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[Diablos]

nuke ^

Defeat from the jaws of victory?

The Senate won't have the balls to do it.

If that tweet is true, that's a fucking shame. It sets a horrible precedent because while the "minor"" changes to the ACA will happen, on Jan. 31 we go through this all over again, and there won't be any "minor" changes left in regards to the ACA to pursue afaik, so we'll be looking at delaying it as the next hot ticket item for the GOP to fap over in these oh so glorious manufactured crises they love to peddle onto the American people.

Maybe McCain feels like he can show the tea party how to get concessions without being a braindead dick. Basically a "here's how it's done, losers" move.

Regardless, I hope Reid is simply wasting time with this sequester battle. A clean DL and CR should be the main goal. The Collins plan isn't going anywhere, and it's clear republicans won't budge on sequestration unless Reid holds out until the 15th or 16th. I'd rather not do that, and just take the win they played to win in the first place: clean DL and CR.

Yeah right. More like the old senile maverick with an ego is showing off his elder troll status but looks just as stupid. edit: Frankly, he looks dumber because he's been around long enough to know better.

Reid needs to be careful, he doesn't want to try and drag this out too long if he has a few Democrats already on board with the Collins plan. Things could change very quickly and in the worst way if he runs out the clock despite losing support among his own party.

 

[Aaron Strife]

nuke ^



Defeat from the jaws of victory?

One of those senators is not like the others.

 

[Diablos]

Angus Beef Mustache King baby!

 

[KingK]

One of those senators is not like the others.

Klobuchar really wants that medical device tax repeal apparently. The tax is going to be repealed eventually anyway, so I don't exactly know why she's risking fucking up Reid's game-plan over it.

 

[Diablos]

Klobuchar really wants that medical device tax repeal apparently. The tax is going to be repealed eventually anyway, so I don't exactly know why she's risking fucking up Reid's game-plan over it.

Problem is, if it is repealed now it's one less thing to prevent the GOP from getting what they really want later on: delaying the individual mandate.

 

[theprodigy]

One of those senators is not like the others.

hey, your awesome senator is not so awesome huh

 

[KingK]

Problem is, if it is repealed now it's one less thing to prevent the GOP from getting what they really want later on: delaying/defunding the individual mandate.

Yeah I agree. I think the ideal plan would be to use the medical device tax as a concession when trying to to reverse the sequester. It's going away at some point, but there's no strategic reason to get rid of it right now with the shutdown/DL.

 

[speculawyer]

You what will be really funny . . . if the GOP abandons trying to kill Obamacare because they finally realize that he is not going to budge and then they get him to reduce social security through chained CPI or something. Then cranky old Tea partiers don't get Obamacare killed but they get their own social security cut. An ultimate back-fire.

 

[Diablos]

"It's moving. Not sure in what direction," said Reid of the discussions as he walked into the U.S. Capitol building on Sunday morning and was asked how negotiations were progressing.

lol that doesn't sound too confident to me, Harry.

Also:

They remained acutely aware, however, that any solution developed in the Senate will have to be approved by the House and probably very quickly.

"Here's what I'm worried about," Republican Senator Lindsey Graham told ABC's "This Week," "a deal coming out of the Senate that a majority of Republicans can't vote for in the House."

"I'm hopeful that the House can get their act together," Republican Senator Kelly Ayotte said on CBS's "Face the Nation."

I too kind of share with them in that concern: who's to say the GOP will finally have the resolve to vote for this thing? Sure, privately a lot of congressmen have admitted to wanting to vote for something clean/clean-ish, and some 20 have said so publicly, but who is to say they finally will do it? I think so many of them have let their political prospects and how the Tea Party could potentially shatter it stand in the way of preventing the economy from crashing and burning, which will hurt most of these people a lot more outside of the Tea Party friendly districts... why can they not see this?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

It amazes me. Of all the huge issues currently going on at the moment, the republican and tea party focus on veterans memorials.

Not the women and children and babies at risk.

Not the fact that the CDC isn't open and doing it's job

Not the fact that 800,000 people and countless other are directly or indirectly affected.

No. Gotta focus on the vets 'storming' the barricades and stage stupid pictures like the raising of the flag over barriers in front of the White House.

It's fucking disgusting.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

It amazes me. Of all the huge issues currently going on at the moment, the republican and tea party focus on veterans memorials.

Not the women and children and babies at risk.

Not the fact that the CDC isn't open and doing it's job

Not the fact that 800,000 people and countless other are directly or indirectly affected.

No. Gotta focus on the vets 'storming' the barricades and stage stupid pictures like the raising of the flag over barriers in front of the White House.

It's fucking disgusting.

The older you are, the more likely you'll be sympathetic to the GOP. They're just whipping up what they perceive to be a subsection of their base.

