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PoliGAF 2014 |OT2| We need to be more like Disney World

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Whats with that locked RepublicanGaf thread?

there was like 2 republicans in there. Gaf has scared the republicans away when we need that extra dialogue and different view points for a great big debate.

Honestly, I don't think the mods did any favors to GOP-GAF by the way they handled that thread.

Locking it, even though the OP requested it, was probably not a great move. It kind of sends a message that threads on conservative topics aren't doable on GAF, which I don't think is true.

Ban a few of the shit posters at the outset to send a clear message, but don't close it.
 

Averon

Member
Pretty sad how that thread went. It really would have been nice to read what conservativeGAF thought about Jeb, Walker, etc...Can't really blame conservativeGAF remaining quiet if simple threads like that gets such a knee-jerk response.
 

esms

Member
Honestly, I don't think the mods did any favors to GOP-GAF by the way they handled that thread.

Locking it, even though the OP requested it, was probably not a great move. It kind of sends a message that threads on conservative topics aren't doable on GAF, which I don't think is true.

Ban a few of the shit posters at the outset to send a clear message, but don't close it.

Well, one of the shit posters did get banned, so it wasn't a total loss.
 

NeoXChaos

Member
The environment here has become so hostile to conservative viewpoints that even in a thread specifically asking Republicans a question, the thread is mostly liberals answering in proxy.

Well he isnt wrong. Any response with a remotely conservative viewpoint in any thread related to certain topics is pounced on.

Almost every response in the thread was "Im not a republican but if I was" and they would go on to mock or pick candidates who are known to be disasters in a general election to advance the democratic agenda for Hillary.

Many Republicans have been either banned or refuse to post for fear of backlash. I guess there isnt a world for a millennial Republican.
 
Pretty sad how that thread went. It really would have been nice to read what conservativeGAF thought about Jeb, Walker, etc...Can't really blame conservativeGAF remaining quiet if simple threads like that gets such a knee-jerk response.

ConservativeGAF does not necessarily equal RepublicanGAF, but I see your point.

I was disappointed that it was closed before I saw it post, because I'm a more moderate Republican (honestly, I might have trouble calling myself that, given how the leadership of that group acts) and I would have liked to throw in my two cents. Reading through it, it is clear that it wasn't "being a conservative or Republican is wrong and we're closing this thread", but it still sucks that what seemed like a place where I feel like I could have spoken freely back when I was more Republican got shut down. Indicates that those topics shouldn't be discussed.

Meh, hard to tell how to fix it, but it's not really healthy to have the stigma that opposing views aren't welcome.

Many Republicans have been either banned or refuse to post for fear of backlash. I guess there isnt a world for a millennial Republican.
Which is sad, because I feel like millennial Republicans have a lot to contribute to the conversation. But they're a minority in their own party and have trouble with their opposing view peers.
 
Too bed fair, it's difficult to listen to somebody say they think Paul Ryan would be a good person on another ticket because he's smart and fiscally responsible. The dude got destroyed in a debate against Diamond Joe and holds some pretty unlikable positions. Most people that vote republican for fiscal reasons seem to think we should operate our economy like a home budget does.

I disagree with 90% of the stuff Metaphoreus posts, and about 60% of what Benji posts, but they don't get banned or ridiculed and present positions on the right nicely. Conservatives don't get banned on this board for posting. They get banned for drive-by posting inane shit.

That thread was a disaster though.
 
The only conservative in this thread is PD. He did vote for Rick Snyder and for all we know he secretly voted for Romney.

I don't care about climate change, dislike Islam*, and don't support specific gun model bans. I guess that makes me 37% Benji.

*to be fair, I think all Abrahamic religions are largely trash.
 
Newspaper Regrets Calling Obama An 'Assclown' Over Selfie-Stick Video

The St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper had second thoughts after calling President Barack Obama an "assclown" in a photo caption on Monday, television station KMSP reported.

