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[NeoXChaos]

I hate the "If we lose the next presidential election people will realize how bad the Republicans are and we can elect communists!" mindset. That shit never works. After Reagan and Bush we got Clinton, one of the most decidedly centrist presidents in a long time. Bush II basically resulted in this - we got Obama who's the most liberal president America could reasonably be expected to elect in this era. But the ones who bring this up are the ones who bitch about Obama being a secret Republican.

The *only* advantage might be less brutal midterms, but who the hell cares? In fifty years no history book is going to talk about what Republicans in Congress did, they're going to talk about the Obama presidency and the Clinton (or Walker or Bush) presidency, for better or worse and the parties will own those legacies.

So sacrifice congress for the presidency? or sacrifice the presidency for congress?

Which one do you think in the long term will be able to implement progressive ideas?

Both arguably are hard to swallow with today's toxic political environment.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The Lexington Dispatch has issued a correction:

Much more believable.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

 

[eBay Huckster]

So sacrifice congress for the presidency? or sacrifice the presidency for congress?

patiently wait a few more years and have both?

 

[Jooney]

The Lexington Dispatch has issued a correction:

It's about ethics in biblical journalism.

 

[Ecotic]

So sacrifice congress for the presidency? or sacrifice the presidency for congress?

Which one do you think in the long term will be able to implement progressive ideas?

Both arguably are hard to swallow with today's toxic political environment.

If you can only have one you choose the Presidency over Congress every time. The President controls Supreme Court nominations, foreign policy, the agencies (to a degree), has comparable power over legislation due to the veto power, and can more effectively steer the national conversation than the Speaker or Majority Leader.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Dunno how anyone could watch the last 14 years and say they'd rather have the house/senate than the presidency.

 

[Ecotic]

Dunno how anyone could watch the last 14 years and say they'd rather have the house/senate than the presidency.

I read a half decent argument not long ago that had Obama lost in 2008 then Democrats probably would have gained veto override majorities in the House and Senate in 2010 and could have passed whatever they wanted, gotten their way on foreign policy, and dictated who the Supreme Court nominees were to be.

I mean, possibly that could have happened, but that's gambling an awful lot on the hope that Democrats could have been united and disciplined enough to pass single-payer and whatever else with dozens and dozens of Blue Dogs in the caucus. It was also a once in a generation moment to have the chance at getting veto override majorities, and not a strategy to use 95% of the time.

 

[Aaron Strife]

So sacrifice congress for the presidency? or sacrifice the presidency for congress?

Which one do you think in the long term will be able to implement progressive ideas?

Both arguably are hard to swallow with today's toxic political environment.

Presidency is absolutely more important. The executive branch can accomplish plenty on their own. The president also appoints justices which in today's environment means the judicial branch can also be influenced. Like what, over half of the active justices are Obama appointees? That's going to have repercussions for a long time. Yes you do need the Senate to confirm but only in extreme cases does that not happen... Plus there's a decent enough chance the Democrats will win the Senate back in 2016.

Consider this - the Democrats had a huge House majority during all of Reagan's presidency. Both houses during his last two years and all of Bush's presidency. This didn't amount to much in the way of actual progressive policy. They blocked Bork (who died recently anyway) and got Americans with Disabilities Act passed.

That's not to say Congress isn't important, I just see it more as a consolation prize.

 

[NeoXChaos]

If you can only have one you choose the Presidency over Congress every time. The President controls Supreme Court nominations, foreign policy, the agencies (to a degree), has comparable power over legislation due to the veto power, and can more effectively steer the national conversation than the Speaker or Majority Leader.

Even with that, nothing passes in Congress that is remotely popular by the american people.

Can we really afford another 8 years of this back and forth fighting between Hillary for arguments sake and the Republican Congress?

 

[RustyNails]

CNN: 57% disapprove of Obama's handling of ISIS
57% disapprove of his handling of foreign affairs
54% disapprove of his handling of terrorism
58% say our fight with ISIS is going badly
47% now say we need to deploy ground troops (up from 44% last november).


