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PoliGAF 2017 |OT2| Well, maybe McMaster isn't a traitor.

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P

Pixieking

Banned
whyamihere said:
I mean straight up we shouldn't have nominated someone who's only a little more popular than him then.
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So, in the race between Bernie and Hillary, Hillary won. Who is the "we" you refer to? The primary/caucus voters? The ones who preferred and voted for Hillary?

People need to stop with the narrative that "we" could've prevented this. The Hillary campaign made mistakes, but Trump won it, partially by pushing the GOP narrative harder than even Chaffetz did on emails, and partially by playing to the very worst of humanity.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
T

tedrotheredro

Member
Randolph Freelander said:
I still believe!

#strongertogether
Click to expand...

<"Fight Song" plays in the background>

YAAAS QUEEN!
When they go low, we go high!
Love Trumps Hate!
I'm with her!
Women's rights are human rights!
There's no way we're winning the house, but we'll probably take the senate.

<And I don't really care if nobody else believes
'Cause I've still got a lot of fight left in me>
 
S

Slizeezyc

Member
Pixieking said:
So, in the race between Bernie and Hillary, Hillary won. Who is the "we" you refer to? The primary/caucus voters? The ones who preferred and voted for Hillary?

People need to stop with the narrative that "we" could've prevented this. The Hillary campaign made mistakes, but Trump won it, partially by pushing the GOP narrative harder than even Chaffetz did on emails.
Click to expand...

How about we all just not do this for the millionth time fam? And I mean BOTH SIDES in this case, just quoting yours because it's more recent in the chain.
 
B

Bonen no Max'd

Banned
Pixieking said:
So, in the race between Bernie and Hillary, Hillary won. Who is the "we" you refer to? The primary/caucus voters? The ones who preferred and voted for Hillary?

People need to stop with the narrative that "we" could've prevented this. The Hillary campaign made mistakes, but Trump won it, partially by pushing the GOP narrative harder than even Chaffetz did on emails.
Click to expand...
It includes them, but also the effective stonewalling of any serious candidate from the primary ahead of time. Bernie, Chafee, Webb, etc all are people the Democrats had no serious institutional control over and only Bernie could keep from being a massive loser because he managed to fundraise outside of the normal party structures. Keeping one candidate from winning all of the institutional support ahead of time means we get an open field less likely to end up as a choice between two very flawed candidates.

Box of Kittens said:
Basically this. Plus the whole "we elect our president via an arcane system designed to increase the voting power of slaveholders" thing.
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Well we currently only have the power to change one of those things, but given sufficient power to change the other we should definitely do that too.
 
B

Box of Kittens

Banned
Pixieking said:
So, in the race between Bernie and Hillary, Hillary won. Who is the "we" you refer to? The primary/caucus voters? The ones who preferred and voted for Hillary?

People need to stop with the narrative that "we" could've prevented this. The Hillary campaign made mistakes, but Trump won it, partially by pushing the GOP narrative harder than even Chaffetz did on emails.
Click to expand...

I'd say the issue wasn't voting for Hillary over Bernie (who had major weaknesses of his own) but rather the decision to essentially clear the field for an unpopular politician. A more competitive primary might have produced a stronger nominee. I'm not saying that Hillary was the worst candidate ever or anything, she had many legitimate strengths, but it's hard not to think you could have done things differently when you needed to flip less than, what, 70K votes to change the outcome of the election.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Pixieking said:
So, in the race between Bernie and Hillary, Hillary won. Who is the "we" you refer to? The primary/caucus voters? The ones who preferred and voted for Hillary?

People need to stop with the narrative that "we" could've prevented this. The Hillary campaign made mistakes, but Trump won it, partially by pushing the GOP narrative harder than even Chaffetz did on emails, and partially by playing to the very worst of humanity.
Click to expand...

~I voted for Hillary in the primary~ he sings to himself.

