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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
So here's how some "people" are reacting to Putin's op-ed:

El Rushbo said:
Here is Putin's reference to it in his op-ed in the New York Times today. "I appreciate this. I carefully studied [Obama's] address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States' policy is 'what makes America different. It's what makes us exceptional.' It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation." Of course he would say that. He's a communist! He has always been a communist. The White House doesn't disagree with much of this, I'm sure. The American left doesn't disagree with much of what Putin said. In fact, the White House is happily accepting that Putin wrote this.
Click to expand...

Peggy Nooners said:
The irony of course is that Mr. Putin used the exceptionalism argument against Mr. Obama, who himself barely believes in the idea and no doubt threw it into his speech the way he often throws things like that in at the end: He thinks Americans like it, that the nationalist ego of the clingers demands it. But he doesn't mean it. Asked about American exceptionalism once, he said sure he believes in it, just as the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism. Thank you for that rousing historical endorsement.
Click to expand...

Basically it's okay that Putin hates America because Obama does too.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
B-Dubs said:
Yup. John Kerry really pulled a Mr Magoo on this one. Yet, somehow, there are people who see all this as a bad thing. We walk ass-backwards into a diplomatic solution and yet people still complain.
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I wonder what would have happened if we demanded Russia for this agreement instead of incompetently falling into it. Would Russia had agreed to it if it didn't look like they were the leaders on it?

I absolutely do not believe in the 11 dimensional chess theory that the question and response was planted and scripted, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did not seek an agreement knowing that doing exactly that would decrease the chance of an agreement more than just doing nothing at all, which lead to that statement and eventually slipping into an agreement.

Either way, that reporter deserves a hell of a lot of credit for asking that question.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
thepotatoman said:
I wonder what would have happened if we demanded Russia for this agreement instead of incompetently falling into it. Would Russia had agreed to it if it didn't look like they were the leaders on it?

I absolutely do not believe in the 11 dimensional chess theory that the question and response was planted and scripted, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did not seek an agreement knowing that doing exactly that would decrease the chance of an agreement more than just doing nothing at all, which lead to that statement and eventually slipping into an agreement.

Either way, that reporter deserves a hell of a lot of credit for asking that question.
Click to expand...

Normally I'd be with you, but the speed with which this whole thing came together leads me to believe that this was probably tossed around between the two countries behind closed doors since Obama announced the strikes. Russia probably wouldn't have gone along with it if it had seemed like their idea. It could very well be that this whole thing was a huge accident, but that's a hard sell. They were probably trying to figure out how to sell it when Kerry pulled his best Magoo and everything just fell into place.
 
D

Diablos

Member
RustyNails said:
This is why I am completely disillusioned by politics...and have posted increasingly less and less. American electorate is just too dumb. I am sorry but it is the truth. Unless that changes we will keep electing dingbats and screwing ourselves over.
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Indeed. I can just see it now: In 2016/2020/2024/whatever GOPers get elected to majority status in the WH, House & Senate. They repeal Obamacare. All of the sudden people who were excited about the exchanges or protections outlined in the law benefiting them at some point say "wait, Obama did that? Really? Duhhhrrr"

You can harp on Obama/Dems for not bragging more about the law. But it's kind of hard to go up against an entire empire of corporations and media conglomerates who vomit propaganda in spades, faster than the President -- who also has a lot of other things on his plate and can't just sit around toying with some Obamacare response team 24/7 -- ever could.

I just look at what conservative politics/policies have done to the working poor, some of whom I met with today, and how it has essentially forced them to lead a life a desperation and not even recognizing that the political tent they file into is the same one that is mostly responsible for the various reasons why their lives are in such disarray. It is the kind of stuff that makes you lose faith in humanity.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Diablos said:
Indeed. I can just see it now: In 2016/2020/2024/whatever GOPers get elected to majority status in the WH, House & Senate. They repeal Obamacare. All of the sudden people who were excited about the exchanges or protections outlined in the law benefiting them at some point say "wait, Obama did that? Really? Duhhhrrr"

You can harp on Obama/Dems for not bragging more about the law. But it's kind of hard to go up against an entire empire of corporations and media conglomerates who vomit propaganda in spades, faster than the President -- who also has a lot of other things on his plate and can't just sit around toying with some Obamacare response team 24/7 -- ever could.

