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[Beowulf28]

You don't run Some Dude, you run someone like Andy Berke who is from an area that could swing towards Democrats and is a strong rising star in the party. I still don't think he wins, but he has a better shot than Bredesen.

What about Karl Dean? He currently seems like the Dems boy down here (or at least I don't hear about any other dems running).

 

[whyamihere]

What about Karl Dean? He currently seems like the Dems boy down here (or at least I don't hear about any other dems running).

He's running for Governor.

 

[Beowulf28]

He's running for Governor.

Oh duh, my bad haha, got the two races mixed up.

 

[Abinash117]

I wouldn't call myself a tankie because I don't think I'm very authoritarian, but the US is an imperialist country and we as progressives need to change that. Time after time we've tried to crush, co-opt, or undermine every movement of people standing up for themselves, especially if it's in a third world country that hosts lots of American property.

If we abandoned our primacy, and instead had a genuinely egalitarian geopol landscape dominated by international cooperation instead of national might, folks like the Houthis or the government of Bolivia wouldn't feel coerced to saddle up to Putin to protect themselves. Progressive or anti-imperial groups that work with Russia universally fear his regressive ideology, and often have better stances on white supremacy and LGBT liberation than Western liberals, but have been led to believe that accepting Russian support is necessary for their own survival.

We can't support progressive policies at home and fascist policies abroad. This is probably the biggest contradiction of liberalism, and this contradiction goes back as far as Cromwell, who overthrew the monarchy but funded his new government through the plunder and genocide of Ireland. For the past three hundred years, liberals who championed genuinely progressive causes at home have still co-signed or participated in the abuse of colonial territories and subjugated peoples.

Authentic compassion and humanism means recognizing that lives of foreigners aren't less valuable than our own. The Democrats have a really long way to go on that front.

I don't anything about Bolivia, but I'm pretty sure the Houthis would have side with the Russians because the Saudi's were already against them. One of the reasons I get perplexed is because reasoning like this sometimes seems to assume other countries don't have any agency. Nations have their own agenda and will continue to further that agenda regardless if the USA involved or not. So I don't get the whole process of this of deescalation and having the moral high ground. What exactly well that functionally help make other countries stop what they are doing? Even countries that do have a moral high ground critize the US or other countries; it doesn't stop the US or other countries.

It just feels like want the image of their perception of the good guy without any real gain.

 

[whyamihere]

@JohnJHarwood
new Gallup on Trump job performance, by party: Ds 7% approve 91% disapprove; Inds 26% approve, 61% disapprove; Rs 73% approve 23% disapprove

how do you have 23% of your own party disapprove of you.

 

[chadskin]

Nope, that's a lie.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/u...es-kiev-government-including-far-right-n66061
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/03/18/yes-there-are-bad-guys-in-the-ukrainian-government/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-america-training-neonazis-in-ukraine
https://www.thenation.com/article/c...ng-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/US-lifts-ban-on-funding-neo-Nazi-Ukrainian-militia-441884

Our support for Neo Nazis does not at all justify Russian aggression, but it reminds us that we are both imperialist countries willing to work with basically anybody to cement our influence.

Svoboda received more than 10% of the vote in the 2012 parliamentary election, simply ignoring them in the attempt to settle the political crisis in Kiev wasn't a particularly feasible scenario. That attempt included, by the way, keeping Yanukovych in power before he ultimately fled to Russia. Svoboda then dropped below 5% in the 2014 parliamentary election.

It's an asinine argument to say the US supported fascists and white supremacists when they were already, unfortunately, a part of the political landscape. The US didn't fund them and the US didn't help them in any way before or after the election.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Someone makes a an accurate remark about Russia and we get like 2 pages about the US (including Pre-Trump US) instead...

Remarkable.

If some of y'all aren't Greenwald you should definitely try and see if he'll fire you.

 

[Aaron Strife]

how do you have 23% of your own party disapprove of you.

There’s a(n ever-shrinking) segment of the Republican
base that actually wants to elect Republicans to enact certain policies and reforms. I mean, mainly tax cuts, but that aside.

