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[Carpe Libertatem]

If you have time to make long posts you have time to watch a couple minutes of video. The relevant part is only a few minutes long. The main thrust of the argument is that intervention is not inherently moral, even if it sounds like the only option, like I've said in an earlier post.

This seems to pretty clearly talk about motivations?

It's not something I'd particularly agree with but if knowing the motivations is not important then why bring it up? It certainly seems to excuse the government when you bring up altruistic behavior.

It makes perfect sense. You're privileged enough to claim you haven't read much about drone strikes. You have the privilege that a white conservative does when tough on crime policies sound reasonable. They don't have the time to read michelle alexander and you don't have the time to watch a video.

You posted a 40 minute long video and gave no indication as to what part you want people to watch. You don't even really talk about the main point of it or anything - you just dropped the link!

Here's a novel idea: instead of telling other people to watch a video, summarize the important parts for them.

 

[kirblar]

There is nothing inherently immoral/evil/etc about the use of deadly force. If you think there is, there's no real point in having an argument w/ people about it because they're two mutually incompatible viewpoints.

Expecting someone to be able to watch a video is ridiculous- use your written words. I'm sure someone has a transcript somewhere. If you're posting from a cell/at work/etc, it's very likely you may be able to read and write but not be able to go to Youtube. (Not to mention that if you're a fast reader, listening is far, far, far less preferable to reading because they're just going to slow you down.)

 

[East Lake]

I posted a video that I even edited the URL for so it would start at the relevant time! Hard times for intervention apologists today.

Pigeon probably spent longer typing that response than he would have watching it.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

I posted a video that I even edited the URL for so it would start at the relevant time! Hard times for intervention apologists today.

Pigeon probably spent longer typing that response than he would have watching the video.

Yes, so then it's 31 minutes instead of 40! You still gave zero indication about what you wanted pigeon to watch. You just dropped the link without even describing the video.

 

[East Lake]

It's literally like 5-10 minutes, moreover I made the basic point in other posts. It's about intervention, you watch the part about intervention. I didn't realize time was so precious on the neogaf forums! We all have better things to do. You can even read posts and listen at the same time! The wonders of multitasking are truly here my friends.

 

[Valhelm]

So did/does the US support anti-Islamist pro-secular democracy rebels or extremist, Islamist rebels?

Both. Part of why the Syrian Civil War is so complicated are America's contradictory obligations. When the war began, we supported the anti-Assad opposition alongside Turkey and Saudi Arabia. After the emergence of ISIS, we also began supporting the Syrian Democratic Forces. This secular and left-wing organization is driven mostly by the YPG, a Kurdish organization that has a long history of conflict with Turkey.

On one hand, America has supported Syrian opposition forces against Assad, even though these forces are predominately Islamist. At the same time, we're supporting the SDF against ISIS. The SDF do not desire the overthrow of Assad outright, but instead protection for their libertarian socialist society in northern Syria. The SDF has collaborated with the Syrian army in operations against ISIS. The SDF are also friendly with Russia. The Syrian opposition and the SDF, despite both having ties to the United States, have regularly engaged in conflict.

American collaboration with the SDF has infuriated Turkey, because Turkey is currently engaged with affiliated Kurdish socialists within their own borders.

Supporting socially conservative terror groups against a secular government is bad! Now let me tell you guys about Hamas...

(Note: Assad is 2e42 times worse than Israel and Bibi).

Who said anything about Hamas?

 

[Teggy]

South Dakota has passed anti-LGBT legislation

https://www.aclusd.org/en/news/governor-daugaard-signs-discriminatory-senate-bill-149

Doubt anyone has enough business interests in SD to cause any pressure.


Also, idiot opens mouth

Dr. Jill Stein‏ @DrJillStein

Never forget: for Democratic Party elites, keeping a socialist out of the White House was more important than beating Trump. #DemExit
12:01 PM · Mar 8, 2017

 

[Aaron Strife]

South Dakota has passed anti-LGBT legislation

https://www.aclusd.org/en/news/governor-daugaard-signs-discriminatory-senate-bill-149

Doubt anyone has enough business interests in SD to cause any pressure.