 

[Diablos]

The older you are, the more likely you'll be sympathetic to the GOP. They're just whipping up what they perceive to be a subsection of their base.

There's a fine line between "whipping up" the base and a little something called incitement.

Protip: If we default, it's the latter.

Man, Cantor is really a shitstain for designating himself as the ONLY PERSON able to bring up a CR unless he says otherwise.
So much for Republicans loving freedom! HOW MANY MORE EXAMPLES DO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO SEE TO REALIZE THESE PEOPLE ARE INSANE

 

[Unstable]

It amazes me. Of all the huge issues currently going on at the moment, the republican and tea party focus on veterans memorials.

Not the women and children and babies at risk.

Not the fact that the CDC isn't open and doing it's job

Not the fact that 800,000 people and countless other are directly or indirectly affected.

No. Gotta focus on the vets 'storming' the barricades and stage stupid pictures like the raising of the flag over barriers in front of the White House.

It's fucking disgusting.

I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that they're using veterans as political pawns, or that they have such low respect for the American people that they believed it would make us follow blindly besides them.

 

[PhoenixDark]

@JohnJHarwood 26m

Aide: Senate D leaders optimistic of deal after "productive" Reid-McConnell talk. Haggling over length of CR/debt hike but expect to resolve

Reid already shot down the Collins plan and never liked the Vitter amendment, I doubt he'll agree to anything like that with McConnell. And obviously if McConnell is having productive meetings with Reid, it means the sequester stuff has been dropped.

 

[Diablos]

Reid already shot down the Collins plan and never liked the Vitter amendment, I doubt he'll agree to anything like that with McConnell. And obviously if McConnell is having productive meetings with Reid, it means the sequester stuff has been dropped.

Man, I'm so tired of this shit.

I wish we could all go out for drinks

Please end, in the best way possible, and soon.

edit: And what really sucks is we have no reason to believe the GOP will respond positively to this. I'm thinking Wall Street and co. really whipped the establishment into shape but we'll see. All this 'productivity' could be for naught.

 

[teiresias]

Man, I'm so tired of this shit.

I wish we could all go out for drinks

Please end, in the best way possible, and soon.

I'm THIS close to taking up smoking.

 

[KingK]

I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that they're using veterans as political pawns, or that they have such low respect for the American people that they believed it would make us follow blindly besides them.

Even worse is the fact that Republicans are generally the ones to oppose increasing spending on Veteran's benefits.

 

[daedalius]

I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that they're using veterans as political pawns, or that they have such low respect for the American people that they believed it would make us follow blindly besides them.

On another forum I frequent, the veterans charade is working in full swing.

I don't understand how people don't realize they are being so easily manipulated, some of these characters are like some mustache twirling, puppy kicking, scooby doo villians.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that they're using veterans as political pawns, or that they have such low respect for the American people that they believed it would make us follow blindly besides them.

My family ate it up and it's disgusting

"Those brave veterans stormed the barricades and are taking them to the white house"

"Good, Obama is a self righteous prick"

"The house has put so many bills, Obama wants it his way or the highway and is shutting down the government because of it"

I still live at home so I can't do much other than ignore it, otherwise I would call them all fucking dumb cunts and are supporting a terroristic party.

I just can't fucking take it any more.

 

[Diablos]

How can people be so dumb? How?

As a teen I clashed a lot with my parents over them voting for Bush in 2000, but even they were smart enough to realize how much of a fuckup he was by the end of his first term, and voted for Kerry. They've been reliable Democrats ever since and despise the GOP.

Getting duped by a politician is one thing but to consistently eat up the propaganda without being able to think critically about the state of the nation is horrifying.

I'm sorry, lots of veterans died for this country and had it not been for a lot of them our country could be fundamentally different today, I realize that -- but to get enraged over a veteran not being able to walk through a monument or what have you as we are on the brink of default is just so incredibly stupid. People are acting like veterans have been denied all rights granted to other American citizens; like they've been thrown in solitary confinement until a deal is reached; it is ridiculous and has no basis for being a rational argument.

Well, the closed memorials and closed parks are some of the most visible consequences.

Few people ever see the inside of the CDC under any circumstances.

Classic American idiocy. "I HAVE TO SEE IT WORKING TO UNDERSTAND THE EFFECT DERP." Read a few lines about the CDC and what they help protect us against and you should be able to understand why they are just as if not more important than walking down a fucking trail somewhere. Seriously.

 

[speculawyer]

The older you are, the more likely you'll be sympathetic to the GOP. They're just whipping up what they perceive to be a subsection of their base.

Well I'm old and it is not working with me.


And I can't see how things can work with anyone when they are not even self-consistent. Bush came into office with a surplus. He then did tax-cuts. Then the Affgan war. Then more tax-cuts. Then completely pointless expensive Iraq war. And then unfunded Medicare part D. But the time Bush left office, the budget had gone from a surplus to $1Trillion deficits.

