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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Just curious if my representative, Justin Amash, could say something during Cruz' speech. He's in the audience I know.

I wish more Democrats would show up to challenge Cruz though, it was great when Durbin and Kaine were in there.

Cruz isn't doing anything but eating up his party's allotted time to speak. He literally can't filibuster. He has 15 hours to speak, the 15 hours granted to his entire party under the rules of this sort of vote, that is it. The GOP would get those 15 hours with or without him speaking. He doesn't need to be challenged because he isn't doing anything but grandstanding and playing to his base. All he is accomplishing is pissing off his colleagues by not allowing them time to speak.

TLDR: This isn't a filibuster, he's not allowed to filibuster as per senate rules in this situation.
 
Got it. Thanks!!!

Sorry I meant to add this link but posted it too fast. Really, they shouldn't be linked to. They aren't fact checkers.

McAuliffe’s ad says Cuccinelli introduced legislation in 2008 that would have made it more difficult for mothers to obtain divorces.

Cuccinelli’s unsuccessful bill would have eliminated the ability for a spouse in a couple with minor children to unilaterally file for a no-fault divorce. The legislation would have allowed the other spouse to block the process by filing a written objection.

No doubt, the bill would have it harder for moms to obtain divorces. But McAuliffe, in trying to portray it as an attack on women, omits that the legislation would have made it equally more difficult for dads to get divorces.

So McAuliffe’s claim contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give voters a different impression. We rate it Mostly False.
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...ffe-says-cuccinelli-tried-make-it-harder-mom/

They also consider 40% a majority.
 
Wait, he actually did that? Dave Weigel said that he quoted The Little Engine That Could, but I was pretty sure that was a joke...

http://www.businessinsider.com/video-ted-cruz-reads-green-eggs-and-ham-defund-obamacare-2013-9


Also, it was hilarious to see him argue that the amendment to strip defunding should be subject to a 60 vote threshold because Obamacare deserves that vote and then complaining in a few sentences later that Obamacare was rammed through brute force years ago.

So he says America deserves a 60 vote threshold before acknowledging we had that very same thing happen just a few years ago.

Like I said, he's a snake oil man.



edit: Cuccinelli is one of the most digusting politicians running for major office I've seen in a while. How the fuck is he the party's nominee? This guy is a misogynist bigot.
 
Pres. Obama Talks About Health Care Law at Clinton Initiative

President Obama joins with former President Bill Clinton in a conversation about the benefits of the Affordable Care Act. The law takes effect on Tuesday, October 1, with the rollout of state-run health insurance exchanges.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton introduces the former and current presidents. As First Lady, Hillary Clinton oversaw the Clinton administration's failed effort to reform the U.S. health care system.
video http://www.c-span.org/Events/Pres-O...Care-Law-at-Clinton-Initiative/10737441674-1/
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Fox News Sunday host Wallace clearly thought he was coming on F&F to talk exclusively about Sen. Ted Cruz and the coming showdown over defunding Obamacare and potential government shutdown; but Carlson wanted to hear his thoughts on Obama saying “we have overcome far darker threats” than the GOP attempts to defund the healthcare law.

“That is the race card being played,” Carlson explained. “Can you see any other explanation for it?” he asked the FNS host.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/check-ou...etween-foxs-chris-wallace-and-tucker-carlson/

What the hell is this idiot talking about? Contextually it makes no sense. If Obama's talking to the CBC, and uses the term "darker threats", this is somehow a code word for...White people? The hell?
 
"If you go to the 1940s, Nazi Germany," Cruz said. "Look, we saw in Britain, Neville Chamberlain, who told the British people, 'Accept the Nazis. Yes, they'll dominate the continent of Europe but that's not our problem. Let's appease them. Why? Because it can't be done. We can't possibly stand against them.'"

"And in America there were voices that listened to that," he continued. "I suspect those same pundits who say it can't be done, if it had been in the 1940s we would have been listening to them. Then they would have made television. They would have gotten beyond carrier pigeons and beyond letters and they would have been on tv and they would have been saying, 'You cannot defeat the Germans.'"

So Cruz went Godwin. He's covering every dumb base, isn't he?
 
