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[Ignatz Mouse]

It's too bad we're at full employment right now. Otherwise, the government could hire as much labor as it needed to get whatever projects it wanted finished as quickly as possible.

Amusing, but if you look at qualified It people, unemployment is really, really low. In fact, even the recession didn't hit It people that hard.

 

[Link]

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/18/2803381/ted-cruz-single-handedly-blocks-fcc-nominee-concerns-elections-transparent/

Classic Teddy. What have you got to hide, buddy?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Perhaps instead of delaying the mandate they could just extend open enrollment. Granted, there are still 164 days left. But it could be extended another 30-45 days if, say, it takes a little over a month for this to be resolved.

I don't think the mandate should be delayed at all. The online exchange is troubling, but it shouldn't kill the mandate. It's a less than ideal rollout, but I have confidence they'll get through this first few months even if it ultimately requires a whole lot more manual work than they budgeted. (Obamacare's blowing a hole in the deficit!)

 

[besada]

Does anyone here actually have liberal leaning parents? it seems no one has ever mentioned this?

My mom is moderate on most issues, liberal on health care. As a thirty years nurse, she's in favor of a single-payer plan.

My dad is dead, so doesn't have many political opinions anymore, but he was a conservative who listened to Rush, while simultaneously being aware that Rush was full of shit. I've never understood that particular fascination. His heart was broken by Richard Nixon, who he campaigned for.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Some dispiriting reports regarding the rollout of the ACA, courtesy of the WSJ and NR.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304410204579142141827109638





http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/361577/assessing-exchanges-yuval-levin



the TL;DR version: fed exchanges are an unmitigated disaster, CMS officials recoiling in disbelief at back end problems affecting both federal and state exchanges, data is not being synchronized between various servers causing headaches for insurers, and a growing concern about the potential for adverse selection spiral.

Given the universally negative response to the (federal) site, at this point I do believe the law is in danger. This is bad, and the end of the year is almost here.

This is a collosal fuck up. There was always going to be a problem with the roll out, or any roll out for that matter. But the website was poorly designed and doesn't fucking work. Nobody figured "gee, let's do some stress tests before releasing this thing"?

Immigration is irrelevant and will not get passed this year. Obama needs to head down to whatever building works on this and ask some questions. And fire some people. A lot of good advice has poured in from coders since the site went live, it's time to try something new.

It's hard to move back the deadline since people have to be covered for 9 months of the year.

 

[Cloudy]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

This is amazing and hopefully it gets more coverage

I happened to turn on the Hannity show on Fox News last Friday evening. “Average Americans are feeling the pain of Obamacare and the healthcare overhaul train wreck,” Hannity announced, “and six of them are here tonight to tell us their stories.” Three married couples were neatly arranged in his studio, the wives seated and the men standing behind them, like game show contestants.

As Hannity called on each of them, the guests recounted their “Obamacare” horror stories: canceled policies, premium hikes, restrictions on the freedom to see a doctor of their choice, financial burdens upon their small businesses and so on.

“These are the stories that the media refuses to cover,” Hannity interjected.

But none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.

I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

 

[besada]

RIP Tom Foley. You were never my favorite, but we could use more like you these days.

 

[Plinko]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

This is amazing and hopefully it gets more coverage

I hope this gets picked up, too, but we know it won't. The Obama administration has to take some blame for how poorly this has been marketed.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Does
anyone here actually have liberal leaning parents? it seems no one has ever mentioned this?

My dad is certainly not conservative but also not liberal. He's as middle of the road as you get. He's also been shaped by a lot that I tell him these days (he often asks me to explain things, in say economic terms). My mom almost doesn't have political opinions.

But most of the 2nd generation friends i have in Cali have liberal parents because, well, it's California.

Can't tell if poli-gaf parents are all conservative or the ones that have non-conservative parents just don't ever mention it.

Dad grew up in Franco's Spain. As liberal as they come. Joined the communist party to spite my grandfather who fought for Franco.

 

[Diablos]

Given the universally negative response to the (federal) site, at this point I do believe the law is in danger. This is bad, and the end of the year is almost here.

This is a collosal fuck up. There was always going to be a problem with the roll out, or any roll out for that matter. But the website was poorly designed and doesn't fucking work. Nobody figured "gee, let's do some stress tests before releasing this thing"?

