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[BLACKLAC]

The author of that piece also says the bin laden raid was all lie. He's also been dupped before.

He uses unnamed sources and doesn't produce any tangible evidence. Its full of innuendo, putting his thoughts in to other peoples mouths and generally trying to hard to "get" the administration as intentionally deceitful a grand conspiracy (this is a running theme in his work which isn't borne out by facts.)
Two other outlets passed on it and the administration flatly denied it.

I know he did things about my ling and abu ghraib but this is really weak.
That and this goes against what actually happened, we never went to war.

lol PD and the new troll on the block Wayne must be bored.

 

[Aylinato]

PD and his new protege WayneMorse are a big reason I've largely left this thread behind.

Hey don't you leave me get back here.

 

[ISOM]

Worthless when the offending posts get repeatedly quoted by others.

true

 

[The Librarian]

It's amazing that the general response here to the administration blatantly lying to support war is "well, Americans don't care about this so it doesn't matter."

This president and his administration are a fucking joke.

If you're not trolling — and it's really annoying if you are — why would I believe this source? Nobody else has reported anything similar, and the article linked, as far as I can tell, doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Ugh.

 

[User 250141]

Poli-GAF, talk me off the political ledge.

Maybe it's just my penchant for losing causes, but I feel like the current political trends are against me on almost every issue, and it's really discouraging.

Like most of Poli-GAF, I have no tolerance for libertarianism/objectivism and decry people who worry about the deficit without understanding basic economic theory. It's depressing to see so many people un- or under-employed when

And as a pro-life, pro-family voter, I think society and government have a role not just in stimulating the economy but in promoting the values that will help people make good decisions and stick to them. But, I've seen a lot of these issues turn from winning wedge issues for us to losing wedge issues for us, either now or in past generations. (I think the institution of no-fault divorce is one of the worst crimes done to the American people in the past century.)

I'm also pretty hawkish, and I'm disgusted by the redditization of American politics that has
led so many Americans to root against their own military and their own intelligence service.

About the one positive development I can think of recently is some of the movement to increase the minimum wage (at least locally, if not federally), which is long overdue.

Otherwise, we seem to be sliding in the direction of a libertarian dystopia, which isn't good for anyone.

I look at the education ranking threads, and I realize what a complete joke this country is compared to India or South Korea or Singapore or other countries that actually have a functioning society and invest in their future. When they've completed wiped us off our perch and we're subservient to them, I can't say it won't be deserved.

I'm really discouraged, to the point it's spilling over into the rest of my life. What's the point in working for anything when our country is headed for the dumpster? How can I not filled with dread when it seems inevitable that the future will be worse than the present?

Someone please convince me that the future is not as dire as it seems :\

 

[thefro]

The author of that piece also says the bin laden raid was all lie. He's also been dupped before.

He uses unnamed sources and doesn't produce any tangible evidence. Its full of innuendo, putting his thoughts in to other peoples mouths and generally trying to hard to "get" the administration as intentionally deceitful a grand conspiracy (this is a running theme in his work which isn't borne out by facts.)
Two other outlets passed on it and the administration flatly denied it.

I know he did things about my ling and abu ghraib but this is really weak.
That and this goes against what actually happened, we never went to war.

Yeah, Hersh's credibility has been pretty questionable for the last 15 years or so. This definitely isn't proof of anything one way or the other.

*edit*, Actually read it, and there's nothing here that contradicts my reading of events, which is that they bluffed their way into getting the agreement with Russia to get rid of the chemical weapons. Remember, they had been working on that for a while in the background with Russia.

The administration’s distortion of the facts surrounding the sarin attack raises an unavoidable question: do we have the whole story of Obama’s willingness to walk away from his ‘red line’ threat to bomb Syria? He had claimed to have an iron-clad case but suddenly agreed to take the issue to Congress, and later to accept Assad’s offer to relinquish his chemical weapons. It appears possible that at some point he was directly confronted with contradictory information: evidence strong enough to persuade him to cancel his attack plan, and take the criticism sure to come from Republicans.