Box of Kittens said:
I'd say the issue wasn't voting for Hillary over Bernie (who had major weaknesses of his own) but rather the decision to essentially clear the field for an unpopular politician. A more competitive primary might have produced a stronger nominee. I'm not saying that Hillary was the worst candidate ever or anything, she had many legitimate strengths, but it's hard not to think you could have done things differently when you needed to flip less than, what, 70K votes to change the outcome of the election.
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^
 
J

jtb

Banned
I think the most important moment of the primary was when Bernie backed off of Hillary's emails. Rather than addressing that vulnerability head-on (and forcing Hillary to attack it head-on), it just lurked in the background. A festering wound.
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Futurevoid said:
Might not want to get smug until the thing finally dies. I'm sure they were laughing and smiling the morning of November 8th as well.
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I'm just afraid the site of laughing democrats will compel the R no-votes to switch just because they hate democrats.
 
N

neurosisxeno

Member
Box of Kittens said:
I'd say the issue wasn't voting for Hillary over Bernie (who had major weaknesses of his own) but rather the decision to essentially clear the field for an unpopular politician. A more competitive primary might have produced a stronger nominee. I'm not saying that Hillary was the worst candidate ever or anything, she had many legitimate strengths, but it's hard not to think you could have done things differently when you needed to flip less than, what, 70K votes to change the outcome of the election.
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Nailed it. It's hard to argue that Establishment Democrats basically expected Hillary to be the nominee. They regularly showed frustration that Sanders wasn't conceding very early, and a lot of them endorsed Hillary in early to mid 2015.
 
B

BoogieWoogie

Banned
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/845351716908294144
James Comey at the WH right now. WH says it's "for a routine inter-agency meeting," not related to Russia.
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84709-Joe-Biden-bullshit-gif-with-al-1RSd.gif
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
Dan said:
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/845351716908294144
James Comey at the WH right now. WH says it's "for a routine inter-agency meeting," not related to Russia.


You're welcome.
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Sure, Spicey/whoever is the PR head, he's just there for a routine event, that's why no one commented on his visit for the first part of it.

Comey fucked up with the email, but didn't he say something about "If I had Known what I know now, I'd have been at the DNC office during the election"? Whatever he has on Trump, it's no small deal, and I'd bet this was "Comey alligning his aim" to get more evidence.

You come at Trump, you better not miss.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Let's face it, though: Democrats did have a weak bench for 2016. Who would have run against her? Warren? Biden?

I don't really know how you "fix" the 2016 primaries. I just think it was a confluence of a ton of small factors - some positive, some negative - that resulted in losing an extremely close election.

The passion that's been re-ignited from Trump's presidency seems to have almost singlehandedly replenished the D bench.
 
C

Carpe Libertatem

Member
Box of Kittens said:
I'd say the issue wasn't voting for Hillary over Bernie (who had major weaknesses of his own) but rather the decision to essentially clear the field for an unpopular politician. A more competitive primary might have produced a stronger nominee. I'm not saying that Hillary was the worst candidate ever or anything, she had many legitimate strengths, but it's hard not to think you could have done things differently when you needed to flip less than, what, 70K votes to change the outcome of the election.
Click to expand...

It's not like Hillary always had low favorable ratings (it's only when she's running for something when she has low ratings, shocker!). She was in the 60s as recently as 2013-2014. I guess you could see the downward trend, but I'm not sure anyone could have predicted Her E-Mails would have such an impact. But I guess when you're being attacked by the right and the left for the same thing that favorability loss would be inevitable.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
Well I certainly don't think Carter Page (or Roger Stone), who can't even make it through a cable news interview, is gonna outsmart Comey.
 
smokeymicpot

smokeymicpot

Beat EviLore at pool.
benicillin said:
Well I certainly don't think Carter Page (or Roger Stone), who can't even make it through a cable news interview, is gonna outsmart Comey.
Click to expand...

They probably have the information that Nunes gave Trump the other day. Knowing what the intel is and possibly the other intel as well. Thinking they have the leg up.

JUST IN: House Republican conference to hold closed-door meeting momentarily

https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/845357121600413696
 
S

Slacker

Member
So much winning. But hey, at least sitting in that truck was fun, right?

Trump pulling the bill means his theats gained zero votes. I bet if anything, they lost votes from where they thought they would be. Truly an amazing failure.
 
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