And this is how republicans will win presidential elections.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Even with that, nothing passes in Congress that is remotely popular by the american people.

Can we really afford another 8 years of this back and forth fighting between Hillary for arguments sake and the Republican Congress?

I would much rather have that than 8 years of back and forth fighting between Jeb Bush or Scott Walker, their Republican House and a moderately Democratic Senate.

We're not getting vetoproof majorities anytime soon.

 

[HylianTom]

I'm dropping-in between parades to leave something with you all..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcrcNtVAxc

Almost five hours of CNN Election Night 1996. I fell asleep watching it a few nights ago. An amazing trip back to one (very drunken) night during my college years.

A few points that stuck-out with me:
- Florida is one of the first states to be called - wow!
- Louisiana with two Democratic senators?!
- How emphatically centrist the Clinton team's language/messaging was
- I now remember wanting to have Bill Schneider's job so badly in high school..

The Clinton team's language makes me wonder if/when we'll ever see the GOP seek to moderate itself in order to become electorally competitive again. They have a base that's much less compliant with such efforts - many of them literally think that they're on a mission from God and that compromise is therefore evil. Should be interesting to watch.

Makes for great bedtime viewing. I think as we draw closer to the election, I'm going to try to amass one megapost of past Election Nights, if possible. Perhaps this is overly politics-geeky, but I'd buy DVDs of this kind of footage if it were available.

 

[Ecotic]

Even with that, nothing passes in Congress that is remotely popular by the american people.

Can we really afford another 8 years of this back and forth fighting between Hillary for arguments sake and the Republican Congress?

Hey, it'll suck, but that would still be enough to keep pulling the country leftward. Hillary + a Republican House/Democratic Senate after 2016 is about as optimal an outcome as they get at the moment.

I'm dropping-in between parades to leave something with you all..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcrcNtVAxc

Makes for great bedtime viewing. I think as we draw closer to the election, I'm going to try to amass one megapost of past Election Nights, if possible. Perhaps this is overly politics-geeky, but I'd buy DVDs of this kind of footage if it were available.

I watch election nights on youtube sometimes, it's entertaining. I watched the Super Tuesday 2008 coverage not long ago, and it was funny how many CNN commentators kept saying "whoever wins California tonight will be seen as tonight's winner". Only Wolf pointed out that they'd probably split the delegates.

Watching election night 2000 over again though is painful as fuck.

 

[PhoenixDark]

CNN: 57% disapprove of Obama's handling of ISIS
57% disapprove of his handling of foreign affairs
54% disapprove of his handling of terrorism
58% say our fight with ISIS is going badly
47% now say we need to deploy ground troops (up from 44% last november).


And this is how republicans will win presidential elections.

All it's going to take is one minor attack here for people to really go insane. And perhaps to sink Obama's presidency/hurt Hillary.

That being said, I don't think ISIS is a threat to the US, nor do I support military engagement against them.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm dropping-in between parades to leave something with you all..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcrcNtVAxc

Almost five hours of CNN Election Night 1996. I fell asleep watching it a few nights ago. An amazing trip back to one (very drunken) night during my college years.

A few points that stuck-out with me:
- Florida is one of the first states to be called - wow!
- Louisiana with two Democratic senators?!
- How emphatically centrist the Clinton team's language/messaging was
- I now remember wanting to have Bill Schneider's job so badly in high school..

The Clinton team's language makes me wonder if/when we'll ever see the GOP seek to moderate itself in order to become electorally competitive again. They have a base that's much less compliant with such efforts - many of them literally think that they're on a mission from God and that compromise is therefore evil. Should be interesting to watch.

