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PoliGAF 2016 |OT| Ask us about our performance with Latinos in Nevada

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C

Cybit

FGC Waterboy
Cesare Borgia said:
It's also how you end up calling black kids "hyper-predators," passing a draconian Crime bill, and putting 100,000 hastily trained cops on the streets. Politics is about pressure, and panic. When politicians sense emergencies they spring into action to save their ass. It's why politicians go crazy over ebola, ISIS, and other issues that scare citizens. Likewise, crime became such a dominant issue that it made politicians over-react.

My fear is that as racial issues become hotter and if crime rises, all the potential for progress will die. Republicans seem more than willing to destroy any hope for major criminal justice reform and blame a President Hillary+Obama for police murders, for instance. And if that happens I'd expect Hillary's tone on the issue to begin to change for the worse.

I don't take many things personal in politics. You'll be sold down the river if you become a liability. It's the business.
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I think you and I are pretty much on the same mind-set of this. I'm not generally a Michael Moore fan; but the bit in Bowling for Columbine about Fear being such a driving factor for US politics has always stuck with me. (The first really political thing I was ever involved with was school shootings and school safety post-Columbine). It's why I'm always saying "hold the eff up" before going down some path, because we're really bad at overreacting a) after the nick of time, Shakespeare style and b) in generally the worst way possible when it comes to domestic policies.

Aside: While back folks asked why I think Vox is fairly stupid when it comes to identity politics stuff?

It's stupid shit like this

http://www.vox.com/2016/2/17/11024092/clinton-albright-steinem

That article's premise is "young women (20-35 year olds) are too young to have experienced true sexism, so they don't appreciate Clinton".

I understand where the term Vox-splain comes from, now.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I just can't see endorsements mattering anywhere near as much today as they did a decade ago because of instant information/news from the Internet.
 
H

Holmes

Member
Plinko said:
Serious question:

Do endorsements really matter? I mean, are a statistically viable group of people going to seriously say, "Oh wow--well, I WAS going to vote for Trump because he is antiestablishment, but now that Nikki Haley supports Rubio, I will too?"
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Well, endorsements matter when they're from superdelegates.
 
U

ugaboga232

Member
Fear is what drives humans, and we are not good at being logically fearful (anxiety is one example of this). Flashy things that kill 10 people are viewed as more scary as boring things that kill 100,000.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
Willie D of the Houston-based hip-hop group Geto Boys told Yahoo News and Finance Anchor Bianna Golodryga on “Yahoo News Live” that Sen. Ted Cruz owes the group and his fans an apology for using the group’s song in an anti-Hillary Clinton advertisement.

Willie D told Golodryga that the Cruz camp did not alert the Geto Boys before using the song in the ad that is a parody of a scene from the 1999 Mike Judge movie “Office Space.” Willie D said: “I found out like everybody else. This guy didn’t have the common decency to just reach out and say, ‘Hey man, I know you don’t like me. I know I’m the scum of the earth, but please can I use your song?’”

Last week Cruz communications director Rick Tyler spoke to Golodryga and called the ad “creative.” Willie D’s response: “I think it’s blasphemy. Our fans and the fans of ‘Office Space,’ Mike Judge, they have an image of great art in their head and when he put that ad out, it pretty much blemished that image. Now it’s associated with some garbage.”

Willie D does not relate to Cruz’s family story either. He said, “I just don’t see how this guy could be emotional or empathetic towards anybody because I don’t believe he’s all the way human. I don’t even think the dude has a heart.” He continued, “I think he’s the Tin Man. I don’t think he has a heart. He’s a self-aggrandizing, insufferable douchebag.”

The hip-hop artist did not know much about Senator Cruz before the advertisement came out. Why? He said, “Nobody really pays attention to Ted Cruz.” He continued, “Even Donald Trump doesn’t like him. … That says a lot for Donald Trump, to say somebody doesn’t like somebody with all of the people who don’t like him. That says a lot. This guy is even less likeable than Donald Trump.”

Willie D’s message to Senator Cruz: “You owe us an apology. You owe our fans an apology. I want an apology, Ted.”

