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[noshten]

I don't mean to be crass but do you?

Too often the only thing I see presented as evidence are surveys about feelings about the US, or a quote or two. Ive never seen any evidence it's increased terrorism at all.

Again im not trying to attack you or anything but I don't really think there is much evidence for this in any real sense which is why I think it's more a moralistic argument.

Death From Above: How American Drone Strikes Are Devastating Yemen

The people of Yemen can hear destruction before it arrives. In cities, towns and villages across this country, which hangs off the southern end of the Arabian Peninsula, the air buzzes with the sound of American drones flying overhead. The sound is a constant and terrible reminder: a robot plane, acting on secret intelligence, may calculate that the man across from you at the coffee shop, or the acquaintance with whom you've shared a passing word on the street, is an Al Qaeda operative. This intelligence may be accurate or it may not, but it doesn't matter. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, the chaotic buzzing above sharpens into the death-herald of an incoming missile.

Such quite literal existential uncertainty is coming at a deep psychological cost for the Yemeni people. For Americans, this military campaign is an abstraction. The drone strikes don't require U.S. troops on the ground, and thus are easy to keep out of sight and out of mind. Over half of Yemen's 24.8 million citizens – militants and civilians alike – are impacted every day. A war is happening, and one of the unforeseen casualties is the Yemeni mind.

The drone strikes don't require U.S. troops on the ground, and thus are easy to keep out of sight and out of mind. Over half of Yemen's 24.8 million citizens – militants and civilians alike – are impacted every day. A war is happening, and one of the unforeseen casualties is the Yemeni mind.

Symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, trauma and anxiety are becoming rampant in the different corners of the country where drones are active. "Drones hover over an area for hours, sometimes days and weeks," said Rooj Alwazir, a Yemeni-American anti-drone activist and cofounder of Support Yemen, a media collective raising awareness about issues afflicting the country. Yemenis widely describe suffering from constant sleeplessness, anxiety, short-tempers, an inability to concentrate and, unsurprisingly, paranoia.

Alwazir recalled a Yemeni villager telling her that the drones "are looking inside our homes and even at our women.'" She says that, "this feeling of infringement of privacy, combined with civilian casualties and constant fear and anxiety has a profound long time psychological effect on those living under drones."

Last year, London-based forensic psychologist Peter Schaapveld presented research he'd conducted on the psychological impact of drone strikes in Yemen to a British parliamentary sub-committee. He reported that 92 percent of the population sample he examined was found to be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder – with children being the demographic most significantly affected. Women, he found, claimed to be miscarrying from their fear of drones. "This is a population that by any figure is hugely suffering," Schaapveld said. The fear of drones, he added, "is traumatizing an entire generation."

 

[User 463088]

True story, I was kvetching to a buddy in liberal arts about having to choose between like 3 co-op job offers and he's just looking at me with this pained expression on his face and he goes "you guys know how fucking obnoxious it is when you bitch about having too many job offers, right?"

I'm a Liberal Arts major and I had to look up the word kvetching. Truly, my degree was worthwhile.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Death From Above: How American Drone Strikes Are Devastating Yemen

Again. Is there more terrorism coming from Yemen BECAUSE of the drones?

If you want to argue that it's immoral (which is all that argument is doing) that's different than not effective.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm a Liberal Arts major and I had to look up the word kvetching. Truly, my degree was worthwhile.

I'm Jewish, I have an unfair advantage at Yiddish.

Such an excellent word.

 

[noshten]

Again. Is there more terrorism coming from Yemen BECAUSE of the drones?

If you want to argue that it's immoral (which is all that argument is doing) that's different than not effective.

Maybe read the article.

 

[ampere]

It's cause STEM nerds don't have social skills.

Amirite ?

I wish I had a STEM degree.

I have an engineering degree and I've been unemployed almost a year lol

It's not my degree's fault though, I get discouraged by a lot of job listings so I don't apply to nearly enough jobs

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm a Liberal Arts major and I had to look up the word kvetching. Truly, my degree was worthwhile.

#GoyimProblems

 

[User 463088]

I'm Jewish, I have an unfair advantage at Yiddish.

Such an excellent word.

My Bernie Bro is Jewish, and he's like "Why didn't you just ask me?" Because I don't need no mans to mansplain things to me. I love the word. Totally going to ... try and use it, butcher it horribly, and probably offend someone.

Also, the DSCC/DNC need to stop trying to hit me up for money. I'm too poor to give them money when Comrade Bernie is going to steal all my coin.

 

[BoboBrazil]

lol

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Maybe read the article.

I just looked over it and I see no evidence it's hurt our counterterrorism position.

