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PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout

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S

speculawyer

Member
KingK said:
It's literally impossible to convince most people like this to change their views because you can create the most logically sound, fact based, arguments entirely backed up by citations from reputable sources; and they'll just dismiss all of with "well that's just not what I believe."

Politics is a second religion to these people. The Constitution is their second bible and the Republican Party is their clergy, there to interpret the sacred texts and intentions of our Holy Founding Fathers for them.
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Well, when I can get people into that position, I declare victory and end.

I really think that many political disputes could be ended rather quickly if people could just agree upon the facts. But a lot of people just don't like reality and create their own facts. And that is a fundamental problem.


I'm coming to the conclusion that things were easier in politics when we had the three TV networks that all put out news broadcasts that were all basically middle-of-the-road and the same. But now we have have a highly fractured mediaverse and a lot of people are listening to pure unadulterated bullshit. There is bullshit on both sides but the far-right has really gone into fantasyland with massive piles of bullshit so huge that they are barely connected with reality. They really think they are winning with this shutdown . . . hey, just ignore those polls showing the GOP at record lows!
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Tamanon said:
I'm not understanding the push for income verification. Wouldn't the implementation of this cost even more than the plan does now?
Click to expand...

And call me stupid and uninformed, but isn't income verification built in via the tax system? If you get more in subsidies than you qualify for, it affects your tax bill/refund at the end of the year?
 
A

Averon

Member
Given how pissed the House is at the Senate GOP locking them out, I wonder if any compromise bill originating from the Senate could pass it.
 
A

Avon Barksdale

Member
Saw this on Reddit:

aOemqM9.jpg
Click to expand...
 
N

NullPointer

Member
makingmusic476 said:
All people suffer from confirmation bias to some degree, but it's much, much stronger amongst the religious right, because it is a mentality that is openly encouraged by their faith.
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Absolutely. And that mentality was on full display for Steve King's bit on CNN the other day, where it ended with this exchange:

Carol Costello (CNN): Well, I will only say: What did you expect would happen with a partial government shutdown? That nothing would be closed down? That everything that Americans like would remain up and running? Is that what you expected?

Rep. Steve King (R-IA): Whatever I expected there's a right and there's a wrong.
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The full eight and a half minute video is here and I couldn't recommend it more for its pure, unadulterated bubblicious flavor.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Incognito said:
New house offer:

@robertcostaNRO: package (so far): 6-wk DL ext, Lankford bill on shutdowns, income verification for O'care applicants, Vitter amdt
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wtf

Reid needs to pass something better than this and very soon. If the House acts first it could make Democrats look really weak.

At the very least something longer than 6 weeks and without the Vitter Amendment.

Either way, starting to wonder if the House will accept anything from the Senate at this point. All the more reason why Reid needs to move on this asap.
 
J

jamesinclair

Banned
Anyone getting ready to move all their assets into cattle?

Less liquid than cash obviously, but I'd say more stable if we default.

Meat, milk, fuel, transportation....is there anything they can't do?
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
And call me stupid and uninformed, but isn't income verification built in via the tax system? If you get more in subsidies than you qualify for, it affects your tax bill/refund at the end of the year?
Click to expand...
Ah . . . so Obamacare involves the IRS who has been PROVEN to hate conservatives! Those jack-booted thugs will throw all conservatives into jail!
 
K

KingK

Member
Jooney said:
... which is why when people say that the left were just as bad under Bush, I shake my head. The opposition may have not bee perfect but at least they hated on the real guy and the actual real things he did (e.g start a war under false pretenses). The opposition to Obama has gone into cartoon villain ridiculous territory.
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To be fair, there was some batshit ridiculousness on the left (9/11 Truthers, Bush is going to become a dictator, etc.). The difference is that the volume of batshit on the left is exponentially less than the right, they don't have an entire media empire supporting them, and they have no political influence whatsoever.
 
U

Unstable

Member
Riki said:
Republicans want to kill the ACA.
This will help do that.
The harder they can make it for people to get covered, then the quicker they can say that Obama failed the people.
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Bingo. This is where any Republican argument against the ACA fails. If the ACA is so bad, why not let it go up in flames by its self. The act of trying to sabotage the ACA removes any legitimacy the Republican argument had against the ACA.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Incognito said:
New house offer:

@robertcostaNRO: package (so far): 6-wk DL ext, Lankford bill on shutdowns, income verification for O'care applicants, Vitter amdt
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha, and they said the Democrats aren't negotiating in good faith. They need to stop acting like opening the government and raising the DL is a concession. It's not. It's a job requirement.
 
