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PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1

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C

Cloudy

Banned
I'm really getting annoyed with the media. Why must the Dems give Boehner a face-saving way out? He needs to be humiliated and broken to stop this garbage once and for all
 
H

hipsterpants

Member
I figured this would be the best place to ask this so...

Ever since I've come up to college for this semester I've been totally out of the loop in terms of politics and news. Like, not only do I seem to stay uninformed but I find it hard to get motivated and look this stuff up. It's really bizarre because when I'm back at home I spend a lot of time reading about politics and take a large interest in it, getting in a lot of discussions with my dad. Anyone else ever experience something like this? Any advice?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Cloudy said:
I'm really getting annoyed with the media. Why must the Dems give Boehner a face-saving way out? He needs to be humiliated and broken to stop this garbage once and for all
Click to expand...

Because that's the only way this ends before the debt ceiling and as much as he and his party deserves all the hate they get, a lot of innocent people are getting hurt because of all this.

That's the logic at play. We know it's the Tea Party's fault, but they're morons who don't know what they're doing.

I don't agree with this, I think Boehner has to fold and his party needs to learn a lesson, but I do understand the desire to see all the harm this shutdown is doing end.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
j_k_redtail said:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/10/0...s-gop-unity-in-epic-battle.html?from=homepage

Not 'if.' 'When.'

We're going to have a two week shutdown so the Speaker can save face. Ladies and gentlemen, today's Republican Party.
Click to expand...

Ouch, that's quite a harsh, sad profile. This has been a slow motion car crash for him thus far. And if/when republicans fail, it'll also be a pretty blatant case of them going deep into the playbook and still getting embarrassed.

1.Grandstanding and false outrage, ie the WWII vets stunt
2. A news network completely regurgitating talking points, including group tested rhetoric ("slimdown")
3. Orwellian misdirection on who "wants" the shutdown, despite multiple cases of Bachman and others saying they're happy about the shutdown.

etc
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
B-Dubs said:
Because that's the only way this ends before the debt ceiling and as much as he and his party deserves all the hate they get, a lot of innocent people are getting hurt because of all this.

That's the logic at play. We know it's the Tea Party's fault, but they're morons who don't know what they're doing.
Click to expand...

This reasoning is bullshit. The media needs to put pressure on a Boehner to put the clean CR up for a vote. Obama has to be strong on this and break them now or it will happen again in a few weeks
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Cloudy said:
This reasoning is bullshit. The media needs to put pressure on a Boehner to put the clean CR up for a vote. Obama has to be strong on this and break them now or it will happen again in a few weeks
Click to expand...

I agree with you, and to their credit they have been doing that as well. Today is the first day I have ever heard about the media wanting Dems to give Boehner an out.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
Cyan said:
And again a few weeks after that. Pretty sure the clean CR only lasts until mid-November.
Click to expand...

Yep. We'll know if the fever is broken if the next CR goes smoothly. If it doesn't, rinse and repeat. No more negotiations as far as I'm concerned, except for on Democratic demands to increase spending. And I will suffer personally for it, but that's okay.
 
R

Riki

Member
empty vessel said:
Yep. We'll know if the fever is broken if the next CR goes smoothly. If it doesn't, rinse and repeat. No more negotiations as far as I'm concerned, except for on Democratic demands to increase spending. And I will suffer personally for it, but that's okay.
Click to expand...

Could you imagine if the Republicans force another shutdown? Could they even gather enough support for a next time? They have to see this is killing them.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
Listening to today's WH press briefing and I gotta say Jay Carney is really good at his job now (I remember him having a shaky start).

Dude slaps down GOP talking points with ease now...
 
P

pigeon

Banned
One quick hit from the Republican voter breakdown (which you really should read -- in fact, I'll repost the link from earlier: http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor rpp fg memo 100313 final.pdf):

In the group of moderate [Republican] women in Raleigh, participants were very supportive, surprisingly so, of a Hillary Clinton presidency. Weighing the option of voting for Hillary Clinton versus a Republican male, the moderate Republican women in Raleigh chose Clinton, on balance.
Click to expand...

itshappening.gif
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Riki said:
Could you imagine if the Republicans force another shutdown? Could they even gather enough support for a next time? They have to see this is killing them.
Click to expand...

They'd be dead if they tried it again. After this it's too close to the midterms for them to try this shit again.
 
