Support NeoGAF

[empty vessel]

Defund Obamacare
Vote no on Immigration
Vote no on Health Care
Vote no on anything

Those are demands. Even end the war, that you can determine when its achieved.

So tax the rich is not a demand? Hold financial executives liable is not a demand? Student debt relief is not a demand? All you have done is list vague ideas that you know extreme conservatives support. You don't really know what any specific tea party demands are. But the point is that you don't have to for them to be effective. You know full well what OWS stood for, assuming you were old enough to be paying any attention at the time, just like you know full well what the tea party stands for, even if you don't actually know any of their specific demands.

Don't agree with either. It wasn't feared and it surely wasn't violently repressed.

Those streams of NYPD blue weren't figments of your imagination. They were actually there. The protesters were physically removed from their peaceable assembly on public property and otherwise repeatedly and consistently physically assaulted by State forces. You can disagree with reality all you want, but that only makes you delusional, it doesn't alter the world as it exists.

 

[eBay Huckster]

And your making excuses for OWS's incompetence, they had a few months in the park before they were expelled.

And every single one of the other movements you name were active for more than 40 years before they saw any real policy influence (particularly labour and POC).

 

[Aylinato]

Defund Obamacare




Don't agree with either. It wasn't feared and it surely wasn't violently repressed.

*looks around*


where the fuck have you been?

Tear gassed, tasered, riot squad police put against them, bear mace(i believe california's OWS had that against them), I cant even name all of them off hand for Christ's sake.

 

[thepotatoman]

I don't think anyone ever cowered in fear from Occupy Wall Street, unless you include the stench coming out of the park.

I don't know about that.

"I'm so scared of this anti-Wall Street effort. I'm frightened to death," said Frank Luntz, a Republican strategist and one of the nation's foremost experts on crafting the perfect political message. "They're having an impact on what the American people think of capitalism."

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/republicans-being-taught-talk-occupy-wall-street-133707949.html

Not to mention how Bloomberg and the NYPD were so aggressive in trying to end them.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

It seems like more than a few would-be progressives have adopted Manos logic with regard to fledgling movements like OWS.

"Until it's successful, it sucks and is stupid and it's not worth my time."

Which is why any progressive movement is going to have a hard time getting off the ground.

 

[Piecake]

Those streams of NYPD blue weren't figments of your imagination. They were actually there. The protesters were physically removed from their peaceable assembly on public property and otherwise repeatedly and consistently physically assaulted by State forces. You can disagree with reality all you want, but that only makes you delusional, it doesn't alter the world as it exists.

Saying that the movement was violently suppressed implies that the movement was squashed/crushed by that violence. I dont think thats the case. Was their violence against protesters? Sure, but I think it mostly just petered out on its own, mostly because it got cold and there was no organization beyond sitting in the park

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Those streams of NYPD blue weren't figments of your imagination. They were actually there. The protesters were physically removed from their peaceable assembly on public property and otherwise repeatedly and consistently physically assaulted by State forces. You can disagree with reality all you want, but that only makes you delusional, it doesn't alter the world as it exists.

They weren't 'violently oppressed'.They were removed from one park they were living in. Nobody said they couldn't protest elsewhere or at other times.

They were being really crappy neighbors to the community around the park the right to protest doesn't lessen other peoples rights not to be verbally assaulted, living next to people defecating in a park, etc. Removing people from a park when they don't want to leave usually requires a bit of force but its not 'violent oppression'.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

"Until it's successful, it sucks and is stupid and it's not worth my time."

Which is why any progressive movement is going to have a hard time getting off the ground.

Nah, Its this false victimization and elevation of their place in history I have a problem with.

Things like the fast food workers strikes, immigration reform rallies, anti-syria strike rallies, the moral mondays, the recall and protests in Madison are tangible things. I don't support all of them but they actually stand for things. There were periphery groups that did real concrete things.
OWS was a bunch of hipsters, anarchists and the organized left in NYC.

And every single one of the other movements you name were active for more than 40 years before they saw any real policy influence (particularly labour and POC).

Absolutely not true. They didn't fix everything right away but they were a constant drumbeat for progress and had man real and tangible actions in their early years.

 

[Servizio]

Theoretically, there might be greasemonkey scripts to bypass WaPo and NYTs "You've reached your article limit" pop ups.

Theoretically.

 

[thepotatoman]

Guardian: Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy

Also, while I'm at it, one more quote from Republican Rep. Peter King who was scared by OWS too.

"[W]e have to be careful not to allow this to get any legitimacy," he warned. "I'm taking this seriously in that I'm old enough to remember what happened in the 1960s when the left-wing took to the streets and somehow the media glorified them and it ended up shaping policy," he said. "We can't allow that to happen."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/peter-king-occupy-wall-street_n_1000318.html

 

[makingmusic476]

They weren't 'violently oppressed'.They were removed from one park they were living in. Nobody said they couldn't protest elsewhere or at other times.