And now they want to be viewed as the saviors of fiscal responsibility. WHAT? FFS. They have zero credibility on that. Reagan ran up more debt than every president before him COMBINED. Dick Cheney rolled into office and said "Reagan proved deficits don't matter!" . . . and they want to be viewed as our fiscal saviors. You gotta be fucking kidding me.

It works for crazy people, people's who's self-interests are helped by the GOP view (rich people), and by religious conservatives. and racists.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Everyone wants veterans to be able to see their memorials. That's why the dems want to open the government. Guess who's preventing a vote on it? The GOP and their base want to open everything they like but keep shut the stuff they don't like. Only problem they like everything but need to try this piecemeal stunt.

 

[Diablos]

such resolve
very shutdown
wow
so negotiate

Democrats have been "negotiating" with Republicans since January of 2009 in the form of giving away far too much considering they didn't get nearly enough in return. They're negotiating now, too. Hopefully it'll live up to the true definition of the word, at least more than usual, this time around.

 

[theprodigy]

The older you are, the more likely you'll be sympathetic to the GOP. They're just whipping up what they perceive to be a subsection of their base.

this fallacy has been proven false about a million times by now!

 

[Diablos]

Worth noting:

“We have been involved in productive, bipartisan discussions with Sen. Collins and other Republican senators, but we do not support the proposal in its current form. There are negotiations, but there is no agreement,” the statement said, with Sens. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), Joe Donnelly (D-Ind.), Angus King (I-Maine), Pryor, Klobuchar and Manchin signing on.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/susan-collins-debt-ceiling_n_4094336.html

So at least for right now it seems like they are okay with some parts of Collins' plan, but aren't on board with it yet.

 

[theprodigy]

Worth noting:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/susan-collins-debt-ceiling_n_4094336.html

starting to get convinced Dem senators are just trolling now

 

[PhoenixDark]

Red state dems trying to win a "bipartisan" victory. Meh, Reid will set them straight.

 

[Unstable]

Worth noting:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/susan-collins-debt-ceiling_n_4094336.html

So at least for right now it seems like they are okay with some parts of Collins' plan, but aren't on board with it yet.

Democrats have absolutely no reason to compromise on anything. They have the public opinion on there side and the GOP is imploding as we speak. Their best option is to wait as long as possible to make a deal.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Red state dems trying to win a "bipartisan" victory. Meh, Reid will set them straight.

Lol bet you never thought you'd say that a year ago.

 

[Diablos]

Democrats have absolutely no reason to compromise on anything. They have the public opinion on there side and the GOP is imploding as we speak. Their best option is to wait as long as possible to make a deal.

thus being the reason why there is no agreement, unless they're attempting to temper Reid's expectations...

 

[Clevinger]

So what happened to that whole "We won't negotiate just to reopen the government/pay our bills on time"?

 

[RustyNails]

It disgusts me how socially acceptable it is to plaster the confederate flag everywhere (at least in rural Indiana I see it a lot. On car bumpers, flying on flag poles, etc.)

You should visit inner Georgia some time. There's confederate flags flying from flag masts on highways. They are unashamedly brazen.

 

[thepotatoman]

Worth noting:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/susan-collins-debt-ceiling_n_4094336.html

So at least for right now it seems like they are okay with some parts of Collins' plan, but aren't on board with it yet.

Ok now my brain's shorting out on this one. How are they talking about sequester as law of the land after 2 freaking weeks of talking about defunding Obamacare with nothing in return? How? And this is with Democrats offering sequester all along.

They probably have a point that dems have to give something up to end the sequester, but god damn it, how is their hypocrisy not immediately transparent to everyone?

 

[Black Mamba]

So what happened to that whole "We won't negotiate just to reopen the government/pay our bills on time"?

They're not, still, really.

Ok now my brain's shorting out on this one. How are they talking about sequester as law of the land after 2 freaking weeks of talking about defunding Obamacare with nothing in return? How? And this is with Democrats offering sequester all along.

They probably have a point that dems have to give something up to end the sequester, but god damn it, how is their hypocrisy not immediately transparent to everyone?

Hoyer pointed this out to Boehner's face the other day in a private meeting, apparently.

 

[RustyNails]

One speaker went as far as saying the president was a Muslim and separately urged the crowd of hundreds to initiate a peaceful uprising.

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

.

 

[TacticalFox88]

So....yeah....why haven't we talked about Reid's sudden employ of his titanium balls?

I mean, we're at the point where fucking Reid.....REID is keeping Dems and to some extent Obama in line.

The guy who pussied out on fillibuster who we called a massive failure has brought the GOP to its knees, fucked over the House and Tea Party, and probably going to get a deal that's heavily favorable to Dems.

