-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
When's the vote happening? They're still going through with that plan?
I think they're currently saying 4 or 5 PM Eastern? But I'm pretty sure that just means "uhhhhhhhhh later".
32 Nos right now according to NBC. They're losing votes.
B b but Art of the Deal
RustyNails
Member
Welcome Louie Gohmert, the next house Speaker.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
9AM's the vote right?
Oh fuck. No.Welcome Louie Gohmert, the next house Speaker.
FloydtheFathead
Member
FixedWelcome Steve Scalise, the next house Speaker.
In my fan fiction where the House dumps Ryan..
A Serious Man
Member
9AM's the vote right?
Believe I heard that it's been pushed to 4 or 5 pm.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Guys, nobody in their right mind is going to be willing to jump on this grenade.
It'll definitely be Gohmert.
Unless this whole debacle actually peels off enough moderate (lol) Rs to make a coalition speaker possible, but that's like fanfic tian territory.
It'll definitely be Gohmert.
Unless this whole debacle actually peels off enough moderate (lol) Rs to make a coalition speaker possible, but that's like fanfic tian territory.
Trump issued a Presidential Permit for Keystone XL.
Moving on I see.
I'm slowly adjusting to a world where distractions don't have to be positive.
"Stop paying attention to that awful thing, Look, I did another awful thing."
FloydtheFathead
Member
Why would Gohmert take the job when he's Speaker in a practical sense with the FC without none of the hassles that come with being a Speaker?Guys, nobody in their right mind is going to be willing to jump on this grenade.
It'll definitely be Gohmert.
Unless this whole debacle actually peels off enough moderate (lol) Rs to make a coalition speaker possible, but that's like fanfic tian territory.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Why would Gohmert take the job when he's Speaker in a practical sense with the FC without none of the hassles that come with being a Speaker?
Power grab, line of succession and optics
https://twitter.com/johnjharwood/status/845240270472073216senior WH aide, asked if decisive health care defeat today is best for Team Trump: "100%"
RIP AHCA
Crimson_Gold
Member
Bring on the death panels
Bwahaha. Who the hell do they think is buying that?!
A Serious Man
Member
Paul Ryan walked right into a trap. Although it was inevitable since Trump is incapable of accepting blame, everyone around him will be thrown under the bus at some point.
FloydtheFathead
Member
I mean I would say he does two of the three without getting the gavel.. the power grab is already complete. Gohmert and company have shown everyone that Ryan doesn't run shit and they run the House effectively.Power grab, line of succession and optics
The Freedom Caucus gives almost zero fucks about optics. They're ideologues.. if they did, they wouldn't want what they want added to healthcare bill. (So that kinda accomplishes the optics part since they don't care about it)
The only way succession happens outside Trump or Pence being impeached.. and since that is still off a bit (if it happens).. you're signing yourself up for all the bullshit that comes from the job.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Why would Gohmert take the job when he's Speaker in a practical sense with the FC without none of the hassles that come with being a Speaker?
.Gohmert is so incredibly stupid
Crimson_Gold
Member
I mean I would say he does two of the three without getting the gavel.. the power grab is already complete. Gohmert and company have shown everyone that Ryan doesn't run shit and they run the House effectively.
The Freedom Caucus gives almost zero fucks about optics. They're ideologues.. if they did, they wouldn't want what they want added to healthcare bill. (So that kinda accomplishes the optics part since they don't care about it)
The only way succession happens outside Trump or Pence being impeached.. and since that is still off a bit (if it happens).. you're signing yourself up for all the bullshit that comes from the job.
Perhaps the optics of the power grab would aid in growing the FC and strengthening their position within the party. I'm just throwing things out there. I don't think it'll happen
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Bwahaha. Who the hell do they think is buying that?!
It actually is best case for them. This plan is terrible and will turn republicans against him.
Leaving ACA in place is far more beneficial for Trump politically.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Trump has started attacking the Freedom Caucus on Twitter.
FloydtheFathead
Member
That may be true.. but I don't think he's that stupid.. how quick did it take for Ryan to become lambasted by the Far Right and lose any future for himself. It almost happened overnight.