Anyone who thinks Kerry and Hagel woke up one day and suddenly turned into the biggest war hawks ever for 3 weeks for no reason is a moron.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yeah, Hersh's credibility has been pretty questionable for the last 15 years or so. This definitely isn't proof of anything one way or the other.

*edit*, Actually read it, and there's nothing here that contradicts my reading of events, which is that they bluffed their way into getting the agreement with Russia to get rid of the chemical weapons. Remember, they had been working on that for a while in the background with Russia.

Anyone who thinks Kerry and Hagel woke up one day and suddenly turned into the biggest war hawks ever for 3 weeks for no reason is a moron.

Hersh's never really been as amazing as people want to make him out to be. While he's done good work at exposing things that had been hidden from the public he's always come at it from a conspiratorial view he seems to have his own views and finds people to confirm them. Its not that hard to do when your style is to base everything off unnamed sources.

 

[Diablos]

Beats the hell out of me. Also, that source of the article is questionable.

Also, jesus, is this new wave of juniors all libertarian nutters?

In fairness, I notice that generally speaking, a lot of kids today (teens/early 20's) tend to have more of a libertarian streak. Makes me feel old because I remember when I was that age and we were known for being more liberal.

 

[WayneMorse]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/w...-elves-and-trolls.html?ref=international-home

Interesting story, but I really don't think there's much controversy here. People don't really expect to have a right to privacy on World of Warcraft, right?

 

[Rhomega Beta]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/w...-elves-and-trolls.html?ref=international-home

Interesting story, but I really don't think there's much controversy here. People don't really expect to have a right to privacy on World of Warcraft, right?

Fearing that terrorist or criminal networks could use the games to communicate secretly, move money or plot attacks,

After reading this, I can't help but picture:
"WTB IED for 2,000g, send tell"
"LFG DPS, heals 4 NYC, DC"

I quit WoW a year ago, but I've been worried more about Chinese hackers and gold farmers more than anything.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

They should use EVE instead. Easier and the CIA analysts would get bored and stop paying attention.

 

[PhoenixDark]

If you're not trolling — and it's really annoying if you are — why would I believe this source? Nobody else has reported anything similar, and the article linked, as far as I can tell, doesn't bring anything new to the table.

Ugh.

I can't link now but Empty Wheel and others have been very skeptical of the administration's evidence. So far they still haven't proven that Assad gassed anyone, the CIA was allegedly present in the gas sites, much of the global community is openly skeptical, etc. it sounds like pure bullshit to me.

The administration stumbled into the Russian deal but I don't think the aggression was merely a bluff. I think the administration miscalculated in terms of expecting some support from congress and the public, and Obama screwed up by asking for a congressional vote; reports suggest the administration was not planning on a vote, and Obama's decision was a last minute time out.

The threat of attack was very real, enough to scare Russia. Remember, Richard Lugar and others proposed this exact idea to the Russians last year and they refused to consider it. We wouldn't have this deal if not for the threat of force, but I see no reason to believe it was just a bluff.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

http://www.lrb.co.uk/2013/12/08/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

aanndd the hits keep on coming. I think Obama has successfully screwed over any chance of the Dems gaining control of the House next year, and so good riddance to the Senate.

What a fucking asshole. What a disappointment.

I am so dispassioned with politics right now. Shit just sucks.

 

[The Librarian]

Brian Beutler makes fun of Amanda Carpenter and second richest member of Congress

Let’s start with McCaul’s initial complaint: that he can’t keep his existing coverage. Like millions of other Americans, his plan is being canceled because of Obamacare. But unlike every other person in the country who’s received a cancelation letter, McCaul and other members and aides are receiving them because of a GOP-authored amendment to the health care law prohibiting them from remaining in the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program. He should take this up with Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa.
advertisement

I don’t know how much McCaul paid for his old FEHB plan. But I do know that the D.C. market generally offers pretty decent deals, even for 51-year-olds like McCaul. As a general rule, young aides will have a better experience than old members because on the D.C. exchange they will be subject to a 3:1 age band — insurers can charge older beneficiaries up to three times as much as younger beneficiaries for the same plan. FEHBP isn’t age rated at all. Everyone pays the same premiums for the same plan no matter how old or young. So Obamacare’s a better deal for McCaul’s staff, who will no longer be over-subsidizing their boss, than it is for McCaul himself.

