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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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Iolo

Member
That's a centrist? Are you serious?

"Soldiers and police will be treated as criminals; criminals and terrorists will be allowed to run free. The police will be disarmed and it will be made nearly impossible to convict criminals. Military rules of engagement will be so restricted that soldiers will be unable to defend themselves without being prosecuted, much less conduct offensive operations. Israel will be found guilty of war crimes and human rights violations, as will officials involved with foreign policy in past GOP administrations. The death penalty is very gone and so is the life sentence (long since done away with in Europe)."

This is about as far right as I've seen this election.
Edit: That person has no idea how the courts work at all.

Also mentions:

- A property right will be discovered for reparations
- Immigration, naturalization and voter registration laws are to be eliminated
- Anti-discrimination and “hate speech” laws will be rather more vigorously enforced against churches and synagogues than mosques
- Private gun ownership will be outlawed
- "if it’s your deal (it’s not mine), social conservatism will be truly well and buried"

Not only does this sound like the fever dreams of the fringiest far-right; it sounds like this "moderate" is deliberately stoking those fires with code words while cloaking themselves in the mantle of centrism to give their nearly insane views the veneer of respectability; even moderates feel this way!

In the 90s I used to read shit like this from black helicopter folks on Usenet.

Moderate my ass.
 
To reuse an example:





This is just from one page and a link to "THE DETAILED PLAN" on that page. And it's all pie in the sky, vague, unlikely, promises that not only won't be but probably cannot be kept.
See I'm having a hard time seeing this as pie in the sky silliness. It's part of a platform that's vaguely in the playing field of something that can be achieved. It's not as detailed but nothing outside the realm of possible. You want to know Bernie's plan?
The Plan
Reclaim our Democracy from the Billionaire Fossil Fuel Lobby
That's the dude's plan. That's outside the realm of reality. Billionaire Fossil Fuel Lobbyists. I'm sure they will all quit their jobs and become lumberjacks. Here's some more impossibilities:
Ban offshore drilling.
Ban Arctic oil drilling.
Protect the health of our children.
And this one:
Increase fuel economy standards to 65 miles per gallon by 2025.
Seriously, that's his plan. Ban all the bad things and activate all the good things! I understand what you're positing: How really real are anyone's plans? I guess we have to draw the line somewhere, no? The fact that you picked up climate change is interesting because that's where lot of Joe Manchin coal country democrats are, democrats with whom he needs to forge alliance if he needs to get his "ban the bad stuff" passed. That's after he has reclaimed the Democracy from the Fossil Fuel Cabal!
 

HylianTom

Banned
Also mentions:

- A property right will be discovered for reparations
- Immigration, naturalization and voter registration laws are to be eliminated
- Anti-discrimination and “hate speech” laws will be rather more vigorously enforced against churches and synagogues than mosques
- Private gun ownership will be outlawed
- "if it’s your deal (it’s not mine), social conservatism will be truly well and buried"

Not only does this sound like the fever dreams of the fringiest far-right; it sounds like this "moderate" is deliberately stoking those fires with code words while cloaking themselves in the mantle of centrism to give their nearly insane views the veneer of respectability; even moderates feel this way!

In the 90s I used to read shit like this from black helicopter folks on Usenet.

Moderate my ass.
Yeah.. being human on gay issues and abortion doesn't really offset the other litany of cucco-for-Cocoa-Puffs positions he holds.
 

Iolo

Member
That's the dude's plan. That's outside the realm of reality. Billionaire Fossil Fuel Lobbyists. I'm sure they will all quit their jobs and become lumberjacks.

What if each billionaire fossil fuel lobbyist just creates 1,000 millionaire fossil fuel S-corporations... would that solve the problem
 
Rusty, you're falling victim to the backfire effect. Both of those are fulla shite. You just prefer a specific flavour of shite due to entirely personal criteria that colour your perception as justified.


Benji can go on and on, btw. Hills issues page is a treasure trove.
 
Eh. There are promises you can't keep and there are promises you can't keep.
The fundamental premise of Sanders' campaign, the revolution, is frankly one of the latter.
 
Rusty, you're falling victim to the backfire effect. Both of those are fulla shite. You just prefer a specific flavour of shite due to entirely personal criteria that colour your perception as justified.


