• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

Status
Not open for further replies.

Piecake

Member
While I agree the 401k model is a substandard retirement vehicle, the abysmal amount of savings that article talks about suggests pretty much no savings going on . . . period . . . regardless of what kind of instrument is being used to do it. That's a somewhat larger systemic problem that is the result of a combination of problems including wage stagnation.

I think thats a factor, but I think the biggest problem is that a lot of people have a hard time thinking that far ahead and saving that much when there are bills to pay, things to do, life to live, etc. This is compounded by the fact that you really have no idea how much you have to save. Basically you are told to save a lot and go at it. Pretty stupid.

Voluntary retirement is a disaster, you gotta make it mandatory, and a mandatory pension like social security is definitely the best because you can't fuck that up like you can a mandatory retirement account. I am sure some idiot will take my ideal retirement acocunt plan, invest all in bonds or not invest in enough bonds in retirement, be totally fucked, take out too much in the beginning and be stuck eating dog food when he is 100
 

Chichikov

Member
Ah, indeed stupid. Personally, I wouldnt be opposed to a retirement account system so long as it is done correctly. Expanded Social Security though is clearly the best solution

I think this is a realistic 'solution' for the US. I think we will eventually switch to opt-out instead of opt-in and at 10% of salary. What we will opt into is low cost index funds and put a limit on 401k fees and eliminate 401k borrowing. That will help, but still will really suck

The best individual retirement account solution is to make it run by the government, make it a mandatory 10% of income, give people the option of only investing in index funds, and make borrowing from that account prohibited. People can invest more into there if they want to.
I know I wrote it before, but I'll repeat because I think it's important - individual retirement accounts make zero sense. Not only are you asked to answer an impossible question (how much money you'll need in retirement) you also need to bare all that risk.
Now because saving enough money for the average amount you need in retirement means you have a pretty good chance of running out of money, the responsible thing to do is to oversave, and oversaving, while good for wall street is bad for you and bad for the economy.

p.s.
Whenever people say they're retirement outlook is looking fine I like to ask them what are the odds they'll run out of money before they die.
 

teiresias

Member
I think thats a factor, but I think the biggest problem is that a lot of people have a hard time thinking that far ahead and saving that much when there are bills to pay, things to do, life to live, etc.

This is true, and I've always found it puzzling, given how many people respond that they don't feel Social Security will be around for them in the future, that there seems to be a disconnect in feeling it won't be around and yet not doing any saving on one's own if one feels that way to begin with.
 
More anti-ENDA "reasoning"!
Take a private boys’ school that publicly adheres to Christian teaching. The school is within its rights to prohibit its teachers from outwardly displaying a lifestyle that clashes with its moral teaching. If the teacher gets drunk publicly or regularly shows disrespect for clergy, it’s legitimate for the school to fire him — especially if these standards were made clear before hiring. (Schools run by churches would be exempt from ENDA, but many religious schools are independent from churches and would be covered.)

Some standards will relate to sexuality. Having a live-in girlfriend would clash with Christian teaching, and a school might not want a teacher who divorced and remarried without a Church-granted annulment of the first marriage.

In the same vein, the Catholic Church doesn't recognize same-sex marriages (and President Obama has repeatedly promised he wouldn't try to force the Church to do so). So does Congress have the right to bar an independent private school, publicly professing the Catholic faith, from firing a teacher for marrying someone of the same sex?

This hypothetical is a distinct issue from hiring or firing simply on the basis of sexual preference — it’s hiring and firing on the basis of public lifestyle. But it’s tied up enough with sexual preference that ENDA would affect it, thus impinging on legitimate practices by private employers.

Similarly, the bill bans discrimination based on “gender identity.” The idea is to protect people who suffer from what psychiatrists call “gender dysmorphia” — the sense that your inner gender is somehow different from your biological gender. But what if your store clerk starts dressing like a woman simply out of anti-social rebellion? Has he now entered a protected class under ENDA?

I dunno about you guys, but I can't argue with any of that.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Weiner on Bill Maher last night made me majorly sad he's not around anymore. Ugh. He didn't even do anything THAT wrong. Nothing Tom Ford hasn't done!

His biggest mistake was in resigning. His mayoral campaign might not have survived round 2, but he may well have stayed in the House.

Edit: also, if incomes were rising, retirement savings would be much higher. Not as high as it should be, and certainly the 401(k) system is horrible. But with stagnant or even falling wages for decades, of course retirement savings is low. And then we threw workers to the Wall Street wolves on top of it.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
All they want is the freedom to be bigoted and oppressive towards others. Why must you guys step on their freedoms like that?

There was some Democrat in Hawaii last night that literally started her anti-gay marriage speech with "I apologize in advance if I offend anyone."

