in politics is like hitting your head against a wall. You're going to be drown out by people who just read the headline and then think they know everything.
Reddit is the definition of a hivemind that borderlines on a vigilante mob.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
10 years ago, when I was a naive high schooler I was pretty libertarian and decided to go to a local republican meeting to see what it was like. There was a middle aged "conservative values" lady there, and I don't think there is a single thing more annoying type of person in the whole world.
Its not enough that say such a meaningless phrase in what should ideally be an intellectual environment, but she has to do it in the most condescending way possible. As if the very act of being conservative requires a genius epiphany. And that God himself will find anyone with "conservative values" a saint, and anyone who disagrees the devil itself. The worst part is all "conservative values" means is undying faith in whatever the current republican line is even if it means cutting spending and raising military budgets in the same damn line, or in this case trying to stop a bill that tries to make healthcare available and affordable. And the other worst part is she's greeted with cheers for it, encouraging the behavior.
That phrase, spoken that way, just strikes me so deep into my core with raging annoyance. Pet peeve doesn't begin to describe it.
I obviously never went back for my health and her safety. I even had grand plans of rising to political power as a libertarian in republican clothing but having to do it through those types of people would have driven me insane. I don't know how those other politicians can handle it.
Oh, I know. But this is part of the problem with the knee-jerk reactions in the OT. You post "Fuck Obama, I voted for a monster" in this thread and you get upvoted to the top comment.
There are plenty of things about the president to criticize, but we've created such an echo chamber of doing so that we no longer can have legitimate discussions.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Makes me wish Dragona was still a mod.
I thought this was funny. Rand Paul is so goddamn full of himself.
Rand Paul: "There Is No Greater Defender, Truly, of Minority Rights... Than Myself."
I can get defending yourself against attacks like this, but really? Really?
Rand Paul: "There Is No Greater Defender, Truly, of Minority Rights... Than Myself."
I can get defending yourself against attacks like this, but really? Really?
- Status