The fact that McCaul is the second richest member of Congress, worth over $100 million, should help him finance the difference.

[...]

I remarked in response that nobody on the Hill is actually required to enroll in Obamacare. Some staffers will end up on their spouses’ plans. Aides and members over 65 can enroll in Medicare. People can buy ACA compliant insurance outside of the exchanges. Some younger staffers might even be able to stay on their parents’ plans. And the rest can skip insurance altogether and pay the penalty. It turns out it’s not the law that’s forcing Carpenter to suffer through this traumatic experience — it’s her fear of being uninsured.​

Delicious.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I can't tell whether Carpenter is just dumb or lying. She was complaining a couple days ago about the deadline for 2014 insurance being today, and how the site is buggy. I told her that she has until March 31st and she responded to me, saying she is required to get insurance by today and can only use the exchange. Which simply isn't true.

Maybe she signed up for a plan weeks ago and is pretending otherwise, or maybe she's just dumb. However in my experience, even the most hardcore idealogues make the most beneficial decision when their finances are on the line; hence the multitude of republicans I know who have put their children on Medicaid since October 1st. Amanda has a kid and probably doesn't make a whole lot of money, so I'm baffled at how poorly she is handling this. It's not a game.

 

[Giant Panda]

Poli-GAF, talk me off the political ledge.
...

When you eventually come around to the right side on gay marriage then the recent progress on that issue should cheer you up.

 

[WayneMorse]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bill-bratton-article-1.1541241

Okay this is a little more promising, it's nice that they're doing outreach to the black community and I think Bratton could be a good commissioner if de Blasio keeps his word and reigns in some of his more authoritarian tactics.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yeah, Hersh's credibility has been pretty questionable for the last 15 years or so. This definitely isn't proof of anything one way or the other.

*edit*, Actually read it, and there's nothing here that contradicts my reading of events, which is that they bluffed their way into getting the agreement with Russia to get rid of the chemical weapons. Remember, they had been working on that for a while in the background with Russia.



Anyone who thinks Kerry and Hagel woke up one day and suddenly turned into the biggest war hawks ever for 3 weeks for no reason is a moron.

So why did the administration cherry pick intelligence, why were US allies completely unconvinced by said intelligence, why was the CIA inside Syria training death squads in the very city that was gassed.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/...actual-Chronology-On-U-S-Involvement-In-Syria

Nobody thinks Hagel is a hawk. He's a one of the least noteworthy and weakest Defense Secretaries in recent memory. I don't think Kerry is a hawk either, although he is a clear interventionist.

You don't train death squads to bluff someone. This was going down, and was stopped after it became clear the administration couldn't get away with it. Either that, or Obama chickened out.

 

[WayneMorse]

He's a one of the least noteworthy and weakest Defense Secretaries in recent memory.

He's been Defense Secretary for like 9 months, you should probably wait until the end of his term before you say that.

 

[PhoenixDark]

He's been Defense Secretary for like 9 months, you should probably wait until the end of his term before you say that.

And yet John Kerry has been Sec of State for a similar amount of time and is already on the verge of being the best in decades.

Hagel looks out of his element.