Makes for great bedtime viewing. I think as we draw closer to the election, I'm going to try to amass one megapost of past Election Nights, if possible. Perhaps this is overly politics-geeky, but I'd buy DVDs of this kind of footage if it were available.

you're watching this between parades? sound like another drunkin night

 

[Oblivion]

That dude who talked about all the blahs and the "crazy welfare checks" has come up with a defense, btw:

“It was late at night and he called me,” Alday said of his earlier interview with Clarion-Ledger investigative reporter Jerry Mitchell. “He asked me a question back to when I was in law enforcement … I have a way of talking and saying, ‘take this off the record.’”

Instead, Alday said, Mitchell used his casual, off-the-cuff comments as an official statement without providing the full context of his feelings on the matter.

Mitchell said he contacted Alday about education funding last week and that the legislator steered the discussion toward race. The comments appeared as they were given and within the context of the discussion, Mitchell said.

Not sure how such comments would be better stated in context, but there ya go.

 

[HylianTom]

I watch election nights on youtube sometimes, it's entertaining. I watched the Super Tuesday 2008 coverage not long ago, and it was funny how many CNN commentators kept saying "whoever wins California tonight will be seen as tonight's winner". Only Wolf pointed out that they'd probably split the delegates.

Watching election night 2000 over again though is painful as fuck.

That one.. I tried, but damn did it hurt. I'm going to include it and try to watch it again, but that might be a bridge

Spoiler

(to the 21st Century!)

too far.

you're watching this between parades? sound like another drunkin night

Oh yeah - we're that kind of oddball household! Many of our conversations are like a live version of PoliGAF. (For a joke, we sometimes tell folks that we met the week that Greenspan gave his "irrational exuberance" speech back in Dec '96.) Sometimes one of us is the Diablos, sometimes the other is the anti-Diablos. It switches from scenario to scenario. Really fun!

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Oh yeah - we're that kind of oddball household! Many of our conversations are like a live version of PoliGAF. (For a joke, we sometimes tell folks that we met the week that Greenspan gave his "irrational exuberance" speech back in Dec '96.) Sometimes one of us is the Diablos, sometimes the other is the anti-Diablos. It switches from scenario to scenario. Really fun!

I really need to come back to New Orleans. Pretty much only really want to live in three places in the US. NYC, DC or NOLA. NOLA is just not that great for what I want to do

 

[Jooney]

CNN: 57% disapprove of Obama's handling of ISIS
57% disapprove of his handling of foreign affairs
54% disapprove of his handling of terrorism
58% say our fight with ISIS is going badly
47% now say we need to deploy ground troops (up from 44% last november).


And this is how republicans will win presidential elections.

Americans need to disconnect themselves from this muscular notion of foreign policy. Until that happens these numbers won't change.

Other countries need to step up and take care of the problem in their own neighbourhood.

 

[FiggyCal]

Americans need to disconnect themselves from this muscular notion of foreign policy. Until that happens these numbers won't change.

Other countries need to step up and take care of the problem in their own neighbourhood.

When all you hear in the media is of another hostage being killed by ISIS and failed rescue attempts, I can see why people would think we need to do more. I'm not even talking about the conservative media that is actually gung-ho whether or not things are going well. It's not that the American public is somehow incredibly violent and pro-war -- it's just that we deal with more fear-mongering and a media that "reports both sides" rather than objective truth.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I'm dropping-in between parades to leave something with you all..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcrcNtVAxc

Almost five hours of CNN Election Night 1996. I fell asleep watching it a few nights ago. An amazing trip back to one (very drunken) night during my college years.

A few points that stuck-out with me:
- Florida is one of the first states to be called - wow!
- Louisiana with two Democratic senators?!
- How emphatically centrist the Clinton team's language/messaging was
- I now remember wanting to have Bill Schneider's job so badly in high school..

The Clinton team's language makes me wonder if/when we'll ever see the GOP seek to moderate itself in order to become electorally competitive again. They have a base that's much less compliant with such efforts - many of them literally think that they're on a mission from God and that compromise is therefore evil. Should be interesting to watch.

