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[Bonen no Max'd]

Vicente González (TX-15) is a member of both the Blue Dogs and the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I have many questions here.

 

[pigeon]

Vicente González (TX-15) is a member of both the Blue Dogs and the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I have many questions here.

Maybe he's just agreeable?

 

[JP_]

Which part of the post you responded to are you disagreeing with, and how? Please be specific.

As far as I can tell we're saying the same thing, you just like Bernie and dislike the Democrats more than I do. So your framing is a little different.

If Bernie did this:

It's Bernie's job to go around and tell all these people that actually the Democratic Party is great and he was just kidding earlier.

It wouldn't actually solve any of the issues people have with the party and those people would continue to not show up to vote and they'll stop listening to Bernie and instead wait until the next person comes along and speaks to those issues.

edit: I'll say though, that there can/should be a little bit of the "actually, dems are great" to help unify. I think both sides need to come together. There are otherwise-reasonable heads on both sides that became overly divided.

 

[royalan]

How would you explain the gap? Personally, the drop seemed small enough to me to suggest Obama was just special (and could pull people that basically don't vote otherwise). I just skimmed exit polls -- Clinton still pulled a bit higher than Kerry, so is this not just a return to normal turnout?

Well, I mean, pulling higher than Kerry really shouldn't be a standard in 2016 and going forward. Especially for a Clinton. The Black/Brown vote has grown since Kerry, and Hillary came into the race with the right strategy and a name that was still respected by a lot older black voters, and strategists were expecting to trickle down to the younger vote. It did, somewhat, but not enough.

I explain the gap with the same mentality that I saw in your earlier post: believing that demo is locked in. I don't at all buy into the Bernie-esque strategy of speaking to the white working class. Too much of that class is lost. There is a winning, national majority among the voters already leaning toward us. We should run up our numbers with them. Everything else should be secondary.

 

[whyamihere]

Maybe he's just agreeable?

Everyone likes having him around.

 

[Frank the Great]

I feel like with all the hand-wringing every time the Democratic party makes a decision, people forget how close the election was and that Hillary, with all her unfavorables and shitty campaign decisions and the historical trends against her, was probably the only Democrat Trump could have beaten. And he did it by like 50k voters spread across three states.

I cannot believe that people are concerned with this Perez/Bernie thing. 99% of voters don't give a shit or even know about this. All these supposedly lefty voters who supposedly "don't trust" the DNC will either come home in opposition to Trump in midterms (and if we have a likeable candidate in 2020), or they will stick with Trump and the GOP because they are probably just racist and we don't want them anyway. Whether the DNC trots out Bernie, Waters, or George Takei at meaningless speaking engagements doesn't matter and I am mystified every time I time I see the fretting here. Bernie's just trying to help (for a change), leave him be.

 

[benjipwns]

Vicente González (TX-15) is a member of both the Blue Dogs and the Congressional Progressive Caucus. I have many questions here.

Remember that kid in school who seemed to be in every extracurricular group possible and was constantly running for office...

...only this time he dropped out of high school, then went to Law School and got elected to Congress.

 

[JP_]

Well, I mean, pulling higher than Kerry really shouldn't be a standard in 2016 and going forward. Especially for a Clinton. The Black/Brown vote has grown since Kerry, and Hillary came into the race with the right strategy and a name that was still respected by a lot older black voters, and strategists were expecting to trickle down to the younger vote. It did, somewhat, but not enough.

I explain the gap with the same mentality that I saw in your earlier post: believing that demo is locked in. I don't at all buy into the Bernie-esque strategy of speaking to the white working class. Too much of that class is lost. There is a winning, national majority among the voters already leaning toward us. We should run up our numbers with them. Everything else should be secondary.

You guys focus a lot on the white working class bit but I think Bernie's appeal is obviously quite a bit wider than that.

The authentic, speaking truth to power thing isn't limited to white working class. I think it's also important to understand that "Bernie's own electoral strategy" is not the same thing as "why people like Bernie and why Bernie is an asset."

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I feel like with all the hand-wringing every time the Democratic party makes a decision, people forget how close the election was and that Hillary, with all her unfavorables and shitty campaign decisions and the historical trends against her, was probably the only Democrat Trump could have beaten. And he did it by like 50k voters spread across three states.