 

[Oblivion]

Brian Beutler makes fun of Amanda Carpenter and second richest member of Congress

Let’s start with McCaul’s initial complaint: that he can’t keep his existing coverage. Like millions of other Americans, his plan is being canceled because of Obamacare. But unlike every other person in the country who’s received a cancelation letter, McCaul and other members and aides are receiving them because of a GOP-authored amendment to the health care law prohibiting them from remaining in the Federal Employees Health Benefit Program. He should take this up with Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa.
advertisement

I don’t know how much McCaul paid for his old FEHB plan. But I do know that the D.C. market generally offers pretty decent deals, even for 51-year-olds like McCaul. As a general rule, young aides will have a better experience than old members because on the D.C. exchange they will be subject to a 3:1 age band — insurers can charge older beneficiaries up to three times as much as younger beneficiaries for the same plan. FEHBP isn’t age rated at all. Everyone pays the same premiums for the same plan no matter how old or young. So Obamacare’s a better deal for McCaul’s staff, who will no longer be over-subsidizing their boss, than it is for McCaul himself.

The fact that McCaul is the second richest member of Congress, worth over $100 million, should help him finance the difference.

[...]

I remarked in response that nobody on the Hill is actually required to enroll in Obamacare. Some staffers will end up on their spouses’ plans. Aides and members over 65 can enroll in Medicare. People can buy ACA compliant insurance outside of the exchanges. Some younger staffers might even be able to stay on their parents’ plans. And the rest can skip insurance altogether and pay the penalty. It turns out it’s not the law that’s forcing Carpenter to suffer through this traumatic experience — it’s her fear of being uninsured.​

Delicious.

Brian's late to the party, as usual.

 

[Wilsongt]

The sad reality of a majority of Republican controlled states: People want health insurance and to sign up for medcaid, but can't because "lol Obama and we don't want federal money".

What fucking trash these people are.


Americans Discover They're Trapped In GOP's Medicaid Expansion Gap

With HealthCare.gov working better and the first deadline to sign up for health coverage that starts in January approaching, Obamacare's so-called navigators -- the people and organizations receiving federal funds to help people enroll -- are seeing more and more people come through the doors and out to their events.

Navigators are community organizations, higher education institutions and government agencies. They keep offices and phone hot lines open and go out to community events, handing out flyers and giving presentations so people know how they can get insurance under the health care reform law. If somebody needs help navigating the insurance websites, they provide it. And with HealthCare.gov finally functioning, this has been their busiest time since the Oct. 1 launch.

But in 25 states, that robust interest has a downside: Navigators are forced to tell more and more people that they probably won't be able to get covered because their states, all of which had a GOP-controlled legislative chamber or governor, have refused to expand Medicaid. Lynne Thorp, who is overseeing the University of South Florida's navigator program in that state, told TPM that about one in four people who contact her team fall into that Medicaid gap.

"Those are hardest phone calls because it doesn't make any sense to them," Thorp said. "We have to explain that they fall into this gap where this program can't assist them."

It makes sense if you look at the numbers. According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, 38 percent of the U.S. uninsured have an income that's below the poverty line -- the population that won't qualify for either Medicaid expansion or any financial help to purchase private coverage through the law in non-expanding states. About 5 million people fall in that gap in those states.

But these people probably don't know that when they walk into a navigator's office or attend an outreach event. They just want to find out what options are available to them -- though it turns out the answer is not many.

So how are the navigators handling it?

Well, officially, they're asked to let those people that they can still apply to purchase insurance through the Obamacare marketplaces. There's always the possibility that the state will expand Medicaid at a later date, and this way, their information is already on file. The navigators also direct them to free clinics and other non-government assistance that can help them get care.

But without Medicaid or any tax help, actual insurance is likely to be too expensive for them to afford. These are the people with the lowest incomes. For them, Obamacare isn't going to make much difference at all.

In some cases, those being left out seem to understand, having been left out of the health insurance complex for a while, said Cynthia Rahming, who is heading the Houston, Texas, navigator program. She did agree, though, that her team is "often" coming across people who are part of the Medicaid gap in that state.

"They were excited. They were trying to see what's available to them," she said. "But they're still okay. They know it's just a chance."

But Thorp described angry and confused people who didn't understand why they wouldn't be able to get coverage under Obamacare. Like Rahming's group in Texas, her team refers people to free health clinics. But she acknowledged that they've started to become "desensitized" to those experiences, focusing instead on those they can help.