Immigration is irrelevant and will not get passed this year. Obama needs to head down to whatever building works on this and ask some questions. And fire some people. A lot of good advice has poured in from coders since the site went live, it's time to try something new.

It's hard to move back the deadline since people have to be covered for 9 months of the year.

If we go from today to 30 days from now, we're still kind of in a grace period. Halfway through is the danger zone. A month from now is a clusterfuck.

C'mon Obama, make your ninjas do something.

Did not realize it required 9 months of coverage but that would make sense as nothing would stand in the way of that except for people willing to be fined/technical issues. Welp.

There are so many coders looking for jobs... I'm shocked that given they outsourced a lot of it anyway, they couldn't find the right people. Maybe Obama should pay Google to step in. lol

Obama's priorities should be: Budget/Jobs and fixing healthcare implementation. Everything else is a distant second. Unless he can manage to get back the House next year he might as well just work to find common ground with the GOP, which is a huge undertaking in and of itself, protect his signature accomplishments,

Spoiler

maybe lobby for Ginsberg to retire lol

 

[Randolph Freelander]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

This is amazing and hopefully it gets more coverage

The key is injecting this information inside the media bubble.

So basically it's a lost cause.

 

[rocketknight]

The ninjas are still wrapping up the false flag chemical weapons op in Syria. Be patient.

 

[Fenderputty]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

This is amazing and hopefully it gets more coverage

It's amazing to watch people intentionally hurt themselves over ideological bullshit.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Given the universally negative response to the (federal) site, at this point I do believe the law is in danger. This is bad, and the end of the year is almost here.

This is a collosal fuck up. There was always going to be a problem with the roll out, or any roll out for that matter. But the website was poorly designed and doesn't fucking work. Nobody figured "gee, let's do some stress tests before releasing this thing"?

Immigration is irrelevant and will not get passed this year. Obama needs to head down to whatever building works on this and ask some questions. And fire some people. A lot of good advice has poured in from coders since the site went live, it's time to try something new.

It's hard to move back the deadline since people have to be covered for 9 months of the year.

Haha, shit.

How fucked up would it be if the ACA fails not because of the GOP, but because of the law's inability to deal with technical issues that the Democrats have had three years to address?

If they can't fix this by the end of open enrollment... they might have to... delay the individual mandate.

jesus fucking christ

 

[besada]

I hope this gets picked up, too, but we know it won't. The Obama administration has to take some blame for how poorly this has been marketed.

It's difficult to effectively market something when it's being cross-marketed as the devil. They do deserve some blame, though, for not testing the system better and making sure it had the resources necessary. The best advertisement for ACA should be healthcare.gov. Not only should they have easier sign-ups, they ought to be stealing a play from car insurers and showing signees what comparable plans cost outside of the healthcare.gov markets.

 

[Diablos]

It's difficult to effectively market something when it's being cross-marketed as the devil. They do deserve some blame, though, for not testing the system better and making sure it had the resources necessary. The best advertisement for ACA should be healthcare.gov. Not only should they have easier sign-ups, they ought to be stealing a play from car insurers and showing signees what comparable plans cost outside of the healthcare.gov markets.

That's a great idea.

 

[KingGondo]

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/ins...ine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

This is amazing and hopefully it gets more coverage

I want to bang my head into the wall when I hear tort reform offered as a serious solution for controlling healthcare costs.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I want to bang my head into the wall when I hear tort reform offered as a serious solution for controlling healthcare costs.

Guys if we just do tort reform and cut foreign aid the deficit is solved!

 

[besada]

I want to bang my head into the wall when I hear tort reform offered as a serious solution for controlling healthcare costs.

I want to bang the speaker's/writer's head into the wall when I hear it. All you have to do to quash that idea is to take a look at Texas, where we've already implemented the tort reform most people want, which has had virtually no effect on costs.

It has, on the other hand, made it easy for businesses to figure out how many people they're willing to kill with defective products before they fix them, as it gives them a hard upper number to use in their calculations.

 

[Diablos]

jesus fucking christ

Que?

I want to bang the speaker's/writer's head into the wall when I hear it. All you have to do to quash that idea is to take a look at Texas, where we've already implemented the tort reform most people want, which has had virtually no effect on costs.