Gotcha..Perhaps the optics of the power grab would aid in growing the FC and strengthening their position within the party. I'm just throwing things out there. I don't think it'll happen
Aaron Strife
Banned
Did someone say fanfiction?Guys, nobody in their right mind is going to be willing to jump on this grenade.
It'll definitely be Gohmert.
Unless this whole debacle actually peels off enough moderate (lol) Rs to make a coalition speaker possible, but that's like fanfic tian territory.
Charlie was pacing up and down his office, occasionally stopping to peer through the closed blinds draping his window. For what was an unusually chilly night, the hustle and bustle around Capitol Hill would have been startling but for the events that had just transpired that morning. Charlie had retired for the night, shutting himself off from the constant back-and-forth, he-said-she-said stream of updates and news and speculation that had dogged these leadership fights for several years. He had no idea of what was going on at the moment, other than that Trump himself had been pushing for the Speaker's resignation after the disastrous healthcare vote. He glanced at his telephone - the light indicating he had new voicemail had been blinking the minute he stepped inside. He sighed, and contemplated for a moment just unplugging the damn thing so he could enjoy his solitude, when a voice piped up from the speaker.
"Mr. Dent?" said a cool, female voice.
"What is it, Melissa? I thought I told you to go home," Charlie said.
"Yes, well it's been quite busy," Melissa said. "There's someone on the other line who needs to speak with you immediately."
"Tell them I'm busy," Charlie said and he turned away from the speaker.
"It's Mrs. Pelosi."
Charlie froze, and turned back to the speaker. What could the Minority Leader possibly want to talk to him for? And now? He hesitated, then said, "Put her on."
A click and suddenly a new voice chimed in.
"Hello, Charlie?" said Nancy on the other line.
"Yes, hello Congresswoman," Charlie said. "To what do I owe the pleasure?"
"Ryan's gone," she said. "He stepped down as Speaker, he's resigning his seat. He just announced it."
Charlie got an inkling as to where this might be going.
"The leadership is a madhouse right now, I just got away," she said. "Not that they cared much for my input anyway, which is why I had to come to you."
"Go on," Charlie said. He poured himself a glass of scotch - he knew he was going to need it.
"The Freedom Caucus wants Scalise," said Nancy. "The leadership has no idea what to do, everyone's running around like their hair's on fire. Kevin McCarthy is in a bathroom stall crying. No one has the heart to tell him he's in the women's room."
"And what do you need me for?" Charlie asked, half-expecting the answer.
"The Democratic leadership held a brief conference," said Nancy. "We all agreed the best way forward would be to elect a coalition Speaker."
Charlie laughed. "A coalition Speaker?"
"Yes, it's a long shot," Nancy said. "But it's our only option. The whole party is behind it. Behind... you."
Silence filled the air. Charlie wasn't sure what to think - sure, he had floated the idea before, but he never imagined it would come down to him. This was always the sort of thing he put his faith in the leadership to resolve, but it was clear that in the age of Trump, the establishment was hardly reliable.
"It can't be done," Charlie said, sipping from his glass.
"This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity," Nancy said. "We have assurances from 25 Republicans that they would support you. Everyone on our side is willing to give this a chance. You have the votes. We need you." There was a pause. "I need you."
He set his glass on the table.
"When will the vote be held?" he asked.
"First thing on Monday."
Charlie peered out once more. The activity had died out a little.
"I'm in," he said.
"Pleasure doing business with you," Nancy said coolly, but she could barely mask her elation. He heard the click of her line, and stared at the box. He knew he was in for many, many important phone calls over the next few days. But for now, he just wanted to enjoy the moment. He poured himself another glass of scotch and leaned against the wall. Waiting.
Speaker Dent. It has a nice ring to it.
It actually is best case for them. This plan is terrible and will turn republicans against him.
Leaving ACA in place is far more beneficial for Trump politically.
Assuming Trump can take the Sesame Street sized L, of course. Democrats should start referring to the ACA as Obamacare just to fuck with him.
IggyChooChoo
Member
It actually is best case for them. This plan is terrible and will turn republicans against him.