On the day of her interview with TPM, Thorp said she had talked to at least 15 people who found themselves in those circumstances. One older woman, not yet eligible for Medicare, repeated over and over that she needed insurance so she could get her hip replaced -- otherwise, she believed she'd become disabled.

"I feel really bad because I can't help them, and I really can't give them any better advice except for: 'Here's a free clinic,'" she said. "They just don't really understand what the coverage gap is."

There's also the political element to this. One navigator declined to speak with TPM on the record for fear of political repercussions. Republican officials in Florida and Texas have imposed additional requirements on navigators. Several top GOP senators have begun to disparage navigators in their public comments.

But though some were unwilling to speak publicly, they shared some of the experiences as Thorp and Rahming.

"It's awful," one navigator in a non-expanding state said. "It's basically: 'Here are the really great options, and you can't have them.'"

 

[Sibylus]

Iranian FM repeating for emphasis: Sanctions Would Kill Nuclear Deal (Robin Wright, Time)

When pressed for comment, members of Congress were observed spinning their luscious mustaches.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Iranian FM repeating for emphasis: Sanctions Would Kill Nuclear Deal (Robin Wright, Time)

When pressed for comment, members of Congress were observed spinning their luscious mustaches.

I'd be very surprised if the US senate managed to pass sanctions with enough votes to prevent a presidential veto.

 

[The Technomancer]

The sad reality of a majority of Republican controlled states: People want health insurance and to sign up for medcaid, but can't because "lol Obama and we don't want federal money".

What fucking trash these people are.


Americans Discover They're Trapped In GOP's Medicaid Expansion Gap

Rage rising

 

[Mario]

Rage rising

Hopefully the rage of Republican constituents.

 

[Oblivion]

The sad reality of a majority of Republican controlled states: People want health insurance and to sign up for medcaid, but can't because "lol Obama and we don't want federal money".

What fucking trash these people are.


Americans Discover They're Trapped In GOP's Medicaid Expansion Gap

On the plus side it'll mainly be Repubkican constituents suffering, so it's all good.

 

[Sirpopopop]

In fairness, I notice that generally speaking, a lot of kids today (teens/early 20's) tend to have more of a libertarian streak. Makes me feel old because I remember when I was that age and we were known for being more liberal.

This libertarian streak that's vomiting out of the likes of reddit really unnerves me. We're facing real problems in the U.S. (education, underemployment, environment, energy, etc.), yet they choose to focus only on what I can best term as first world issues. Important yes, but fundamentally less important than the stuff I listed above.

 

[Giant Panda]

And yet John Kerry has been Sec of State for a similar amount of time and is already on the verge of being the best in decades.

Hagel looks out of his element.

I don't even know why you're comparing them considering their jobs are pretty different. Kerry's job is much more headline grabbing in general while were not at war.

 

[ivysaur12]

The sad reality of a majority of Republican controlled states: People want health insurance and to sign up for medcaid, but can't because "lol Obama and we don't want federal money".

What fucking trash these people are.


Americans Discover They're Trapped In GOP's Medicaid Expansion Gap

I hate this. Hate. I still cannot believe that this requirement was deemed unconstitutional. Hate. Haaaaate.

 

[Black Mamba]

Rage rising

We knew this months and months ago. the law wasn't written in for those that would be fucked by the SCOTUS decision and in this case the admin couldn't do a fix because that's a lot of money to get away with it.

The key will be messaging and the Dems have to run on expanding medicaid in these states.

 

[User 250141]

This libertarian streak that's vomiting out of the likes of reddit really unnerves me.

Me, as well.

 

[speculawyer]

The sad reality of a majority of Republican controlled states: People want health insurance and to sign up for medcaid, but can't because "lol Obama and we don't want federal money".

What fucking trash these people are.


Americans Discover They're Trapped In GOP's Medicaid Expansion Gap

The GOP may have backed itself into a corner with the Obamacare hate. They've just gone all out trying to kill it for 4+ years now. But now if a lot of people get insurance through it and like it, they are going to end up with a lot of egg on their face.