I just look at what conservative politics/policies have done to the working poor, some of whom I met with today, and how it has essentially forced them to lead a life a desperation and not even recognizing that the political tent they file into is the same one that is mostly responsible for the various reasons why their lives are in such disarray. It is the kind of stuff that makes you lose faith in humanity.
Click to expand...

How about you wait until the election before getting depressed. Approval ratings like this jump around all the time. There's no reason to give up just based on this one poll.

Democrats have handedly won 3 out of the last 4 election seasons, and I don't think the minorities and the younger demographics will forget being screwed over so hard and who did the screwing, and both those demographics will only grow.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
Know what's fun? When you respond to a person's claim that the ACA is responsible for the significant increase in part time employment (that there is a huge increase is debatable) by linking multiple economists and studies from the chief economist of Moody's analytics, Goldman Sachs, Jared Bernstein and Paul Van de Water, and more that show the ACA isn't responsible and they link the following:

Over the last six months, of the net job creation, 97 percent of that is part-time work,” said Keith Hall, a senior researcher at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center. “That is really remarkable.”

Hall is no ordinary academic. He ran the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the agency that puts out the monthly jobs report, from 2008 to 2012. Over the past six months, he said, the Household Survey shows 963,000 more people reporting that they were employed, and 936,000 of them reported they’re in part-time jobs.
...
Hall speculated that the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, shorthanded as Obamacare, might be resulting in employers shifting workers to part-time status to avoid coming health care obligations.

“There’s been so much talk about the effects of Obamacare on part-time work,” he said. “This is such an unusual thing to see.”
Click to expand...

And the person just claims that the others are dead wrong. Even though the huge uptick took place after the sequestration began, it's all the ACA. Even though the law that is being blamed for employers dropping employees down to part time status was on the books before the ACA, it's the ACA that is at fault.

Ugh.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Oblivion said:
So here's how some "people" are reacting to Putin's op-ed:





Basically it's okay that Putin hates America because Obama does too.
Click to expand...

This is why the far-right and conservatives fucking disgust me. Just—what the hell is wrong with these people?They’re praising the Russian president while attacking our own. Not because of anything Putin said in his op-ed. Because let’s be real — that thing was a pile of propagandized garbage. The hypocrisy within the entire thing was at best a sick joke, and anyone who took it seriously should be ashamed for allowing themselves to be played like fools.

But they’re praising him simply because the letter was an attempt at a “slap to the face” of President Obama.

The letter more or less mocked Americans as “nothing special.” And I’m not saying we are, but Republicans sure as hell think we are.

“We’re American dammit, the best country on earth!” ”Love it or leave it!” Isn’t that what they say?

But because Putin’s op-ed was meant to take a shot at President Obama over Syria, many Republicans loved it.

Just think about that for a moment. The Russian president wrote a letter that mocked Americans and blatantly insulted the President of the United States–yet Republicans praised him for it.

“Proud, patriotic Republicans” taking the side of a Russian president mocking the United States and Obama.

I'm sorry, but this is past the point of "Just politics" for me. The hatred these clowns have for Obama is personal and fueled by latent racism.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
TacticalFox88 said:
This is why the far-right and conservatives fucking disgust me. Just—what the hell is wrong with these people?They’re praising the Russian president while attacking our own. Not because of anything Putin said in his op-ed. Because let’s be real — that thing was a pile of propagandized garbage. The hypocrisy within the entire thing was at best a sick joke, and anyone who took it seriously should be ashamed for allowing themselves to be played like fools.

But they’re praising him simply because the letter was an attempt at a “slap to the face” of President Obama.

The letter more or less mocked Americans as “nothing special.” And I’m not saying we are, but Republicans sure as hell think we are.

“We’re American dammit, the best country on earth!” ”Love it or leave it!” Isn’t that what they say?