I cannot believe that people are concerned with this Perez/Bernie thing. 99% of voters don't give a shit or even know about this. All these supposedly lefty voters who supposedly "don't trust" the DNC will either come home in opposition to Trump in midterms (and if we have a likeable candidate in 2020), or they will stick with Trump and the GOP because they are probably just racist and we don't want them anyway. Whether the DNC trots out Bernie, Waters, or George Takei at meaningless speaking engagements doesn't matter and I am mystified every time I time I see the fretting here. Bernie's just trying to help (for a change), leave him be.

I know like 3 Bernie supporters who stayed home so they wouldn't have to vote for Hillary. If they won't vote then why will they come home in midterms if their local candidate doesn't meet their justice democrat purity tests? Also Bernie sure helped by letting his advisors run around Willy Nilly with tea party tier anti-establishment garbage.

 

[royalan]

I feel like with all the hand-wringing every time the Democratic party makes a decision, people forget how close the election was and that Hillary, with all her unfavorables and shitty campaign decisions and the historical trends against her, was probably the only Democrat Trump could have beaten. And he did it by like 50k voters spread across three states.

I cannot believe that people are concerned with this Perez/Bernie thing. 99% of voters don't give a shit or even know about this. All these supposedly lefty voters who supposedly "don't trust" the DNC will either come home in opposition to Trump in midterms (and if we have a likeable candidate in 2020), or they will stick with Trump and the GOP because they are probably just racist and we don't want them anyway. Whether the DNC trots out Bernie, Waters, or George Takei at meaningless speaking engagements doesn't matter and I am mystified every time I time I see the fretting here. Bernie's just trying to help (for a change), leave him be.

I disagree. We say that Hillary's baggage hurt her, and I don't doubt it did to a degree, but look at Kerry. Look at Gore. Look at Dukakis. A Democrat with less baggage than Hillary is not an instant win, especially not against Trump.

And it's been said before: but this constantly painting of Trump as an easy candidate to beat had the Clinton campaign not fucked up ignores data, it ignores the huge racist vote that Trump awakened in this country, and ignores the 17 other Republican candidates that should have beat him in the primary. Trump tapped into a deep-rooted hate in this country. We ignore that at our own peril.

The rest of your post is the exact argument that was made in 2016, so I'm flabbergasted that people continue to make it.

 

[chadskin]

A two term limit was added to the French Presidency in 2008. I don't remember if it applies to Sarkozy or not. It was part of his own manifesto, so you would assume he'd apply it to himself but I mean I don't remember if he's grandfathered in like Truman was to the 22nd Amendment.

edit: it's kinda funny that the Fifth Republic's Presidency went from indirectly elected due to fears about how Napoleon III became Emperor to directly elected with infinite seven year terms (which iirc were the longest length terms for any such similar position outside Africa)

Ah, time to update my French politics. The way the constitutional amendment is worded though ("The president of the Republic may not henceforth exercise more than two consecutive periods in office") gives Sarkozy the ability to sit out a cycle or two and get right back in. Kinda like Russia has a two-term limit for the presidency, too.

The US constitution specifically says one person shall not be elected more than twice to the office of the president. Trump could possibly continue to pull the strings as VP beyond his two terms but his lifespan is arguably more limited than Le Pen's still.

 

[Teggy]

Bernie isn't even a member of the Democratic Party, is he?

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Bernie isn't even a member of the Democratic Party, is he?

He is not. And it causes me no shortage of rage.

I actually hate Bernie more than Trump, I think.

 

[JP_]

Bernie isn't even a member of the Democratic Party, is he?

He is not. And it causes me no shortage of rage.

I actually hate Bernie more than Trump, I think.

 

[TiredofWinning]

He is not. And it causes me no shortage of rage.

I actually hate Bernie more than Trump, I think.

Uhhh you're aware that Bernie votes with the Dem caucus the majority of the time, right?

Why can't poligaf admit Bernie was objectively the superior candidate to Clinton? At an objective level he had both superior legislative skills in Congress and administrative experience as mayor of Burlington. On top of that Bernie is the master of appropriating conservative arguments to justify left wing policy.