The newspaper ran a photo showing the President holding a selfie stick as part of his recent BuzzFeed video. The photo included a caption: “A fool-proof way to make yourself look like a self-absorbed assclown.”
Sports producer Kevin Cusick, who was responsible for the caption, told KMSP that it was a "poor choice of words."

"I must have been in an especially foul mood last night," he told the station. He added that he had since "toned it down a bit."

On Tuesday morning, the caption now read: "A fool-proof way to make yourself look like a self-absorbed celebrity."
 
Yup, I've long felt that way. I don't buy the idea about peaking early/late in polls. Candidates rose and fell in 2012 based largely stupidity in debates. Once one candidate invalidated his or her self, voters moved to the next shiny new face. People like Bachman, Cain, etc were never going to capture the heart of voters, they were clear losers and showed it in debates. However Scott Walker actually has a record of accomplishments, has beaten democrats, and has not committed sins against right wing orthodoxy.

His strengths are pretty counterfeit in reality: his Wisconsin record is poor and he only won elections during off-years with low turnout. But to republicans his strengths are impressive, hence why I think he'll end up as the compromise candidate. Christie is going to bomb early IMO, and his donors will need somewhere to go. I don't believe they'll simply jump to Jeb, who I expect to lose multiple early contests.

Then there's the Mitt Romney factor. Romney allegedly doesn't believe Jeb is a good candidate. IMO a lot of this has to do with Romney knowing he wouldn't have much of a role in a potential Bush White House; Bush already has his donor and adviser system. But Scott Walker could give Romney the access and attention he wants - maybe even a cabinet post. I think Romney will endorse Walker.
 
B-EW-ddIAAElsby.jpg:large


politics is one long joke

they really should have gone with #millenials4jeb though
 
No, let's not let them disappear. And if they do the target of the outrage will start with the guy who has been championing the law since the second it passed: The President, along with his party that already took a beating last fall. No one is going to care or understand how the court took up the case when they just lost their subsidy and can't get health insurance anywhere else.

First of all, I expect the SC to rule for Burwell, as the plaintiffs' case is completely idiotic, and only extreme partisan hacks could seriously agree with their reading of the law.

However, let's say I'm wrong.

You have 13 states where nothing changes. The blue states among the 37 who used healthcare.gov out of convenience will set up front end "exchanges" in short order. Now you have 20-25 states holding out for ideological reasons, and a Congress that could render the issue moot with a four word fix.

In those 20 to 25 states, millions of people lose their coverage. You have the media running stories on people with cancer or heart disease who are no longer getting their treatments. Meanwhile, you have the blue states with far lower uninsurance rates and thriving health insurance markets.

Who do you think is really feeling the pressure in this scenario?
 
Claremont CA is fairly liberal for San Bernardino County CA due to the Claremont Colleges. Though I don't know too much about McKenna in general, I'm still a little shocked to see that from the area.

Seems like the exact opposite, actually.

I'm sure you would argue that's the case. Seems obvious it's not, but everyone is entitled to their perspective I guess.
 
First of all, I expect the SC to rule for Burwell, as the plaintiffs' case is completely idiotic, and only extreme partisan hacks could seriously agree with their reading of the law.

However, let's say I'm wrong.

You have 13 states where nothing changes. The blue states among the 37 who used healthcare.gov out of convenience will set up front end "exchanges" in short order. Now you have 20-25 states holding out for ideological reasons, and a Congress that could render the issue moot with a four word fix.

In those 20 to 25 states, millions of people lose their coverage. You have the media running stories on people with cancer or heart disease who are no longer getting their treatments. Meanwhile, you have the blue states with far lower uninsurance rates and thriving health insurance markets.

Who do you think is really feeling the pressure in this scenario?

I don't know. At least in LA, it feels like Landrieu lost her Senate seat partially because of the healthcare situation, with Jindal refusing to expanding Medicaid and a pretty heavy ad campaign blaming her for the system she voted for not working. Obamacare being a scapegoat requires less critical thinking and is easier to both understand and to self-confirm existing doubts with.