Bitmap Frogs

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
At this point with the piece meal continuing resolutions the republicans look like a kid toying with its food, pushing apart the vegetables and eating the potatoes.
 
J

Jimothy

Member
What are your guys' thoughts on A People's History of the United States? I'm about halfway through with it and loving it. I'm not sure I completely agree with Zinn's interpretation of Lincoln and the Civil War but other than that it's incredibly refreshing. Should be required reading in American history classes.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Jimothy said:
What are your guys' thoughts on A People's History of the United States? I'm about halfway through with it and loving it. I'm not sure I completely agree with Zinn's interpretation of Lincoln and the Civil War but other than that it's incredibly refreshing. Should be required reading in American history classes.
Click to expand...

Some teachers are using it in their classes. I know a guy who is basically using it as the main textbook in his class (he uses the other one, but not nearly as much).

Personally I also like it a whole lot.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Bitmap Frogs said:
At this point with the piece meal continuing resolutions the republicans look like a kid toying with its food, pushing apart the vegetables and eating the potatoes.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I see any kind of strategy here. The public isn't buying that a Senate vote against these is proof that Dems are against vets, cancer kids, and disaster victims.

It's just making them look like they aren't aren't listening by trying effectively the same thing over and over again.

As you suggest, they look like children, petulant children.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
B-Dubs said:
I doubt it, I don't think anyone in the House or Senate is up for reelection until next year.
Click to expand...

The Virginia race is the big one. The right is already making excuses about the shutdown dooming Cuccinelli but that's nonsense: he's been down 4-6 points for months. As expected, he's too extreme for the state. Meanwhile the religious right is ready to dismiss the loss on the grounds of establishment business republicans supporting McAuliffe over Cuccinelli, thus kneecapping him. Meh.

They'll always have an excuse for when they lose.
 
E

East Lake

Member
crush said:
I figured this would be the best place to ask this so...

Ever since I've come up to college for this semester I've been totally out of the loop in terms of politics and news. Like, not only do I seem to stay uninformed but I find it hard to get motivated and look this stuff up. It's really bizarre because when I'm back at home I spend a lot of time reading about politics and take a large interest in it, getting in a lot of discussions with my dad. Anyone else ever experience something like this? Any advice?
Click to expand...
You could follow the journalists you like on twitter that way you don't have to do any active searching when you're busy.
 
V

Videoneon

Member
Jimothy said:
What are your guys' thoughts on A People's History of the United States? I'm about halfway through with it and loving it. I'm not sure I completely agree with Zinn's interpretation of Lincoln and the Civil War but other than that it's incredibly refreshing. Should be required reading in American history classes.
Click to expand...

I got it a while ago, it's a nice read. I'm only up to the ninth or tenth chapter, but I did "cheat" and read the last two. The moment where I hit that ten page or so mark, and read the pages regarding his stance on historical portrayal and the intent of the historian, that was very refreshing, considering the largely whitewashed curriculum I remember getting in school. It was better to get the political nature of being a historian out in the open and avoid the pretense of pure objectivity (and I feel that People's History is given validity especially contra to the whitewashing in teaching, which IIRC it was explicitly designed to do), but having just come form a small feminist book that touched on the sometimes political nature of academe, it wasn't a total shock.

I do wish he gave a little more text to the Boston Tea Party, but other than that, I'm happy. A bounty of accompanying sources for each chapter, too.

crush said:
I figured this would be the best place to ask this so...

Ever since I've come up to college for this semester I've been totally out of the loop in terms of politics and news. Like, not only do I seem to stay uninformed but I find it hard to get motivated and look this stuff up. It's really bizarre because when I'm back at home I spend a lot of time reading about politics and take a large interest in it, getting in a lot of discussions with my dad. Anyone else ever experience something like this? Any advice?
Click to expand...

Sounds like different activity levels, possibly a lack of someone to regularly discuss with. Maybe you are quite committed in school or hang out a lot. When I was in college the pattern for me was similar to you; it was harder to keep up on the news because I'd be goofing off or hanging out, working, and etc. etc., and when I ended up back home it'd be easier for me to read. Especially since where I'm from is a little sleepier than where I went to school.

I loved scheduling. I checked the news in the morning even if only for a bit, and sometimes at night. I'd try to remember some of what I'd read in the morning throughout the day. If you know anyone else who is interested in politics and the news hang out with them--sometimes I'd learn something by talking to them or checking out the weekly debate halls. This is great if they cover a blind spot of yours interest-wise, but even if they don't it's good just to bounce opinions off of the same topic. Keep in mind I had a moderate interest in politics at the time though.

So consider:
1) setting aside time and making habits of it (I often reserved Sundays for checking out longer pieces of literature/videos, besides my checking up in the morning)
2) meeting other people/going to places where they congregate or issues are discussed
3) stopping by the library cafe every so often where CNN or something is playing, just to see if something develops
4) perhaps you may want to consider podcasts if you're very on-the-go. I don't listen to podcasts at all but I know others have posted here about good podcasts to check out

-------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a little old, but I'll be watching to see how this unfolds:

Gayle McLaughlin, mayor of Richmond, California, plan to use eminent domain to seize underwater mortgages and aid homeowners with a special plan

McLaughlin, a member of the leftist Green Party, is leading a novel effort by the city to buy 624 underwater mortgages in Richmond, pay the investor-owners some of what they're owed and set the homeowner up with a new mortgage closer to the home's current value.

If investors don't sell, the city says it may use its eminent domain powers to seize the mortgages at fair market value.

The idea is to prevent foreclosures, which cause blight, and help homeowners still stuck with mortgage loans far greater than their home's value, McLaughlin says.
Click to expand...

Richmond, a city of 105,000 that is 70% minority, was hit hard in the housing bust.

Home values tanked 66% from their peak in 2006 to a median of $156,000 at the end of 2011, Zillow data show. That's led to thousands of foreclosures and millions of dollars in lost property tax revenue, McLaughlin says. Home prices have climbed back to a median of $218,000, but four of 10 mortgaged homes are still underwater.

Many of those are at risk of foreclosure, McLaughlin says. Last month, she marched with other protesters to Wells Fargo's headquarters in San Francisco in support of the plan.
Click to expand...

Here's how the plan would work. Assume a house has a $300,000 mortgage. The city might argue its current value is only $160,000. If a judge agreed, the city would use funds from investment firm Mortgage Resolution Partners to buy the loan. The homeowner would refinance into a new loan, perhaps for $190,000. Those funds would pay off the city. The $30,000 difference between what the city paid, and what it got, would be split among MRP, its investors and the city.

The plan's implementation is far from certain.

After an eight-hour city council meeting earlier this month, the council narrowly approved McLaughlin's proposal to take the next step with the plan and try draw in more cities. The council will have to vote again to actually seize loans and get a "yes" vote from one of the members who voted "no" at the last meeting.

If the city seizes a loan, "There would be an immediate court challenge," Deutsch says. What's more, if sellers aren't willing to sell, the courts would have to determine fair pricing for the mortgages.

Investors already filed suit against the plan once. A federal judge said the claims were not yet "ripe" because Richmond hadn't actually done anything yet.

A handful of other cities are considering the same strategy as Richmond's, but it's taken the idea the furthest, says Cornell University law professor Robert Hockett, a chief proponent.
Click to expand...

"You don't bite the hand that feeds you. … You sit down with them," says Richmond City Councilman Nathaniel Bates, a frequent McLaughlin opponent. He says Chevron is working hard to modernize a 111-year-old plant that predates the city.

The use of eminent domain won't hurt Wall Street as much as it'll hurt Richmond, Bates says.

He fears that investors won't buy Richmond's bonds if the city proceeds. Richmond may have gotten such a warning shot last month when it failed to find takers for a $34 million bond offering.

The city also isn't offering enough for the mortgages, Deutsch says.

For the 624 home loans, Richmond offered a "fair market value" that averages 52% of what's owed, shows an analysis by independent consulting firm PF2 Securities Evaluations. Of the loans, 444 of them are current. The median balance owed is about $380,000.
Click to expand...

It seems highly unlikely to pan out as well as she wants, but it's not yet clear to me why one shouldn't root for her. I wonder how severe the consequences of people not buying municipal bonds will be, or how realistic such a scenario is (beyond the one already cited.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Riki said:
Polls seem to heavily point the blame at Republicans/The GOP.
Some goes to Obama. Very little to Democrats in general.
Click to expand...

Isn't that close to what the polls were saying before the shutdown? I wonder if the damage to moderates has already been done and there's not much more damage to be seen with that for the time being. In that case the damage to their base is all that's left for them to care about, but chances are they're not going to salvage that either if they pass a clean CR.

I love how republicans seemed to find a way to get both the moderates and their base pissed at them at the same time.
 
S

siddhu33

Member
thepotatoman said:
Isn't that close to what the polls were saying before the shutdown? I wonder if the damage to moderates has already been done and there's not much more damage to be seen with that for the time being. In that case the damage to their base is all that's left for them to care about, but chances are they're not going to salvage that either if they pass a clean CR.

I love how republicans seemed to find a way to get both the moderates and their base pissed at them at the same time.
Click to expand...

When your base is so far right that they make Romney and Obama look like Lenin and Trotsky, you know there's a problem.
 
J

Jooney

Member
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
Fox News poll time -

Who is to blame for the shutdown?

25% Republicans (like Boehner)
24% President Obama
17% Tea Partiers (like Cruz)


The screen ticker during the rest of the analysis segment reads

"Shutdown Showdown
Poll: 25% blame GOP, 24% blame President"


Public divided on shutdown blame!
 
W

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
Jooney said:
Remember that scene in George Orwell's 'Nineteen Eighty-Four' where Members of the Party gather for the Two Minutes Hate? Where they show the enemy of the state Emmanuel Goldstein on the big screen, and members of the party froth at the moth, curse and howl and enter into uncontrobble fits of rage?

This is what reading Tea Party reactions to Obama are like.
Click to expand...

Damn that is pretty accurate.
 
B

bonercop

Member
I've been thinking about a way for the democrats to win at least a little on the budget : could the democrats propose accepting paul ryan's earlier budget suggestion? It's higher than what they're fighting for now, and by attaching paul ryan's name to it, it makes republicans look even more unreasonable when they shriek about it.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Mario said:
Fox News poll time -

Who is to blame for the shutdown?

25% Republicans (like Boehner)
24% President Obama
17% Tea Partiers (like Cruz)


The screen ticker during the rest of the analysis segment reads

"Shutdown Showdown
Poll: 25% blame GOP, 24% blame President"


Public divided on shutdown blame!
Click to expand...

I like how Cruz is somehow not a Republican now.
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
Mario said:
Fox News poll time -

Who is to blame for the shutdown?

25% Republicans (like Boehner)
24% President Obama
17% Tea Partiers (like Cruz)


The screen ticker during the rest of the analysis segment reads

"Shutdown Showdown
Poll: 25% blame GOP, 24% blame President"


Public divided on shutdown blame!
Click to expand...

So 42% blame Republicans.
 
K

kehs

Banned
I keep getting inti arguments with people calling out Obama for his "budget" that didn't get a single vote.

Once the aca takes effect face puches will be dealt out without discrimination.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
pigeon said:
One quick hit from the Republican voter breakdown (which you really should read -- in fact, I'll repost the link from earlier: http://www.democracycorps.com/attachments/article/954/dcor rpp fg memo 100313 final.pdf):



itshappening.gif
Click to expand...

And I imagine when the GOP engine engages against Hillary with their usual vitriol it will only drive those moderate women closer to her

Mr-Burns-Saying-Excellent.gif
 
R

Riki

Member
789shadow said:
Maybe she may not want to be President anymore. I mean, look at the shit she'd have to deal with.
Click to expand...

I think, if any of that was going to stop her, it would have been from when her husband was President. She saw it all first hand and then some.
I think she'll run, and probably win. I can't see anyone the Republicans can bring up to challenge her.

Though, speaking of, this reminds me of that Disney movie, Zenon, that talked about Chelsea Clinton being president.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
789shadow said:
Maybe she may not want to be President anymore. I mean, look at the shit she'd have to deal with.
Click to expand...

But she'd be credited with (along with Obama) putting the nail in the coffin of the Republican party.

The two national parties being liberal dems and conservatively sane dems would be so fucking awesome.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I'm just imagining it now...the same media engine that turned Obama into a sleazy, lying anti-Christ from Kenya turns full bore on Hillary and as a result moderate Republican women, half of a faction that's a third of the party, 7.5 percent of the population, look at it with horror and go "what the fuck?"
 
O

Owzers

Member
The Technomancer said:
I'm just imagining it now...the same media engine that turned Obama into a sleazy, lying anti-Christ from Kenya turns full bore on Hillary and as a result moderate Republican women, half of a faction that's a third of the party, 7.5 percent of the population, look at it with horror and go "what the fuck?"
Click to expand...

It's got to be nothing but those 2am phone call ads hilary ran herself, but re-enacted with the Benghazi attack. Nonstop for a year. " Hilary will answer the phone, and Americans will die"
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
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