 

[benjipwns]

I disagree. We say that Hillary's baggage hurt her, and I don't doubt it did to a degree, but look at Kerry. Look at Gore. Look at Dukakis. A Democrat with less baggage than Hillary is not an instant win, especially not against Trump.

Look at LBJ. Look at Stevenson. Look at Jackson. I...what?

and ignores the 17 other Republican candidates that should have beat him in the primary.

This seems like even worse logic. Trump beat the calendar more than he beat 17 candidates.

He never even had to go one-on-one with Cruz.

 

[benjipwns]

What clearly needs to be done is send Perez out there with Bernie and Diamond Joe, the only ones non-hispanic whites like:

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Look at LBJ. Look at Stevenson. Look at Jackson. I...what?

This point is too arcane for me and is going over my head.

 

[VendettaRed07]

He is not. And it causes me no shortage of rage.

I actually hate Bernie more than Trump, I think.

Well you'd be an idiot to hate him more than trump. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I'm sure it was just hyperbole

He remained an independent because he won his last election as an independent and said it wouldn't be right to switch parties mid term

Save your rage if he doesn't run as a democrat in 2018. But I'm very certain he will then.

 

[B-Dubs]

Uhhh you're aware that Bernie votes with the Dem caucus the majority of the time, right?

Why can't poligaf admit Bernie was objectively the superior candidate to Clinton? At an objective level he had both superior legislative skills and administrative experience as mayor of Burlington. On top of that Bernie is the master of appropriating conservative arguments to justify left wing policy.

Because if he was he would have won. He lost and lost badly despite never really being hit.

Also, LOL @ the bold. Damn dude, that's a stretch.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

A good chunk of those independents are just edgelords to the right of the mainstream GOP. Plus millenials dislike labels as a rule so they just say they're independent. Hell I always vote Dem but I'm a registered independent because I don't want any friggin campaign mailers.

Uhhh you're aware that Bernie votes with the Dem caucus the majority of the time, right?

Why can't poligaf admit Bernie was objectively the superior candidate to Clinton? At an objective level he had both superior legislative skills and administrative experience as mayor of Burlington. On top of that Bernie is the master of appropriating conservative arguments to justify left wing policy.

I'm not making claims that Bernie was inherently a worse candidate but I don't think the dude has any right to criticize or influence a party he's never actually paid dues to. And he's good at appropriating those arguments because he ignores racial disparities in policy impacts in order to draw in people who want theirs at the expense of minorities. Basic income equality is not a panacea for institutional racism but Bernie does his damndest to shove that kool-aid down our throats.

Also mayor of a hippie town in the people's republic of Vermont is a greater source of administrative experience than being in a presidential administration and the Secretary of State? Are you actually being serious?

 

[TiredofWinning]

Because if he was he would have won. He lost and lost badly despite never really being hit.

Also, LOL @ the bold. Damn dude, that's a stretch.

Don't act like Clinton didn't use SoS to boost her own brand.

Can anyone name a huge success of Clinton's time as SoS?

 

[Tall4Life]

I like how some say Bernie and his supporters are too into purity tests against moderate Democrats, but whenever Bernie talks about moving away from identity politics (which I personally disagree with, but still) and focusing on the working class, now he's suddenly not a Democrat in essence either. A supposed purity test from the other side now.

 

[B-Dubs]

Don't act like Clinton didn't use SoS to boost her own brand.

Can anyone name a huge success of Clinton's time as SoS?

This is what's called a deflection. I ask a question and instead of answering it you try and deflect by asking one of your own.

 

[Pixieking]

Don't act like Clinton didn't use SoS to boost her own brand.

Can anyone name a huge success of Clinton's time as SoS?

Burma/Myanmar diplomatic ties, and meeting Aung Sang Suu Kyi, which is actually pretty huge in the context of US/East Asian relations.

Clinton's cultivation of Burma, on the other hand, was the opposite: a painstaking, public three-year-long process, in which she enlisted the support of influential constituencies in Washington, carefully tested the waters with the heroine of Burma's democracy movement, Aung San Suu Kyi, and then finally approached the generals, who had seized power in 1962, turning the country into a hermetic dictatorship. By the time Clinton met Suu Kyi in person for the first time, at a lakeside villa in Rangoon in December 2011, she had read several books about her and they had spoken multiple times by phone. ”I felt," Clinton recalled, ”as if we had known each other for a lifetime."