Unless I'm missing something (tbf it's midnight so I could have)

Again. I understand how people can read that and say its immoral, I'm not in 100% agreement about everything in the drone program, but I have yet to see anything proving it's made us less safe.

I have no doubt it's not great for many Yemeni

 

[NYCmetsfan]

My Bernie Bro is Jewish, and he's like "Why didn't you just ask me?" Because I don't need no mans to mansplain things to me. I love the word. Totally going to ... try and use it, butcher it horribly, and probably offend someone.

Also, the DSCC/DNC need to stop trying to hit me up for money. I'm too poor to give them money when Comrade Bernie is going to steal all my coin.

They called me last week. I've never been called before. I'd take that as a good sign. It's early build that war chest

 

[FiggyCal]

lol

That counts as a joke?

 

[User 463088]

I have an engineering degree and I've been unemployed almost a year lol

It's not my degree's fault though, I get discouraged by a lot of job listings so I don't apply to nearly enough jobs

I know that feel brah. I apply for shit tier jobs because I'm too afraid to take a chance on something. I have a friend who's a manager at a local small call center. They outsource their QA, and my friend wants me to put in a bid to do it for them and start my own QA/consulting thing on the side. I'm pretty much guaranteed to get it if I do, but I'm terrified of trying because I could succeed just as easily as I could fail. And that shit terrifies me.

 

[Makai]

STEM graduates busy with other things . . . like working.

It's cause STEM nerds don't have social skills.

Amirite ?

I wish I had a STEM degree.

I did both and I feel like liberal arts was more valuable. I used to work with a bunch of people who went to coding bootcamps which didn't have liberal arts electives. Generally low awareness of sociological issues. Few negotiated salary or protested regular unpaid overtime. I was paid on the higher end and worked the least amount of hours - liberal arts gave me enough familiarity with labor dynamics to know I had more leverage than my managers. So, yeah. You're both right. Overworked nerds. 8|

 

[Makai]

My school paper had a section dedicated to kvetching

 

[User 463088]

That counts as a joke?

Of course a woman's sexuality is a joke to the GOP. Ugh.

 

[BoboBrazil]

That counts as a joke?

Was it actually a joke or did the writer just assume it was due to how ridiculous it was?

 

[noshten]

I just looked over it and I see no evidence it's hurt our counterterrorism position.

Unless I'm missing something (tbf it's midnight so I could have)

How exactly do you think a population of young people suffering to PTSD who had relatives killed by drone strikes view ISIL or Al Qaeda compared to the nation controlling those drones? Like I said people fail to realize the real blow back of the policy being undertaken in the Middle East and how it fuels terrorism.

 

[User 463088]

I did both and I feel like liberal arts was more valuable. I used to work with a bunch of people who went to coding bootcamps which didn't have liberal arts electives. Generally low awareness of sociological issues. Few negotiated salary or protested regular unpaid overtime. I was paid on the higher end and worked the least amount of hours - liberal arts gave me enough familiarity with labor dynamics to know I had more leverage than my managers. So, yeah. You're both right. Overworked nerds. 8|

I was on a pre-med track, and totally gave up on it when my dad got sick (I was his primary care giver because my mom made a lot more money than I did). I don't regret it, not for a minute, but by the time I was able to go back to school...I felt it was too late to concentrate on being in school for another 10 years. I also hated chemistry, so that didn't help. I kinda settled into what I did simply because I was good enough at it, and I got a scholarship to help pay for it. I'm still in a fuck ton of debt because my scholarship had a time limit on it that I didn't know about.

I have a minor in sociology, though. I've been toying with the idea of getting my Masters. MSW was on the list of ideas, as was PoliSci, or just getting my Masters in English so that I could teach at the community college level.

 

[lastflowers]

True story, I was kvetching to a buddy in liberal arts about having to choose between like 3 co-op job offers and he's just looking at me with this pained expression on his face and he goes "you guys know how fucking obnoxious it is when you bitch about having too many job offers, right?"

LinkedIn is almost considered work for me because of all the recruiters. Crafting a respectful response to each interesting one...yeesh!

 

[B-Dubs]

Was it actually a joke or did the writer just assume it was due to how ridiculous it was?

It's Cruz, who can tell?