Benji can go on and on, btw. Hills issues page is a treasure trove.
Fine I'll stop. I guess I like to be on the side of things that are closer to achievable than absolutely impossible.

Besides I am usually scared of going against benji because you never know when he might drop an improbable Howard Taft trivia and defeat you.
 
Seriously, that's his plan. Ban all the bad things and activate all the good things! I understand what you're positing: How really real are anyone's plans? I guess we have to draw the line somewhere, no? The fact that you picked up climate change is interesting because that's where lot of Joe Manchin coal country democrats are, democrats with whom he needs to forge alliance if he needs to get his "ban the bad stuff" passed. That's after he has reclaimed the Democracy from the Fossil Fuel Cabal!

As someone who lived in West Virginia for 15 years, I can assure you the "Joe Manchin coal country democrats" have not been democrats for about a decade. Joe Manchin slides through on name recognition, but the pro-union, socially conservative blue dogs are just republicans now. There are 55 counties in West Virginia and every single one of them went for Romney in 2012. Obama lost some counties by an 85-15 margin and lost every county except one by at least 10 points. That said, it is abundantly clear that Obama has pushed through important climate policy while dealing with the absolute rejection of this region. West Virginia recently managed to push through right-to-work laws in WV as well, which shows you how much clout these joe manchin dems have even within their own state legislature. That demographic of the democratic party is completely useless today because most of them decided their rights as workers are less important than gay people getting married and thusly jumped ship.
 
He won't.

Clinton v Trump = you're going to see people sit on their hands on the GOP side.

I think Trump will alienate GOP voters regardless of who he's up against. My mom is one of them. She's a Ted Cruz supporter and is flirting with the idea of sitting out the election if Trump is the nominee.
 

kirblar

Member
I think Trump will alienate GOP voters regardless of who he's up against. My mom is one of them. She's a Ted Cruz supporter and is flirting with the idea of sitting out the election if Trump is the nominee.
Clinton is in a much stronger position this time. The nominee is going to be a loon (unless Kasich somehow pulls a win out of his ass) and she's able to draft off Obama here in ways that should help mitigate. She's not a great candidate, but she should be fine.

Putting Dems into a war footing like in '08 is the exact thing they needed to help smooth the post-Sanders divide. This doesn't help the GOP because they're always on a war footing.
 

GnawtyDog

Banned
A rant from one of the posters on a reasonable Republican site I visit that talks about elections from largely an analytical way. This is how a supposed centrist feels on there, let alone the conservatives.

"The difference between a moderate conservative and a hard right conservative does not exist."

Ironic and hypocritical - the article.
 
Fine I'll stop. I guess I like to be on the side of things that are closer to achievable than absolutely impossible.

I don't understand this talking point. It popped up in the NH Primary thread and in every debate thread I've kept an eye on. What on Earth makes people think any agenda Hillary has is achievable? That she's more moderate than Sanders? That doesn't stop the fact that Republicans have hated her since the mid-90's and would rather back legislation put fourth by Satan than consider passing anything Hillary proposed.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Well, I remember not too long ago a lot of Hillary fans here saying a Nevada win was extremely unlikely because of diversity. I got way more bullish on his national chances after seeing that poll. Hillary's 2008 map is starting to look possible for Bern.

That map would be a loss.
 

kirblar

Member
I don't understand this talking point. It popped up in the NH Primary thread and in every debate thread I've kept an eye on. What on Earth makes people think any agenda Hillary has is achievable? That she's more moderate than Sanders? That doesn't stop the fact that Republicans have hated her since the mid-90's and would rather back legislation put fourth by Satan than consider passing anything Hillary proposed.
Because she's prepared to immediately continue in the footsteps of DGAF Obama with many parts of it.

One understated issue with Sanders' policies- it's not just that they're not achievable, many Dems don't think they're actually good ideas to even attempt to implement. The $15 minimum wage and single-payer are two examples of that.
 
I appreciate Sanders making Hilary go more to the left, but this guy in the general would be scary. Democrats can't afford to lose this election.
 
To be fair, continuing on the footsteps of dgaf bams = veto whatever and (finally) go balls deep with executive orders, which is something that either candidate would be able to do.

As for dems not supporting policy x, it's irrelevant given the state of congress, and particularly the haus.


Which is why i tend to focus on "how does this candidate intend to prepare for '18?"

----

Fwiw, when discussing sanders's 15 dolla wage proposal, it is important to keep in mind that his wording there is:
Elder Il-Sung said:
We must increase it to $15 an hour over the next several years.
Which, tbh, doesn't sound as ludicrous. It has been 7.25 since 2009, after all.
 
Because she's prepared to immediately continue in the footsteps of DGAF Obama with many parts of it.

One understated issue with Sanders' policies- it's not just that they're not achievable, many Dems don't think they're actually good ideas to even attempt to implement. The $15 minimum wage and single-payer are two examples of that.

DGAF Obama only showed up after 5 years of Bipartisan Obama.

The thing is, I don't think Sanders expects a nationwide $15 minimum wage. But if we're going to debate minimum wage, why not start high, then compromise down (to something like $12 or even $10)? Democrats have for decades been opening with what they think is the minimum, then compromising down to what Republicans actually want (Obamacare is essentially the embodiment of this). Single Payer is not a bad idea, and it polls very well among the Democratic Base, I find it hard to believe they don't think it would be a good thing to implement.
 

kirblar

Member
DGAF Obama only showed up after 5 years of Bipartisan Obama.

The thing is, I don't think Sanders expects a nationwide $15 minimum wage. But if we're going to debate minimum wage, why not start high, then compromise down (to something like $12 or even $10)? Democrats have for decades been opening with what they think is the minimum, then compromising down to what Republicans actually want (Obamacare is essentially the embodiment of this). Single Payer is not a bad idea, and it polls very well among the Democratic Base, I find it hard to believe they don't think it would be a good thing to implement.
Because $15 is actually happening in places across the country. People defend it saying "oh its just a starting point" just as you did, but that's hogwash. It's very much the intentional endgame of a number of organizations bankrolling the push.

"IT HAPPENED TO SEATTLE, IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!" isn't really something you want on the campaign trail, and if you don't actually want it as policy, why push it out there?

It's a live-action economics experiment. But it's one that even a lot of liberal economists are worried about.
 

Chichikov

Member
To reuse an example:

This is just from one page and a link to "THE DETAILED PLAN" on that page. And it's all pie in the sky, vague, unlikely, promises that not only won't be but probably cannot be kept.

See I'm having a hard time seeing this as pie in the sky silliness. It's part of a platform that's vaguely in the playing field of something that can be achieved. It's not as detailed but nothing outside the realm of possible. You want to know Bernie's plan?

That's the dude's plan. That's outside the realm of reality. Billionaire Fossil Fuel Lobbyists. I'm sure they will all quit their jobs and become lumberjacks. Here's some more impossibilities:

And this one:

Seriously, that's his plan. Ban all the bad things and activate all the good things! I understand what you're positing: How really real are anyone's plans? I guess we have to draw the line somewhere, no? The fact that you picked up climate change is interesting because that's where lot of Joe Manchin coal country democrats are, democrats with whom he needs to forge alliance if he needs to get his "ban the bad stuff" passed. That's after he has reclaimed the Democracy from the Fossil Fuel Cabal!

Eh. There are promises you can't keep and there are promises you can't keep.
The fundamental premise of Sanders' campaign, the revolution, is frankly one of the latter.
It can be fun to argue about candidates' plan, and it's certainly more interesting to me than freaking out over polls (or even worse, freaking out over Rubio), but for real, I hope you don't pick a candidate based on what's written in the "issues" section of their website.
This isn't your first rodeo, right? ya'll should know the actual value of such things.
 
Which is why i tend to focus on "how does this candidate intend to prepare for '18?"
I mean, in this regard, one is pretending the bully pulpit actually works and that it will sweep a revolution into power. The other is raising money for the party infrastructure and not alienating moderates that certain seats require to be flipped.

Although I would like to think that the former would start doing the latter in the event they win the party leadership.
 
Because $15 is actually happening in places across the country. People defend it saying "oh its just a starting point" just as you did, but that's hogwash. It's very much the intentional endgame of a number of organizations bankrolling the push.

"IT HAPPENED TO SEATTLE, IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!" isn't really something you want on the campaign trail, and if you don't actually want it as policy, why push it out there?

It's a live-action economics experiment. But it's one that even a lot of liberal economists are worried about.

In certain places $15 is justifiable. That's why you compromise down to 10/12 after an initial offer of 15, because certain places will set their minimums to whatever works for them, but obviously $15/hr isn't ideal for certain rural areas.
 
I mean, in this regard, one is pretending the bully pulpit actually works and that it will sweep a revolution into power. The other is raising money for the party infrastructure and not alienating moderates that certain seats require to be flipped.

The same party infrastructure that failed to improve turnout in previous midterms. Which should become even worse given the continued democrat control of the presidency.

So yay populism and stuff.

Although I would like to think that the former would start doing the latter in the event they win the party leadership.
Well... yeah. No use in fretting over it now at this very moment if one's grandpa bakunin tho.
 
That she's more moderate than Sanders? That doesn't stop the fact that Republicans have hated her since the mid-90's and would rather back legislation put fourth by Satan than consider passing anything Hillary proposed.

The thing is, I don't think Sanders expects a nationwide $15 minimum wage. But if we're going to debate minimum wage, why not start high, then compromise down (to something like $12 or even $10)? Democrats have for decades been opening with what they think is the minimum, then compromising down to what Republicans actually want (Obamacare is essentially the embodiment of this).

1. You can't believe both that Republicans are so partisan that they won't negotiate with Clinton because of a 20 year old grudge but will let themselves be taken in by a Freshman negotiating tactic like 'ask for more at the start'. You think Mitch McConnell doesn't know how negotiating works?

2. The idea that Obamacare is the result of the lack of this strategy ignores what actually happened. Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln spent months offering smaller and smaller healthcare packages to get a couple of Republican senators to vote for it. When no one would the Democrats passed a much larger bill themselves. Obamacare was the most Democrats would support and the result of Republicans failing to negotiate at all.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
The same party infrastructure that failed to improve turnout in previous midterms. Which should become even worse given the continued democrat control of the presidency.

So yay populism and stuff.


Well... yeah. No use in fretting over it now at this very moment if one's grandpa bakunin tho.

Well I blame Obama for letting OFA die on the vine whenever he didn't need to use it, to be honest.
 
Well I blame Obama for letting OFA die on the vine whenever he didn't need to use it, to be honest.

OFA was too good for this world
131218_lowry_pajamaboy.jpg
never 4get

I'm confused. Are you trying to say it's a bad thing to raise money that's shared with state parties to be used?
I'm saying that if you're gramps you can't worry about that right now at this very juncture in your candidature. Which is why when people say "oh but how much moolah has bern raised for down ticket yada yada", that's just concern trolling, since they know he cant worry about that rite now.
 
Because $15 is actually happening in places across the country. People defend it saying "oh its just a starting point" just as you did, but that's hogwash. It's very much the intentional endgame of a number of organizations bankrolling the push.

"IT HAPPENED TO SEATTLE, IT COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!" isn't really something you want on the campaign trail, and if you don't actually want it as policy, why push it out there?

It's a live-action economics experiment. But it's one that even a lot of liberal economists are worried about.

If anything, the fact that $15 minimum wage already exists in pockets of the country dispels fear rather than builds on it. We saw the same thing happen with gay marriage and are watching it happen with weed legalization as well. Legal weed in Colorado hasn't caused huge pushback on the national stage, it's actually helped progress the issue.
 

Chichikov

Member
Jesus Christ, Cruz is ugly as fuck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtAWbl8GZSI&feature=youtu.be&t=1m58s

And Bernie and Trump getting rid of the second amendment, lmao.

Hillary tearing down religion, lmao.
Man, if that the best Cruz can do against Chuck fucking Todd he's in for a bumpy ride if that's the hill he's going to die on.
And for real, it boggles the mind how stupid the GOP are, even if you intend to block any person Obama put forward, tactically it makes so much more sense to not announce it ahead of time and just find a specific reason to reject any person Obama nominate.

Fucking clown shoes.
 

benjipwns

Banned
[Candidate] believes we are long overdue in raising the minimum wage. [Candidate] has supported raising the federal minimum wage to $12, and believes that we should go further than the federal minimum through state and local efforts, and workers organizing and bargaining for higher wages, such as the Fight for 15 and recent efforts in Los Angeles and New York to raise their minimum wage to $15. [Candidate] also supports the Obama Administration’s expansion of overtime rules to millions more workers.
Increasing the federal minimum wage from $7.25 to $15 an hour by 2020.
Which one is more achievable? Realistic? Vague?

Fine I'll stop. I guess I like to be on the side of things that are closer to achievable than absolutely impossible.

Besides I am usually scared of going against benji because you never know when he might drop an improbable Howard Taft trivia and defeat you.
Here's the thing. Hillary's plan only seems "achievable" because it's a standard white paper stacked full of endless policy proposals. Her 2008 site is even worse with them. And that's what you expect from a "serious" politician.

A 60 page list of goals and funds and programs and promises is just as valuable as a 60 word one.

Obama was handed the most favorable position for an incoming President since LBJ in 1964, he still couldn't pass his health care plan, let alone anything else in his campaign promises. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact. (LBJ couldn't pass half the Great Society either and he didn't bunch Congress' panties.)

Nowhere in those pages does Hillary outline any actual political strategy, she says she'll turn the global climate around in ten years no matter what the CLIMATE DENIERS IN CONGRESS say. In 2008, she promised to drop emissions below 30% of 1995. Now it's 30% of 2005. Both pages promise 80% by 2050. She's more likely to be dead by then than any of her executive orders to be the primary environmental or energy policy of the United States government.

There's nothing wrong with a candidate stating what they find a semi-realistic ideal in order to outline their principles. (Or even an unrealistic one like Obama did in 2008.) But only fools and knaves mistake it for legislation or even an executive order ready to be signed.

You can turn around all these criticisms easily, Clinton spent basically six years in the Senate as a stepping stone to the Presidency, Sanders has far more legislative experience for legislative sake so he knows how the system works. But that's okay, because Clinton can do things with executive orders and regulations...but apparently Sanders can't? Like he won't be able to find anybody to tell him how to do that? But Hillary can because she was a first lady? Or Secretary of State where she followed the orders of the President?

If you're going to support the Democratic Party no matter what, then only reason to argue against Sanders positions are if you disagree with them. It's not wrong to disagree with ideological positions of candidates just because your party hasn't had to really do it but once in nearly 30 years.
 
1. You can't believe both that Republicans are so partisan that they won't negotiate with Clinton because of a 20 year old grudge but will let themselves be taken in by a Freshman negotiating tactic like 'ask for more at the start'. You think Mitch McConnell doesn't know how negotiating works?

You would think the Democrats know better, but they clearly don't since they have been giving Republicans more than they wanted for decades now--even when they had substantial congressional majorities. McConnell's plan is essentially do only what he wants, as apparent by the fact that he wants use to wait 9-11 months to fill a currently vacant SCOTUS seat in hopes his party wins the Presidency.

2. The idea that Obamacare is the result of the lack of this strategy ignores what actually happened. Evan Bayh and Blanche Lincoln spent months offering smaller and smaller healthcare packages to get a couple of Republican senators to vote for it. When no one would the Democrats passed a much larger bill themselves. Obamacare was the most Democrats would support and the result of Republicans failing to negotiate at all.

They proposed what they thought would pass, and at its core the ACA is still based heavily on the Heritage Foundations HC Reform from the 80's/90's. It was the Conservative solution to Healthcare Reform for 20 years before Obama got it implemented, and now they hate it because a Democrat actually passed it.
 
If anything, the fact that $15 minimum wage already exists in pockets of the country dispels fear rather than builds on it. We saw the same thing happen with gay marriage and are watching it happen with weed legalization as well. Legal weed in Colorado hasn't caused huge pushback on the national stage, it's actually helped progress the issue.

You're comparing economic policy with gay marriage?
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
I don't know. I just think there's a reasonably big difference between calling him a ridiculous craven old lying coot, and pointing out the impracticality of policy platforms.

It would be nice to approach both these candidates from the viewpoint that they're ultimately good people that are ultimately driven by a desire to do good. /kumbaya
I think it'd also be fair to say very few people, or possibly only one, has gone that far.

For me, I don't think calling him "deliberately irresponsible" for his sudden incarceration promise in the last debate is off base. He has to have known what he was saying and the feds' limited ability to do anything about it. That's not even a position that can be helped with a favorable Congress. We'll see if he ever comes back with details on this promise. Maybe he'll have something other than "yell at states until they release large numbers of prisoners".

I also don't think he has bad intentions. He's just playing very fast and loose with what he's telling his supporters he can achieve off the backs of some unprecedented wave of civic engagement that nullifies the political opposition. I'd welcome his continued presence in the Senate where he can do what he does best, pushing bills incrementally in the right direction by submitting smart amendments. Finding common ground where it is, not hoping for a political revolution that makes Republicans nationwide bow in acquiescence to liberal desires.

To reuse an example:





This is just from one page and a link to "THE DETAILED PLAN" on that page. And it's all pie in the sky, vague, unlikely, promises that not only won't be but probably cannot be kept.
Some of that is definitely a little on the aspirational side of practicality, but a lot of it is also roughly in line with or only marginally better than current plans.

Dropping greenhouse gas emissions 30% from 2005 levels by 2025? We hit 9% by 2013. I believe we are tracking for 17% by 2020 with current plans.

The stated solar power goals of 140 GWh or 500m panels will require congressional action to renew some tax credits, but we're on pace to reach 30% of her goal by the end of this year. Even if we can only manage to maintain this year's installation rates with none of the growth previously seen year-over-year, we'd top 70% of the goal.

The gist of most of this is quite simply, continuing on Obama's path with the optimistic goal of improving such plans where possible.
 
They proposed what they thought would pass, and at its core the ACA is still based heavily on the Heritage Foundations HC Reform from the 80's/90's. It was the Conservative solution to Healthcare Reform for 20 years before Obama got it implemented, and now they hate it because a Democrat actually passed it.

Saying they proposed what they thought would pass makes it sound like a theoretical exorcise. We know exactly what would pass: Obamacare without the public option. We know this because Ben Nelson, among others, threatened to filibuster if the public option was included. Again, Obamacare passed with no, 0, Republican votes so its impossible that it was the result of the bargaining process. What we have is the most the Democratic senate would accept.
 
You're comparing economic policy with gay marriage?

I watched the population of my home state abandon economic policy in favor of social policy in terms of priorities, there's a fluidity there. These things don't exist on different planes to most voters. Furthermore, the idea that there being precedent for something makes it less scary/unknown isn't bound to one particular issue or type of issues.
 
It's bizarre that Cruz's campaign took down that softcore porn actress ad in light speed but still has Ted "the Jews are coming for your guns!" Nugent's endorsement online.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Might as well crosspost:
In an interview with The Washington Post, former President Clinton said he “always kind of liked" Justice Antonin Scalia, who died on Saturday while on a hunting trip in Texas.

Washington Post reporter Abby Phillip tweeted out Clinton’s remarks Saturday evening.

“Even though we disagreed on nearly everything, I always kind of liked Justice Scalia,” he reportedly said about one of the court’s most reliable conservative members.

Clinton also said Scalia’s passing came as a “great surprise.”

“He’s so full of life,” he reportedly said. “So vigorous. I thought he’d live to be 100.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ake-recess-appointment-to-succeed-scalia.html
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., has indicated that he thinks that the nomination of a new justice should wait until the election of the next president.

But if the White House does take that to heart -- and knows there would be an unprecedented attempt of filibuster a Supreme Court nominee until next year -- Obama has a rare opportunity to make a Recess appointment in the coming days.

This window is open next week and this week only.


In short: Both bodies of Congress are operating in the perfect parliamentary status in which a recess appointment would be applicable.

...

The Senate last met on Thursday. When doing so, it approved a “conditional adjournment resolution” for the Senate not to meet again until Monday, Feb. 22. The House met on Friday and at the close of business adopted the same adjournment resolution to get in sync with the Senate. The House is out until Tuesday, Feb. 23.

So, the House and Senate will not be meeting in the coming days. This is an adjournment and is not challengeable in court the way the NLRB recess appointments were because both bodies have agreed with each other to adjourn.

This is a true recess and an opportunity for the president should he elect to take it -- considering the political realities of the Senate and the position of its majority leader to potentially make a recess appointment.

Keep in mind that this window will close later this month. Then GOP-led House and Senate can effectively block the president with another recess appointment gambit in the future by agreeing to meet every three days, even if members aren’t really here.
 
Saying they proposed what they thought would pass makes it sound like a theoretical exorcise. We know exactly what would pass: Obamacare without the public option. We know this because Ben Nelson, among others, threatened to filibuster if the public option was included. Again, Obamacare passed with no, 0, Republican votes so its impossible that it was the result of the bargaining process. What we have is the most the Democratic senate would accept.