And boy, DID SHE! I'll try to find a link. Rep Awana if anyone is faster than me.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
It's definitely a shame Weiner resigned. Whenever I listen to him speak I wish there were more liberals who are as aggressive as he is.
 
what's his problem

also Dax's avatar remains broken

EjDW4In.png


no ur broken

As for Cohn, I think he's just pissed off that not all polling outfits exist to be perfectly understandable cogs in meta-poll aggregation machines. Some places are more black box and that seems to perturb some people.
 
The problem I have with expanding Social Security is that the majority of the costs of that increase will fall on the young, and our generations already have things so much harder than those of the retiring baby boomers. It's basically another bailout of the banks except with old people.
 

Chichikov

Member
The problem I have with expanding Social Security is that the majority of the costs of that increase will fall on the young, and our generations already have things so much harder than those of the retiring baby boomers. It's basically another bailout of the banks except with old people.
The cost can fall on whoever we want.
Also, social security is significantly more efficient than the 401k model, so the youngwould benefit from that as well.
 

Piecake

Member
The cost can fall on whoever we want.
Also, social security is significantly more efficient than the 401k model, so the youngwould benefit from that as well.

Social Security funded by a high frequency trade tax and an increase short term capital gains tax would be poetic justice. I dont care if it isnt consistent enough, the sweet justice would be amazing
 

Chichikov

Member
Social Security funded by a high frequency trade tax and an increase short term capital gains tax would be poetic justice. I dont care if it isnt consistent enough, the sweet justice would be amazing
I don't like the model where we fund specific programs with specific taxes and I generally believe that enacting a law out of spite is not the greatest thing in the world, but yeah, that would be pretty sweet, and throw in inheritance tax there for good measure.
 

Sibylus

Banned
He's supported by Canada's version of the Tea Party. I shouldn't need to say anything else.
Certainly our version of it, but Ford nation is gallingly both dumber and more permissive with their beloved candidates. Can't recall what he does outside of saying he's things he's not, and that's all they need to hear to vote for him until the sun dies. Good luck starting any sort of adversarial politicking a la tea nutters to get the base invested and pressure the candidate, because the imbeciles bore up a God fashioned in their own image. Praise Ford.
 
My stress is going through the roof arguing with the conservatives I end up hanging out with.

Just had a 45 minute discussion on Affirmative Action with a registered lobbyist. Ugh. Everytime I hear the word 'meritocracy' to argue against it I hear 'screw the minorities/women/poor people/veterans'

Racial discrimination is something I hate viscerally.

Edit: on a different note, does anybody have any studies on private vs. public efficiency?
 
My stress is going through the roof arguing with the conservatives I end up hanging out with.

Just had a 45 minute discussion on Affirmative Action with a registered lobbyist. Ugh. Everytime I hear the word 'meritocracy' to argue against it I hear 'screw the minorities/women/poor people/veterans'

Racial discrimination is something I hate viscerally.

where are you anyway if you have to put up with conservatives contstantly
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Apparently even Mississippi approves of the ENDA with 63% supporting it.

Will ENDA receive the necessary votes? If senators listened to their constituents, the bill would pass overwhelmingly. Nearly all recent opinion polls indicate that a large majority of the American public — more than 70 percent — supports efforts to make employment discrimination against gay men and and lesbians illegal. Of course, these national numbers are not what the senators are likely to care about. However, when we use national polls to estimate opinion by state, we find that majorities in all 50 states support ENDA-like legislation (note that in 1996, majorities in only 36 states supported ENDA). Today, public support ranges from a low of 63 percent in Mississippi to a high of 81 percent in Massachusetts. Here’s the graph of the approximate numbers based on our estimates from survey responses:

And yet the house really isn't going to pass it?
 

Chichikov

Member
My stress is going through the roof arguing with the conservatives I end up hanging out with.

Just had a 45 minute discussion on Affirmative Action with a registered lobbyist. Ugh. Everytime I hear the word 'meritocracy' to argue against it I hear 'screw the minorities/women/poor people/veterans'

Racial discrimination is something I hate viscerally.
I don't think there is an American political issue that caused me to lose my shit arguing about in real life more often than affirmative action.
Fucking hell, minorities (and women) are severely underrepresented in many walks of life (even after controlling for everything you can think about) , so unless you're offering a better alternative, you're either saying that you don't give a shit about discrimination or you argue that those groups are somehow inferior to white men.
 
APKmetsfan witnesses an episode of House Of Cards, everyday.

No
murder
yet.... Its depressing though, a lot of the people in this city are pretty much exactly what you expect. There are a lot of good people here though.