A great deal more are of the “haha take that libtards (said while house is on fire)” school of thought, but I’m not surprised to see a not-insignificant number of Republicans recognize that Trump has done none of the major things he said he’d do, none of what establishment Republicans wanted from an R Presidency/Congress, and overall is a pretty obvious huckster.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Back in the day, leftist criticism of the USA's human rights record (often perfectly justified) was constantly undermined by their defense of the USSR's horrid human rights record. At least that made some tiny amount of sense from the standpoint of promoting one's "team."

Why so many leftists would want to downplay the actions of the current right-wing authoritarian regime in Russia is beyond me.

 

[Grexeno]

Why so many leftists would want to downplay the actions of the current right-wing authoritarian regime in Russia is beyond me.

These are the people who define liberalism on a sliding scale of how anti-USA you are.

 

[Zolo]

There’s a(n ever-shrinking) segment of the Republican
base that actually wants to elect Republicans to enact certain policies and reforms. I mean, mainly tax cuts, but that aside.

A great deal more are of the “haha take that libtards (said while house is on fire)” school of thought, but I’m not surprised to see a not-insignificant number of Republicans recognize that Trump has done none of the major things he said he’d do, none of what establishment Republicans wanted from an R Presidency/Congress, and overall is a pretty obvious huckster.

If I remember right, it was pretty much shown that the percentage that disapproves of him is around 50% of those that voted against him in the primaries.

 

[excelsiorlef]

These are the people who define liberalism on a sliding scale of how anti-USA you are.

Also known as the Glenn Greenwald scale of bullshit

(I really don't like Greenwald btw)

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Also known as the Glenn Greenwald scale of bullshit

(I really don't like Greenwald btw)

I agree. Got no love for that whole crew. I like some heavy anti-imperialist leftists like Adam H. Johnson, but the Lee Fangs, Greenwalds, a few TYT people, etc. etc., can be just as bad as the people they are constantly talking about fish hook theory about.

 

[Valhelm]

Svoboda received more than 10% of the vote in the 2012 parliamentary election, simply ignoring them in the attempt to settle the political crisis in Kiev wasn't a particularly feasible scenario. That attempt included, by the way, keeping Yanukovych in power before he ultimately fled to Russia. Svoboda then dropped below 5% in the 2014 parliamentary election.

It's an asinine argument to say the US supported fascists and white supremacists when they were already, unfortunately, a part of the political landscape. The US didn't fund them and the US didn't help them in any way before or after the election.

The US funds parties and paramilitary organizations that work very closely with Neo Nazis. Congress approved blanket funding packages that contained a mechanism to supposedly prevent this money from going to fascist militias like the Azov Battalion, but in 2016 this mechanism was abandoned.

This isn't even accounting for undisclosed funding. As I hope you realize, American agencies have a long and bloody history of secretly funding paramilitaries abroad.

 

[Abinash117]

Back in the day, leftist criticism of the USA's human rights record (often perfectly justified) was constantly undermined by their defense of the USSR's horrid human rights record. At least that made some tiny amount of sense from the standpoint of promoting one's "team."

Why so many leftists would want to downplay the actions of the current right-wing authoritarian regime in Russia is beyond me.

I think the right has a more active global view? They are more likely to get involved in global affairs and have connections of with other groups in other countries. Largely, liberals are more concerned with their own country and the injustices that their countries does, I guess. Could be wrong about it since there's ANIFA. You see more liberals highlight the negatives of US involvement and not the positives or turn the negative into something better. I don't think I ever heard a left-wing person advocate that the military take on a more humanitarian and a defensive role for example.I'm sure some has, but I see more cutting the military or involve ourselves less, but I think it makes sense that left-wing people are more isolationist.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Back in the day, leftist criticism of the USA's human rights record (often perfectly justified) was constantly undermined by their defense of the USSR's horrid human rights record. At least that made some tiny amount of sense from the standpoint of promoting one's "team."

Why so many leftists would want to downplay the actions of the current right-wing authoritarian regime in Russia is beyond me.

Russia is extremely bad, but I think rhetoric like "global supervillain" casts geopolitics as a clash between good and evil in a way that largely absolves the "good" people opposing the supervillain of their own moral failings. Russia annexing Crimea is very bad, but so is America occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half.

I don't think for my part that I've ever tried to downplay Russian actions (and even though I understand wanting to leave, I'm generally pro-NATO, in particular for the Baltic states) but I think it's important to be careful about the language people use when describing topics as complex as geopolitics and IR.