Also, idiot opens mouth

Lincoln is going to leave Mt. Rushmore now.

 

[jack_package_200]

Also, russian plant opens mouth

Fixed that for you

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

There are a bunch of "left" assholes who praise Hamas while saying it's justifiable that Assad is killing all of his people because there are Islamist elements among his opponents.

 

[pigeon]

If you don't want to respond to me if I don't watch your video get ready to just not respond to me because I read and write a lot faster than I watch videos, same reason I always refuse to listen to podcasts. We don't have to interact!

 

[Valhelm]

Again, more execution problems. "We're arming bad people" doesn't mean we tell the people getting massacred to fuck off (which is essentially what you're saying, just a bit nicer). We just need to do more outreach beyond "Find group with guns who hates bad guys and dump cash on them." Like Bonen mentions below, intervention should follow exactly like post-war Japan; lots of continuous support, in ways other than just money.

Unfortunately, many of the groups we and our allies have empowered are also massacring people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatla_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_Loze_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maan_massacre

The war in Syria is so tricky because the opposition are not heroes. Much of the impetus to oppose Assad comes from anti-secularism or anti-Shi'ism. If these groups should take power in Syria, it's entirely possible that this kind of violence gets much worse.

When we want to topple a government, our choices are to invade directly or lend support to homegrown opposition. Because President Obama did not want to start another Iraq, he decided on the later. We were unable to prevent extremist groups from co-opting the revolution, no thanks to Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

In this situation, there was no chance for US intervention to create a more equitable outcome. An invasion would have plunged America into another quagmire and sent many of our troops home draped in flags. Supporting the rebels became futile the moment Russia directly intervened. And had the rebels won, it is unlikely that their government would have been more just than the Assad regime.

So here, you seem to be actually engaging in American imperialism yourself because it seems your argument is that we should only be helping people who agree to completely forego the process of creating their own governments and basically just write them a US Constitution and shove it down their throats. I don't really take this position; if a country largely wants a system other than democracy, that's fine. My only concern is whether people are being, ya know, massacred. A democracy isn't even immune to that, so why make that a non-negotiable requirement before we save people from being slaughtered, as Pigeon notes, because of our own choices in the past. Much as we'd like to turn back time and not invade Iraq, it's a fantasy land to even think about, and it's not much comfort to the people that we'd be throwing to the wolves.

The question isn't what role local people should play in state-craft, but what kind of state these people want to create. Much of the opposition makes no pretense about desiring democracy. If we help the rebels create a state more repressive than they one they destroyed, what good was our intervention?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

The people in Palestine are majority Islamist and have the most appalling views on women's rights so keeping them down is Actually Good.

#LeftistsnowbelieveBibiwasright

 

[East Lake]

If you don't want to respond to me if I don't watch your video get ready to just not respond to me because I read and write a lot faster than I watch videos, same reason I always refuse to listen to podcasts. We don't have to interact!

I have the opposite problem where I write and read a lot slower than I listen, so if your post or article is too long I might not have the time for it, and if I did I might have surgery on my hands that day.

 

[Dan]

KCRW: Press Play: 57-year-old former Trump supporter: Republicans' health plan is 'garbage'

Bakersfield residents share their personal challenges in getting affordable health insurance, and weigh in on the Republicans’ new health care bill. A 25-year-old newlywed is confident he’ll be able to get care, but a 57-year-old former social worker is disappointed by the proposal.

Guests:
Brian Russom, former social worker
Jake Thomasy, President of CSUB College Republicans

The older gentleman talks about Kevin McCarthy's office locking the door and pretending no one was there when he showed up for a scheduled meeting to avoid dealing with his criticisms. He's also a fool who believed Trump would deliver single-payer healthcare.

The 25-year-old Trumpster likes the new healthcare plan and thinks he'll have "absolutely" no problem getting healthcare once he's off his parents' plan. And he's also all about that 'well I'm young and healthy now so I'm not super concerned' bullshit. He also regurgitates nonsense about other countries' populations all coming to the US for surgeries.