I've even run into a few Empty Vessel types hahaha, they exist IRL
 

Piecake

Member
My stress is going through the roof arguing with the conservatives I end up hanging out with.

Just had a 45 minute discussion on Affirmative Action with a registered lobbyist. Ugh. Everytime I hear the word 'meritocracy' to argue against it I hear 'screw the minorities/women/poor people/veterans'

Racial discrimination is something I hate viscerally.

Edit: on a different note, does anybody have any studies on private vs. public efficiency?

http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/en...ctor-is-more-efficient-than-the-public-sector

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/how-efficient-is-private-charity/?_r=0

Doesnt really come to a conclusion (cant really in this instance), but raises good questions

So yea, I guess i wouldnt call those studies, just good articles that might bring up a study or two
 
I don't think there is an American political issue that caused me to lose my shit arguing about in real life more often than affirmative action.
Fucking hell, minorities (and women) are severely underrepresented in many walks of life (even after controlling for everything you can think about) , so unless you're offering a better alternative, you're either saying that you don't give a shit about discrimination or you argue that those groups are somehow inferior to white men.
Interestingly it started because the dude was frustrated the government gives a boost to veterans. The words AA came up and it went from there.

The typical tropes came up: its giving something to people who aren't qualified [it doesn't], promotes mediocrity [it doesn't], personal responsibility [bootstraps lulz], slavery and jim crow was a long time ago [really?]. They were arguing against the very idea of helping those that are disadvantaged [it magically is gonna fix itself I guess?].

Funny anecdote: after I mentioned that things should be representative he mockingly asked 'should we work to do the same congress?' He asked it in such a way that it was clear he thought the notion was absurd.

http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/en...ctor-is-more-efficient-than-the-public-sector

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/how-efficient-is-private-charity/?_r=0

Doesnt really come to a conclusion (cant really in this instance), but raises good questions

So yea, I guess i wouldnt call those studies, just good articles that might bring up a study or two
I brought up health care and the military.

my understanding is that a lot of the 'government inefficiency' is due to private contracts and the added steps that puts in. Look at the military in war zones, they get stuff done.

lol dancing with colored people! What's next he have to talk to them? What would his parents think?
She was cute too! I was jelly. But the look on his face was priceless.
 

Chichikov

Member
Interestingly it started because the dude was frustrated the government gives a boost to veterans. The words AA came up and it went from there.

The typical tropes came up: its giving something to people who aren't qualified [it doesn't], promotes mediocrity [it doesn't], personal responsibility [bootstraps lulz], slavery and jim crow was a long time ago [really?]. They were arguing against the very idea of helping those that are disadvantaged [it magically is gonna fix itself I guess?].

Funny anecdote: after I mentioned that things should be representative he mockingly asked 'should we work to do the same congress?' He asked it in such a way that it was clear he thought the notion was absurd.
Even from a purely utilitarian perspective discrimination is fucking terrible, to quote that pinko commie Richard Nixon -
"We cannot compete successfully against communism if we fail to utilize completely the minds and energy of all our citizens".

Though come to think about that, he was kinda wrong about that, the US managed to compete successfully even with rampant discrimination...
 

Piecake

Member
Even from a purely utilitarian perspective discrimination is fucking terrible, to quote that pinko commie Richard Nixon -
"We cannot compete successfully against communism if we fail to utilize completely the minds and energy of all our citizens".

Though come to think about that, he was kinda wrong about that, the US managed to compete successfully even with rampant discrimination...

Thankfully, the dirty commies were using a lot fewer minds than us.
 
Even from a purely utilitarian perspective discrimination is fucking terrible, to quote that pinko commie Richard Nixon -
"We cannot compete successfully against communism if we fail to utilize completely the minds and energy of all our citizens".

If you come at it from most perspectives it makes sense, but not from the 'screw you I got mine' mindset. he also doesn't see it as discrimination. Its just meritocracy!
 

Sibylus

Banned
His argument is if you can't afford college because your parents can't pay for it, McDonalds it is (don't think about striking and messing with the dollar menu)
So how exactly does he square lip service for hereditary poverty with lip service for merit? Maybe he should take up arguing with his mouth full, talk out of one side at a time.
 
So how exactly does he square lip service for hereditary poverty with lip servicefor merit? Maybe he should take up arguing with his mouth full, talk out of one side at a time.

Giving him too much credit, and I added the bit about the dollar menu. Just the vibe I get.
 

East Lake

Member
His argument is if you can't afford college because your parents can't pay for it, McDonalds it is (don't think about striking and messing with the dollar menu)
You are more patient than I. I'd probably go straight into making fun of these plebs for not making millions and getting a free ride at their mid-tier uni.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom