BuzzFeed News: David Axelrod wrote in his book that you hated and werent good at, he said, bullshitting about your position on marriage in 08. Why did you feel you had to do it?
Obama: Well, you know, I think David is mixing up my personal feelings with my position on the issue. I always felt that same-sex couples should be able to enjoy the same rights, legally, as anybody else, and so it was frustrating to me not to, I think, be able to square that with what were a whole bunch of religious sensitivities out there. So my thinking at the time was that civil unions which I always supported was a sufficient way of squaring the circle. That, OK, we wont call it marriage, well call it civil unions, same-sex couples will have the same rights as anybody else, but the word marriage with its religious connotations historically would be preserved for marriages between men and women. Where my evolution took place was not in my attitude toward same-sex couples, it was in understanding the pain and the sense of stigma that was being placed on same-sex couples who are friends of mine, where theyd say, You know what, if youre not calling it marriage, it doesnt feel like the same thing. Even if you gave me the same rights, the fact that Im being treated differently or the love that we feel is somehow segmented off, that hurts. It was because of those conversations that I ended up shifting positions, that civil unions, in fact, were not sufficient rather than marriage. But I think the notion that somehow I was always in favor of marriage per se isnt quite accurate. What I was in favor of is making sure that
BuzzFeed News: Despite that old questionnaire?
Obama: Well, yeah. The old questionnaire, you know, is an example of struggling with what was a real issue at the time, which is how do you make sure that peoples rights are enjoyed and these religious sensitivities were taken into account? You know, these are the kinds of things you learn as you
move forward in public life: that sometimes you cant split the difference. That sometimes you just have to be very clear that this is whats right. And what Im very proud of is to see how rapidly the country has shifted and maybe the small part that Ive played, but certainly my Justice Department and others have played, in this administration in getting to where we need to be.