Some people are so dumb.

 

[pigeon]

I have the opposite problem where I write and read a lot slower than I listen, so if your post or article is too long I might not have the time for it, and if I did I might have surgery on my hands that day.

That's fair! I will note I try to always provide quotes from articles and summaries when I am pointing people to them, but sometimes the quotes are probably too long.

I do write way too many words sometimes though.

 

[tuxfool]

He's also a fool who believed Trump would deliver single-payer healthcare.

There you go. What kind of moron would think that Trump would offer single payer. That is even more of a projection than all the other nonsense these lightweight supporters invented in their heads.

 

[Wilsongt]

Someone needs to hurry up and find the damn gun. There is so much smoke surrounding Trump that Beijing's air seems prestine in comparison.

 

[Aaron Strife]

There you go. What kind of moron would think that Trump would offer single payer. That is even more of a projection than all the other nonsense these lightweight supporters invented in their heads.

Same people who thought Trump would stay out of the Middle East but Hillary would start World War III.

People gave Trump every single benefit of the doubt, maybe because he seemed too outrageous to be real and they hated Hillary that much.

 

[Abinash117]

I guess people choose the devil they didn't know over the devil they know; of course they actually didn't know jack shit. People used every justification to vote for Trump, mostly out of hatred of Hillary. Maybe perhaps Trump doesn't mean what he said or he actual meant things that they liked.

Critical thinking is not a strong among many people, plus people don't become informed or they are purposefully biased = complete disaster.

 

[Infinite Stars]

There were "The GOP is dead forever!" articles the day before they won the presidency.

You'd think they'd learn.

To be fair, the GOP is falling apart. They've had what, 6 years to make a healthcare replacement that they could pass, and they can't even fucking pass that.

Democrats are the body who got punched and is bleeding out, trying to stuff all it's organs back inside. Republicans are the Black Knight, yelling about how they're winning as they can't even get their arms and legs to work together.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Unfortunately, many of the groups we and our allies have empowered are also massacring people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatla_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qalb_Loze_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maan_massacre

The war in Syria is so tricky because the opposition are not heroes. Much of the impetus to oppose Assad comes from anti-secularism or anti-Shi'ism. If these groups should take power in Syria, it's entirely possible that this kind of violence gets much worse.

Again, this all seems like execution, unless your argument is that the people of Syria are all bloodthirsty savages that should be put to death (apparently since that's the end result of inaction).

The question isn't what role local people should play in state-craft, but what kind of state these people want to create. Much of the opposition makes no pretense about desiring democracy. If we help the rebels create a state more repressive than they one they destroyed, what good was our intervention?

Again, this is my point. Democracy is honestly not the only form of government; we don't even have one here, for good reason. China isn't a democracy and yet they manage to not chemically murder tens of thousands of their citizens every year! What you're doing is saying "we'll stop you from being murdered as long as you adopt Western ideology about government." This is no different than the thing you say you're against! Either your goal should be to help people not die, or it seems like it should be to gain sway over Middle Eastern countries and install (functionally this is what you're saying since it seems our help should be conditional to whether they're sufficiently Western as a nation) a government allied to our interests, culturally at least.

My position is that people who massacre their citizens should probably not get a pass to do that from us. Which seems to be what you're arguing for. (I mean, maybe you'd like sternly worded press releases from our leaders about how we condemn the massacres blah blah blah, but this is no different than the GOP's usual talking points after a shooting. It's "we'll pray for you" on steroids.)

 

[tuxfool]

Because of the dipshit in chief all sorts of other countries are now using his words to deflect criticism.

http://presstv.com//Detail/2017/03/...ani-election-Donald-Trump-Assembly-of-Experts

 

[pigeon]

I guess people choose the devil they didn't know over the devil they know; of course they actually didn't know jack shit. People used every justification to vote for Trump, mostly out of hatred of Hillary. Maybe perhaps Trump doesn't mean what he said or he actual meant things that they liked.