Sorry I meant to add this link but posted it too fast. Really, they shouldn't be linked to. They aren't fact checkers.


http://www.politifact.com/virginia/...ffe-says-cuccinelli-tried-make-it-harder-mom/

They also consider 40% a majority.
I think I've seen that one before, but still, holy shit.

Like explaining to certain people how provisions of a broad law affect them specifically means you're lying? Come the fuck on.

Politifact does nothing more than cover idiot Republicans' asses.
 
He didn't just compare Obama to Hitler, he compared the Republican pundits who don't support him to fascist propagandists! It's really like they can't even tell who's on their side any more.

This whole thing has been hilariously fascinating. Cruz demands for months that Boehner pass a CR that defunds Obamacare and now that he got it he is pretending to filibuster it while demanding the GOP filibuster it.

Boehner's been stuck between a rock and a hard place but he's still capable of outsmarting a schmuck when need be.

The bill is going to come back to the House and it will be passed cleanly mainly with dem support and instead of the House getting quite embarrassed, it will fall on Cruz now. hah.
 
This whole thing has been hilariously fascinating. Cruz demands for months that Boehner pass a CR that defunds Obamacare and now that he got it he is pretending to filibuster it while demanding the GOP filibuster it.

Boehner's been stuck between a rock and a hard place but he's still capable of outsmarting a schmuck when need be.

The bill is going to come back to the House and it will be passed cleanly mainly with dem support and instead of the House getting quite embarrassed, it will fall on Cruz now. hah.
Cruz will just blame the establishment and gin up support among the teabagger base. No way he doesn't get an assist from Republicans in the House like Bachmann, King, or Gohmert either.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
This is why we should have had a national exchange. Still....

Obamacare Premiums Report Shows Low Prices For Uninsured With Wide Variation

The average price for basic health coverage purchased on health insurance exchanges created by President Barack Obama's health care reform law will be $249 a month, not counting subsidies, in 48 states reviewed by the Department of Health and Human Services, according to a government report published Wednesday.

The health insurance exchanges, marketplaces for uninsured people and consumers who don't get health benefits from their employers, are scheduled to launch on Oct. 1 for an enrollment period that runs through the end of March for 2014 coverage. This latest analysis of what the health insurance plans will cost comes just six days before people will be able to find out what they'll actually pay.

"For millions of Americans, these new options will finally make health insurance work within their budget," Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said during a conference call with reporters Tuesday. Reporters were provided access to the report prior to its publication.

The figures released by the Department of Health and Human Services represent averages and prices will vary widely by geographic location as well as family size, age, tobacco use and income. Even the average price of a so-called bronze plan, designed to cover 60 percent of medical expenses not counting monthly premiums, masks big variation. The average price of the cheapest bronze plan in Minnesota is $144 while in Wyoming, comparable coverage costs $425 on average, not including subsides.

For people who currently are uninsured and who qualify for financial assistance or enrollment in Medicaid, the federal-state health program for the poor, the average prices look to be low: 56 percent of uninsured will be able to get coverage for less than $100 a month per person, Gary Cohen, director of the Center for Consumer Information and Insurance Oversight, said during the conference call.

The report cited examples of families and individuals who could qualify for subsidized coverage that would greatly reduce its cost, and Cohen said some low-income people will even be able to obtain a bronze plan with no monthly premium because of the subsidies.

A 27-year-old in Dallas who earns $25,000 a year will be able to purchase a bronze plan for $74 a month, including federal tax credits to discount the price. A family of four in Dallas with a $50,000 household income could choose a bronze plan for as little as $26 a month, including the subsidies. A family of four earning $50,000 a year purchasing the least expensive bronze plan would pay $36 a month in Charlotte, N.C., $32 a month in St. Louis and $24 a month in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., including subsidies.
Good luck with that "boycott Obamacare" movement, Republicans.
 