Twilight Zone, am I in it?

 

[theprodigy]

So....yeah....why haven't we talked about Reid's sudden employ of his titanium balls?

I mean, we're at the point where fucking Reid.....REID is keeping Dems and to some extent Obama in line.

The guy who pussied out on fillibuster who we called a massive failure has brought the GOP to its knees, fucked over the House and Tea Party, and probably going to get a deal that's heavily favorable to Dems.

Twilight Zone, am I in it?

not really, Reid gets a bad rap for things he doesn't deserve

 

[Black Mamba]

So....yeah....why haven't we talked about Reid's sudden employ of his titanium balls?

I mean, we're at the point where fucking Reid.....REID is keeping Dems and to some extent Obama in line.

The guy who pussied out on fillibuster who we called a massive failure has brought the GOP to its knees, fucked over the House and Tea Party, and probably going to get a deal that's heavily favorable to Dems.

Twilight Zone, am I in it?

I actually thought Reid won the filibuster thing and said as much.

Reid caved a bit during the fiscal cliff, but the Dems still won that one.

And Reid will eventually win this one, too.

 

[Diablos]

Robert Costa
‏@robertcostaNRO
Roll Call: "A Graham aide explained he intended to force a Senate vote on the issue"
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/graham-pushes-vitter-amendment-to-any-debt-limit-deal/

smh

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Klobuchar really wants that medical device tax repeal apparently. The tax is going to be repealed eventually anyway, so I don't exactly know why she's risking fucking up Reid's game-plan over it.

Agreed, I don't see why she's doing this now...

 

[soul creator]

does Louie Gohmert ever not look (or say anything) stupid?

I know I know...attack the ideas, not the person. But I swear every time I see this dude he does his best to make sure both the dumb ideas and his look are perfectly in sync. It's like he was bred in a Tea Party laboratory or something.

 

[sc0la]

Subscribing. I hate when this thread moves

 

[gcubed]

So what happened to that whole "We won't negotiate just to reopen the government/pay our bills on time"?

see thread title

 

[Black Mamba]

Sen. Rand Paul said Sunday that Republicans making raising the Social Security retirement a condition of raising the debt ceiling, adding a new twist to the high-wire negotiations over re-opening the federal government and avoiding default.

“I am worried about a government that borrows over a million dollars every minute. And so I think there needs to be some structural reform of our spending or we shouldn’t raise the debt ceiling,” Paul told WABC’s Aaron Klein in an interview airing Sunday night, and shared with BuzzFeed. “And rising the age on social security gradually a couple months a year for younger people is a way to fix the imbalance. It ought to be done probably for Social Security and for Medicare.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jacobfischler/rand-paul-tie-debt-ceiling-to-raising-age-for-social-securit

Eat a bag of dicks, Rand.

 

[AniHawk]

couldn't obama just line veto shit that comes back to him so he only approves of a clean cr+ clean dl raise? not like there would be the votes to override that veto.

it's been a good decade since i've taken a class on government so i don't know how the line veto thing works. or would that not even be something that reaches his desk? but if they're attaching legislation to it then shouldn't it be?

 

[j_k_redtail]

Agreed, I don't see why she's doing this now...

Minnesota is home to a number of medical device manufactures, like Medtronic (maker of prosthetic devices, pacemakers, heart valves, dialysis machines, etc).

 

[gcubed]

couldn't obama just line veto shit that comes back to him so he only approves of a clean cr+ clean dl raise? not like there would be the votes to override that veto.

it's been a good decade since i've taken a class on government so i don't know how the line veto thing works. or would that not even be something that reaches his desk? but if they're attaching legislation to it then shouldn't it be?

line item vetos dont exist anymore

 

[Y2Kev]

How do republicans still dominate old people votes with all this bullshit? Is it misdirection? Or is it just because of black people? Do they bother them that much?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

couldn't obama just line veto what comes back to him so he only approves of a clean cr+ clean dl raise? not like there would be the votes to override that veto.

it's been a good decade since i've taken a class on government so i don't know how the line veto thing works. or would that not even be something that reaches his desk? but if they're attaching legislation to it then shouldn't it be?

The Federal Line Item Veto Act of 1996 was ruled unconstitutional in 1998. No other laws have been approved, though some have been proposed.

 

[speculawyer]

does Louie Gohmert ever not look (or say anything) stupid?

I know I know...attack the ideas, not the person. But I swear every time I see this dude he does his best to make sure both the dumb ideas and his look are perfectly in sync. It's like he was bred in a Tea Party laboratory or something.

Forget his looks . . . listen to him. Holy smokes, he sounds like the stereotype hick idiot.

Actually, it is Virgil Goode who's does it even better . . . . this one cracks me up every time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuf7ZSCJFTE