*wikis ben nelson*
United States Senator from Nebraska
In office January 3, 2001 – January 3, 2013
CEO of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners
Assumed office January 18, 2013

Like. Seriously? Two weeks?


Oh gods. The turtle is indeed a slimy fucking bastard. That's freaking beautiful. Both sides get what they want.
To detail: given that McConnel isn't usually stupid (and his open comment on cockblocking any nominee made no fucking tactical sense), it seems that his plan is to force Bams to use the recess to nom anyone he wants. This allows the republicans to save face, reinforces their Emperor Obama narrative, and gives the dems whichever nominee they want. Errybody wins.
 

benjipwns

Banned
*wikis ben nelson*
United States Senator from Nebraska
In office January 3, 2001 – January 3, 2013
CEO of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners
Assumed office January 18, 2013

Like. Seriously? Two weeks?
Don't worry though, he didn't plan to do any lobbying:
Former Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) on Wednesday revealed he would earn nearly $1 million per year in his new job as chief executive of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners (NAIC).

Nelson, a centrist Democrat who retired from the Senate in January, told reporters on a press call that he does not plan to lobby the government as leader of the organization. That will be left to the association’s staff,

...

The two-term Nebraska senator has held high-ranking positions at NAIC before, serving as its executive vice president from 1982 to 1985.
 

benjipwns

Banned
Some of that is definitely a little on the aspirational side of practicality, but a lot of it is also roughly in line with or only marginally better than current plans.

Dropping greenhouse gas emissions 30% from 2005 levels by 2025? We hit 9% by 2013. I believe we are tracking for 17% by 2020 with current plans.

The stated solar power goals of 140 GWh or 500m panels will require congressional action to renew some tax credits, but we're on pace to reach 30% of her goal by the end of this year. Even if we can only manage to maintain this year's installation rates with none of the growth previously seen year-over-year, we'd top 70% of the goal.

The gist of most of this is quite simply, continuing on Obama's path with the optimistic goal of improving such plans where possible.
So the worst Sanders can do is what Hillary proposes as the ideal.

Oh gods. The turtle is indeed a slimy fucking bastard. That's freaking beautiful. Both sides get what they want.
To detail: given that McConnel isn't usually stupid (and his open comment on cockblocking any nominee made no fucking tactical sense), it seems that his plan is to force Bams to use the recess to nom anyone he wants. This allows the republicans to save face, reinforces their Emperor Obama narrative, and gives the dems whichever nominee they want. Errybody wins.
The recess started before Scalia died.

Unless you're implying...

...

...

gmbp4um1z1htfvs95fbm.jpg
 

Yoda

Member
I appreciate Sanders making Hilary go more to the left, but this guy in the general would be scary. Democrats can't afford to lose this election.

Hillary is being investigated by the FBI, chances are IF something comes of it, it'd be a small reprimand, but that won't change the optics. The Republicans would have a field day of playing up the "non trust-worthy" narrative. So by the same logic nominating Hillary comes with the probability of a looming political nightmare, and when it was nothing more than speculation she handled it poorly. Sanders has the weakness that older voters recoil at the word socialism, but the more the media attempts to derail his campaign with the label the more it becomes baked in, and thus a less potent attack. I'd image most of the people who view the label as a deal-breaker are already NOT voting democratic.
 
NH is kind of a perfect storm to work against Hillary. Sanders is already heavily favored here as a matter of not only demographics but also being from neighboring Vermont. On top of that, his supporters are probably fired up to deliver a big win in NH after narrowly losing Iowa for reasons they perceive as being coin-flip related. They're keenly aware of the fact that a few votes really can make the difference. And to make matters worse, Hillary supporters are probably not that enthusiastic today because Hillary already won Iowa (albeit barely) and no one expects her to win NH or even come close, so I could see some people who were leaning Hillary just staying home, especially given some inclement weather across the state today.

Factor that all together and I expect Bernie to win on the upper end of what's expected. Probably something like 22-23 points.


I forgot to find this post after the results first came in, but I'd still like to cash in on some belated bragging rights. I guessed 22-23 points and Bernie won by 22.4 :D
 
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