 

[eBay Huckster]

[...] and overall is a pretty obvious huckster.

aaron we've talked about this

 

[excelsiorlef]

Russia is extremely bad, but I think rhetoric like "global supervillain" casts geopolitics as a clash between good and evil in a way that largely absolves the "good" people opposing the supervillain of their own moral failings. Russia annexing Crimea is very bad, but so is America occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half.

I don't think for my part that I've ever tried to downplay Russian actions (and even though I understand wanting to leave, I'm generally pro-NATO, in particular for the Baltic states) but I think it's important to be careful about the language people use when describing topics as complex as geopolitics and IR.

Did you just compare Crimea to Afghanistan?

While trying to claim you aren't downplaying Russia

 

[pigeon]

Did you just compare Crimea to Afghanistan?

While trying to claim you aren't downplaying Russia

Actually, uh, that seems...pretty fair? We have been occupying Afghanistan for a lot longer than Russia has been occupying Crimea, and with less justification.

 

[Aaron Strife]

aaron we've talked about this

I know, and shyster is too offensive. Huckster it is.

 

[Blader]

Russia is extremely bad, but I think rhetoric like "global supervillain" casts geopolitics as a clash between good and evil in a way that largely absolves the "good" people opposing the supervillain of their own moral failings. Russia annexing Crimea is very bad, but so is America occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half.

We've been occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half because we have no good ideas for leaving that doesn't topple the house of cards on our way out. Russia is occupying Crimea because they believe it belongs to them.

Good and evil rhetoric is probably not helpful in sorting geopolitical clashes. But moral equivocation is probably even less helpful.

 

[B-Dubs]

Russia is extremely bad, but I think rhetoric like "global supervillain" casts geopolitics as a clash between good and evil in a way that largely absolves the "good" people opposing the supervillain of their own moral failings. Russia annexing Crimea is very bad, but so is America occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half.

I don't think for my part that I've ever tried to downplay Russian actions (and even though I understand wanting to leave, I'm generally pro-NATO, in particular for the Baltic states) but I think it's important to be careful about the language people use when describing topics as complex as geopolitics and IR.

There's literally a genocide against gay people going on over there! We ain't perfect, but the idea that they aren't a million times worse is madness! When's the last time the US government killed a journalist for writing a mean story? When's the last time they did it a block from the White House?

Edit: that and the fact they've been actively propping up Nazis all over Europe and the US for like a decade or so now that we know of. Damn dude.

 

[Stinkles]

Dude...are..are you ok?



Edit:

Oh my gooooooooooooooooddddddddd

That burn was so sick and malignant that newt left it for a younger prettier tweet.

 

[kirblar]

We've been occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half because we have no good ideas for leaving that doesn't topple the house of cards on our way out. Russia is occupying Crimea because they believe it belongs to them.

Good and evil rhetoric is probably not helpful in sorting geopolitical clashes. But moral equivocation is probably even less helpful.

/|\

We were absolutely correct to get involved. Getting out was always going to be hard, and we made it way harder by invading Iraq.

 

[chadskin]

The US funds parties and paramilitary organizations that work very closely with Neo Nazis. Congress approved blanket funding packages that contained a mechanism to supposedly prevent this money from going to fascist militias like the Azov Battalion, but in 2016 this mechanism was abandoned.

This isn't even accounting for undisclosed funding. As I hope you realize, American agencies have a long and bloody history of secretly funding paramilitaries abroad.

Azov hasn't been a militia since shortly after Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine, it's been formally part of the National Guard for a good three years now. Other militias that were formed in response to Russia's invasion have also long been integrated into regular military structures.

Beyond that, I'm not going to get involved in your goalpost-moving.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Actually, uh, that seems...pretty fair? We have been occupying Afghanistan for a lot longer than Russia has been occupying Crimea, and with less justification.

It's really not. For reasons already laid out above me.

And Russia has no justification other than "it's ours".

They aren't even occupying it they're just outright taking it for themselves.

I mean shit Canada only withdrew 3 years ago themselves.

 

[Valhelm]

There's literally a genocide against gay people going on over there! We ain't perfect, but the idea that they aren't a million times worse is madness! When's the last time the US government killed a journalist for writing a mean story? When's the last time they did it a block from the White House?