Critical thinking is not a strong among many people, plus people don't become informed or they are purposefully biased = complete disaster.

I can actually think of another pretty plausible reason why people voted for Trump

Maybe you folks can guess

 

[tuxfool]

District Court, Splitting 2-1, Finds Some Texas Congressional Districts Violate Voting Rights Act or Constitution

That dissent though. Is it normal?

 

[tedrotheredro]

I can actually think of another pretty plausible reason why people voted for Trump

Maybe you folks can guess

Economic anxiety?

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I can actually think of another pretty plausible reason why people voted for Trump

Maybe you folks can guess

Because they really like Yahtzee?
Because they saw things the rest of us did not see?
Because their favorite Happy Days character was Potsie?

Spoiler

I think it rhymes with these though!

 

[Abinash117]

I can actually think of another pretty plausible reason why people voted for Trump

Maybe you folks can guess

I can, but I thinking more about people who didn't like both including Trump's ideas and still end up voting for Trump.

 

[Ogodei]

The cheering about the GOP's permanent destruction and bemoaning over the Dems' permanent destruction is really fucking annoying. This country runs on a two-party system; no one party will ever be shut out of power for long, much less for forever. And the sooner people stop thinking about the possibility/inevitability of one party being completely dead, the better.

The article points out that sometimes one party dominates for a few decades, like the Republicans basically from the Civil War through 1932, or the Democrats from 33 to 69.

Now, this doesn't reflect the GOP position, which is built on gerrymandering and a few other weird tricks that don't work if they really screw they pooch.

Gerrymandering especially is designed to create a bunch of GOP +5 districts and a few Dem +12 districts to compensate. If something goes wrong, like, say, a significant backlash over a failed health-care law, then they lose everything.

The fact that the GOP's painted itself into a corner demographically also continues to be true. They need to court at least one minority group or else the party won't have a future outside the deep red states by 2030.

 

[Extollere]

I would honestly be fine with just having Democrats in charge for the next few decades anyways. At this point I would probably take the worst Democratic candidate over the best Republican one. Republicans need at least 40 years. They need 40 years to let the old guard die and new blood to come in. They need that much time to understand how awful their platform is for the interests of the people. That is how terrible they are. Something has to change. We're completely disorganized, and outside of the Bannonite view of the world we have no unity or vision in our Government and that is frightening.

 

[SpaceCadetKeon]

Also, idiot opens mouth

Ugh, my mom voted for her. Also didn't she say before the election that Trump was a better choice than Hillary?

 

[whyamihere]

District Court, Splitting 2-1, Finds Some Texas Congressional Districts Violate Voting Rights Act or Constitution

That dissent though. Is it normal?

It also doesn't matter.

That is a huge ruling.

 

[KingK]

What the hell is going on with some people on the left trying to act like there's nothing to see with the Russia stuff and dems are just making it all up? Where the fuck is this coming from? Like, the Russia connection could not be more obvious, I don't know why anybody on the left would be dismissing it as fake or some shit.

One of my friends was in town this week and was pushing a similar narrative, that there's not really anything there and Democrats just want to blame something for Clinton's loss. I showed him a lot of the smoke and how obvious it is, gave him some background on Putin, and he changed his mind fast. Even posted stuff on Facebook about it. This is also a friend who was thinking about voting for Jill Stein until I showed him a bunch of her crazy shit. I know he uses reddit a lot, are they downplaying the Russia story there or something?

 

[JesseEwiak]

What the hell is going on with some people on the left trying to act like there's nothing to see with the Russia stuff and dems are just making it all up? Where the fuck is this coming from? Like, the Russia connection could not be more obvious, I don't know why anybody on the left would be dismissing it as fake or some shit.

One of my friends was in town this week and was pushing a similar narrative, that there's not really anything there and Democrats just want to blame something for Clinton's loss. I showed him a lot of the smoke and how obvious it is, gave him some background on Putin, and he changed his mind fast. Even posted stuff on Facebook about it. This is also a friend who was thinking about voting for Jill Stein until I showed him a bunch of her crazy shit. I know he uses reddit a lot, are they downplaying the Russia story there or something?