It feels more likely that half the country is just going to believe the system doesn't work with it working right next door, which is nothing new.
 
I don't know. At least in LA, it feels like Landrieu lost her Senate seat partially because of the healthcare situation, with Jindal refusing to expanding Medicaid and a pretty heavy ad campaign blaming her for the system she voted for not working. Obamacare being a scapegoat requires less critical thinking and is easier to both understand and to self-confirm existing doubts with.

It feels more likely that half the country is just going to believe the system doesn't work with it working right next door, which is nothing new.

If that does end up being the case, I'll be playing the world's smallest violin for the red staters. Let them pay into a system they don't get any benefit from. None of us should lose any sleep over it. You get what you vote for.
 
"Millenials for Jeb"

Just another long line of failed thinking stratagems by GOP dinosaurs. "If the Hispanics only heard our message!" or "If women only heard our message!" or "if black people only heard our message!" They honest to goodness believe that if people just hear the trickle down stuff, they will become republicans.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
She makes a far sounder argument than you have ever made, metacarpal.

Do you think so?

I don't.

Greenhouse suggests that, for King to win, the Court would have to abandon the well-known rule that a statutory provision must not be read in isolation. But nobody disputes that rule. The plaintiffs' argument is not that context should be ignored, but that context supports their reading. Greenhouse does her readers a disservice by misrepresenting the issues in the case.

I'm sure you would argue that's the case. Seems obvious it's not, but everyone is entitled to their perspective I guess.

Well, that's no argument. Why do you think the excerpt posted by APK was intimidation?
 
Context supports the idea that the law was crafted for no subsidies on healthcare.gov?

Stop.

Did you follow the progress of the bill in 2009? Did you even know what it was?
 
Well, that's no argument. Why do you think the excerpt posted by APK was intimidation?

Its very clear they're playing on real fears in the latino community that this will be used to track them. Its purely hypothetical and intentionally trying to say, even if this stuff passes a new president can track you, don't sign up.

Its concern trolling with the intent to depress participation. There's not need to ponder those hypothetical.
 
Metaphoreus, based on your gut who do you think will win the case? Obviously you sympathize with the argument against the government's but do you think the SC will agree?
 
If that does end up being the case, I'll be playing the world's smallest violin for the red staters. Let them pay into a system they don't get any benefit from. None of us should lose any sleep over it. You get what you vote for.

How about the ~40% of people in those states who did(well, hypothetically would) vote for it?
 

Wilsongt

Member
Metaphoreus, based on your gut who do you think will win the case? Obviously you sympathize with the argument against the government's but do you think the SC will agree?

That's a silly question. Of course he does. Take away millions of people's subsidies, and potential health care, on the idea of strange wording. Sounds like Miralax's idea of a good time.
 
Well, that's no argument. Why do you think the excerpt posted by APK was intimidation?

APK did for me. I thought it was obvious though.


Its very clear they're playing on real fears in the latino community that this will be used to track them. Its purely hypothetical and intentionally trying to say, even if this stuff passes a new president can track you, don't sign up.

Its concern trolling with the intent to depress participation. There's not need to ponder those hypothetical.


I'm sure from your perspective the judge was just giving them the relevant info and wasn't trying to dissuade them from accepting Johnson's invitation out of the shadows.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Context supports the idea that the law was crafted for no subsidies on healthcare.gov?

Stop.

Did you follow the progress of the bill in 2009? Did you even know what it was?

The challengers' argument is that "The Act’s Structure and Context Confirm the Plain Text of the Subsidy Provision" (p. 27 of their merits brief). "Context," here (and as used by the courts), does not refer to legislative history ("the progress of the bill"), but to other parts of the statute's text.

I made a similar argument regarding context (though without using that word) in my response to eBay Huckster not long ago.

