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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
lol Avik Roy at it again: http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot...nsurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/

I like how he claims single 27 year old men have a median income of $60k.

I also like how he mentions how one must earn 59% of that median income or below to benefit, ignoring that nearly everyone who earns $60k has employer insurance.

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. This line caught my attention:

“Premiums nationwide will also be around 16 percent lower than originally expected,” HHS cheerfully announces in its press release. But that’s a ruse. HHS compared what the Congressional Budget Office projected rates might look like—in 2016—to its own findings. Neither of those numbers tells you the stat that really matters: how much rates will go up next year, under Obamacare, relative to this year, prior to the law taking effect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it important to point out that without the ACA, premiums were expected to go up anyway?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it important to point out that without the ACA, premiums were expected to go up anyway?

You are not wrong. Health insurance premiums have risen annually for years and have always been expected to rise. Hence the need for health care reform.

This is from 2009:

9VMzwVx.jpg
 

Jooney

Member
Hillary Clinton said:
“It’s like when you meet somebody at a party and they look over your shoulder to see who else is there, and you want to talk to them about something that’s really important; in fact, maybe you came to the party to talk to that particular person, and they just want to know what’s next. I feel like that’s our political process right now. I just don’t think it is good.”

nodding.gif
 

Nesotenso

Member
just a question here not about US politics but about the Westgate mall attacks. Have any of the attackers been caught ? What about the alleged US connection for some of them ?
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Wait wait wait Cruz voted with the Dems to bring the CR to a vote?
lololololololololol

Guess he forgot he said this, lack of sleep is a bitch :p
CNN said:
"Any senator who votes (to move forward with debate on the House measure) is voting to give Harry Reid the authority to fund Obamacare," Cruz told Bash on Monday.
 

Jooney

Member
Americans' Views on the President

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as President?
Approve: 43%
Disapprove: 49%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the economy?
Approve: 41%
Disapporve: 59%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?
Approve: 14%
Disapprove: 80%

More poll results at the link.

EDIT: The foreign policy ones are just sad:

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the situation in Syria?
Approve: 37%
Disapprove: 52%

AND

On the next fiscal deadline looming in Washington, for raising the federal debt ceiling, over half of Americans believe that doing so should be tied to government spending reductions.

Spectacular ju-jit-su on the debt ceiling messaging by the republicans.
 

Piecake

Member
Americans' Views on the President

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as President?
Approve: 43%
Disapprove: 49%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the economy?
Approve: 41%
Disapporve: 59%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?
Approve: 14%
Disapprove: 80%

More poll results at the link.

EDIT: The foreign policy ones are just sad:

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the situation in Syria?
Approve: 37%
Disapprove: 52%

AND



Spectacular ju-jit-su on the debt ceiling messaging by the republicans.

Wouldn't surprise me if over half of the population doesnt understand how our government works. Thats the only explanation that i have for those idiotic debt ceiling numbers
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Americans' Views on the President

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as President?
Approve: 43%
Disapprove: 49%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the economy?
Approve: 41%
Disapporve: 59%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?
Approve: 14%
Disapprove: 80%

More poll results at the link.

EDIT: The foreign policy ones are just sad:

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the situation in Syria?
Approve: 37%
Disapprove: 52%

AND



Spectacular ju-jit-su on the debt ceiling messaging by the republicans.
Good god what do people want?
 
I'm really concerned that the ACA will be used as an excuse to fuck over their employees and republicans will bring that shit up and say that's how Obamacare is killing jobs. What infuriates me about that is it almost seems like a moral failing at that point. It's like these zealots will use anything and everything to make themselves richer while making things worse for everyone else. Now they have an excuse to cut hours too. Fuck. Sometimes the people in this country scare the FUCK out of me.
 

pigeon

Banned
Americans' Views on the President

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling his job as President?
Approve: 43%
Disapprove: 49%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Barack Obama is handling the economy?
Approve: 41%
Disapporve: 59%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?
Approve: 14%
Disapprove: 80%

More poll results at the link.