Edit: that and the fact they've been actively propping up Nazis all over Europe and the US for like a decade or so now that we know of. Damn dude.

when it comes to gay rights Pence and Putin honestly aren't that far off

Many of the red and orange countries are close American allies. Can't we recognize both Russia and the US do evil things that need to end?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Beaten to the punch on the Afghanistan false equivalence.

I'm not a fan of our involvement, but it's not nearly the same thing.

 

[pigeon]

I wouldn't call myself a tankie because I don't think I'm very authoritarian, but the US is an imperialist country and we as progressives need to change that. Time after time we've tried to crush, co-opt, or undermine every movement of people standing up for themselves, especially if it's in a third world country that hosts lots of American property.

If we abandoned our primacy, and instead had a genuinely egalitarian geopol landscape dominated by international cooperation instead of national might, folks like the Houthis or the government of Bolivia wouldn't feel coerced to saddle up to Putin to protect themselves. Progressive or anti-imperial groups that work with Russia universally fear his regressive ideology, and often have better stances on white supremacy and LGBT liberation than Western liberals, but have been led to believe that accepting Russian support is necessary for their own survival.

We can't support progressive policies at home and fascist policies abroad. This is probably the biggest contradiction of liberalism, and this contradiction goes back as far as Cromwell, who overthrew the monarchy but funded his new government through the plunder and genocide of Ireland. For the past three hundred years, liberals who championed genuinely progressive causes at home have still co-signed or participated in the abuse of colonial territories and subjugated peoples.

Authentic compassion and humanism means recognizing that lives of foreigners aren't less valuable than our own. The Democrats have a really long way to go on that front.

This is all true. It's also all irrelevant to the discussion, which is what makes it whataboutism. Our moral culpability for our government's actions does not somehow forgive the actions Russia is taking to endanger us and destabilize the world order. It is ironic that you say "We can't support progressive policies at home and fascist policies abroad." when that's precisely what you're doing. It's just that the fascist policies you support belong to a different country.

Russia is extremely bad, but I think rhetoric like "global supervillain" casts geopolitics as a clash between good and evil in a way that largely absolves the "good" people opposing the supervillain of their own moral failings. Russia annexing Crimea is very bad, but so is America occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half.

I don't think for my part that I've ever tried to downplay Russian actions (and even though I understand wanting to leave, I'm generally pro-NATO, in particular for the Baltic states) but I think it's important to be careful about the language people use when describing topics as complex as geopolitics and IR.

I mean, Russian governance is actually evil, though. As much as the idea of Western democracy being free and equal is clearly a myth, it is important not to forget that Russia being a despotic police state is not actually a myth, and that the goals and actions Russia is taking will lead directly to the oppression of lots of people. You and Valheim are, perhaps inadvertently, advocating for the kind of bloodless foreign policy Kissinger would be proud of.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

I think we should continue to stay in Afghanistan, and preferably most of the Middle East, but only if we also approve of billions (if not trillions) in mostly-no-strings-attached money and infrastructure projects for them. Germany and Japan got leveled by the Allies but then we actually spent some effort putting the pieces back together.

Spoiler

The answer is of course that we view Germans and Japanese people as civilized compared to Middle Eastern people. Good ol' white supremacy.

edit:

This is all true. It's also all irrelevant to the discussion, which is what makes it whataboutism. Our moral culpability for our government's actions does not somehow forgive the actions Russia is taking to endanger us and destabilize the world order. It is ironic that you say "We can't support progressive policies at home and fascist policies abroad." when that's precisely what you're doing. It's just that the fascist policies you support belong to a different country.

To be fair, this isn't exactly an incorrect worldview if you believe strongly in separate countries. In that light, Bonen doesn't like the things happening within Russia's borders but also doesn't believe that we can or should meaningfully influence what occurs within those borders. I obviously disagree (as I've mentioned that I don't really believe in that distinction between bodies separated by what I believe are imaginary geographic regions) but I'm working on a different set of assumptions.

This actually influences my above post about the Middle East; I don't believe there's a difference between people struggling in the Middle East and people struggling in Houston or Puerto Rico. I don't agree with the concept of "citizens" when it comes to more than just cultural diversity.