Makes for great bedtime viewing. I think as we draw closer to the election, I'm going to try to amass one megapost of past Election Nights, if possible. Perhaps this is overly politics-geeky, but I'd buy DVDs of this kind of footage if it were available.

I think many of us here have said Republicans will need to find their own Clinton in terms of an actually centrist, moderate candidate (not someone of the Christie, Romney or Jeb Bush mold - they are actual conservatives, they just don't always sound as crazy) who's at least palatable to the base but is attractive to independent/Dem leaning voters. But the problem (at least this is my perspective) is that I find Democrats are naturally more open to compromise than Republicans, at least modern ones who would rather run scorched earth campaigns and the only compromise is to get 100% of what they want at all times. Boehner and Obama came so close to a "grand bargain" where Boehner said he'd get 95% of what he wanted and even that wasn't good enough for House Republicans.

I don't know, they could still win 2016 I guess, I just doubt it. A lot of the concern trolling about Hillary's chances seems rather similar to what people were saying about Obama in 2011-2012 and election night was relatively anticlimactic for all the hype.

 

[NeoXChaos]

I think many of us here have said Republicans will need to find their own Clinton in terms of an actually centrist, moderate candidate (not someone of the Christie, Romney or Jeb Bush mold - they are actual conservatives, they just don't always sound as crazy) who's at least palatable to the base but is attractive to independent/Dem leaning voters. But the problem (at least this is my perspective) is that I find Democrats are naturally more open to compromise than Republicans, at least modern ones who would rather run scorched earth campaigns and the only compromise is to get 100% of what they want at all times. Boehner and Obama came so close to a "grand bargain" where Boehner said he'd get 95% of what he wanted and even that wasn't good enough for House Republicans.

I don't know, they could still win 2016 I guess, I just doubt it. A lot of the concern trolling about Hillary's chances seems rather similar to what people were saying about Obama in 2011-2012 and election night was relatively anticlimactic for all the hype.

I still think Hillary is going to win.

I'm just not as bullish on her chances as someone like you may be. x)

 

[Avon Barksdale]

PublicPolicyPolling @ppppolls · 1h 1 hour ago

52% of South Carolina Republicans think flying the Confederate flag is good for the state's national image

South Carolina everyone.

 

[Poodlestrike]

South Carolina everyone.

I'm surprised it's that low, tbpf.

 

[Konka]

I should note that he didn't say anything (afaik) about buying across state lines on Friday; I was just speculating.

I really think the ACA is in danger, not because I'm Diablosing but because the GOP is legitimately holding out for this one. The rhetoric has really been toned down lately, more than I can ever remember since the law passed. That in and of itself is pretty significant. People like Cathy McMorris Rodgers have been saying for the longest time that a more practical approach to hurt the ACA is getting rid of subsidies as well. Everyone knows each other in regards to Congress and the think tanks that are defending and fighting against King.

Also, when is the last time you've seen the GOP seriously eager to actually say "we need to have something to replace the ACA." Was it when Mitt Romney flirted with the idea in 2012?

Diablos. The house voted to repeal it two weeks ago. What are you talking about.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/04/us-usa-congress-obamacare-idUSKBN0L72JS20150204

 

[PhoenixDark]

I read a half decent argument not long ago that had Obama lost in 2008 then Democrats probably would have gained veto override majorities in the House and Senate in 2010 and could have passed whatever they wanted, gotten their way on foreign policy, and dictated who the Supreme Court nominees were to be.

I mean, possibly that could have happened, but that's gambling an awful lot on the hope that Democrats could have been united and disciplined enough to pass single-payer and whatever else with dozens and dozens of Blue Dogs in the caucus. It was also a once in a generation moment to have the chance at getting veto override majorities, and not a strategy to use 95% of the time.

The party would be more conservative than it is right now, and losers like Blanche Lincoln might still be in the senate. I'm sure they'd love to pass a variety of conservative bills with John McCain. Who wouldn't pass a single-payer healthcare plan, let's be real.