* Fascinating that Obama has lousy individual approval ratings on basically every topic, but +19 on "leadership."
* Also pretty great that Congress has significantly worse approval ratings than either party in Congress individually.
* That's a terrifyingly bad "wrong track" number, pretty clearly driven by the economic issues after that -- most people think the economy isn't improving, which is accurate. Hello, sequester!
* Obama has a strong lead in trustworthiness over Republicans on nearly every issue -- except health care, about which more below.
* There's a serious constituency for slashing the defense budget.
* Pretty impressive that 60% of Americans are following the government shutdown/debt ceiling news. It looks like people are really, really concerned that a shutdown will screw them personally, which is an interesting development -- I guess people figured out that government affects their lives!
* I expect that either this will be the low-water mark for Obamacare approval, or two months from now will be. So these terrible numbers are par for the course -- this is absolutely the weakest moment for Obamacare in terms of politics. By early next year I'd expect to see the numbers start heading upwards. (Or at least I hope they will!)
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
These answers are weird.

How much do you think Barack Obama cares about the needs and problems of people like yourself?

A Lot 30%
Some 32%
Not much 16%
Not at all 21%

Do you think Barack Obama has strong qualities of leadership, or not?

58% has
39% not


Who do you trust more to make the right decisions about the nation's economy?

Republicans in Congress 33%

Barack Obama 47%

So the majority of people think he cares about them and is a strong leader but a significant portion of those who do also think that he's doing everything wrong?
 
On a work note, it sounds like we will end up accepting kids through the Medicaid expansion after all. Delta is going to be handling the expanded Medicaid coverage for children in the state, which is good news for providers. We don't accept straight up Medicaid due to how poorly they pay providers; for instance the cost of a small filling (without insurance) is $155, and Medicaid pays $10 of that. However we do accept Medicaid plans through Delta for children, and the provider rates are much better.

Wait wait wait Cruz voted with the Dems to bring the CR to a vote?
lololololololololol

Guess he forgot he said this, lack of sleep is a bitch :p

Actually:
But Wednesday's vote was on the motion to begin debating the spending bill. There will be another vote to close debate on the bill in the coming days. That's the one that Cruz said he wants Senate Republicans to oppose unless they get their way on defunding Obamacare.

That's why Cruz, Mike Lee (R-UT), Marco Rubio (R-FL) and others voted in favor of Wednesday's motion. But it seems that the procedural machinations weren't clear to some of their constituents.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/senate-gop-s-constituents-are-confused-about-obamacare-vote
 

GhaleonEB

Member

Last week he was talking about the motion to proceed, so as to block Reid from being able to swap out the defunding provision.

"I'll tell you, any vote for cloture, any vote to allow Harry Reid to add funding for Obamacare with just a 51-vote threshold," he said, "is a vote for Obamacare. And I think Senate Republicans are going to stand side by side with Speaker Boehner and House Republicans listening to the people and stopping this train wreck that is Obamacare."

In plain English, Reid can advance the House bill and strike the defund-Obamacare language in the end with a simple-majority vote. Cruz wants Republicans to withhold their votes for bringing up the bill until he promises a 60-vote threshold for amendments. The awkward part of this strategy is that it requires Republicans to filibuster the House's continuing resolution (CR). But that's their only way to keep up the fight.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ted...the-government-or-you-re-voting-for-obamacare

He pivoted to the motion to end debate when the Senate GOP pointed out the absurdity of filibustering the House bill before the change was made, in the past few days.
 
In an interview Wednesday shortly after his 21-hour talkathon to defund Obamacare had come to an end, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) lamented to shock jock Rush Limbaugh that too many lawmakers think their constituents are naive.

"They think their voters are gullible rubes," Cruz said in the radio interview.


