Knuckle Sandwich
Member
This isn't her playing 11 dimensional chess. She fucked up.
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PoliGAF 2016 |OT3| You know what they say about big Michigans - big Florida
- Thread starter Spoiled Milk
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This isn't her playing 11 dimensional chess. She fucked up.
Macho Madness
Member
Considering how quickly she retracted the statement, I really do think it was a moment of unacceptable ignorance as opposed to a coldly calculated bait.
I don't think this gaffe will have a notable impact on any of the candidates going forward.
aspiegamer
Member
Woah. That's as direct you'll ever see a political apology. Warranted, of course. This isn't the sort of thing that's going to tank someone, though. I doubt it'll even get much mainstream media coverage, especially with an apology so quick. Reactions here seem a bit extreme.
STILL! Ugh. Come on, Hillary. You're better than this. I don't even think you meant it! Just trying to speak nicely of the dead and whatnot. But offer bullshit praise in less controversial areas, please. You hire a lot of people to look out for you to try to make sure you don't say stupid shit like this in the first place.
STILL! Ugh. Come on, Hillary. You're better than this. I don't even think you meant it! Just trying to speak nicely of the dead and whatnot. But offer bullshit praise in less controversial areas, please. You hire a lot of people to look out for you to try to make sure you don't say stupid shit like this in the first place.
Mercury Fred
Banned
Then she'd better get out in front of this story and push that plank and beef it up more than what's there now.
I've been a Hillary supporter all along, but I'm considering dropping that over this mess. I'm nauseated at what a crass fuck up this is.
As much I would like to, I'm not sure I can buy that she mixed up AIDS and Alzheimer's. She implies the Reagans helped begin this conversation in the 80s, and they didn't start doing anything about Alzheimer's until after 1994.
Basileus777
Member
It was an awful thing to say and there are gay people in this community with a reason to care about this.
Macho Madness
Member
She'll get questioned about it at the next Town Hall/debate or whatever and clarify she didn't mean what she said and that will likely be it. Where the voters end up feeling about it, I don't know.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The brouhaha about this is way beyond the content of her remarks or her personal record on lgbt rights.
Yeah, after reading her actual quote she makes it contextually clear that she is intending to speak about AIDS. I'll edit that post to fix it.
Its unacceptable ignorance on her part. That said, I don't think this moment will have a lasting impact in results considering her platform holistically and it can't be used against her by Republicans.
But this is a good point as well - and re-reading the quote once again with this in mind I can also see the mistake from this perspective.
Bottom line is, it was a foolish and hurtful gaffe and she should be rightfully criticized for it - but I don't think it is malicious or indicative of her positions on LGBT issues.
It's pretty obviously a massive cock up and not some sort of scheme, there is absolutely no way in which Hillary benefits from this at all. LGBT supporters are going to be pissed that she made the mistake in the first place, and Reagan worshipers are going to be pissed that she apologized.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The fact that she didn't shit on someone the day of their funeral and that being reason to drop support of someone is quite amazing.
It's purity to the extreme. Unless your are going to claim this is representative of Clinton on lgbt rights this is nothing more than a faux pas and an unfortunate comment.
It's purity to the extreme. Unless your are going to claim this is representative of Clinton on lgbt rights this is nothing more than a faux pas and an unfortunate comment.
Officerrob
Banned
I just don't see this having legs. If people are legit upset, they have every right to be, it was a dumb thing to say. With that said, it's my opinion that nobody will be talking about this in a few days
Retromelon
Member
What a choice of words, grandpa. Would you also characterize it as a rumpus, or even a..foofaraw?
Lol her record hasn't mattered to people's narratives
Basileus777
Member
I don't really see much talk of this having electoral implications, well other than someone thinking it was a trap for Bernie. People were mad at the comments themselves.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Kerfuffle
Coriolanus
Banned
buffoonery, even.
Sadly, no. silkworms are only available here in a desiccated variety, to be used as fish bait. Otherwise i'd be all up in that. We got a species of ant that pretty much tastes like popcorn once fried tho.
So your response to a bad statement is you'd rather help hand the election to the people who think gays are subhuman. Maybe you might want to take a chill pill.
Box of Kittens
Banned
To be fair there's a pretty big difference between not shitting on someone the day of their funeral and picking something particularly terrible from their record and praising them for it.
To be clear, I expect the effect of this to be pretty minor given her quick apology, but it was a very dumb thing to say.
User 463088
Banned
It was a stupid statement. She apologized. She didn't double down on it. She didn't equivocate.
Real talk:
The public isn't going to give two shits about this. Most people couldn't care less about modern HIV/AIDS policy, let alone what Reagan didn't do in the 1980s. This wasn't some 11th dimensional chess game. She just misspoke. This isn't some secret window into her soul on LGBT issues. It was dumb as hell, and she apologized for it.
Real talk:
The public isn't going to give two shits about this. Most people couldn't care less about modern HIV/AIDS policy, let alone what Reagan didn't do in the 1980s. This wasn't some 11th dimensional chess game. She just misspoke. This isn't some secret window into her soul on LGBT issues. It was dumb as hell, and she apologized for it.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Oh, did they actually change their minds when that happened?
At first I thought it was her being genuinely, horrifically, unforgivably ignorant about history, but after seeing her original wording I really wouldn't be surprised if she had a brain fart and temporarily mixed up the Reagans' history with AIDS and Alzheimer's and spoke a bit thoughtlessly. The "in particular Mrs. Reagan" part would directly apply to Alzheimer's causes.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
What bothers me most about controversies like this is the general public who likely held similar views so many years ago now pretends it's this horrible crime.