pigeon

Banned
Boehner's already moving on to the debt ceiling:

politico said:
Boehner and his leadership team have been preparing options to present to House Republicans when they return on Wednesday from a brief recess. The process, leadership aides say, will be driven by members of the House Republican Conference....
Several different tactics are under discussion within the top levels of House GOP leadership, and the path Republicans choose depends on several factors — chiefly the mood of rank-and-file Republicans when they return to Washington, and when the House gets the continuing resolution back from the Senate.
For example, if there isn’t time to send a funding bill back to the Senate without shutting down the government, House Republicans might simply pass the Senate’s version of the legislation and reserve their attacks on Obamacare for future pieces of legislation like a debt ceiling increase. House Republicans begin their quest to lift the debt limit this week, with a similar delay of the health care law attached. This comes after the House passed a CR completely defunding Obamacare....
In a bid to help House Republicans respond to the Democratic Senate, some GOP senators have been discussing accelerating the consideration of the CR so the House has more time to weigh legislative options to keep the government open. This would fly in the face of some conservative senators who want to drag out the process....
Much of the House Republican leadership privately says they would prefer to pass a “clean” CR and avoid a shutdown. Boehner will need Democrats to push such a bill over the finish line. House Democrats have their own strategy session with White House chief of staff Denis McDonough on Wednesday at 7 p.m....
The voting will start Wednesday in the Senate, the same day the House returns to Washington to rejoin the funding fray. The House’s week is somewhat choreographed at this point. They will vote Wednesday evening and Thursday on bills unrelated to the government shutdown.
On Friday or Saturday, the House will move ahead with a bill to hike the debt ceiling, with a smattering of other favored conservative policies that will ride alongside. A one-year delay of the entirety of Obamacare will be attached to a one-year hike of the debt ceiling, as will language to jump-start construction of the Keystone XL pipeline and instructions for Congress to rewrite the Tax Code. This isn’t a particularly easy vote for House Republicans, given how loath many are to raise the debt ceiling no matter what is attached.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/house-gop-obamacare-cr-97299.html?hp=t1_3

Highlighted the hilarious bits.

In other words, there's still a strong chance that the GOP will fail to pass a debt ceiling increase TIED TO DELAYING OBAMACARE. If that happens Boehner's really in the shit.
 

East Lake

Member
Tonight folks is when we separate the real repubs from the RINOs.

Ted: Duck Dynasty a glimmer of hope in a depressed America.

He's reading quotes now.
 

Jooney

Member
Just watching the Obama - Clinton interview @ CGI and Obama just said that the cost of the ACA over ten years is about the same amount as the cost of the Prescription Drug Benefit (Medicare Part D) which of course hasn't been paid for.

If this is true, then can someone remind me which party is the party of fiscal responsibility again?
 
President Obama, President Clinton, and Senator Ted Cruz all spent a lot of time talking about Obamacare on Tuesday. But the real news came just as the day was ending, right at midnight, when the Department of Health and Human Services released data on insurance premiums available through the new Obamacare marketplaces.

Several states had already released their data. With this report, HHS provieded premium information for most of the rest. Overall, the numbers are pretty consistent with previous reports, albeit with some new and interesting wrinkles. It seems like mostly good news, though the law's critics would argue it vindicates some of their arguments, as well.

As many readers know, the price of insurance will vary from state to state, within states, and on the person making the purchase. Generally speaking, older people will pay more than younger people, although the law limits how much more insurers can charge. People with household income of less than four times the poverty line, or about $91,000 a year for a family of four and $46,000 for an individual, will be eligible for federal tax credits. Another variable is the type of plan: Silver plans, which would be expected to cover 70 percent of the typical person's medical expenses, will cost more than bronze plans, which would cover just 60 percent. (Gold, which covers 80 percent, and platinum, which covers 90, will cost more still.)

The HHS report spotlighted only silver and bronze plans, which are the ones people are most likely to buy. Based on a quick skim, the most expensive unsubsidized policies I saw were in Jackson, Mississippi, and Cheyenne, Wyoming. In those places, a family of four too wealthy for subsidies will pay more than $1200 a month for the second-cheapest silver plan. The least expensive were in Nashville, Tennessee, where the full "sticker price" of the second cheapest silver plan will be $559 a month.

There's a lot less variation for families whose incomes qualify them for those subsidies. And that's very much by design: The law effectively tries to dictate what people will pay for the second-cheapest silver plans, no matter where they live. For a family of four with income of $50,000, the cost for such a plan in almost every city and state is $282 a month. But because of the way the subsidies work, applying those subsidies to even cheaper plans, like bronze policies that cover only 60 percent of a typical person's expenses, can reduce premiums even more—and at varying levels, depending on location. In Phladelphia, Pennsylvania, that family of four making $50,000 a year could get the cheapest bronze plan for $96 a month. A simlar family living in the Virgina suburbs of Washington, D.C., could get one for nothing.