Cruz has spent months assuring supporters that the defunding battle is one that conservatives can win, notwithstanding the unfathomable scenario of President Barack Obama signing a bill that guts his signature legislative achievement.

But the junior Texas senator told Limbaugh that he's been surprised and dismayed by the "defeatist attitude" in the Senate.

"I promise you, Rush, if you had to sit through one Senate lunch, you'd be in therapy," Cruz said.

Cruz also clarified remarks he made Sunday, when he told Fox News host Chris Wallace that a "vote for cloture is a vote for Obamacare." Following his talkathon, Cruz voted Wednesday for cloture on the continuing resolution that House Republicans passed last week.

But he told Limbaugh that isn't the vote that matters. Rather, the cloture vote to end debate that will likely be held either Friday or Saturday is the one on which Cruz will evaluate the anti-Obamacare credentials of his fellow Republicans. After debate ends, Senate Democrats will strip the continuing resolution of the defunding language.

"Any Republican, in my view, who votes for cloture, who votes with Harry Reid...is voting to fund Obamacare," Cruz said, adding later that he hopes the vote will be held Friday so that more people will pay attention.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewi...enators-think-their-voters-are-gullible-rubes

still making friends
 
well I guess my very first post on GAF goes here!
so who else here is from Texas, with that joke of a senator named Ted Cruz

PD you're slipping on the trolling front
 

Diablos

Member
These answers are weird.

So the majority of people think he cares about them and is a strong leader but a significant portion of those who do also think that he's doing everything wrong?
Yeah, I just noticed the same thing, it doesn't make any sense.

+1 to Bush Sr. for getting with the times.
 
Swapping COBRA For Obamacare Likely To Be Windfall For Big Business

Health-law provisions taking effect next year could save U.S. employers billions of dollars in expenses now paid for workers who continue medical coverage after they leave the company, benefits experts say.

Insurance marketplaces created by the Affordable Care Act are expected to all but replace COBRA coverage in which ex-employees and dependents can remain on the company plan if they pay the premiums.

“As soon as the law was passed, the question among employers and benefits people was: Is there still going to be a reason for COBRA?” said Steve Wojcik, vice president of public policy for the National Business Group on Health, an employer group. Offered a choice between heavily subsidized coverage in the health act’s insurance exchanges or paying full price under COBRA, he said, “most people are going to choose the exchange.”

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985, known as COBRA and intended to furnish coverage between jobs, is a burden for employers as well as participants.

Because company cost sharing usually ceases when workers depart, COBRA members pay premiums exceeding $5,000 per year for single-person coverage and more for families. But because it’s so expensive, only people who know they’ll use the insurance are likely to sign up.

That means participants are typically sicker than average and use half again as much in benefits as they pay in premiums, causing losses for large corporations that pay their own medical claims.

“Employers hate it because it involves people on the plan who are no longer associated with the employer,” said Paul Fronstin, director of health research at the Employee Benefit Research Institute. “And they cost more.”

Forty-one percent of large businesses recently surveyed by Wojcik’s group expect former employees eligible for COBRA to seek coverage next year on the exchanges instead. Analysts expect few ex-employees if any to choose COBRA once the online marketplaces, scheduled to open in October, become established in a few years.


Like most COBRA participants Jessica Stephens, a 29-year-old Chicagoan, pays the full cost of insurance sponsored by her former employer — $518 a month. Most employers include a 2 percent administrative fee.

Stephens, who now makes about $25,000 working as a cook at a restaurant that doesn’t offer insurance, says she took a part-time job to pay her COBRA bill. She’s likely to qualify for exchange tax credits that would allow her to buy a policy starting in January for less than $200 a month.

“That’s wonderful. I would definitely take the exchange” once it becomes available, she said. “I thought I could squeeze by financially doing COBRA, but the last nine months have told me that’s not possible.”