Now one might think that might mean a huge disaster for the GOP. And it probably should. Like the pointless Iraq war over stockpiles of WMDs that did not exist and the irrational bigoted gay-bashing, the GOP should have been beat down to almost nothing because of such stupidity. But they never are. Too many people just forget about such bad decisions . . . or still secretly support them. I guess the combo of God, guns, and tax-cuts is just too hard for many to resist.

 

[Oblivion]

Palin gonna Palin:

She told the audience of students that the U.S. Constitution was written by and for moral and religious people, and that nonreligious people probably were incapable of appreciating its principles.

“If you lose that foundation, John Adams was implicitly warning us, then we will not follow our Constitution, there will be no reason to follow our Constitution because it is a moral and religious people who understand that there is something greater than self, we are to live selflessly, and we are to be held accountable by our creator, so that is what our Constitution is based on, so those revisionists, those in the lamestream media, especially, who would want to ignore what our founders actually thought, felt and wrote about in our charters of liberty - well, that’s why I call them the lamestream media,” Palin said…

“Thomas Jefferson and his thinking, I believe that much of it fundamentally came from this area, having spent his summers here, having spent influential years here, two miles away from Liberty University,” Palin said. “Man, there’s something in the water, perhaps, around here - again you are fortunate you get to taste it.”
Palin said Jefferson would likely agree that secularists had set their sights on destroying the religious themes in Christmas celebrations.

“He would recognize those who would want to try to ignore that Jesus is the reason for the season, those who would want to try to abort Christ from Christmas,” she said. “He would recognize that, for the most part, these are angry atheists armed with an attorney. They are not the majority of Americans.”

Palin said there was a double standard that protected atheists at the expense of the religious.

“Why is it they get to claim some offense taken when they see a plastic Jewish family on somebody’s lawn - a nativity scene, that’s basically what it is right?” she said. “Oh, they take such offense, though. They say that it physically even can hurt them and mentally it distresses them so they sue, right?”

“But heaven forbid we claim any type of offense when we say, ‘Wait, you’re stripping Jesus from the reason, as the reason for the season,’ but heaven forbid we claim any type of offense,” Palin said. “So that double standard, I think Thomas Jefferson would certainly recognize it and stand up and he wouldn’t let anybody tell him to sit down and shut up.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2013_12/history_palinized048099.php

Thomas Jefferson: the original Christmas warrior.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't even know why you're comparing them considering their jobs are pretty different. Kerry's job is much more headline grabbing in general while were not at war.

I know that. Like Kerry, Hagel entered his position in an advantageous position to make changes and influence policy. I haven't seen it, and neither has anyone else.

 

[Tesseract]

On the plus side it'll mainly be Repubkican constituents suffering, so it's all good.

:/

suffering is cool, it's all good.

 

[Aylinato]

Palin gonna Palin:






“But heaven forbid we claim any type of offense when we say, ‘Wait, you’re stripping Jesus from the reason, as the reason for the season,’ but heaven forbid we claim any type of offense,” Palin said. “So that double standard, I think Thomas Jefferson would certainly recognize it and stand up and he wouldn’t let anybody tell him to sit down and shut up.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2013_12/history_palinized048099.php

Thomas Jefferson: the original Christmas warrior.[/QUOTE]



The original constitution had slavery, 3/5th rule counting black people as 3/5 a person, only allowed for property owning rich white males to own property(minus other ethnicities that were not English descent)

Of course the original constitution had the 2nd amendment being only applied to militias, not personal liberty. I'm not sure why she loves it so much, she wouldn't even be able to participate under it, or run for office, or hold office, or even be able to run for vp as it was originally whoever got the 2nd highest vote.


God she's so fucking stupid

 

[speculawyer]

Palin gonna Palin:

“But heaven forbid we claim any type of offense when we say, ‘Wait, you’re stripping Jesus from the reason, as the reason for the season,’ but heaven forbid we claim any type of offense,” Palin said. “So that double standard, I think Thomas Jefferson would certainly recognize it and stand up and he wouldn’t let anybody tell him to sit down and shut up.”