 

[ivysaur12]

Of course having the presidency is better than the House and the Senate. Democrats would probably cave and the POTUS's judicial nominees would have a lifetime to lay ruin to the country.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Oh yeah - we're that kind of oddball household! Many of our conversations are like a live version of PoliGAF. (For a joke, we sometimes tell folks that we met the week that Greenspan gave his "irrational exuberance" speech back in Dec '96.) Sometimes one of us is the Diablos, sometimes the other is the anti-Diablos. It switches from scenario to scenario. Really fun!

I had many a drunkn' nights talking politics in new orleans, even with republicans. The best part is you can still get a drink after and its never personal. At least in NOLA proper. I never ventured to metarie or kenner. Boring places.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Suprise! don lemon comes in last on the CNN quiz show.

 

[Oblivion]

lol, this guy:

"I'm not a bad person, and that makes me look like an evil person," Alday said Monday. "I didn't do anything wrong. The guy made me look like a fool."

...

But the former mayor, former police chief and current first-term legislator said he had no idea his remarks would appear in a story and, if he had, he wouldn't have made them.

...

But Alday said the reporter failed to write about the numerous times Alday has helped people of all races in his community, whether that meant giving them rides to the doctor or providing credit on merchandise at the store run by his family.

"Yes, it's true that most of the blacks in my hometown are on welfare," Alday said. "But they're good people. I don't have anything against anybody. I'm a straight-up guy. In my little town they had little civil rights walks and I was with them. I'm with everybody."

 

[Coriolanus]

"They the good ones", gawd damn.

 

[B-Dubs]

lol, this guy:

This fucking guy, are we sure it isn't an Onion writer trolling us?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

 

[Metaphoreus]

I've been on the road all day and only just got home. Has this been posted?

Preliminary injunction granted in Texas v. United States:

The Southern District of Texas has issued a temporary injunction enjoining the United States, and all of its officers from implementing any aspect of DAPA. The injunction is here. The opinion is here.

EDIT: I'll just see myself out.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Dreamers have posted this

http://unitedwedream.org/judge-just-ruled-halt-immigration-executive-action-5-things-know/

The judges was hostile from the beginning its probably not gonna stick

I've been on the road all day and only just got home. Has this been posted?

Preliminary injunction granted in Texas v. United States:



EDIT: I'll just see myself out.

To be fair, I literally JUST saw it.

I was out finding my cat who escaped today. I didn't have much time to check the news

 

[NYCmetsfan]

As many have said on twitter. This might be the out for the house in their DHS fight

 

[Wilsongt]

The list of states bringing the lawsuit against Obama on this were all red states.

Whodathunk?

 

[Jack Remington]

I should note that he didn't say anything (afaik) about buying across state lines on Friday; I was just speculating.

I really think the ACA is in danger, not because I'm Diablosing but because the GOP is legitimately holding out for this one. The rhetoric has really been toned down lately, more than I can ever remember since the law passed. That in and of itself is pretty significant. People like Cathy McMorris Rodgers have been saying for the longest time that a more practical approach to hurt the ACA is getting rid of subsidies as well. Everyone knows each other in regards to Congress and the think tanks that are defending and fighting against King.

Also, when is the last time you've seen the GOP seriously eager to actually say "we need to have something to replace the ACA." Was it when Mitt Romney flirted with the idea in 2012?

Democrats don't have to do anything, even if 5 Supremes confirm they have fewer functioning brain cells than a cabbage and rule for King. Let the subsidies disappear. See who becomes the target of outrage.

 

[ivysaur12]

As many have said on twitter. This might be the out for the house in their DHS fight

Mmhmm, though I don't necessarily think this will stick once the dust has settled, if just because this marries two favorite concepts of both conservative and liberals: expanded executive authority and immigration reform.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Democrats don't have to do anything, even if 5 Supremes confirm they have fewer functioning brain cells than a cabbage and rule for King. Let the subsidies disappear. See who becomes the target of outrage.