Leaving ACA in place is far more beneficial for Trump politically.
He walks away looking a ton weaker, though, that anyone can call his bluff with no consequences. And there'll be tons of conservatives now who'll be likely to stay home in the midterms because their congressmen didn't keep their word to repeal Obamacare. It's a pretty serious wound. If we hit any kind of crisis, he has no room for error.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It actually is best case for them. This plan is terrible and will turn republicans against him.
Leaving ACA in place is far more beneficial for Trump politically.
The political embarrassment of failing to pass this bill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any ACA problems that might arise.
Failing to repeal ACA is not a better option for Trump at all.
Trump has started attacking the Freedom Caucus on Twitter.
Wedge, baby, wedge.
Does he not understand that he will need these guys to get literally anything else done? This was only the first of what should be many things and he's already turning on likely allies?
I don't know why I even asked.
The political embarrassment of failing to pass this bill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any ACA problems that might arise.
Failing to repeal ACA is not a better option for Trump at all.
Will we also see the stock market tank on the heels of this? He's been crowing about the rise being his doing. This is a black eye in several respects.
It actually is best case for them. This plan is terrible and will turn republicans against him.
Leaving ACA in place is far more beneficial for Trump politically.
"REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REP-"
"Sorry, can't get it passed. Who knew healthcare could be so complicated?"
He'll look weak as shit having a Republican House and Senate and not getting this passed
Guys, nobody in their right mind is going to be willing to jump on this grenade.
It'll definitely be Gohmert.
Unless this whole debacle actually peels off enough moderate (lol) Rs to make a coalition speaker possible, but that's like fanfic tian territory.
Did someone say fanfiction?
No, it won't happen. But, if I'm a moderate House Republican who just saw my biggest opportunity to rework the dreaded Obamacare for the first the time in 7 years evaporate because it was derailed and sabotaged by an intransigent House Freedom Caucus...why in the world would I want to make one of those people the new Speaker? The HFC ruins my big repeal and replace push, undermines the start of this big legislative agenda that is already starting to run short on time to happen, and now I'm gonna reward them with even more power? How does that make sense to moderates?
As much harm as this will cause to Ryan's speakership, I don't think he's going anywhere until at least the next speakership election. At which point, I wouldn't be surprised to see a renewed push for McCarthy as speaker. I know he was sidelined last time for accidentally spilling the beans on the impetus for the Benghazi hearings, but given how short attention spans are, McCarthy's current status as no. 2 in the House, and, most importantly, McCarthy's close relationship with Trump, I expect McCarthy will be the next one up -- and I also expect Trump to push for him.
Aaron Strife
Banned
He's Cartering himself on purpose."REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REP-"
"Sorry, can't get it passed. Who knew healthcare could be so complicated?"
He'll look weak as shit having a Republican House and Senate and not getting this passed
So that episode of Veep I literally watched yesterday about Meyer trying to kill her own bill is exactly what's happening, huh?
Those show writers have got their work cut out for them.
Anymore I don't see how they can top real life. The humor is going to have to come from Jonah insults.
Kevin McCarthy in the bathroom lol
I mean seriously the aca is like abortion. While the rank and file actually want to get rid of it, the brass like having it as a wedge issue. Same with guns. Can you imagine if no one ever talked about banning guns ever again? Why would they vote?
If the aca stays in place they can blame it forever. But it's weird because people would be like why don't you just get rid of it? But he could blame Nancy Pelosi.
I mean seriously the aca is like abortion. While the rank and file actually want to get rid of it, the brass like having it as a wedge issue. Same with guns. Can you imagine if no one ever talked about banning guns ever again? Why would they vote?
If the aca stays in place they can blame it forever. But it's weird because people would be like why don't you just get rid of it? But he could blame Nancy Pelosi.
Will we also see the stock market tank on the heels of this? He's been crowing about the rise being his doing. This is a black eye in several respects.
Nah the market won't care one way or the other. In the buoyant mood they're in they will either cheer the certainty that comes from failure, or they will cheer what they see as the potential for greater profits to be made from less restrictions and regulations.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Nah the market won't care one way or the other. In the buoyant mood they're in they will either cheer the certainty that comes from failure, or they will cheer what they see as the potential for greater profits to be made from less restrictions and regulations.