That’s right: With subsidies, a middle-class family of four in Fairfax County will be able to get a minimalist insurance policy for no premiums at all. (Weirdly, so will a similar family in Jackson, Mississippi, even though it's the same place where unbubsidized silver plans are so expensive.)

Earlier this year, release of similar numbers provoked intense debate over how these prices compare to what people pay now. It’s a difficult comparison to make, because the insurance product itself is changing: The benefits under Obamacare are more comprehensive and the policies are available to everybody, not just those who clear medical underwriting. But it’s safe to assume that there will be both “premium joy” and “premium shock”—some people will pay more than they do for insurance now, while others will pay less. Of course, those paying more will be getting better, more reliable insurance. Conversely, even those paying relatively low rates may decide it's more than they can afford. Julie Appleby of Kaiser Health News wrote about one woman in this situation on Tuesday.

Overall, according to HHS, the premium bids are lower than government actuaries had predicted when the law first passed. That’s good news for taxpayers, because it means the subsidies will be less expensive than budget projections had suggested. It’s also good news for the Obamacare enterprise as a whole. As somebody (I can’t remember who) said previously, these are real bets, from real insurers, that the insurance exchanges are going to work.

In fact, while several large commercial carriers have opted not to participate in the exchanges, the new system has brought in some new companies and, overall, the trend seems to be towards more competition—not less. The average consumer will have more than 50 plans from which to choose, according to HHS, and in nearly every state at least two carriers will be offering insurance. And all else equal, more competition translates to better prices. “People almost everywhere will have a choice of insurers, but the degree of competition has an effect on the premiums,” says Larry Levitt, a senior vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation who examined the numbers. “Where there are a lot insurers competing, premiums are generally lower. But where competition is scarce, in places such as Mississippi, premiums are coming in higher.”

Premiums don’t tell us everything we need to know about the insurance available on the marketplaces. The cheapest policies have seriously high out-of-pocket expenses—up to $6,350 for individuals and $12,700 for families. And while lower income people are eligible for extra assistance with such expenses, depending on which policies they buy, the cheapest policies may also have limited networks of physicians and hospitals. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. It depends entirely on what criteria plans use to select their providers, and whether people who need certain kinds of specialists can get them. In fact, a recent poll from Morning Consult suggested that the majority of people don’t mind losing some doctor choice if it holds down premiums. Then again, people may think differently when they face the choice for real—or when choosing the plan that costs least also means giving up the doctor they like or need most.

The full meaning of reports like these frequently becomes apparent only days after release, once experts have had more time to analyze them. If new and important details emerge, I'll update this item. But the report has already altered one of my own preconceptions. Based on previous reports, I had assumed that premiums would be lower in states where officials support Obamacare, because those officials had the will and the means to control health prices. That my not be the case, at least not entirely, as Levitt explains:

Some conservative, anti-Obamacare states have lower than average premiums and some pro-Obamacare states have higher than average premiums. The market matters here more than the politics, although in some cases states with more aggressive regulation have been able to push premiums lower. One surprise is Texas. That is a state that has put up roadblocks to implementation, but the premiums are coming in below average.

A surprise for sure—and a pleasant one.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114849/obamacare-insurance-premiums-beat-expectations-hhs-says

it'shappening.gif!


Most people using the marketplaces will have incomes low enough to qualify for a government subsidy. A recent administration report found that 56 percent of the roughly 41 million uninsured people eligible for the marketplaces could pay monthly premiums of $100 or less.
 
Who would have thought electing a Democratic governor and state legislature would result in progressive policies that help the middle class

I mean who would have fucking thought

Apparently not the midwestern swing states surrounding us who voted in GOP hacks and are surprised at their shitty economic situations such as Iowa (Dem State Senate), Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Missouri (Dem governor), Ohio, Pennsylvania
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Who would have thought electing a Democratic governor and state legislature would result in progressive policies that help the middle class

I mean who would have fucking thought

Apparently not the midwestern swing states surrounding us who voted in GOP hacks and are surprised at their shitty economic situations such as Iowa (Dem State Senate), Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Missouri (Dem governor), Ohio, Pennsylvania

As a native Iowan, it's genuinely sad what's happening in the Midwest thanks to 2010. I hope things swing back soon...
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member

Sounding good, but about this quote:

Some conservative, anti-Obamacare states have lower than average premiums and some pro-Obamacare states have higher than average premiums. The market matters here more than the politics, although in some cases states with more aggressive regulation have been able to push premiums lower. One surprise is Texas. That is a state that has put up roadblocks to implementation, but the premiums are coming in below average.