It's fine to criticize the quote but the ammount of outrage is disproportional to where AIDS and LGBT rights were a few years ago. Similar to the criticism on gay marriage and criminal justice.
I don't have a problem with the content of the criticisms but the tone is just so disproportionate and just rubs me as social grandstanding.
It's fine to criticize the quote but the ammount of outrage is disproportional to where AIDS and LGBT rights were a few years ago. Similar to the criticism on gay marriage and criminal justice.
I don't have a problem with the content of the criticisms but the tone is just so disproportionate and just rubs me as social grandstanding.
VendettaRed07
Member
The majority of Americans won't care because if they did then the Reagans and Nancy's death wouldn't be as romanticized as it has. It's not nationally damaging but she should have realized how harmful saying that to her base was
Bernie will absolutely take advantage of this and I hope Maddow throws the book at her
I get needing to praise her today because she was at her funeral service but seriously ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS TOPIC would have been fair game. Guns, jellybeans, I dunno ANYTHING
Bernie will absolutely take advantage of this and I hope Maddow throws the book at her
I get needing to praise her today because she was at her funeral service but seriously ANYTHING OTHER THAN THIS TOPIC would have been fair game. Guns, jellybeans, I dunno ANYTHING
This makes the most sense to me. It's otherwise inexplicable, especially considering that these speeches usually have multiple writers and proofreaders who would have caught the mistake if it was intentional.
Reagan didn't speak about until after that. Their friend (Rock Hudson) was maybe the first high profile celebrity that died from it.
No.
Stop tone policing. People have a right to be upset. It was a boneheaded statement that would be like praising the judge who acquitted George Zimmerman for starting a national conversation on racial violence. I think a lot of people in this thread need to read up on the history involved here. There's a whole lot of pain that runs deep that shouldn't be dismissed. Try to be more intersectional, people.
Basileus777
Member
Who is this general public that is now treating it like a crime? Your generalizations and dismissive/condescending tone in your responses to this are not very productive either. Especially since it's coming off as partisan spin.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
My issue is this. How many have before this controversies arise? This happens a lot more. Its a general social grandstanding which leads to better views but in the heat of things leads to hypocritical condemnations.
Twitter and this thread.
And im not dismissive of the criticisms of the quote but the tone of many who likely aren't LGBT or been super longtime alies and instead seem to often just want to position themselves ahead of controversy rather than really being passionate.
I've done it myself on many issues so it's why I'm criticising it.
Macho Madness
Member
That's my take on it. People have a right to be angry because the Reagans' record on it was just that awful. Praising them for it is the shits.
Voysa Reezun
Banned
That is a powerfully offensive statement, but to give Ms. Clinton the benefit of the doubt, it's awfully hard to find something to praise the Reagans for.
Still, praising the Reagans for bringing HIV/AIDS into the national conversation is only slightly less terrible than praising the Reagans for improving the sex lives of nuns in Central and South America. Were I LGBT, I'd be pissed, too (and honestly, as a black kid in the late '80s, I remember how later on it was also to a small degree a black person disease, so I feel that I can empathize to at least some degree on how LGBT folks feel about that statement).
Still, praising the Reagans for bringing HIV/AIDS into the national conversation is only slightly less terrible than praising the Reagans for improving the sex lives of nuns in Central and South America. Were I LGBT, I'd be pissed, too (and honestly, as a black kid in the late '80s, I remember how later on it was also to a small degree a black person disease, so I feel that I can empathize to at least some degree on how LGBT folks feel about that statement).
Jack The Nipper
Banned
No body will remember that in a few weeks.
I wanted to type something similar. What she said was pretty stupid, but I think the average mainstream voter might agree with the sentiment. That's why I don't think it was a mistake. She meant it. Unfortunately for her, the democratic base is attuned to this kind of comment.
My proof of theory here is that no republican will even touch this. They most likely agree.
Still...stupid. Oh well. Apology accepted. Don't do it again.
BoboBrazil
Member
17 year olds in Ohio can vote in the primary now https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1033773553362072
shinra-bansho
Member
Seems like she had a senior moment. Which also isn't a good look.
I personally don't really know much about the 80s and AIDS history, nor the place of the Reagans in it and I guess I should probably as one of the gays. But I'm not American so that's my excuse.
Officerrob
Banned
It's going to be a real sad day when somebody dies at one of these Trump rallies
The Lamonster
Member
Good news for November...bad news for next week.
I was halfway expecting today in STL.
Macho Madness
Member
Shocked. The AP article made it sound like it had no chance. I have no problem with it.
It's pretty important in the American LGBT community. I actually first learned what a monster Reagan was because of how he's viewed by fellow LGBT people.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I think your similar to most Americans.
Hell I didn't until that buzzfeed article about the press conference Laughing at AIDS jokes.
But all these 20year olds pretending they are experts in 80s or 90s AIDS politics is something else. Oftentimes seems to me as a type of social positioning (which I think has a net positive effect because minorities can pressure majorities but can in the heat of things can outcast allies especially when forgiveness is denied)
It seems almost inevitable at the rate things have been escalating. Given what I saw in one of the OT threads about it though, Trump supporters will just claim it's the actions of an unwanted minority and not reflective of them or Trump himself. Even though that is transparently bullshit.
brainchild
Banned
There you go. Now please, let's move on.
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