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2013_12/history_palinized048099.php

Thomas Jefferson: the original Christmas warrior.[/QUOTE]

Ugh . . . I wish Christopher Hitchens were here to Hitchslap her.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

@kesgardner: Colin Powell is calling for universal health care in the U.S. I really don't think he is still a Republican, regardless of what he claims."

The subtext of this is revealing.

 

[Oblivion]

:/

suffering is cool, it's all good.

Not a big fan of providing aid and comfort to the enemy, yo.

Are you in one of those Red states? Why do you care?

 

[zero shift]

I look at the education ranking threads, and I realize what a complete joke this country is compared to India or South Korea or Singapore or other countries that actually have a functioning society and invest in their future. When they've completed wiped us off our perch and we're subservient to them, I can't say it won't be deserved.

Using India for the education rankings is ridiculous. Its a third world country. Its easy to say you have great school test results when a vast majority of the population is discounted. South Korea, I'm not sure if they use the same "teaching the test" that many other Asian nations use. As for Singapore, well its a city state. Its like the second Shanghai of Eastern Asia. Its were all of the rich businessmen flock too. Its Asia's Liechtenstein. It would be like if Silicon Valley became its own country and saying "Gee this place sure is great, why can't America be like this?"

If you want to use "utopian country" comparisons, then Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and Iceland all are still amongst the top. The furthest democratic left wing countries in the world.

But what's really odd in your comparison is that these countries aren't really libertarian at all. Singapore may be championed as the anti-nanny state, but in the end its a autocracy. The state puts down many strict laws down including such things as having affirmative action-like racial quotas in communities. India is very well known to have a heavy handed state. South Korea is just a nation that recently stepped into the first world and is still riding its tailcoat. I mean in terms of government and business there isn't much unique about it. Its just one of those countries that is the flavor of the decade.

As much as people love to scare people that we will no longer be number one in reality its going to take a really long fucking time to make this country no longer a superpower let alone irrelevant. We have one of the strongest economies (per capita) in the world and have the third largest population. Our rivals population wise are three third world countries that will take time to develop. And even in a world where they do develop we will still be highly significant at worst in a modern Germany kind of way.

 

[Averon]

The subtext of this is revealing.

Powell's been trying to save the GOP from itself for years. And all he got for it is name calling and being "disowned" within GOP circles.

I don't even know why the guy's still trying. Just let the current form of the GOP burn and be there to pick up the pieces to form a newer, more moderate GOP.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Powell's been trying to save the GOP from itself for years. And all he got for it is name calling and being "disowned" within GOP circles.

I don't even know why the guy's still trying. Just let the current form of the GOP burn and be there to pick up the pieces to form a newer, more moderate GOP.

I'm referring to the idea that universal health care is bad.

I do think it's fair to say Powell isn't a Republican anymore.

 

[Metaphoreus]

We're facing real problems in the U.S. (education, underemployment, environment, energy, etc.), yet they choose to focus only on what I can best term as first world issues.

It was when Sirpopopop contrasted them with "real problems in the U.S." that we all knew--knew in our bones--that the expression "first world issues" had well and truly jumped the shark.

 

[speculawyer]

This libertarian streak that's vomiting out of the likes of reddit really unnerves me. We're facing real problems in the U.S. (education, underemployment, environment, energy, etc.), yet they choose to focus only on what I can best term as first world issues. Important yes, but fundamentally less important than the stuff I listed above.

I think the Libertarian view shifts depending on who is more alienated with their normal party.

Lots of Democrats bailed out on the Dems when many felt the Dems were too soft on creating lots of social programs and not being strong military defenders of the nation. The Dem-type libertarians that bail on the Dems like these aspects of Libertarian views:
-More open borders
-Pro-choice
-Against the drug war

But the GOP has been alienating more GOPers in the past decade thus pushing the Libertarian crowd a bit to the right with their additions. The GOP-type libertarians that bail on the GOP like these aspects of the Libertarian views:
-Low taxes
-Pro guns
-Less regulation


I think a lot of young people find the Libertarian views somewhat attractive because it allows them to reconcile many of their views (fine with gays, fine with pot, less foreign wars) with their parent's views (low taxes, fiscal conservatism, etc.).

But I think Libertarian-ism just doesn't work because there is so much internal conflict within its ranks and it is ultimately self-defeating (it ends up providing lots of money to rich people who then use that money to change the rules to the way they like them whether they conform to libertarian ideals or not).

 

[User 250141]

As much as people love to scare people that we will no longer be number one in reality its going to take a really long fucking time to make this country no longer a superpower let alone irrelevant. We have one of the strongest economies (per capita) in the world and have the third largest population. Our rivals population wise are three third world countries that will take time to develop. And even in a world where they do develop we will still be highly significant at worst in a modern Germany kind of way.

Thanks for the encouragement . I definitely agree that the U.S. is destined to remain a powerful country as a whole for quite a while, but I also want that to matter at the level of individual well-being, not just gross GDP.

And it's no surprise that the other countries I mentioned are far from "libertarian"--I think that one of the sources of our current problems in the United States is that the state and society aren't strong enough.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm referring to the idea that universal health care is bad.

I do think it's fair to say Powell isn't a Republican anymore.

Party identification is meaningless. How you vote and what you do matters. He can call himself Republican all he wants . . . but you know he voted for Obama. Heck, I still call myself a Christian . . . despite being an atheist.

 

[speculawyer]

Thanks for the encouragement . I definitely agree that the U.S. is destined to remain a powerful country as a whole for quite a while, but I also want that to matter at the level of individual well-being, not just gross GDP.

And it's no surprise that the other countries I mentioned are far from "libertarian"--I think that one of the sources of our current problems in the United States is that the state and society aren't strong enough.

On the other hand, that is part of our strength. We don't care if people die from treatable diseases or kids get a crap education since we need to spend that money on our 11 carrier groups.

 

[Mario]

The GOP may have backed itself into a corner with the Obamacare hate. They've just gone all out trying to kill it for 4+ years now. But now if a lot of people get insurance through it and like it, they are going to end up with a lot of egg on their face.

Now one might think that might mean a huge disaster for the GOP. And it probably should. Like the pointless Iraq war over stockpiles of WMDs that did not exist and the irrational bigoted gay-bashing, the GOP should have been beat down to almost nothing because of such stupidity. But they never are. Too many people just forget about such bad decisions . . . or still secretly support them. I guess the combo of God, guns, and tax-cuts is just too hard for many to resist.

The difference is the Iraq War and gay-bashing doesn't affect most people directly, at least in a tangible way that they can discern. Healthcare, eventually, affects everyone directly. And many individuals are already publicizing their personal stories on the benefits from it.

And the GOP doubling down on their opposition to the law just now when they perceived a chance to overturn it at the eleventh hour through shutting down the government and then because of the website failures is only helping keep their misguided objection to it fresh in the minds of people as the tide turns and more of the benefits are realized.

The poor website rollout was a major blunder of the administration, but I think it is a real double edged sword for Republicans.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The difference is the Iraq War and gay-bashing doesn't affect most people directly, at least in a tangible way that they can discern. Healthcare, eventually, affects everyone directly. And many individuals are already publicizing their personal stories on the benefits from it.

And the GOP doubling down on their opposition to the law just now when they perceived a chance to overturn it at the eleventh hour through shutting down the government and then because of the website failures is only helping keep their misguided objection to it fresh in the minds of people as the tide turns and more of the benefits are realized.

The poor website rollout was a major blunder of the administration, but I think it is a real double edged sword for Republicans.

i don't think democrats are done with health care either

With those issues remember progressives have solutions for lingering problems in the ACA era high premiums, lack of coverage, etc.