The issue with Republican sabotage was never about premiums as far as I know. They were mostly about medicaid expansion to give free health care to those that really can't afford the individual mandate even with subsidy, and letting citizens get the information they need to take full advantage of the exchanges.

I guess the rate of those insured will probably be a much better indicator of how much Republican sabotage actually affected the act's implementation.

Based on a quick skim, the most expensive unsubsidized policies I saw were in Jackson, Mississippi, and Cheyenne, Wyoming. In those places, a family of four too wealthy for subsidies will pay more than $1200 a month for the second-cheapest silver plan.

Man that alone is enough to trigger the Cadillac tax. Does the amount covered by subsidy count towards that? (Edit: never mind, forgot that tax threshold was different for individuals and families)
 
Sounding good, but about this quote:



The issue with Republican sabotage was never about premiums as far as I know. They were mostly about medicaid expansion to give free health care to those that really can't afford the individual mandate even with subsidy, and letting citizens get the information they need to take full advantage of the exchanges.

I guess the rate of those insured will probably be a much better indicator of how much Republican sabotage actually affected the act's implementation.

I believe the idea was that states that were pro-obamacare would have more regulation and price controls in place (in some fashion) which would benefit that against the states more deregulated. I thought this as well (and made such arguments in the past here). So yeah, it was a bit surprising.

Never thought that being against Obamacare would lead to higher prices but that generally would correlate with a different rulebook to begin with, so to speak.

Man that alone is enough to trigger the Cadillac tax. Does the amount covered by subsidy count towards that?

Not exactly sure what you're asking here. The above example was for those that don't qualify for subsidies but if they did qualify it would go into it.
 

kingkitty

Member
Glad the premiums are lower than expected, especially for Nashille where my aunt resides. But it's all a bit pointless once Cruz successfully dismantles Obamacare lol.

I wish we had Britain's parliamentary type house of Commons with boos, jeers and hisses.

Hey we got a "you lie!" a few years back.
 
I just know there's a killer reason you didn't post it yourself, other than being tied up calling people poopy heads? :p

Oh yeah. I've been spending most of the morning dealing with chest pain (seems a pill went down the wrong tube), and figuring out school stuff and other things so I can go home tomorrow to put down my childhood dog over the weekend. His liver is failing him – he has at most two weeks to live.

:*(
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Oh yeah. I've been spending most of the morning dealing with chest pain (seems a pill went down the wrong tube), and figuring out school stuff and other things so I can go home tomorrow to put down my childhood dog over the weekend. His liver is failing him – he has at most two weeks to live.

:*(

Damn, Dax there's a reason most people take pills with water.


How is Cruz still going, I thought he only had 15 hours? Did Reid make a deal or something?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Oh yeah. I've been spending most of the morning dealing with chest pain (seems a pill went down the wrong tube), and figuring out school stuff and other things so I can go home tomorrow to put down my childhood dog over the weekend. His liver is failing him – he has at most two weeks to live.

:*(

Okay you win. Sort of. :\
 
You missed out on all the fun during the Sotomayor confirmation when he accused her of racial bias!
The audacity of these people.

How is he on the judiciary committee after pretty much admitting he hates all civil rights cases and the NAACP are unamerican?

Edit: CNN cryon just blasted Obamacare lower than expected prices. Hope we see more of that.
 

KingK

Member
Who would have thought electing a Democratic governor and state legislature would result in progressive policies that help the middle class

I mean who would have fucking thought

Apparently not the midwestern swing states surrounding us who voted in GOP hacks and are surprised at their shitty economic situations such as Iowa (Dem State Senate), Michigan, Wisconsin, Indiana, Missouri (Dem governor), Ohio, Pennsylvania

Both parties are the same bro.