He concluded: “To say that we should be grateful for someone basically taking a dump on our music. That’s saying that imagine if somebody mugs you and then they told you, ‘Well, you should be happy that you got mugged.’ At least people know who you are now. That’s crazy.”
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https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/geto-boys-willie-d-to-ted-cruz-you-owe-us-an-215837917.html

Oh My Fucking God, that is some ether from Willie D.

Willie D officially in the Awesome People Hall of Fame.
 
W

WayneMorse

Banned
johnsmith said:
Apparently she killed it at that Harlem speech

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/how-hillary-clinton-won-harlem.html
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Judging from Bill's presidency she's going to walk back all of these promises when she's president and further drive black American into deepening poverty and higher rates of incarceration. Wouldn't even be surprised if she dabbles in the "blacks need to take the lead in improving their communities" argument when she's elected.

I mean for fuck's sake Bill Clinton did more harm to black American than any President after World War 2. Woodrow Wilson could only dream of the system of white supremacy Clinton enacted through welfare reform and mass incarceration. It's a shame the black administrative class heels to the Clinton's for political favors while holding back the communities they run.

And the whole "understanding their world" shit was exactly what Bill did in 1992.
 
E

eBay Huckster

Member
tmarg said:
When was the last election were there wasn't a musician who got mad about a candidate using their song?
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I mean, there's a difference between "I don’t think he has a heart. He’s a self-aggrandizing, insufferable douchebag." and (just to riff from what's probably the best-known example of this, even though the Reagan campaign didn't actually use Born in the USA) "The President was mentioning my name the other day, and I kinda got to wondering what his favorite album musta been. I don't think it was the Nebraska album. I don't think he's been listening to this one."

With one, it's more of a "you do realize this is exactly the opposite of what you think it is, right?". With the other, it's "you are literally human garbage".
 
O

OrangeGrayBlue

Member
Plinko said:
Serious question:

Do endorsements really matter? I mean, are a statistically viable group of people going to seriously say, "Oh wow--well, I WAS going to vote for Trump because he is antiestablishment, but now that Nikki Haley supports Rubio, I will too?"
Click to expand...

I think they can give momentum to a certain candidate, and that matters. Most people don't want to feel like they're riding a train to nowhere, so a series of endorsements can project the idea that X candidate is on the path to victory.
 
T

tmarg

Member
I will say its surprising that candidates haven't learned to avoid the music thing. It happens every damn cycle. Just put together a list of artists who support you and use their music. If you can't find any, you probably weren't competitive anyway.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
ivysaur12 said:
lol
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I forgot who, but today I read an article from one of the polls that showed if you inform the people being polled that the average and longest wait for a SCOTUS nominee is 25 and 125, the polls start moving towards yes.

Basically, all the Dems vote yes, some indies move with them, and the GOP hold back.
 
D

danm999

Member
I just wonder how much getting called out by a musician matters honestly.

It's red meat for Democrats but I doubt many GOP voters are going to give a shit what Willie D thinks.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Dana Bash: "I think the other thing we need to keep in mind when we're talking about Ted Cruz, is that he is really getting it hard on both sides."
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
Cybit said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories#Origins_of_the_claims[/url]
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Supporters doesn't mean Hillary or her campaign. It means random nutjobs like the ones behind hillaryis44

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/
We rate this claim False.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.
 
M

Makai

Member
DONALD TRUMP: We went after Iraq, they did not knock down the World Trade Center. It wasn’t the Iraqis that knocked down the World Trade Center, we went after Iraq, we decimated the country, Iran’s taking over, okay.

But it wasn’t the Iraqis, you will find out who really knocked down the World Trade Center. Because they have papers in there that are very secret, you may find it’s the Saudis, okay? But you will find out.

But when I look at a guy like Lindsey Graham, you'll end up being over in that war forever, you'll start World War Three.
Click to expand...

If Trump is elected, he will declassify the rest of the 9/11 commission.
 
B

brainchild

Banned
johnsmith said:
Supporters doesn't mean Hillary or her campaign. It means random nutjobs like the ones behind hillaryis44

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/
We rate this claim False.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.
Click to expand...