 

[teiresias]

I did both and I feel like liberal arts was more valuable. I used to work with a bunch of people who went to coding bootcamps which didn't have liberal arts electives. Generally low awareness of sociological issues. Few negotiated salary or protested regular unpaid overtime. I was paid on the higher end and worked the least amount of hours - liberal arts gave me enough familiarity with labor dynamics to know I had more leverage than my managers. So, yeah. You're both right. Overworked nerds. 8|

I won't make excuses for STEM majors that don't take their electives outside the STEM area seriously. I made a concerted effort to take arts classes, film, music, mainly because I actually started as a music education major and then moved out of that. I didn't take many electives in history and sociology areas though beyond some formal debate and psychology courses that were required. I do think salary negotiation skills has more to do with social ability and less to do with knowing the dynamics of employee/employer power. Then again, I don't have to negotiate salary so it's really not my area.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

How exactly do you think a population of young people suffering to PTSD who had relatives killed by drone strikes view ISIL or Al Qaeda compared to the nation controlling those drones? Like I said people fail to realize the real blow back of the policy being undertaken in the Middle East and how it fuels terrorism.

I don't know.

I think assuming that they're all going to join al Qaeda is a huge leap, and again, something I don't recall any evidence for. I mean that's not really how anxiety works

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Trump really needs to stop peddling in this bullshit and come out with an ad saying "Cruz is bought and sold by Wall Street. Cruz wants to cut taxes for Wall Street bankers and he'll pay for it by putting in a 19% sales tax! Oh, he says that businesses will pay for the tax, but he doesn't know business like me. Businesses will pass that tax onto consumers, guaranteed. Ted Cruz wants to make everything that seniors buy more expensive just to give his friends at Goldman a tax break."

It's simple, it's entirely truthful, it will tank Ted. I have no faith that Trump is smart enough to be able to articulate this, but it's the exact thing he needs to do.

 

[noshten]

I don't know.

I think assuming that they're all going to join al Qaeda is a huge leap, and again, something I don't recall any evidence for.

The policy isn’t just killing terrorists. It’s creating them.

“The drone campaign right now really is only about killing,” Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told The Intercept. “When you hear the phrase ‘capture/kill,’ capture is actually a misnomer. … We don’t capture people anymore.” He adds, “Our entire Middle East policy seems to be based on firing drones.”

Our counterterrorism efforts, in other words, have been reduced to showering remote communities with missiles — which sounds a lot like fighting terrorism with terrorism. We’re killing people almost indiscriminately and providing otherwise non-threatening members of society a reason to fight back. You cannot fight terrorism with terrorism, as four former drone pilots recently warned in the wake of the Paris attacks. They suggested that ISIS is using the program as a recruiting tool.

And what about in the heartland of the drone program? According to a report from the U.S. Institute for Peace on the Hindu Kush valley, “The al Qaeda presence there now is larger than when U.S. counterterrorism forces arrived in 2002.”

http://fpif.org/five-signs-the-drone-war-is-undermining-the-war-on-terror/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sis-recruitment-tool-air-force-whistleblowers

Drone “blowback” is real

A new analysis questions that assumption. Published in the Middle East Policy Journal, the article looks at Yemen and concludes that increased drone strikes “will produce distinct forms of blowback,” the CIA-coined term describing the unintended actions that harm America resulting from U.S. policies. Overall, “this will manifest itself in terms of increased recruitment for al-Qaeda or affiliated groups and a reduction of the Yemeni leadership’s ability to govern, increasing competition from alternative groups.”

Written by three scholars at the University of Arizona, “Drone Warfare in Yemen” finds five distinct forms of blowback:

- Increased ability of Al Qaeda to recruit new members, particularly those who had loved ones killed in drone attacks
- Decreased U.S. accountability, resulting from control of the drone program oscillating between the CIA and Joint Chiefs of Staff
- Continued destabilization of Yemen
- An increasingly precarious alliance between the American and Yemeni governments

The authors make the compelling points that drone programs rely on the support of the local regime. Whatever benefits this has over the short-term, over the long-term it makes those regimes lose legitimacy in the eyes of their own people. Such a development can be deadly — al-Qaida first declared war on the United States in no small part because it saw Saudi Arabia and Egypt as puppets of the Americans.

It is no coincidence that the increased frequency of drone attacks after 2009 coincided with the domestic unrest in Yemen, the authors say. On June 3, 2011, the leader of Yemen, Ali Abadallah Saleh, who cooperated with the United States even as he tolerated al-Qaida elements, was injured in attacks on his compound, compelling him to go to Saudi Arabia and New York City for medical treatment. A new government may come to power that is less hospitable to American interests, as was the case in Egypt. The United States should welcome a government beholden to its people — but the result may not always be so benign, as was the case with Iran in 1979.