They were being really crappy neighbors to the community around the park the right to protest doesn't lessen other peoples rights not to be verbally assaulted, living next to people defecating in a park, etc. Removing people from a park when they don't want to leave usually requires a bit of force but its not 'violent oppression'.

I paid close attention to the daily happenings in NYC and Oakland via streams when OWS was at its height.

Cops everywhere, arrests rampant, damn near rioting in Oakland. On the day of the 32,000 person march in NYC, police spent most of the morning trying to trap protesters within Zuccoti Park, but eventually the crowds became so overwhelming that they had to let them wander around the city.

I mean, c'mon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpO-lJr2BQY

 

[thepotatoman]

Nah, Its this false victimization and elevation of their place in history I have a problem with.

Things like the fast food workers strikes, immigration reform rallies, anti-syria strike rallies, the moral mondays, the recall and protests in Madison are tangible things. I don't support all of them but they actually stand for things. There were periphery groups that did real concrete things.
OWS was a bunch of hipsters, anarchists and the organized left in NYC.


Absolutely not true. They didn't fix everything right away but they were a constant drumbeat for progress and had man real and tangible actions in their early years.

Wow, you're really beginning to stretch now. Down to simple name calling and technicalities. "early years" is still a longer time frame then the one month it took for everyone, including liberals, to criticize OWS into oblivion.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Guardian: Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy

I don't see this great conspiracy to violently oppress them. I see an attempt to understand a new group they do this to right wing groups too. Even with their super evil research they let them protest and get into the news. This isn't Orwellian or some police state. It doesn't matter though, their is already the built in narrative that the state and the evil bankers are in cohorts to get them.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Wow, you're really beginning to stretch now. Down to simple name calling and technicalities. "early years" is still a longer time frame then the one month it took for everyone, including liberals, to criticize OWS into oblivion.

I really am flabbergasted at the self importance of OWS thinking they're something their not.

Since this started with discussion with the Economist editorial I'll end it with saying these posts show exactly why they were write. Its not tahir, its not the civil rights movement, its not a revolution. Its an extension of the failed anti-capitalists protests of the 90s. Its not the progressive movement it was a protest organized by an anti-capitalists canadian magazine and supported by an small group of people. Its now been ret-coned to be the entire progressive movement which its not.

 

[Angry Fork]

Pro-capitalist doesn't like anti-capitalist movement.

Patriot defender of US government who ignores historical evidence of the last century defends the FBI, NSA, CIA.

Shocking.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Pro-capitalist doesn't like anti-capitalist movement.

Patriot defender of US government who ignores historical evidence of the last century defends the FBI, NSA, CIA.

Shocking.

Anticapitialist ignores history and facts when he defends horrible regimes, violence, totalitarianism in the name of opposing the great evil US.

Spoiler

do you see how silly that description is?

I'm proud to be a capitalist and American and not buying into mass hysteria about those agency is bad? It's not like I don't have my criticisms of certain actions. People can not paint with a broad brush and understand the world is full of complexity and shades of grey. And they can oppose OWS without being evil.

Edit: this rigid loyalty reminds me a lot of the tea party

 

[Aylinato]

Anticapitialist ignores history and facts when he defends horrible regimes, violence, totalitarianism in the name of opposing the great evil US.

Spoiler

do you see how silly that description is?

I'm proud to be a capitalist and American and not buying into mass hysteria about those agency is bad? It's not like I don't have my criticisms of the certain actions. People can not paint with a broad brush and understand the world is full of complexity and shades of grey. And they can oppose OWS without being evil.

It's cool claiming to be a proud capitalit in America. Too bad for you America is a mixed market economy and not strictly capitalist. Mass hysteria regarding the complete destruction of our civil liberties? Man, you must be a plant by a federal agency to "lol" to people making valid critisms against the violation of American citizens rights according to the Bill of Rights

 

[Chichikov]

They weren't 'violently oppressed'.They were removed from one park they were living in. Nobody said they couldn't protest elsewhere or at other times.

They were being really crappy neighbors to the community around the park the right to protest doesn't lessen other peoples rights not to be verbally assaulted, living next to people defecating in a park, etc. Removing people from a park when they don't want to leave usually requires a bit of force but its not 'violent oppression'.

They were peacefully assembling to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, and I'm pretty sure the bill of rights doesn't guarantee you the right to not be verbally abused.
Also, if some people were breaking the law (and let me promise you, the vast majority weren't) those individuals should've been dealt with, you don't deny people their first amendment rights just because someone in their vicinity is misbehaving.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

It's cool claiming to be a proud capitalit in America. Too bad for you America is a mixed market economy and not strictly capitalist. Mass hysteria regarding the complete destruction of our civil liberties? Man, you must be a plant by a federal agency to "lol" to people making valid critisms against the violation of American citizens rights according to the Bill of Rights

And I support mixed market economy, and regulation.. . I also support socialized medical insurance. I even don't really mind that the government has a monopoly on intercity rail in the US. Capitalist can support a strong public sector. It's just the belief that most economic decisions belong in private hands.