If only this wisdom was applied when talking about Bernie supporters.
 
N

NeoXChaos

Member
johnsmith said:
Supporters doesn't mean Hillary or her campaign. It means random nutjobs like the ones behind hillaryis44

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ump/hillary-clinton-obama-birther-fact-check/
We rate this claim False.

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/07/was-hillary-clinton-the-original-birther/

Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.
Click to expand...

bernieis45 will pop up eventually.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Ben Carson suggesting there are people on the Supreme Court that don't love America. Hoo boy.
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
Cybit said:
I vaguely remember Obama being shitted on by liberals for about 5 years for not getting "enough done" when he had the house and senate, up until about the 2016 State of the Union, when he decided to swag out on everyone and remind everyone of everything he's accomplished.
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Me, too. I'm amazed at how much he's accomplished while only having House & Senate for two years. The distance of history will be kind.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
So, somewhat non-sequitur, and please note I have absolutely no interest in hearing any more bickering on any particular remarks in question, this is more a general discussion point.
But, on whether being of X identity group in itself is a "qualification," or should be important, my view is that it can and should be. But it also may not be of relevance at all.

To me, it's important that Sam Smith can win Grammys singing about boys or Ellen is beamed into living rooms daily talking about her wife, or any number of things that mere months, years, decades ago would be unimaginable. It will be important if and when one day someone can be a viable Presidential candidate, while being openly gay. In the same way, it seems perfectly valid to me that a woman may view Clinton being a woman as a qualification, a black person may view Barack Obama's race as a qualification. An Indian or black woman may view Kamala Harris's ethnicity and gender as being a qualification, if she one day runs. Alongside all the other considerations that consciously and subconsciously come into play in these decisions.

Having a shared identity can be important. It can be a qualification to have lived experiences that mirror your own and to have to live with the consequences alongside you of any policies adopted. It can be a qualification to be able to bring discussion of your issues and the underlying discrimination that still exists to the fore. The symbolism can be important to be able to show your child that there's nothing they can't aspire to, or really in the cases of some identity groups, to be able to show your child that who they are is okay with the world.

I think it's also perfectly fine if a person of X identity group thinks that identity is unimportant. Although, if that view stems from the idea that we live in a post-racial, post-gender, post-everything else society, I'd disagree with that premise. And I'd also disagree with telling someone that it should or shouldn't matter to them, because it does or doesn't matter to you.
 
U

ugaboga232

Member
shinra-bansho said:
So, somewhat non-sequitur, and please note I have absolutely no interest in hearing any more bickering on any particular remarks in question, this is more a general discussion point.
But, on whether being of X identity group in itself is a "qualification," or should be important, my view is that it can and should be. But it also may not be of relevance at all.

To me, it's important that Sam Smith can win Grammys singing about boys or Ellen is beamed into living rooms daily talking about her wife, or any number of things that mere months, years, decades ago would be unimaginable. It will be important if and when one day someone can be a viable Presidential candidate, while being openly gay. In the same way, it seems perfectly valid to me that a woman may view Clinton being a woman as a qualification, a black person may view Barack Obama's race as a qualification. An Indian or black woman may view Kamala Harris's ethnicity and gender as being a qualification, if she one day runs. Alongside all the other considerations that consciously and subconsciously come into play in these decisions.

Having a shared identity can be important. It can be a qualification to have lived experiences that mirror your own and to have to live with the consequences alongside you of any policies adopted. It can be a qualification to be able to bring discussion of your issues and the underlying discrimination that still exists to the fore. The symbolism can be important to be able to show your child that there's nothing they can't aspire to, or really in the cases of some identity groups, to be able to show your child that who they are is okay with the world.

I think it's also perfectly fine if a person of X identity group thinks that identity is unimportant. Although, if that view stems from the idea that we live in a post-racial, post-gender, post-everything else society, I'd disagree with that premise. And I'd also disagree with telling someone that it should or shouldn't matter to them, because it does or doesn't matter to you.
Click to expand...

Please teach me how to be as eloquent as you are.
 
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