In addition, heavy reliance on drones may have the perverse effect of creating safe havens for terrorists or their supporters. Robert Grenier, head of the CIA’s counterterrorism center from 2004 to 2006 and former CIA station chief in Pakistan, explained in June how this happens:

That brings you to a place where young men, who are typically armed, are in the same area and may hold these militants in a certain form of high regard. If you strike them indiscriminately you are running the risk of creating a terrific amount of popular anger. They have tribes and clans and large families. Now all of a sudden you have a big problem … I am very concerned about the creation of a larger terrorist safe haven in Yemen.

In destroying the state from above, terrorists can fill in the void on the ground. That’s just what happened with Ansar al-Sharia, a Taliban-like group in Yemen, which has seized parts of that country and was only recently formed. “The extensive use of [drones] for executive executions and signature strikes with Yemeni government partners is a dangerous precedent that lends itself to the creation of local-emirate enclaves,” write the journal article’s authors.

Drone strikes may be necessary if the most dangerous al-Qaida leaders such as Ayman al-Zawahiri are in sight and cannot be captured. As a previous article by one of the professors puts it, “if extrajudicial dispatching of high-value targets is a goal, such targets are best deal with as Osama bin Laden was—through face-to-face assaults by crack JSOC troops based on reliable intelligence.” The promiscuous use of drones is not only unnecessary and brutal, it is dangerous to America. And it hampers the political reform that has showed so much promise in the Middle East.

http://www.salon.com/2012/09/05/drone_blowback_is_real/

Notice how this was back in 2012 and ISIL and ISIS aren't even mentioned. Saying that drones aren't a major recruitment tool for terrorist organizations in already unstable countries is frankly a bit deaf.

 

[B-Dubs]

Trump really needs to stop peddling in this bullshit and come out with an ad saying "Cruz is bought and sold by Wall Street. Cruz wants to cut taxes for Wall Street bankers and he'll pay for it by putting in a 19% sales tax! Oh, he says that businesses will pay for the tax, but he doesn't know business like me. Businesses will pass that tax onto consumers, guaranteed. Ted Cruz wants to make everything that seniors buy more expensive just to give his friends at Goldman a tax break."

It's simple, it's entirely truthful, it will tank Ted. I have no faith that Trump is smart enough to be able to articulate this, but it's the exact thing he needs to do.

That's not skeezey enough for Trump. He'll just hit Cruz over the head with the affair thing until he drops. That'll also work because it hits him in the base of his support.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Trump really needs to stop peddling in this bullshit and come out with an ad saying "Cruz is bought and sold by Wall Street. Cruz wants to cut taxes for Wall Street bankers and he'll pay for it by putting in a 19% sales tax! Oh, he says that businesses will pay for the tax, but he doesn't know business like me. Businesses will pass that tax onto consumers, guaranteed. Ted Cruz wants to make everything that seniors buy more expensive just to give his friends at Goldman a tax break."

It's simple, it's entirely truthful, it will tank Ted. I have no faith that Trump is smart enough to be able to articulate this, but it's the exact thing he needs to do.

You would think he would make a bigger deal out of Cruz's wife working for goldman sachs.

 

[Tesseract]

Clinton is being protected by corporate media (who frame questions for her, against Bernie). Bernie needs to fight back harder, it's him or Hillary. Cnn's own polls put Bernie way above hilary versus trump or cruz, but they never mention this.

Bernie brews need to get active, it's time we protest her campaign. We need to run this to the convention, where Bernie can make demands on behalf of us. Education and healthcare are rights.

Bbq

 

[ampere]

That counts as a joke?

The joke is when people forget Cruz is worse than Trump

 

[FiggyCal]

I'm sure Florida voters will love giving up that 6% sales tax in exchange for Cruz's dumb plan.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The policy isn’t just killing terrorists. It’s creating them.


http://fpif.org/five-signs-the-drone-war-is-undermining-the-war-on-terror/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sis-recruitment-tool-air-force-whistleblowers

Drone “blowback” is real



http://www.salon.com/2012/09/05/drone_blowback_is_real/

Notice how this was back in 2012 and ISIL and ISIS aren't even mentioned. Saying that drones aren't a major recruitment tool for terrorist organizations in already unstable countries is frankly a bit deaf.

This doesn't say that the policy is making things worse. It says AQ might be able to recruit some people who have been affected.

Again, I've seen no evidence it's made the problem worse. I've seen claims, but no evidence.

And the vast majority of that seems to be conjecture.

I'm not trying to cheerlead every drone strike but to say I don't see evidence it's not working and I don't believe people really oppose it on those grounds. I think they're is a fine moral argument against it. I just think it's very disingenuous to argue the main reason to be against it is blowback when besides anecdotal tales I've seen no proof or even much evidence that terrorism is getting worse because of the strikes.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Same day they got the matching temp tattoos

Oh shit, this is was a Thursday, one of the days that he was seen leaving a hotel each week with another woman in the video sent to Brietbart.