Also, pushing countries in the UNSC to vote for sanctions against Iran, which, along with Stuxnet, undoubtedly set the stage for the Iran Deal.

For the first half of 2010, Clinton was a dark evangelist, preaching a message that Iran could be brought to heel if its economy were squeezed hard enough. Her goal was to rally support for a UN Security Council resolution that would impose harsh new oil and banking sanctions on the Iranian government. In Brasília, she pleaded with President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva not to pursue his own nuclear diplomacy with Tehran because it would undercut the sanctions. (A deal that Brazil cooked up with Turkey fell apart.) In Doha, she tried to buck up Arab allies by issuing her warning that Iran was ”moving toward a military dictatorship." In Beijing, she pressed the Chinese leaders to cut their commercial ties with Iran

(Both quotes from Mark Landler's "Alter Egos")

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I like how some say Bernie and his supporters are too into purity tests against moderate Democrats, but whenever Bernie talks about moving away from identity politics (which I personally disagree with, but still) and focusing on the working class, now he's suddenly not a Democrat in essence either. A supposed purity test from the other side now.

He's allowed to have those positions, and he's allowed to call himself a democrat. But those positions are wrong and he's not a democrat. Not in essence, mind you, he's just not a democrat at all. Joe Manchin is less of a democrat "in essence" than Bernie, but he is actually a democrat, which makes him better even if his policy positions are pretty much just as wrong as Bernie's.

Bernie and his cult of personality have done more damage to the Democratic Party than the GOP or Trump's bumbling tweets ever could, dude exists to serve the GOP at this point more than any of the progressive causes he champions. I might've exaggerated when I said I hate him more than Trump but he's probably more dangerous to the future of the American left than Trump is and the hatred is really about equal for both.

The term "splitter" has never been more appropriate in American political history. Although I'm sure Benji can offer up some example to correct me on that.

 

[benjipwns]

He remained an independent because he won his last election as an independent and said it wouldn't be right to switch parties mid term

Save your rage if he doesn't run as a democrat in 2018. But I'm very certain he will then.

I doubt it. He already changed his registration back, there's some other guy who's running for the D nomination for Senate.

He's allowed to have those positions, and he's allowed to call himself a democrat. But those positions are wrong and he's not a democrat. Not in essence, mind you, he's just not a democrat at all. Joe Manchin is less of a democrat "in essence" than Bernie, but he is actually a democrat, which makes him better even if his policy positions are pretty much just as wrong as Bernie's.

Bernie and his cult of personality have done more damage to the Democratic Party than the GOP or Trump's bumbling tweets ever could, dude exists to serve the GOP at this point more than any of the progressive causes he champions. I might've exaggerated when I said I hate him more than Trump but he's probably more dangerous to the future of the American left than Trump is and the hatred is really about equal for both.

The term "splitter" has never been more appropriate in American political history. Although I'm sure Benji can offer up some example to correct me on that.

Well, there was that time that the Democratic Party split in two seperate parties, one that ran in the North and lost to Lincoln nearly everywhere and one that ran in the South and swept it.

Should capitalize those "democrat" uses in the first paragraph probably...

A good chunk of those independents are just edgelords to the right of the mainstream GOP. Plus millenials dislike labels as a rule so they just say they're independent. Hell I always vote Dem but I'm a registered independent because I don't want any friggin campaign mailers.

Not being registered with a party, and having yourself recorded as a regular non-voter, seems to be the best way to be deluged with Democratic mailers from my experience.

I think I've gotten one thing from a Republican and it was local enough that I bet he just had it mass sent to every registered voter instead of using a party list.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I disagree. We say that Hillary's baggage hurt her, and I don't doubt it did to a degree, but look at Kerry. Look at Gore. Look at Dukakis. A Democrat with less baggage than Hillary is not an instant win, especially not against Trump.

And it's been said before: but this constantly painting of Trump as an easy candidate to beat had the Clinton campaign not fucked up ignores data, it ignores the huge racist vote that Trump awakened in this country, and ignores the 17 other Republican candidates that should have beat him in the primary. Trump tapped into a deep-rooted hate in this country. We ignore that at our own peril.