It's partly general distrust of the Establishment on the left, certain prominent lefties pushing the 'talking bad about Russia = modern day McCarthyism' line for some reason online, and of course, Russian trolls manipulating things on Reddit.

 

[TopDreg]

District Court, Splitting 2-1, Finds Some Texas Congressional Districts Violate Voting Rights Act or Constitution

That dissent though. Is it normal?

That is a bunch of dicta.

 

[mo60]

The article points out that sometimes one party dominates for a few decades, like the Republicans basically from the Civil War through 1932, or the Democrats from 33 to 69.

Now, this doesn't reflect the GOP position, which is built on gerrymandering and a few other weird tricks that don't work if they really screw they pooch.

Gerrymandering especially is designed to create a bunch of GOP +5 districts and a few Dem +12 districts to compensate. If something goes wrong, like, say, a significant backlash over a failed health-care law, then they lose everything.

The fact that the GOP's painted itself into a corner demographically also continues to be true. They need to court at least one minority group or else the party won't have a future outside the deep red states by 2030.

They will have a future unless the democrats can win back parts of the rust belt and/or win parts of the sun belt in congressional, senate and presidential elections.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I would honestly be fine with just having Democrats in charge for the next few decades anyways. At this point I would probably take the worst Democratic candidate over the best Republican one. Republicans need at least 40 years. They need 40 years to let the old guard die and new blood to come in. They need that much time to understand how awful their platform is for the interests of the people. That is how terrible they are. Something has to change. We're completely disorganized, and outside of the Bannonite view of the world we have no unity or vision in our Government and that is frightening.

This is all because the GOP actually does have unity and vision, but it's not the kind people like Bill Kristol kept saying conservatism was about. Conservatism in 2017 is people like my father-in-law who openly admits he's a bigot and that minority cultures aren't suited for the modern world. Think of how pressing we think climate change is; that's how they see multiculturalism. That interview thing kirblar posted a page ago was full of the standard "I went to the grocery store and the browns were talking Mexican. SO RUDE." They're all pissed that the country doesn't look like the 50s, and so they want to turn the clock back.

The hopeful part of me thinks that even with the rise of shitbag millennial racists online, they at least don't have the innate nostalgia towards a racist time period other than when they watch Mad Men.

What the hell is going on with some people on the left trying to act like there's nothing to see with the Russia stuff and dems are just making it all up? Where the fuck is this coming from? Like, the Russia connection could not be more obvious, I don't know why anybody on the left would be dismissing it as fake or some shit.

One of my friends was in town this week and was pushing a similar narrative, that there's not really anything there and Democrats just want to blame something for Clinton's loss. I showed him a lot of the smoke and how obvious it is, gave him some background on Putin, and he changed his mind fast. Even posted stuff on Facebook about it. This is also a friend who was thinking about voting for Jill Stein until I showed him a bunch of her crazy shit. I know he uses reddit a lot, are they downplaying the Russia story there or something?

You may also just know some secret anarchists/tankies/hardcore antifa types. I've got a few friends like that who are always going on about CEOs distracting us with Putin while they steal our money or whatever.

The right believes a lot of news is fake, but so do far-left types sometimes. This one friend of mine believes that Russia actually has a freer press than we do, and that Putin would never do something to lead to someone's death because "how is he so popular if he's so bad"

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Hmmm, was just looking at the congressional map and saw MT-AL which is kind of interesting. Zinke did basically the same numbers at Trump (he got ~1k more votes in total) while the Democrat running did about five points better than Hillary which was about 24k votes more. Gives me some hope for the special election, especially since the GOP guy already lost statewide for the governorship so he doesn't have incumbency bonus like Zinke and the state already rejected him once. I want my cowboy social democrat in power.

 

[jack_package_200]

What the hell is going on with some people on the left trying to act like there's nothing to see with the Russia stuff and dems are just making it all up? Where the fuck is this coming from? Like, the Russia connection could not be more obvious, I don't know why anybody on the left would be dismissing it as fake or some shit.