 

[eBay Huckster]

so this may be my favorite thing about this week's GOP developments

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

That's not skeezey enough for Trump. He'll just hit Cruz over the head with the affair thing until he drops. That'll also work because it hits him in the base of his support.

Trump is a dumbass if he prefers the National Enquirer+NeoNazisjerkingofftoanimeonTwitter smears on Cruz over attacking Cruz's genuinely horrible tax plan which kills seniors, I'm sorry.

 

[B-Dubs]

Trump is a dumbass if he prefers the National Enquirer+NeoNazisjerkingofftoanimeonTwitter smears on Cruz over attacking Cruz's genuinely horrible tax plan which kills seniors, I'm sorry.

I don't disagree, but let's also be real: the GOP doesn't give a fuck that his tax plan will kill people, these are the people who cheered letting people die in the streets four years ago. It's a bonus for them.

 

[noshten]

This doesn't say that the policy is making things worse. It says AQ might be able to recruit some people who have been affected.

Again, I've seen no evidence it's made the problem worse. I've seen claims, but non evidence

And the vast majority of that seems to be conjecture.

Right.. no evidence at all.... enjoy your privileged skies where no drones fly and where your kids aren't being approached by terrorist recruiters.

I'm not trying to cheerlead every drone strike but to say I don't see evidence it's not working and I don't believe people really oppose it on those grounds. I think they're is a fine moral argument against it. I just think it's very disingenuous to argue the main reason to be against it is blowback when besides anecdotal tales I've seen no proof or even much evidence that terrorism is getting worse because of the strikes.

How about the fact - that instead of stumping out terrorism the War on Terror has directly lead to this?

Like I've said when you have at best questionable intelligence and are operating in an already chaotic state - drones lead to instability. That instability, that fear leads to far more people being susceptible to radicalization. And we've seen it as country after country have fallen into chaos.

And yes you do sound like a cheerleader for drone strikes.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Trump is a dumbass if he prefers the National Enquirer+NeoNazisjerkingofftoanimeonTwitter smears on Cruz over attacking Cruz's genuinely horrible tax plan which kills seniors, I'm sorry.

You're aware that Cruz's tax plan gives GOP voters giant, massive boners, right?

 

[BoboBrazil]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

You're aware that Cruz's tax plan gives GOP voters giant, massive boners, right?

I highly doubt that actually. Donors, yes, but I'm pretty sure that most GOP voters aren't fiscally conservative. Seniors make up a lot of GOP voters and they're not going to be happy with Cruz's tax plan at all.

 

[B-Dubs]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

I highly doubt that actually. Donors, yes, but I'm pretty sure that most GOP voters aren't fiscally conservative. Seniors make up a lot of GOP voters and they're not going to be happy with Cruz's tax plan at all.

They cheered letting people die in the streets. So long as black and brown people are getting fucked, they don't care.

 

[Makai]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

The video is just the two walking out of a hotel.

 

[User 463088]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

And to think I never thought there could be a film more disgusting than the last Fantastic 4 movie.

 

[T'Zariah]

They cheered letting people die in the streets. So long as black and brown people are getting fucked, they don't care.

Imagine if the sex tape leaked, on the internet.

MAXIMUM FUCKERY

 

[VendettaRed07]

How many Republican's actually advocated for a flat tax this cycle?

Cruz
Paul
Carson
Fiorina said something about making the tax code 2 pages so farmers could read it or something so i'll count that.

Am I missing anyone?

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I wonder if he also sexTed.

 

[FiggyCal]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

If this was fiction, gawker would gain ownership of the video sell it and make enough money to cover their Hulk Hogan lawsuit.

 

[ampere]

Yo there might be a sex tape of Cruz and one of the ladies http://gawker.com/people-have-been-talking-about-the-thing-with-ted-cru-1767029781

No

I don't even want that to be a real thing

 

[studyguy]

No, I'll take their word on it.
Chances are good it's just a security tape of Cruz and some woman walking out of a hotel alone, but I'd rather not even risk it.

If this was fiction, gawker would gain ownership of the video sell it and make enough money to cover their Hulk Hogan lawsuit.

Or just release it and get sued to the ground twice I guess...

 

[Makai]

No

I don't even want that to be a real thing

You are lyin'

 

[johnsmith]

No, I'll take their word on it.
Chances are good it's just a security tape of Cruz and some woman walking out of a hotel alone, but I'd rather not even risk it.

Eddie Murphy, huh? Are you implying one of the women is a transgender prostitute?