The rest of your post is the exact argument that was made in 2016, so I'm flabbergasted that people continue to make it.

In retrospect Trump was the perfect foil for Clinton, but I think a large part of that is because Clinton had nearly 30 years working in government and Trump only spent that time throwing bombs from the sidelines. It was easy to paint Clinton as everything wrong with Washington and Trump as a crusading reformer because he bore no responsibility for anything.

I'm not saying Sanders or Biden (as examples because they're easily the most talked up) would have lost, but they'd run into the same problem. Sanders has been in Congress forever and Biden was the incumbent Vice President. Perhaps Sanders' populism or Biden's blue collar roots would have allowed them to prevail, but our greatest folly was underestimating how much Trump fired up pockets of racist white people who had never voted. Hispanic turnout in Florida, as with everywhere was up - dipshit white turnout was higher. And our calculations of big city turnout beating rural white turnout in blue wall states flipped.

Really starting to think Booker is our guy in 2020.

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

I doubt it. He already changed his registration back, there's some other guy who's running for the D nomination for Senate.


Well, there was that time that the Democratic Party split in two seperate parties, one that ran in the North and lost to Lincoln nearly everywhere and one that ran in the South and swept it.

Should capitalize those "democrat" uses in the first paragraph probably...


Not being registered with a party, and having yourself recorded as a regular non-voter, seems to be the best way to be deluged with Democratic mailers from my experience.

I think I've gotten one thing from a Republican and it was local enough that I bet he just had it mass sent to every registered voter instead of using a party list.

Huh, I've never gotten a mailer for either party, maybe there's some other trick? I'm planning to register as D the next time I move anyway so I can get my primary action on. I've voted in all the final elections since I was 18, so maybe that's it?

I'm stuck on mobile ATM and I'm too lazy to go back and capitalize but fair enough.

 

[benjipwns]

In retrospect Trump was the perfect foil for Clinton, but I think a large part of that is because Clinton had nearly 30 years working in government and Trump only spent that time throwing bombs from the sidelines. It was easy to paint Clinton as everything wrong with Washington and Trump as a crusading reformer because he bore no responsibility for anything.

I'm not saying Sanders or Biden (as examples because they're easily the most talked up) would have lost, but they'd run into the same problem. Sanders has been in Congress forever and Biden was the incumbent Vice President. Perhaps Sanders' populism or Biden's blue collar roots would have allowed them to prevail, but our greatest folly was underestimating how much Trump fired up pockets of racist white people who had never voted. Hispanic turnout in Florida, as with everywhere was up - dipshit white turnout was higher. And our calculations of big city turnout beating rural white turnout in blue wall states flipped.

Really starting to think Booker is our guy in 2020.

Not seeing a single mention of abs in this post.

Huh, I've never gotten a mailer for either party, maybe there's some other trick? I'm planning to register as D the next time I move anyway so I can get my primary action on. I've voted in all the final elections since I was 18, so maybe that's it?

We don't have to register at all, even to vote in primaries. I actually got fewer mailers from the Democrats this cycle when I voted in the Democratic primaries than I got in 2014, 2012 and 2010 when I never even voted.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Really starting to think Booker is our guy in 2020.

That worries me.

 

[kirblar]

Booker wont make it through the primary.

 

[Slacker]

Top story on whitehouse.gov is still Trump's speech from February where he didn't shit himself or use any racial slurs and thus was presidential. No wins since then Donny?

 

[CrimzonSamurai]

Not seeing a single mention of abs in this post.


We don't have to register at all, even to vote in primaries. I actually got fewer mailers from the Democrats this cycle when I voted in the Democratic primaries than I got in 2014, 2012 and 2010 when I never even voted.

I've never experienced the true freedom of living in an open primary state.

Top story on whitehouse.gov is still Trump's speech from February where he didn't shit himself or use any racial slurs and thus was presidential. No wins since then Donny?

That was enough. He's tired of winning now. Guy is old.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Top story on whitehouse.gov is still Trump's speech from February where he didn't shit himself or use any racial slurs and thus was presidential. No wins since then Donny?