The market wants this to pass because it means larger tax cuts later on. Bigger cuts were banking on this bill passing.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
This administration is such a disaster that it's almost making me consider that Trump winning was better for the Democrats in the long run. (If it comes down due to Russia, I think it definitely was).
Democrats now have a realistic chance at taking back at least the house in 2018 - 2020. They're also making changes to the party that should hopefully position them better in the future. They're realizing corporate America isn't as strong an ally to them as they thought.
If Clinton won, it wouldn't have been a big victory, and she would've faced a hostile congress intent on defeating her in 2020. Either way, the House would probably still be Republican that year, and they'd be in charge of redistricting.
Democrats now have a realistic chance at taking back at least the house in 2018 - 2020. They're also making changes to the party that should hopefully position them better in the future. They're realizing corporate America isn't as strong an ally to them as they thought.
If Clinton won, it wouldn't have been a big victory, and she would've faced a hostile congress intent on defeating her in 2020. Either way, the House would probably still be Republican that year, and they'd be in charge of redistricting.
This administration is such a disaster that it's almost making me consider that Trump winning was better for the Democrats in the long run. (If it comes down due to Russia, I think it definitely was).
Democrats now have a realistic chance at taking back at least the house in 2018 - 2020. They're also making changes to the party that should hopefully position them better in the future. They're realizing corporate America isn't as strong an ally to them as they thought.
If Clinton won, it wouldn't have been a big victory, and she would've faced a hostile congress intent on defeating her in 2020. Either way, the House would probably still be Republican that year, and they'd be in charge of redistricting.
From the line of thinking of a liberal who didn't support Clinton (not me personally, just in general), this scenario may even be viewed as ideal. Trump is as effective as a wet paper bag and this embarrassment is setting the table for young Democratic candidates to ride the wave.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Trump trying to intimidate the HFC on Twitter?
Like watching two crazy people argue.
Like watching two crazy people argue.
This administration is such a disaster that it's almost making me consider that Trump winning was better for the Democrats in the long run. (If it comes down due to Russia, I think it definitely was).
I've thought this for months. Even before the election, I strongly believed our Senate majority would last only two years and Hillary would be a one-term president who gets little done other than appointing Merrick Garland and maybe 1-2 other justices to the Supreme Court. Then when you have the inevitable midterm blowback, Republicans not only recapture the Senate, but hold on to so many of their governorship and state legislature holds, ensuring that come 2021, the GOP will have their hands on the wheel for another decade of heavy gerrymandering.
As bad as Trump is and will be, he gives us not only a decent shot of retaking the House next year, but an even better opportunity to recapture the couple dozen governorships up for grabs next year -- and many of those races include outgoing Republican governors (the downside to one party having so much control at the state level is that many of them will end up leaving around the same time). We win back many of those governorships, and pick up a bunch of state legislature seats along the way, then the Democrats are in a prime position in four years to redraw districts in a much fairer way for the 2020s.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
He walks away looking a ton weaker, though, that anyone can call his bluff with no consequences. And there'll be tons of conservatives now who'll be likely to stay home in the midterms because their congressmen didn't keep their word to repeal Obamacare. It's a pretty serious wound. If we hit any kind of crisis, he has no room for error.
The political embarrassment of failing to pass this bill >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any ACA problems that might arise.
Failing to repeal ACA is not a better option for Trump at all.
"REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REPLACE REPEAL AND REP-"
"Sorry, can't get it passed. Who knew healthcare could be so complicated?"
He'll look weak as shit having a Republican House and Senate and not getting this passed
Except he and right wing media are already starting the "blame Ryan and the Freedom Caucus" game. His supporters will as well. He will lose almost no support from republican voters over this.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
If Hillary won, 2018 at the least would have been an unmitigated disaster. I could have easily seen all the vulnerable Senate Dems getting wiped out.
I wonder if veto-proof majorities would've been in play. 2018 Senate map is still brutal for Dems.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.