Excellent, Ghaleon. Thank you!

See, Black Mamba? That's being a responsible NeoGAF user, ya poopy head!

Also, here's Bernie Sanders vs. Graham Crackers.

I love Bernie Sanders. The dude just tells it how it is and doesn't tolerate bullshit. Best senator imo.
 
Again guys, it's worth noting that Boehner has specifically told K and Wall Street members that a default will not occur. He can add whatever he wants to the bill now, from an Obamacare delay to the pipeline greenlight, but by October 10th he'll be facing the reality that he has 7 days to pass something the senate will approve.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Again guys, it's worth noting that Boehner has specifically told K and Wall Street members that a default will not occur. He can add whatever he wants to the bill now, from an Obamacare delay to the pipeline greenlight, but by October 10th he'll be facing the reality that he has 7 days to pass something the senate will approve.

Yup. He and McConnell are marching to the same drummer there, which is why he's letting the bill go through to get amended at all. He knows delaying or blocking it will prevent a final vote in the House before the deadline, and he's not going to let that happen. It's all theater.
 
Haha WHAT

Cruz - a vote for cloture is a vote to fund ObamaCare; votes for cloture
Is this guy for real? The cloture vote was 100 to 0.

Republicans are jokes.

http://youtu.be/y42dEjKIrLk

Sen. Lindsey Graham: "If Obamacare succeeds, Hillary will be president."
But I thought Obamacare would destroy the nation. Certainly the American people would see that and punish the Democrats, not reward them with another term in the White House.

Speaking of luscious Lindsey, his approvals aren't too hot with GOP voters at home. Now South Carolina may not be purple yet like North Carolina is, but let's see if we can't get a decent Democratic candidate here just in case. Obama did better in SC than in Montana, Indiana, or North Dakota and only slightly worse in Missouri, all states with Democratic senators.

Both parties are the same bro.
Yeah, well I know Obama was talking about bombing Syria, so that just makes him Bush 2.0. Regardless of his wildly different positions on domestic issues as well as the fact that every Democrat isn't Obama.
 

Wilsongt

Member
But I thought Obamacare would destroy the nation. Certainly the American people would see that and punish the Democrats, not reward them with another term in the White House.

Speaking of luscious Lindsey, his approvals aren't too hot with GOP voters at home. Now South Carolina may not be purple yet like North Carolina is, but let's see if we can't get a decent Democratic candidate here just in case. Obama did better in SC than in Montana, Indiana, or North Dakota and only slightly worse in Missouri, all states with Democratic senators.


Yeah, well I know Obama was talking about bombing Syria, so that just makes him Bush 2.0. Regardless of his wildly different positions on domestic issues as well as the fact that every Democrat isn't Obama.

I doubt it. SC will lose it's only Democrat seat next year, I think, Clyburn is being challenged by a pastor who changed from a Democrat to a Republican last year. So.... Yeah.
 
I doubt it. SC will lose it's only Democrat seat next year, I think, Clyburn is being challenged by a pastor who changed from a Democrat to a Republican last year. So.... Yeah.
Obama won 70% of the vote in Clyburn's district.

He ain't losing shit.

Building the New South(tm):

PPP, North Carolina - Democrats tied or leading in 6 GOP-held Senate districts, trailing by only a few points in 2 others, with McCrory as always extremely unpopular. The Democrats need 9 pickups here to reclaim the chamber.

Not-Rasmussen, Virginia - Terry McAuliffe leading by 6, 44-38.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Haha WHAT

Is this guy for real? The cloture vote was 100 to 0.

13/09/24/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/25/senate-vote-shutdown-cr-obamacare/2868517/

Senate votes 100-0 to avoid Government Manufactured Meltdown of 2013, Cruz Edition®

Wait, Cruz voted for cloture? All his grandstanding over the past week has been about whipping people into voting against it. He just gave a 20+ hour speech about it. And then he votes for it? Maybe he was just really tired.
 

kehs

Banned
Wait, Cruz voted for cloture? All his grandstanding over the past week has been about whipping people into voting against it. He just gave a 20+ hour speech about it. And then he votes for it? Maybe he was just really tired.

As Obama and his supporters have proven, people only care about what you say you're gonna do, and not what you actually do.
 
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