But because Putin’s op-ed was meant to take a shot at President Obama over Syria, many Republicans loved it.

Just think about that for a moment. The Russian president wrote a letter that mocked Americans and blatantly insulted the President of the United States–yet Republicans praised him for it.

“Proud, patriotic Republicans” taking the side of a Russian president mocking the United States and Obama.

I'm sorry, but this is past the point of "Just politics" for me. The hatred these clowns have for Obama is personal and fueled by latent racism.
Click to expand...
Its not always racism. They did this stuff during Clinton. Its cultural/political hatred.

They think liberals actively hate America and are trying to destroy something they love. To be fair there is also many on the far left who actively think every right wing politician does everything out of pure greed and malice.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
TacticalFox88 said:
Because let’s be real — that thing was a pile of propagandized garbage. The hypocrisy within the entire thing was at best a sick joke, and anyone who took it seriously should be ashamed for allowing themselves to be played like fools.
Click to expand...

Just curious, but do you apply this kind of critical thinking to foreign policy speeches given by Barack Obama? Do you write them off as hypocritical propaganda that only fools could believe?
 
TheLaughingStock

TheLaughingStock

Member
Black Mamba said:
I get loyalty being his original intention and that's fine, but once it became known it was a bad choice, i don't understand his calculation here. Why is his loyalty to him this strong? Does he blow him on long days at the office? What's going on?
Click to expand...

His calculations didn't make sense when Larry was first hired to solve a crisis he helped create. Why waste your time?
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Samarecarm said:
For what it's worth, I was a pretty hardcore Republican during the Bush years, but the complete flip-flop from today's right into rooting against America (on foreign policy and government shutdowns) is completely ridiculous and basically forced me to vote Democrat.

If Dems had been praised an editorial from a foreign leader criticizing Bush, conservative bloggers would have been flipping their wig (and rightfully so).
Click to expand...

I always detested when the left's criticisms of Bush moved into impeaching his motives.

empty vessel said:
Just curious, but do you apply this kind of critical thinking to foreign policy speeches given by Barack Obama? Do you write them off as hypocritical propaganda that only fools could believe?
Click to expand...

This is a false comparison.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
empty vessel said:
Just curious, but do you apply this kind of critical thinking to foreign policy speeches given by Barack Obama? Do you write them off as hypocritical propaganda that only fools could believe?
Click to expand...

In some sense, yes. I don't believe in American Exceptionalism at all, and Obama's Foreign Policy speeches just spew subtle, sometimes not so subtle, American dick waving, which annoys me.
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
I dunno man, we avoided taking military action that would seem questionable and unpopular. I don't understand how that makes the US or Obama administration weak. Or why all of a sudden Putin is commendable or a man of action which is obviously the PR that he makes for himself.
 
S

Samk

Member
ClassyPenguin said:
I dunno man, we avoided taking military action that would seem questionable and unpopular. I don't understand how that makes the US or Obama administration weak. Or why all of a sudden Putin is commendable or a man of action which is obviously the PR that he makes for himself.
Click to expand...

Yeah the fact that this is anything but beautiful statesmanship in the media shows how broken it is. We may be avoiding a war, strengthening relations with Russia, and disarming Assad, all without firing a shot. Liberals everywhere rejoice.

Syrian war notwithstanding, of course.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
The media is mad that they have no conflict to cover and the GOP is mad that they don't have an unpopular action to run against in 2014.

Many of the same people who were criticizing military action are now against diplomacy. Ridiculous..
 
K

KingK

Member
Cloudy said:
The media is mad that they have no conflict to cover and the GOP is mad that they don't have an unpopular action to run against in 2014.

Many of the same people who were criticizing military action are now against diplomacy. Ridiculous..
Click to expand...

Yeah it's pretty silly. Everyone was mad as hell about the suggestion of military force, and now a lot of those same people are mad as hell that we look "weak" for reaching a diplomatic solution...