Because it doesn't fit into their list of pet issues. Its a "distraction" like "identity politics."

Plus it gives them an excuse to slag the dems "cuz they are focusing on Russia and not on the working class"

 

[Aaron Strife]

Hmmm, was just looking at the congressional map and saw MT-AL which is kind of interesting. Zinke did basically the same numbers at Trump (he got ~1k more votes in total) while the Democrat running did about five points better than Hillary which was about 24k votes more. Gives me some hope for the special election, especially since the GOP guy already lost statewide for the governorship so he doesn't have incumbency bonus like Zinke and the state already rejected him once. I want my cowboy social democrat in power.

Montana elects Democrats often enough, although the House seat has been stubborn.

If it gains enough population before the next Census to get an extra district, a West Montana district would probably be sufficiently liberal to elect a Democrat.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Because it doesn't fit into their list of pet issues. Its a "distraction" like "identity politics."

Plus it gives them an excuse to slag the dems "cuz they are focusing on Russia and not on the working class"

Because it's impossible to care about the GOP trying to destroy Medicaid and the fact Russia possibly is using the POTUS as a puppet.

 

[jack_package_200]

Because it's impossible to care about the GOP trying to destroy Medicaid and the fact Russia possibly is using the POTUS as a puppet.

Something something both sides are the same something neoliberal

Its a shame that the straight up villainy and corruption from the Trump Administration isn't eliciting much of a response from that side.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Either your goal should be to help people not die, or it seems like it should be to gain sway over Middle Eastern countries and install (functionally this is what you're saying since it seems our help should be conditional to whether they're sufficiently Western as a nation) a government allied to our interests, culturally at least.

It seems very unclear how current US actions in Syria achieve either of these aims, though. The status quo in Syria is that Assad holds a significant military advantage and is very slowly regaining ground. The opposition has no serious chance of reversing this position, unless the US sent in active forces. The current US shipment of weapons to the opposition is simply drawing out the war, rather than changing the outcome, and the longer the war goes on, the more people die. Assad is evil. He will kill thousands, if not tens of thousands of people, when (and I say when, not if) he wins. However, that's still less than what the continuation of this war causes, since Assad is still going to win and still going to kill those people, and you have all those extra deaths in the meantime from the process of warring.

Additionally, there is absolutely no guarantee that, even if opposition groups given military support by us managed to overthrow Assad, they would be culturally allied to our interests. The US has a long history of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' reasoning that almost never worked. Did the mujahideen bring about an America-friendly government after the Soviet-Afghan War? No. Instead, it brought to power a group which had strong reason to be isolationist, hostile towards major powers, and deeply ethnonationalist thanks to an ingrained revanchism.

My position is that people who massacre their citizens should probably not get a pass to do that from us. Which seems to be what you're arguing for. (I mean, maybe you'd like sternly worded press releases from our leaders about how we condemn the massacres blah blah blah, but this is no different than the GOP's usual talking points after a shooting. It's "we'll pray for you" on steroids.)

The US is not going to beat Assad by continuing present actions. If you want to seriously alter the political outcome in Syria, then the US needs to invade, commit ground troops for policing for a long period of time, and spend enormous amounts of money on a reconstruction programme. This would be significantly more expensive and time-consuming and American-life-endangering than Iraq, where the US did not commit sufficient troops to safeguard the rebuilding process and spent a tuppence on rebuilding the Iraqi state. If you can't commit to that, then you need to accept that US involvement is doing more harm than good, and the best possible thing the US can do is facilitate the immediate end of the war.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You are right. Median voter theory mostly just says (to radically oversimplify) that you need to be slightly more moderate than your opponent, if possible. So an extremist party on one side should give the other party freedom to be somewhat extreme as well, as long as it's a little less extreme.

median voter theory sucks, tho

It's like perfect competition in economics. They're both really easily explained models that have historic importance to the development of their fields, so everyone gets taught them in first year of their undergraduate or whatever, yet neither of them actually has any empirical value and are woefully bad descriptors of how voting/markets actually work. Nevertheless, Dunning-Kruger convinces all those graduates who never went on study further that these theories are perfect, and they become part of the institutional thinkbubble that is stifling Western polities.