COBRA savings are a little-examined dividend for employers, many of whom have complained that the health law’s taxes and coverage expansion will hurt their profits and suppress hiring. Meanwhile insurers worry that ex-COBRA members will contribute to a sicker-than-average influx of exchange enrollees.

“I've been preaching for two years that large, self-funded employers were going to get a dramatic COBRA windfall from the act at the expense of the carriers who participate” in the health exchanges, said Michael Bertaut, senior economist at BlueCross BlueShield of Louisiana, which will sell plans on the Louisiana exchange.

The average COBRA member cost his former employer 54 percent more — $3,800 —than the average active worker, continuing a long-term trend, according to a 2009 survey by newsletter Spencer’s Benefits Reports. At one company in five, COBRA participants cost more than twice as much as active workers.

But COBRA members pay premiums based on the lower cost of active employees. (Because former employers usually don’t help with premiums, COBRA members pay far more than they did when employed. But they still don’t pay enough, on average, to cover the cost of their care.)

Besides the chance to stay on the company plan regardless of pre-existing illness, COBRA gives former workers a grace period to sign up —often after they’ve already sought care.

So a person who declines COBRA coverage because it’s too expensive as he was leaving a job can change his mind after he has an accident and racks up medical bills. That retroactive option, which lasts at least two months, raises the likelihood of high expenses.

Spencer’s, which discontinued the survey after 2009, estimated there were 4.8 million COBRA beneficiaries in 2008. Based on the Spencer’s figures, COBRA would have cost employers more than $10 billion that year.

The federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality estimated there were 2.6 million COBRA beneficiaries in 2011, the most recent year available.

Not all COBRA participants plan to switch to the ACA marketplaces. Many are unaware of the option. Even some who understand the advantages want to make sure the new products function as promised.

“I want to see it in black and white — exactly how this system works,” said Janaki Ram Ray, a Maryland retiree whose wife, 58, is on his former employer’s plan. “I’ll think twice about giving that up for an exchange plan to save $200 a month.”

But few doubt COBRA coverage will fade once ex-employees — often still unemployed and with limited income — understand their alternatives.

“If the employers know anything about their own experience, they’re going to be thrilled when these people go into the exchanges,” said Stephen Huth, a former Spencer’s editor, now retired, who managed the COBRA survey. “And when these former employees find out the [lower] cost, they’re going to be thrilled to go into them, too.”
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Sto...e=khn&utm_medium=internal&utm_campaign=viewed

I've been wondering about this for awhile. This should play into the future of Obamacare obstruction. Ending Obamacare now could be done with far fewer consequences than next year, when the program is (almost) fully implemented. Once individuals are firmly set with plans and (perhaps more importantly) once businesses start moving from COBRA it's going to be very hard to demand defunding or dismantling. Unless the law is just so poorly implemented and accepted that it has to be ended, which I'm doubting right now.
 
So with MMT and similar theories, does it make autarky or at least less freer markets more realistic in todays world? Because instead of focusing on making packs for people investing in your economy you can just have the state create large projects to inflate and destroy money in to the economy correct?

Nobody? :(
 

Diablos

Member
Democrats, Republicans, the White House, HHS, you name it are all coming out and saying a government shutdown would not prevent the law from being implemented anyway, and that even if the GOP could somehow defund it they could find other ways to do so in the meantime.

Also fuck COBRA, that shit is going to crash and burn once people get on the exchanges.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
The logistics of COBRA never made sense to me.

"Now that you're unemployed and without income, would you like to keep your insurance for $600/month?"
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
The logistics of COBRA never made sense to me.

"Now that you're unemployed and without income, would you like to keep your insurance for $600/month?"
Some people don't have a choice. A pregnant spouse for instance or a person with a pre existing condition that can't otherwise get coverage without an employer.
(These happened to me and my wife when we were laid off, coincidentally.) it was better to spend nearly all of our unemployment benefits on coverage than the risk to not do so. The birth alone would have bankrupted us.