I disagree with the complete destruction of our civil liberties line. There have been tremendous over reaches with the intelligence community that need to be fixed. It's not a complete destruction of privacy or our civil liberties.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

A complete capitalist system is absurd. I think we figured out from the late 1800's until the 1940's. So sad, that most people ignore or take the wrong things away from that era (inflation hawks, deficit hawks). The public side is only a symbiosis to the private side.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

A complete capitalist system is absurd. I think we figured out from the late 1800's until the 1940's.

I don't even know people who argue for such a system.

 

[Videoneon]

Its now been ret-coned to be the entire progressive movement which its not.

I don't think Occupy aligns itself with Progressives. I think its spirit is more radical.

In fact I remember seeing some ideological polls of random members once citing some as Democrat, Green, Socialist, and even some Republicans. Progressives like the things they bring attention to, so Occupy interests/interested them.

Nah, Its this false victimization and elevation of their place in history I have a problem with.

Things like the fast food workers strikes, immigration reform rallies, anti-syria strike rallies, the moral mondays, the recall and protests in Madison are tangible things. I don't support all of them but they actually stand for things. There were periphery groups that did real concrete things.

OWS was a bunch of hipsters, anarchists and the organized left in NYC.

They did indeed stand for things. "We are the 99%."

Its primary rallying call was against income inequality, alongside other things like the power of moneyed interests in government (I also want to say there's an anti-Globalization undercurrent to Occupy, but I'm not sure), and student loans (during Occupy's inception/heyday concerns about a loan "bubble" were floated around the news media.) It was a collective action group that spawned assemblies across nations and even attracted older people. I think the earliest Occupiers were younger but older people joined later. It wasn't a bunch of shithead college dropouts with nothing better to do but get on the cool-radical-left-miscreant bandwagon. Certainly not all of them, and nowhere to the degree that it subverts the message of the group, nor its propagation.

And did you not hear about Rolling Jubilee?

If you acknowledge that individual Occupy movements have been forced out by police (through dubious claims of violence/hooliganism, public disturbance or by improper use of public property), and you acknowledge they actually stood for a variety of things, there's no reason to be apprehensive.

edit: originally for "cool radical left miscreant" i used radical chic, but apparently that term is more appropriate for to describe the well-to-do who use the radical-ness for social purposes, and not in a demographically broad way like the spread of Che Guevara's image

 

[Black Mamba]

I don't even know people who argue for such a system.

uh, ever use the internet? It is riddled with anarcho-capitalists.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

uh, ever use the internet? It is riddled with anarcho-capitalists.

I guess not enough.

 

[Clevinger]

welp, say goodbye to Sanky Panky

and there goes my prediction that we'd see him turn into a full on liberal in a year's time

:/

edit: And all this time I thought his name was Sandy Panky...

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Yeah, even if off the internet, young college kids and especially STEM majors do for a while, then they go into real life after college. Most of the dudes I knew that were Ron Paul fans realized that after being employed in the public sector.

welp, say goodbye to Sandy Panky

and there goes my prediction that we'd see him turn into a full on liberal in a year's time

:/

Um, I hope I'm not next. I said stuff in that thread ( mostly against the campaign). I'm a not a douche, I swear!

 

[Baraka in the White House]

welp, say goodbye to Sanky Panky

and there goes my prediction that we'd see him turn into a full on liberal in a year's time

:/

edit: And all this time I thought his name was Sandy Panky...

Need deets. What'd he do?

 

[Videoneon]

I guess not enough.

There's a subreddit for it. it sometimes gets shortened to ancap. It may be worth browsing if you want to get acquainted.

 

[Black Mamba]

This is pretty much the only forum without a determined political lean that I've encountered that has virtually no anarcho-capitalists.

Everywhere else can get maddening.

 

[theprodigy]

This is pretty much the only forum without a determined political lean that I've encountered that has virtually no anarcho-capitalists.

Everywhere else can get maddening.

eh what?

 

[Black Mamba]

eh what?

By "determined," I mean the website itself determines it. Like, a tea party forum or DailyKos Forum or a Ron Paul Forum.

GAF has an obvious lean; I'm referring to websites targeting a specific lean rather than ones that just happen to have one.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

When it comes to a lot of science, that lean can get uh, rather vague. Even with social sciences and stuff like welfare and foodstamps. I find it odd that such people are somewhat disinclined when it comes to hard science such as GMO's, gluten sensitivity and USDA/ FDA stances and dismal of "alternative" and rather bogus science. I think a medium here is much welcomed.