It has, on the other hand, made it easy for businesses to figure out how many people they're willing to kill with defective products before they fix them, as it gives them a hard upper number to use in their calculations.

Well that just depressed the shit out of me, thanks.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Was watching Hannity last night as well and besides watching the demon known as Hannity had on a conservative who was claiming that the ACA didn't stop people being from being denied based on preexisting conditions. That people could still be rejected if they had cancer, etc. I wanted to jump through the TV and strangle her.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Que?

Diablos
The Sky is Falling!
(Today, 09:56 AM)

yea...

 

[Aaron Strife]

Que?

just you two, it's like clockwork.

 

[Diablos]

Was watching Hannity last night as well and besides watching the demon known as Hannity had on a conservative who was claiming that the ACA didn't stop people being from being denied based on preexisting conditions. That people could still be rejected if they had cancer, etc. I wanted to jump through the TV and strangle her.

Absolutely disgusting.

How is it legal to even do this on a major news network.

We need a new fairness doctrine. Nothing commie, but at least hold networks accountable if they blatantly lie about something that can be proven without a doubt to be false. I.e. Obamacare denies people with pre-existing conditions.

just you two, it's like clockwork.

Just us two? It is a legitimate concern, we aren't the only two talking about it...

yea...

Oh gtfo I'm more disappointed than anything else. My health insurance is good for at least another year (maybe longer; Highmark is telling me two different things depending on who I talk to) so yeah. Frankly I'm kind of pissed too. Democrats have been getting hammered on the ACA for three years in a row now, but are united in defeniding it which is rare. You'd think they'd have this rollout figured out by now. Not sure how this equates to "The Sky is Falling," but have fun with that I guess.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Given the universally negative response to the (federal) site, at this point I do believe the law is in danger. This is bad, and the end of the year is almost here.

This is a collosal fuck up. There was always going to be a problem with the roll out, or any roll out for that matter. But the website was poorly designed and doesn't fucking work. Nobody figured "gee, let's do some stress tests before releasing this thing"?

Immigration is irrelevant and will not get passed this year. Obama needs to head down to whatever building works on this and ask some questions. And fire some people. A lot of good advice has poured in from coders since the site went live, it's time to try something new.

It's hard to move back the deadline since people have to be covered for 9 months of the year.

I don't want to understate the degree to which this is a colossal fuck up, but we're 18 days in. I give them until mid-November to straighten things up, which would give enough lead time to get critical mass before year end. Sign ups were always going to ramp up as year end approaches.

If we're still having this conversation as December rolls around, yeah. Unbelievable failure, at least for the near term. A year from now? Nah.

 

[Diablos]

I don't want to understate the degree to which this is a colossal fuck up, but we're 18 days in. I give them until mid-November to straighten things up, which would give enough lead time to get critical mass before year end. Sign ups were always going to ramp up as year end approaches.

If we're still having this conversation as December rolls around, yeah. Unbelievable failure, at least for the near term. A year from now? Nah.

Like I said, in another 30 days is when we near clusterfuck territory.

Obama has to get this resolved one way or another. Given what he just fought for he has to realize the importance of this.

 

[Armoured Priest]

How is it legal to even do this on a major news network.

We need a new fairness doctrine. Nothing commie, but at least hold networks accountable if they blatantly lie about something that can be proven without a doubt to be false. I.e. Obamacare denies people with pre-existing conditions.

Its legal because Hannity technically isn't a news program. Its a commentary show, and can be passed off as commentary without factchecking (not saying its not morally reprehensible). Hannity has basically admitted in interviews he's not a journalist.

 

[Diablos]

Its legal because Hannity technically isn't a news program. Its a commentary show, and can be passed off as commentary without factchecking (not saying its not morally reprehensible). Hannity has basically admitted in interviews he's not a journalist.

Meh.

It's on a cable news channel, therefore anything remotely newsworthy should be subject to some kind of fairness rule that at least bans stupid opinions propped up as a facade. If your advertising and logo and news ticker on the screen says "FOX NEWS", welp.

 

[theprodigy]

It's amazing to watch people intentionally hurt themselves over ideological bullshit.

good
let them suffer

 

[Armoured Priest]

Meh.