Trump is going to be that late 90s webmaster who updates once every six months like "Hey guys, life has been keeping me really busy, I've got new content coming soon I promise!" before he just shuts it down.

I know your game Donnie, I spent my formative years browsing many a Geocities DBZ and Nintendo fan pages run by teenage nerds who lost their free time to jobs and college.

 

[And_Gignac]

He is not. And it causes me no shortage of rage.

I actually hate Bernie more than Trump, I think.

If you hate Bernie more than Trump then you should really reconsider your political affiliation.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Not seeing a single mention of abs in this post.


We don't have to register at all, even to vote in primaries. I actually got fewer mailers from the Democrats this cycle when I voted in the Democratic primaries than I got in 2014, 2012 and 2010 when I never even voted.

Was Roque De La Fuente finally the candidate you'd been waiting for?

 

[benjipwns]

Top story on whitehouse.gov is still Trump's speech from February where he didn't shit himself or use any racial slurs and thus was presidential. No wins since then Donny?

that's the porn site, i believe you're looking for whitehouse.org

or is it whitehouse.com

 

[royalan]

Look at LBJ. Look at Stevenson. Look at Jackson. I...what?


This seems like even worse logic. Trump beat the calendar more than he beat 17 candidates.

He never even had to go one-on-one with Cruz.

Your point? I'm not making an argument one way or another here. Baggage hasn't doomed every candidate in the past, just like relatively "pure" candidates aren't guaranteed wins. You're not responding to that here.

Same with your point about Trump beating the calendar. Duh. The same could get be said about almost any other election. Why do you think people care so much about Ossof getting a majority today?

 

[Holmes]

lol It won't be Booker and there's literally no basis to liking Trump more than Sanders. None.

 

[royalan]

lol It won't be Booker and there's literally no basis to liking Trump more than Sanders. None.

There is if you're the type who responds to direct appeals to white supremacy.

 

[benjipwns]

Was Roque De La Fuente finally the candidate you'd been waiting for?

That's Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente (Guerra) buddy

and after losing he founded his own party and then got the Reform Party nomination AND he also ran for the Democratic nomination for Senate in Florida

AND he's running for Mayor of NYC as a Republican

AND he's already announced he's running in the Democratic primary for President in 2020

earned a B.S. in Physics and Mathematics from the Instituto Patria National Autonomous University of Mexico, and studied Accounting & Business Administration at Anahuac University near Mexico City

Between 1976 and 1990, De La Fuente acquired automobile dealerships from Alfa Romeo, American Motors Corporation, Audi, Cadillac, Chrysler, Daihatsu, Dodge, GMC, Honda, and others.

He also opened eleven currency exchange locations in the United States and Mexico.

In 2004, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation issued an order barring De La Fuente from participating in an FDIC-insured institution. De La Fuente appealed and the 9th Circuit reversed half the order and advised the FDIC to reconsider its sentence, stating that "De La Fuente's use of FIB as his personal piggy bank was in shocking disregard of sound banking practices and the law to the detriment of depositors, shareholders, and the public.  Nevertheless, we remand this matter to the Board for it to consider, in light of this disposition, whether this extraordinary sanction remains deserved."

In November 2015, De La Fuente and the city of San Diego reached settlement in a decades-long legal dispute over land-use issues regarding a 312-acre area

so actually he does kinda sound like my candidate

Spoiler

i voted for him to see if it was possible to actually "count" my vote in the results (assuming that 99.6% of Democrats would vote Bernie and Hillary and Uncommitted only (O'Malley was still on the ballot, he got .2% for the state) and that the GOP field on the ballot was too large to do this with)...

only one vote for him was counted in my precinct so...

candidates who had dropped out of the GOP race but remained on the ballot got five to 80 times the number of votes Rocky did in my precinct and statewide

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I can't remember if it actually had people standing by it, but there was definitely a space set aside for Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente at my caucus last year. I was but a political neophyte back then and wondered who it was. I seem to remember there being one or two people but they could've just been overflow from Bernie.

Spoiler

back then I was a liberal and voted for Hillary, what a sucker mirite

 

[whyamihere]

I can't remember if it actually had people standing by it, but there was definitely a space set aside for Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente at my caucus last year. I was but a political neophyte back then and wondered who it was. I seem to remember there being one or two people but they could've just been overflow from Bernie.