S

Samk

Member
jamesinclair said:
Anyone getting ready to move all their assets into cattle?

Less liquid than cash obviously, but I'd say more stable if we default.

Meat, milk, fuel, transportation....is there anything they can't do?
Click to expand...

Goats, man. Far more fungible than cows. Goat milk is the future
 
J

Jooney

Member
KingK said:
To be fair, there was some batshit ridiculousness on the left (9/11 Truthers, Bush is going to become a dictator, etc.). The difference is that the volume of batshit on the left is exponentially less than the right, they don't have an entire media empire supporting them, and they have no political influence whatsoever.
Click to expand...

9/11 trutherism was not exclusive to the left, and it certainly was not believed by any elected Representative of the Democrat party. It's not a fair comparison at all.
 
K

Karakand

Member
Tamanon said:
I'm not understanding the push for income verification. Wouldn't the implementation of this cost even more than the plan does now?
Click to expand...

If you exist in the Medicaid MAGI bracket but live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid, a way of making yourself eligible for subsidies is over-reporting your income on your tax return. Yes, you would be opening yourself up to paying more in income tax, but for people in this MAGI bracket it would probably still be a net gain to pay some more tax in exchange for subsidies.
 
R

Riki

Member
PhoenixPause said:
If Costa is right about today's protests emboldening the far right, can Boehner even pass a 6 week extension that doesn't include ridiculous Obamacare shit? Regardless the senate needs to act first, then go home. This is going to be on Boehner's hands, and he'll fold.

edit: the Lankford amendment is atrocious
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/13/the-gops-latest-poison-pill/
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This is the part that frustrates me the most. He knows he's done. He knows he'll fail and lose his job.
So stop holding us hostage and do what you know is right.
 
R

ridethepiggy

Banned
Karakand said:
If you exist in the Medicaid MAGI bracket but live in a state that didn't expand Medicaid, a way of making yourself eligible for subsidies is over-reporting your income on your tax return. Yes, you would be opening yourself up to paying more in income tax, but for people in this MAGI bracket it would probably still be a net gain to pay some more tax in exchange for subsidies.
Click to expand...


The folks from the WA exchange have told us to tell this to our customers for those who dont want Medicaid. We refuse since doing so can cost us our license but yea, folks can do it.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Jooney said:
9/11 trutherism was not exclusive to the left, and it certainly was not believed by any elected Representative of the Democrat party. It's not a fair comparison at all.
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Yeah, I agree with this. Bill Maher famously threw truthers out of his own audience. The truther movement is heavily in the Alex Jones sector which is more right-wing than left-wing.

There is some crazy on the left. The Bush will be dictator and not leave office and the anti-GMO stuff can be nutty. But it is one of those situations where the two sides are not close at all to being equal. The crazy racist right-wing militias are just more crazy and dangerous than the nutty Earth Liberation Front people.
 
D

Diablos

Member
PhoenixPause said:
If Costa is right about today's protests emboldening the far right, can Boehner even pass a 6 week extension that doesn't include ridiculous Obamacare shit? Regardless the senate needs to act first, then go home. This is going to be on Boehner's hands, and he'll fold.

edit: the Lankford amendment is atrocious
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/13/the-gops-latest-poison-pill/
Click to expand...
Remains to be seen but I grow less confident by the hour.

Furthermore how can we say with any certainty that Boehner is going to fold? He hasn't to date, and left it to the Senate so he could lay low for a couple days, but that doesn't really inspire my confidence in him to do the right thing.
 
D

Diablos

Member
@robertcostaNRO 3h
My pt w/ RTs of House Rs: populist right, esp Boehner's right flank, isn't eye rolling this wknd's rally, and that matters as deadline nears
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Washington, DC: Where not "eye rolling" a rally means you might just be okay with default.
 
C

CygnusXS

will gain confidence one day
I'm wondering if, say, a 3-month CR at sequester levels, plus a DL raise, would get the job done. It would give them some time to put a budget together, and not be locked into 6 months of sequester spending. Then the Dems can make some concessions to get higher spending levels, win the house in 2014, and reverse all the concessions and raise spending again.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Several polls come out showing Republican popularity at an all time low= no big deal
A couple hundred people show up in Washington for a rally= we are turning this around
 
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