It's on a cable news channel, therefore anything remotely newsworthy should be subject to some kind of fairness rule that at least bans stupid opinions propped up as a facade. If your advertising and logo and news ticker on the screen says "FOX NEWS", welp.

Oh,, I agree with you completely. That's how FOX News gets away with their campaign of misinformation and outright lying...most of their shows aren't news shows under the FCC, they're commentary (or fall under the same rules as tabloids...again, Rupert Murdoch knows that audience and actively exploits it).

 

[jamesinclair]

That's a great idea.

15 days could save you 15 percent or more on health insurance

 

[theprodigy]

15 days could save you 15 percent or more on health insurance

whoa
a good post from jamesinclair?
*claps*

also lol at Sanky's conspiracy BS in that goldbug thread

 

[empty vessel]

good
let them suffer

They won't, though. Or at least most won't. The drive to save money will eventually overtake their spite. This is in fact the precise mechanism by which entitlement spending becomes entrenched over time. Key, though, is the clarity of the benefit. If it's hidden or obscured somehow, resistance will exist.

 

[TacticalFox88]

15 days could save you 15 percent or more on health insurance

I read that in Dennis Haysbert's voice.

...I'm okay with this.

 

[ridethepiggy]

15 days could save you 15 percent or more on health insurance

Well your batting average just increased from about .050% to around .052%, congrats man!

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm more sympathetic to those folks than spiteful. They're working under false pretenses, thanks to local culture and selective media. They should have our pity, not our spite.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I don't want to understate the degree to which this is a colossal fuck up, but we're 18 days in. I give them until mid-November to straighten things up, which would give enough lead time to get critical mass before year end. Sign ups were always going to ramp up as year end approaches.

If we're still having this conversation as December rolls around, yeah. Unbelievable failure, at least for the near term. A year from now? Nah.

That's a fair point but still, given the deadline it's not a good sign that this thing isn't close to working yet. I think I'm upset largely because we have spent years defending this law, discussing its impact...and for it to be completely borked for two weeks is just depressing. There are people on COBRA right now who might have no choice but to take a chance on the exchanges. But they can't, since it doesn't work. For more than a week people couldn't even window shop the prices, and they still can't easily compare them to alternatives.

I'll hold off going off the reservation again, until mid November I guess. But yea...I am concerned. This would have been the perfect time for positive stories about the rollout, multiple examples of people getting good coverage, etc.

 

[Aylinato]

Que?


Well that just depressed the shit out of me, thanks.

It's true, in Michigan you can't sue drug companies with any class action lawsuits. Right after that passed we had one drug cause 50+ deaths, and since it was only in Michigan no one could sue for wrongful death(which it was their fault)

Fuck Synder.

 

[Diablos]

That's a fair point but still, given the deadline it's not a good sign that this thing isn't close to working yet. I think I'm upset largely because we have spent years defending this law, discussing its impact...and for it to be completely borked for two weeks is just depressing. There are people on COBRA right now who might have no choice but to take a chance on the exchanges. But they can't, since it doesn't work. For more than a week people couldn't even window shop the prices, and they still can't easily compare them to alternatives.

I'll hold off going off the reservation again, until mid November I guess. But yea...I am concerned. This would have been the perfect time for positive stories about the rollout, multiple examples of people getting good coverage, etc.

Excellent point about COBRA. I know some people who could only afford COBRA for a month (or not at all) and had to cancel/hold out but were optimistic about the exchanges, and for people like that this is a really big deal particularly if you don't want to be left uninsured or working an extra shift somewhere just to cover a $500-600+ health insurance premium!

Sometimes they call me about questions, but tbh I don't know how I'd be able to defend the website fucking people over right now.

 

[theprodigy]

They won't, though. Or at least most won't. The drive to save money will eventually overtake their spite. This is in fact the precise mechanism by which entitlement spending becomes entrenched over time. Key, though, is the clarity of the benefit. If it's hidden or obscured somehow, resistance will exist.

yeah, most will probably come around eventually
still though

 

[Diablos]

It's true, in Michigan you can't sue drug companies with any class action lawsuits. Right after that passed we had one drug cause 50+ deaths, and since it was only in Michigan no one could sue for wrongful death(which it was their fault)

Fuck Synder.

That is horrible...