If hacks like Linda Greenhouse have their way, I'll have to add another standard you've-been-misinformed-about-this-SCOTUS-case routine to my repertoire. Her article in the NYT a week or so back was embarrassing.

 

[Diablos]

Diablos. The house voted to repeal it two weeks ago. What are you talking about.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/04/us-usa-congress-obamacare-idUSKBN0L72JS20150204

They are toning down the rhetoric. Less articles about the GOP wanting to kill the law, more about King v. Burwell. The GOP knows this too. They are shifting the messaging from crying about wanting to repeal to hyping this case, because they believe it is in their best interest to do so, clearly.

All it's going to take is one minor attack here for people to really go insane. And perhaps to sink Obama's presidency/hurt Hillary.

That being said, I don't think ISIS is a threat to the US, nor do I support military engagement against them.

I think what hurts Obama more than anything is Fox News et. al. constantly masturbating over every fucking video ISIS posts. It makes people think these antics are coming to their backyard and it's scaring the shit out of them. Frankly the media is doing some marketing for ISIS; if they had half a brain and let go of their anti-Obama agenda fabricated by baseless arguments, they'd stop showing this stuff so much, because all it really does is encourage ISIS to make even more videos and spread their hatred and terrorism even further. Derp.

Democrats don't have to do anything, even if 5 Supremes confirm they have fewer functioning brain cells than a cabbage and rule for King. Let the subsidies disappear. See who becomes the target of outrage.

No, let's not let them disappear. And if they do the target of the outrage will start with the guy who has been championing the law since the second it passed: The President, along with his party that already took a beating last fall. No one is going to care or understand how the court took up the case when they just lost their subsidy and can't get health insurance anywhere else.

 

[Vivalaraza]

Hi. Can somebody please provide a very short overview, or a link perhaps, which explains how the Republicans and Democrats have shifted to opposite ends of the political spectrum in the US?

 

[esms]

CNN: 57% disapprove of Obama's handling of ISIS
57% disapprove of his handling of foreign affairs
54% disapprove of his handling of terrorism
58% say our fight with ISIS is going badly
47% now say we need to deploy ground troops (up from 44% last november).


And this is how republicans will win presidential elections.

It's funny to me, at least, because I don't see too much difference between Obama and Bush on this front. I mean sure he brought our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan to a virtual end, but other than that it's been status quo in regards to the Middle East.

Seems like it's a perception thing.

 

[PhoenixDark]

As many have said on twitter. This might be the out for the house in their DHS fight

Explain.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Whats with that locked RepublicanGaf thread?

there was like 2 republicans in there. Gaf has scared the republicans away when we need that extra dialogue and different view points for a great big debate.

 

[jamesinclair]

Whats with that locked RepublicanGaf thread?

there was like 2 republicans in there. Gaf has scared the republicans away when we need that extra dialogue and different view points for a great big debate.

Bringing in a contrarian view for the sake of having a contrarian view makes no sense.

Thats how you get garbage media where something like global warming is presented like a 50-50 tossup vs 99-1


Also

 

[esms]

Whats with that locked RepublicanGaf thread?

there was like 2 republicans in there. Gaf has scared the republicans away when we need that extra dialogue and different view points for a great big debate.

It's a shame, but that debate won't be happening on GAF.

 

[Metaphoreus]

Whats with that locked RepublicanGaf thread?

there was like 2 republicans in there. Gaf has scared the republicans away when we need that extra dialogue and different view points for a great big debate.

I'd guess Opiate's post (35) has something to do with it. Plus, the very last post in there is the OP requesting the thread's closure.

Bringing in a contrarian view for the sake of having a contrarian view makes no sense.

Despite what you may believe, not everyone who disagrees with you does it just for show. Don't be so arrogant.

 

[AntoneM]

Hi. Can somebody please provide a very short overview, or a link perhaps, which explains how the Republicans and Democrats have shifted to opposite ends of the political spectrum in the US?

I can't because they have both shifted to the right in the post WWII era.