See: the recent minimum wage thread where everyone goes 'supply/demand hurr durr', as though the predicted findings of what happens in fully informed perfectly rational market where there is an infinite number of employees all seeking to employ one single marginal unit of labour is at all relevant to how the real world works.

 

[JP_]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-democratic-party-doesn-unpopular-article-1.2993659

Somehow dems have managed to be less popular than Donald trump (and the GOP). Smh. King's article isn't incredibly insightful but he's dead on about the grassroots movement largely existing outside of the dem party. I've been saying dems need to embrace that activism since election night and they're still being weak about it.

What the hell is going on with some people on the left trying to act like there's nothing to see with the Russia stuff and dems are just making it all up? Where the fuck is this coming from? Like, the Russia connection could not be more obvious, I don't know why anybody on the left would be dismissing it as fake or some shit.

One of my friends was in town this week and was pushing a similar narrative, that there's not really anything there and Democrats just want to blame something for Clinton's loss. I showed him a lot of the smoke and how obvious it is, gave him some background on Putin, and he changed his mind fast. Even posted stuff on Facebook about it. This is also a friend who was thinking about voting for Jill Stein until I showed him a bunch of her crazy shit. I know he uses reddit a lot, are they downplaying the Russia story there or something?

If you were able to convince him, it might suggest he just wasn't paying much attention to it and wasn't convinced by the little bit of it he did see.

 

[Chumley]

It makes absolutely no logical fucking sense whatsoever for there to not be a gun to accompany all this smoke with Trump, now with this foreign agent news out about Flynn.

Are the leakers, FBI, or otherwise just withholding it for some reason? There is 10 times more smoke than Nixon had leading up to Watergate, and Trump is a proven idiot. I know that the Republican house will do everything they can to hold his water, but it still seems utterly impossible for the smoking gun to not be in someone's possession.

 

[Diablos]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-democratic-party-doesn-unpopular-article-1.2993659

Somehow dems have managed to be less popular than Donald trump (and the GOP). Smh. King's article isn't incredibly insightful but he's dead on about the grassroots movement largely existing outside of the dem party. I've been saying dems need to embrace that activism since election night and they're still being weak about it.


If you were able to convince him, it might suggest he just wasn't paying much attention to it and wasn't convinced by the little bit of it he did see.

Yeah, this is why I have no hope for 2018

Democrats haven't been this bad since Dukakis. Probably worse given how they've slipped away in Congress and at the state and local level as well.

 

[tbm24]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-democratic-party-doesn-unpopular-article-1.2993659

Somehow dems have managed to be less popular than Donald trump (and the GOP). Smh. King's article isn't incredibly insightful but he's dead on about the grassroots movement largely existing outside of the dem party. I've been saying dems need to embrace that activism since election night and they're still being weak about it.

You're right that the article is not insightful in any meaningful way. Not to mention the point of grass roots movements is to exist beyond the established figures(many who have taken part in them mind you, not to a crowd throwing tomatoes either). They as the base push those in elected office to new positions. It wholly ignores the work being put in by these people and their networks throughout their states when it comes to dealing with the shit Trump is doing.

 

[dramatis]

District Court, Splitting 2-1, Finds Some Texas Congressional Districts Violate Voting Rights Act or Constitution

That dissent though. Is it normal?

Unsurprisingly, he is complaining about a woman disrespecting him and the local Texas authorities.

Surprisingly, he is using his dissent to complain about poor behavior, not to justify his opinion in the law. I guess he got triggered by a woman chewing gum.

 

[Dierce]

It seems it will take another economic catastrophe for Democrats to get back in power, fix it up and have stupid voters stab them in the back by electing republicans to start the collapse again.

If that does happen I hope democrats leave rural areas to crumble. The evil ones that voted for orange turd need to pay for what they've done and the good ones should be given the opportunity to move out to more diverse locations.