Its very clear they're playing on real fears in the latino community that this will be used to track them. Its purely hypothetical and intentionally trying to say, even if this stuff passes a new president can track you, don't sign up.

Its concern trolling with the intent to depress participation. There's not need to ponder those hypothetical.

But of course there is. In considering whether to grant an injunction, the court is called upon to consider the interests not only of both sides in a lawsuit, but also of third parties. The court already concluded that the states had shown a likelihood of success on the merits (another requirement for obtaining an injunction), so had to consider what would happen if DAPA were permitted to be put into effect and then invalidated.

And, realistically, do you think the judge expected much of anyone--regardless of citizenship or immigration status--to read his 123-page opinion? The theory that this was intended as intimidation at an audience unlikely to ever encounter it just doesn't pass the smell test.

Metaphoreus, based on your gut who do you think will win the case? Obviously you sympathize with the argument against the government's but do you think the SC will agree?

I don't know. I can't deny the strong emotional case to be made against accepting the challengers' argument, notwithstanding the legal merits of their claims. (I don't mean to say that SCOTUS siding with the government would necessarily be because of heartstring-tugging amici; it's certainly possible that the Court could side with the government on textualist grounds or by resort to some other doctrine (such as the coercion issue). So long as the Court adopts a serious textualist approach (unlike, say, the Fourth Circuit's approach), I'll be happy regardless of the outcome.)

That's a silly question. Of course he does. Take away millions of people's subsidies, and potential health care, on the idea of strange wording. Sounds like Miralax's idea of a good time.

I can speak for myself, thank you very much.

I'm sure from your perspective the judge was just giving them the relevant info and wasn't trying to dissuade them from accepting Johnson's invitation out of the shadows.

Again, from my perspective, he wasn't speaking to immigrants at all. Most likely, he had in mind the judges of the 5th Circuit and the justices of the Supreme Court.
 
To be fair, I didn't plan on reading the 100+ page opinion yet here I am with knowledge of what he said. I would imagine that a family with vested interests here is probably paying closer attention than I am too.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
To be fair, I didn't plan on reading the 100+ page opinion yet here I am with knowledge of what he said. I would imagine that a family with vested interests here is probably paying closer attention than I am too.

Sure, but this understanding is out of context. There is a well-established analysis that courts engage in to determine whether to grant a preliminary injunction. The interests of third parties are considered as part of that analysis.

For my part, I'd rather applicants for DACA and DAPA be individually informed prior to submitting an application that they are guaranteed nothing and the information they provide could be used against them. Better they make a decision with full view of the potential consequences than out of ignorance.
 
Circus performers jump through fewer hoops than you do in that reply to eBay huckster, metapod.

The whole thing is dizzying gymnastics all to dance around the fact that it's plain as day what was intended with the ACA.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
Circus performers jump through fewer hoops than you do in that reply to eBay huckster, metapod.

The whole thing is dizzying gymnastics all to dance around the fact that it's plain as day what was intended with the ACA.

No u

To paraphrase what I said way back in July:

[My] interpretation . . . is not ["dizzying gymnastics"] merely because must follow the text through its complicated structure. That's just in the nature of interpreting a complicated statute.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
I will admit that the tortured argument is quite fascinating. It's the logical equivalent of an MC Escher sketch.

I'm glad we've come to an agreement.

By "tortured argument," you meant the government's argument that an Exchange established by HHS under 1321 is an Exchange established by a state under 1311, right?
 
No, I mean your thousands of words of inanity.

An exchange established under 1321 is effectively identical to the exchange established under 1311, as it is "such exchange" as the one created under 1311. It's a perfect equivalent.
 

Metaphoreus

This is semantics, and nothing more
No, I mean your thousands of words of inanity.

An exchange established under 1321 is effectively identical to the exchange established under 1311, as it is "such exchange" as the one created under 1311. It's a perfect equivalent.

Except with respect to who established it, which is what the availability of credits hinges on.
 
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