I kinda hope to achieve this. Being politics and economics my interests with science being my goal.

 

[East Lake]

welp, say goodbye to Sanky Panky

and there goes my prediction that we'd see him turn into a full on liberal in a year's time

:/

edit: And all this time I thought his name was Sandy Panky...

RIP Sanky

My shadow banking firm is rolling in fiat fake money. He was our greatest foe.

 

[Karakand]

Who is going to link Zero Hedge now?

 

[Diablos]

I hate to say it but wouldn't you agree that the stage was set for a logan upset?

Special election on a Wednesday and shitty weather on the day of the vote. If it wasn't for the fact that the GOP was in the headlines for the shutdown it could have been an upset.

Nah. It might have been closer but not an upset.

 

[Manmademan]

I hate to say it but wouldn't you agree that the stage was set for a logan upset?

Special election on a Wednesday and shitty weather on the day of the vote. If it wasn't for the fact that the GOP was in the headlines for the shutdown it could have been an upset.

absolutely not. NJ is a reliably blue state when it comes to things like that. They hadn't elected a republican senator since 1972.

Booker also had incredibly high likability and name recognition. Lonegan was going to get blown out no matter what he did. In fact it's speculated that Christie called the special election to keep the increased turnout from dems coming out for booker from affecting HIS re-election chances.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Absolutely not true. They didn't fix everything right away but they were a constant drumbeat for progress and had man real and tangible actions in their early years.

Both movements I highlighted had their "early years" come in the mid-to-late 19th century (Commonwealth v. Hunt and the entire existence of the Radical Republican bloc, respectively), and you're absolutely kidding yourself if you say the civil rights movement was "a constant drumbeat for progress" or "had many real and tangible results" until at least 1915 (to say nothing about labour's pace, or the number of anticapitalists in that movement prior to the First Red Scare).

Not that this matters, because like thepotatoman already said, even taking five years to see results still outpaces the six months people like you gave Occupy to come up with anything at all.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Need deets. What'd he do?

Unless it was something very specific, I figure it was from him constantly skirting around major holes in his arguments.

There's only so many times you can dodge criticisms before it looks like you're doing it on purpose.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Eh @ the jobs report 150,000, 7.2%. At least august was upwardly revised. October's is gonna be interesting.

Obamacare though doing its best to destroy full time work

 

[BertramCooper]

Kasich did the right thing, and will save his state a lot of money. He's one of the few 2010 GOP governors who realizes that tea party shit isn't going to work again. Luckily his approval ratings are still pretty bad.

The Ohio GOP is so fucked up right now, in spite of being in control of pretty much everything.

Kasich shouldn't have too much difficulty getting the nomination, but there will certainly be a Tea Party challenger to make things interesting.

FitzGerald seems like a solid dude, but I kinda wish Jennifer Brunner would have run. Ohio is long overdue for a female governor.

 

[Hitokage]

This is pretty much the only forum without a determined political lean...

Because that would require stated policy.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Absolutely great read on the Obama-Reid partnership during the Gov Shutdown standoff:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/obama-reid_n_4136996.html

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

For all the talk about how OWS failed, there's one thing they deserve crewdit for, and it's huge.

They pretty much single-handedly revived the wage inequality and fairness discussion in this country. There was no mainstream national discussion about this until them. The national tenor was one of :every man for himself/free markets gotta be free" and now there's more serious talk about the matter.

 

[Aylinato]

Eh @ the jobs report 150,000, 7.2%. At least august was upwardly revised. October's is gonna be interesting.

Obamacare though doing its best to destroy full time work

The link and your title for the link are polar opposites.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Who is going to link Zero Hedge now?

For every inflation hawk that goes, another replaces it.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Eh @ the jobs report 150,000, 7.2%. At least august was upwardly revised. October's is gonna be interesting.

Obamacare though doing its best to destroy full time work

Oh good, now Obama can finally win reelection.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The link and your title for the link are polar opposites.

I know

 

[bonercop]

Absolutely great read on the Obama-Reid partnership during the Gov Shutdown standoff:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/obama-reid_n_4136996.html

Obama unsure if Reid had as much control over his Senate Democratic caucus as he liked to say.

lol, I wonder if this is because Summers' nomination got tanked by senate dems.

 

[teiresias]

Absolutely great read on the Obama-Reid partnership during the Gov Shutdown standoff:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/obama-reid_n_4136996.html

It was a painful jab at Reid, who takes pride in his ability to hold his broad caucus . . .

"If you're ever wondering if I can hold my caucus, just ask me," he told Obama.

I just burst out laughing at work! Haha.

 

[ivysaur12]

This is a real Obamacare ad in Colorado.

More like Brobamacare.