Spoiler

back then I was a liberal and voted for Hillary, what a sucker mirite

Wow the Bonen no Max'd endorsement, kiss of death.

 

[Aaron Strife]

If the 2020 primary is another shitfest I'm writing in John Kerry.

 

[benjipwns]

Your point? I'm not making an argument one way or another here.

But you did:

I disagree [Hillary was the only Democrat Trump could have beat]. We say that Hillary's baggage hurt her, and I don't doubt it did to a degree, but look at Kerry. Look at Gore. Look at Dukakis. A Democrat with less baggage than Hillary is not an instant win, especially not against Trump.

Kerry, Gore and Dukakis are not comparable because they didn't run in the 2016 election, nor against Trump-like candidates, and one ran 30 years ago against a popular President's Vice President with a key flank abandoning him. (Jackson did not endorse Dukakis as he thought he should have been given the VP slot and more of a say in the platform. He did a non-endorsement endorsement of Fulani.)

Not only that, but every single one of them was not baggage free. All three took specific steps to counter or in Dukakis' case double down on what was at the time seen as campaign cycle baggage.

Hell, even Obama was far from campaign cycle baggage free. His "historic race speech" came about because of some of his baggage that wasn't limited to just Sean Hannity playing "not god bless America, god damn America" everyday. (Hannity was doing this though which was the funniest thing at the time to me. He didn't think any other Obama scandals were as important as Reverend Wright saying that lol what a dummy)

Same with your point about Trump beating the calendar. Duh. The same could get be said about almost any other election.

Clinton beat Sanders head-to-head. Gore beat Bradley head-to-head. They won majorities in states. Romney even accomplished this in a four man field! So on.

Trump didn't win a single majority of the vote in any state until after all his opponents were eliminated from the race. (Cruz and Kasich stayed in and Trump won a majority in NY, but both were already eliminated mathematically.) Trump got 5.3 million of his 14 million primary votes after there were no other candidates in the race. (Romney got 6.3 million of his 10 million after he was declared the presumptive nominee, although he had not technically eliminated the other candidates and Ron Paul had not withdrawn. This was one reason the GOP held back calling Trump the nominee early, aside from wishful thinking.)

I can't remember if it actually had people standing by it, but there was definitely a space set aside for Roque "Rocky" De La Fuente at my caucus last year. I was but a political neophyte back then and wondered who it was. I seem to remember there being one or two people but they could've just been overflow from Bernie.

Did your caucus allow "non-committed" people who would wait for the first round then go to a candidate? Some caucuses allow this, but require you to stand with a candidate so they pick some delusional weirdo like Carol Moseley Braun or American Patriot like "Rocky" to stand with and then the candidate gets eliminated because they don't hit the threshold and then they move over to Hillary or Obama or whoever.

In fact, John Edwards and Obama both setup deals with the "true" Kucinich people to move over to their groups after Dennis got eliminated in the first round.

If the 2020 primary is another shitfest I'm writing in John Kerry.

Write in "ABS (not the rest of O'Malley)"

 

[Holmes]

There is if you're the type who responds to direct appeals to white supremacy.

Ok. I probably should have said within the scope of the PoliGAF community.

 

[mo60]

I hope today is not a repeat of last tuesday where the democrat got destroyed in rural areas in the KS-4 special election despite doing well in urban areas. If the republicans can spilt enough of the vote in rural areas in GA-6 if there are any and do terrible in urban areas I think Ossoff can get above 50% of the vote in the first round.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

How many rural areas are there in GA-6? Isn't it the Atlanta suburbs?

 

[benjipwns]

I hope today is not a repeat of last tuesday where the democrat got destroyed in rural areas in the KS-4 special election despite doing well in urban areas. If the republicans can spilt enough of the vote in rural areas in GA-6 if there are any and do terrible in urban areas I think Ossoff can get above 50% of the vote in the first round.

This was the 2016 vote, the bottom of the map is suburban Atlanta:

The district is more than half as black as Georgia as a whole. It's 70+% white.

The almost exact area where it stops in the middle county (dark dark red with small dark blue to north and south) is Sandy Springs which about a decade ago outsourced nearly all of its governmental functions except police and fire.