Honestly, I wasn't sure where I stood on strikes but leaned pretty strongly against them, and I was pretty perplexed about Kerry's heavy chest thumping followed by long delays on potential strikes. In hindsight though, it seems obvious that, while I think Obama would have gone through with the strikes in the end if nothing happened, one of the administration's goals was to use the threat of strikes and the time congress spent debating it as leverage to get Russia to act and allow diplomatic action in the UN.
 
T

Tim-E

Member
B-Dubs said:
Hey dude, welcome back.
Click to expand...

Thanks. My self-imposed ban didn't quite work as well as I had planned. Though I approached my negotiations with the mods in Geneva with the intent to request a perma-ban, we were able to find middle ground and settle with a six month resolution.
 
A

AntoneM

Member
Quick view on ASU.

- We are not "there" yet. Sutton was taken out of game through double teams. He still got pressure which allowed other players to step up and make some plays, but, it looks like against really big OL's ASU just doesn't have it yet.
- Taylor Kelly had a decent day, but no TD's and some sloppy throws. Our receivers must have dropped about 5 balls right on their hands.
- Special teams was terrible. Poor punting, pour kick/punt return coverage, and we should have stopped the fake punt.

I'll take the win, even on a blown call, as there were blown calls all game.

8-4 or 9-3 this year.
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
AntoneM said:
Quick view on ASU.

- We are not "there" yet. Sutton was taken out of game through double teams. He still got pressure which allowed other players to step up and make some plays, but, it looks like against really big OL's ASU just doesn't have it yet.
- Taylor Kelly had a decent day, but no TD's and some sloppy throws. Our receivers must have dropped about 5 balls right on their hands.
- Special teams was terrible. Poor punting, pour kick/punt return coverage, and we should have stopped the fake punt.

I'll take the win, even on a blown call, as there were blown calls all game.

8-4 or 9-5 this year.
Click to expand...

Wrong thread.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
So we avoided getting involved in Syria while getting rid of Assad's chemical weapons, we find California is probably going to increase minimum wage to 10 dollars, and Bill de Blasio wins the Democratic primary for New York mayor.

I'd call this a pretty darn good week in politics across the nation. Unfortunately where I live got the worst of it this week, with the colorado recall elections and a likelihood of republicans finally taking over our state senate.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Quick question. At the moment, Russia is going along with what Obama wants, right? So how is Obama "losing" again?


Tim-E said:
Thanks. My self-imposed ban didn't quite work as well as I had planned. Though I approached my negotiations with the mods in Geneva with the intent to request a perma-ban, we were able to find middle ground and settle with a six month resolution.
Click to expand...

They always come back.

Good to see you again, g.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Obama's being saved from himself a lot.
Oblivion said:
Quick question. At the moment, Russia is going along with what Obama wants, right? So how is Obama "losing" again?
Click to expand...

#weakness

I don't understand it either, I think its part of the macho narrative that drives foreign affairs. Changing your mind or changing course when events change is weakness and being stubborn is strength even when you invade the wrong country.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Oblivion said:
Quick question. At the moment, Russia is going along with what Obama wants, right? So how is Obama "losing" again?




They always come back.

Good to see you again, g.
Click to expand...

Because apparently Obama REALLY wants to invade Syria and depose Assad, and this is just letting Russia win.

It's really weird logic that always involves Obama losing no matter the outcome.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Cyan said:
Link?
Click to expand...

Just tweets right now. Literally just broke but its on WSJ's home page no real article though

Edit: called the president this morning.

There was gonna be a BIG push back starting this week from women and liberal groups, National Journal also had a brutal piece. Probably thought best to not take the heat too much, gotta protect his speaking engagements.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Also saw a bunch of reports about US-Iran relations on the mend, with obama possibly meeting the new president at the UN.

They really seem to want to mend things.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Redskins got bent over, my fantasy team was annihilated, and i thought all was lost in this world until i opened up twitter and saw the news: summers out. The sun is shining again, friends. Birds are singing, etc, all that shit.
 
D

Diablos

Member
I wish Obama would get off his high horse about Russia and not having the same 'values' as we do blah blah. Please stop, Mr. President.
 
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