If I ever leave PA, I'm going to a solid blue state (so, northeast or west coast). Some of the state-level stuff happening (including here in PA) is just absolutely terrifying, from the lack of protecting the health of citizens, treating employees like shit, voters' rights, etc...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

It's true, in Michigan you can't sue drug companies with any class action lawsuits. Right after that passed we had one drug cause 50+ deaths, and since it was only in Michigan no one could sue for wrongful death(which it was their fault)

Fuck Synder.

Link or drug name?

Genuinely curious.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's true, in Michigan you can't sue drug companies with any class action lawsuits. Right after that passed we had one drug cause 50+ deaths, and since it was only in Michigan no one could sue for wrongful death(which it was their fault)

Fuck Synder.

I thought he was a benevolent nerd

 

[Doc Holliday]

 

[Doc Holliday]

Question...

Are websites the only way to sign into ACA? Can you go somewhere and sign in person like the old days?

 

[Aylinato]

Link or drug name?

Genuinely curious.

http://www.freep.com/article/20130919/NEWS06/309190039/

It was only a steroid, and they said they would make restrictions, but nothing has come about it because Synder wanted drug companies to use Michigan as their experiment area.

Sigh.



I was off by 10 deaths too.
So 60 instead of 50.



It's also not the first outbreak/series of deaths related to drugs that people in Michigan couldn't sue over.

 

[ridethepiggy]

Question...

Are websites the only way to sign into ACA? Can you go somewhere and sign in person like the old days?

You can have a navigator meet you in person. There isn't a paper app nor can you sign up over the phone.

P.S. Hannity still refers to Katherine Sebellius as Katherine 'Death Panel' Sebellius. It's amazing.

 

[GhaleonEB]

That's a fair point but still, given the deadline it's not a good sign that this thing isn't close to working yet. I think I'm upset largely because we have spent years defending this law, discussing its impact...and for it to be completely borked for two weeks is just depressing. There are people on COBRA right now who might have no choice but to take a chance on the exchanges. But they can't, since it doesn't work. For more than a week people couldn't even window shop the prices, and they still can't easily compare them to alternatives.

I'll hold off going off the reservation again, until mid November I guess. But yea...I am concerned. This would have been the perfect time for positive stories about the rollout, multiple examples of people getting good coverage, etc.

I read earlier this week that Medicare Part D literally didn't work for six weeks after it launched. Not an excuse, but it shows that a spectacularly bad launch, even one that lasted for a while, will be long forgotten once the problems are resolved.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Question...

Are websites the only way to sign into ACA? Can you go somewhere and sign in person like the old days?

My understanding is that you can still shop plans on your own from your various local providers and still qualify for subsidies, the exchange would have just made the whole thing easier.

That said, I just priced a simple quote from my former insurer (Blue Cross Blue Shield NC) and the rates I got were horrible. The lowest priced plan was $247 per month (with me as the only one on it), and when I was buying my own insurance through them last year (HSA-based), it was under $100 per month. Hopefully, the exhange (when working) will show some better rates for consumers.

 

[ridethepiggy]

I read earlier this week that Medicare Part D literally didn't work for six weeks after it launched. Not an excuse, but it shows that a spectacularly bad launch, even one that lasted for a while, will be long forgotten once the problems are resolved.

TBH, the that fact we live in 24/7/365 media coverage and social media is what is hurting the rollout even more. If this was 20 years ago it would just be considered a slow rollout. Now we have all sides screaming from the heaven how it's broken, how it should be delayed, how it's an embarrassment, etc. I am shocked that ANYONE actually expected it to be a smooth rollout. 18 days isn't enough time to make a decision.

My understanding is that you can still shop plans on your own from your various local providers and still qualify for subsidies, the exchange would have just made the whole thing easier.

That said, I just priced a simple quote from my former insurer (Blue Cross Blue Shield NC) and the rates I got were horrible. The lowest priced plan was $247 per month (with me as the only one on it), and when I was buying my own insurance through them last year (HSA-based), it was under $100 per month. Hopefully, the exhange (when working) will show some better rates for consumers.

You can shop plans directly from the local providers but you can't get the subsidies applied without going through the exchange. Usually the exchanges have the same prices as off the exchange the only difference is the subsidies will lower the cost if the person qualifies. At least that is the case with my company's plans.