It fucking sucked btw, I welcome the death of cobra if the exchanges with subsidies are the alternative.
 
Whilst waiting for my delayed train at 30th street station in Philly, I am sitting here lamenting the fact that we don't have a high speed rail system for the northeast corridor. And any attempt to bring up funding for one would immediately get shot down. *sigh*
 

Diablos

Member
Whilst waiting for my delayed train at 30th street station in Philly, I am sitting here lamenting the fact that we don't have a high speed rail system for the northeast corridor. And any attempt to bring up funding for one would immediately get shot down. *sigh*
You ready to vote for Allyson Schwartz next year? I sure am.
 

Tamanon

Banned
nope, want to post them?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/gop...mand-a-christmas-tree-of-conservative-goodies

The bill, obtained by the National Review, tacks on items including a one-year delay of Obamacare; tax reform in the image of Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI); approval of the Keystone pipeline; expanded offshore drilling and other pro-oil and coal energy reforms; increases in military spending coupled with deeper cuts to domestic programs; repealing a fund in the financial regulatory reform bill; means testing for Medicare; repealing the Obamacare prevention and public health fund and medical malpractice reform.
 
Yep. There were even a few representatives pushing to include more abortion restrictions!

I liked the Atlantic's line:

and once you get through them, you'll be surprised they didn't ask for free ice cream, a lifetime pass to Disneyland, and a bill to rename the capitol "The Reagan Dome."

One Year Debt Limit Increase

Not a dollar amount increase, but suspending the debt limit until the end of December 2014.

Similar to what we did earlier this year.

Want the year long to align with the year delay of Obamacare.

One Year Obamacare delay

Tax Reform Instructions

Similar to a bill we passed last fall, laying out broad from Ryan Budget principles for what tax reform should look like.

Gives fast track authority for tax reform legislation

Energy and regulatory reforms to promote economic growth

Includes pretty much every jobs bill we have passed this year and last Congress

All of these policies have important positive economic effects.

Energy provisions

Keystone Pipeline

Coal Ash regulations

Offshore drilling

Energy production on federal lands

EPA Carbon regulations

Regulatory reform

REINS Act

Regulatory process reform

Consent decree reform

Blocking Net Neutrality

Mandatory Spending Reforms

Mostly from the sequester replacement bills we passed last year

Federal Employee retirement reform

Ending the Dodd Frank bailout fund

Transitioning CFPB funding to Appropriations

Child Tax Credit Reform to prevent fraud

Repealing the Social Services Block grant

Health Spending Reforms

Means testing Medicare

Repealing a Medicaid Provider tax gimmick

Tort reform

Altering Disproportion Share Hospitals

Repealing the Public Health trust Fund
 

Diablos

Member
How do you "block" net neutrality? WTF

GOPers really think they are going to get what they're listing off? Democrats better not cave.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Anybody else see that list of demands from Republicans over the debt ceiling?

Fucking unbelievable.

They must be fucking insane if they think they'll get even one of those things. Do they not remember they only control one House of Congress? What ever they're smoking, I could use some of that man.
 

Diablos

Member
The sad thing is people will look at this and say "GEE YKNOW THIS IS WHY DEMOCRATS ARE NO BETTER THAN REPUBLICANS, THEY WON'T COMPROMISE". Yes, because not wanting to budge on delaying the implementation of something THAT IS LAW in any fashion that is designed to allow those who were unable to be able to afford insurance despite being in poor physical or mental health now have an option.

Fuck West Virginia, by the way.
 

teiresias

Member

As a Federal Employee I'd really like to know why they think Federal Employee retirement needs to be reformed. Those of us under FERS retirement are already getting crappy retirement benefits compared to those under the CSRS system.

I mean what form would any reform even take? It's basically just a government run 401k at this point, unless they want to privatize it and get us the same crappy maintenance fees as everyone else to line bankers pockets even more.
 
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