 

[B-Dubs]

when it comes to gay rights Pence and Putin honestly aren't that far off

Many of the red and orange countries are close American allies. Can't we recognize both Russia and the US do evil things that need to end?

Call me when Pence starts doing this: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/...g-and-killing-gay-men-russian-paper-says.html

Jesus dude

 

[sphagnum]

The US and Russia are both monstrous imperialist capitalist states, with one being run by a mafia don willing to fund any group to cause destabilization (including Nazis) in his opponent's territories and the other being run by a white supremacist buffoon who was helped into power by said mafioso.

The primary reason I'm more amenable to the US in this rivalry is because it's objectively easier to change our leaders from Great Satans to Little Satans while the other is stuck with a big old Satan for the long haul. That and the US has more progressive pockets overall. But it's still shit!

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Fox News @FoxNews 45m
New fears for @HillaryClinton’s health after 'twisted ankle' or 'broken toe' derails book tour http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-after-ex-candidate-falls-and-hurts-foot.html
---------------------------------------------------------------


Again, let's be reminded that it's 2017, not 2016.

Also, the caption on the embedded video in their article is hilariously-Fox.

 

[pigeon]

We've been occupying Afghanistan for a decade and a half because we have no good ideas for leaving that doesn't topple the house of cards on our way out. Russia is occupying Crimea because they believe it belongs to them.

Good and evil rhetoric is probably not helpful in sorting geopolitical clashes. But moral equivocation is probably even less helpful.

This is actually my point. "These people are ethnically Russian" is, actually, a better argument for occupation than "we fucked up and invaded this country without justification and now we are afraid to leave." Neither are good arguments at all but ours is worse!

If there is no hope of us building a functional state in Afghanistan -- and obviously there has never been any hope of that -- then we should stop occupying them. Will the Taliban take over? Probably. So what? We have shown pretty dramatically by this point that we have no way of removing them or stopping them! We have a responsibility to recognize our own incapabilities. America is not omnipotent. We should stop wasting our collateral, both moral and human, in wars we can never win.

We were absolutely correct to get involved.

Probably no statement about American foreign policy has been as conclusively proven incorrect as this one.

 

[B-Dubs]

The US and Russia are both monstrous imperialist capitalist states, with one being run by a mafia don willing to fund any group to cause destabilization (including Nazis) in his opponent's territories and the other being run by a white supremacist buffoon who was helped into power by said mafioso.

The primary reason I'm more amenable to the US in this rivalry is because it's objectively easier to change our leaders from Great Satans to Little Satans while the other is stuck with a big old Satan for the long haul. That and the US has more progressive pockets overall. But it's still shit!

Again, call me when the US government starts disappearing gay people. Even at his worst Trump still hasn't done as much evil as Putin. Not that he doesn't wish he could.

 

[sphagnum]

Again, call me when the US government starts disappearing gay people. Even at his worst Trump still hasn't done as much evil as Putin. Not that he doesn't wish he could.

I'm not defending Russia. I even said I'd take the US over Russia. You're right - Trump and Pence would do insanely awful things if they could. They can't, which is evidence that the US is still preferable.

I just think it's preferable from the POV of a fight between supervillains.

I think the right has a more active global view? They are more likely to get involved in global affairs and have connections of with other groups in other countries. Largely, liberals are more concerned with their own country and the injustices that their countries does, I guess. Could be wrong about it since there's ANIFA. You see more liberals highlight the negatives of US involvement and not the positives or turn the negative into something better. I don't think I ever heard a left-wing person advocate that the military take on a more humanitarian and a defensive role for example.I'm sure some has, but I see more cutting the military or involve ourselves less, but I think it makes sense that left-wing people are more isolationist.

The left has become increasingly insular in an attempt to find relevance after the collapse of international socialism. No world revolution coming? The USSR turned out bad? Guess we gotta focus on social democracy because the rest was invalidated. That kind of mindset.

 

[Plinko]

Fox News @FoxNews 45m
New fears for @HillaryClinton’s health after 'twisted ankle' or 'broken toe' derails book tour http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-after-ex-candidate-falls-and-hurts-foot.html
---------------------------------------------------------------


Again, let's be reminded that it's 2017, not 2016.

Also, the caption on the embedded video in their article is hilariously-Fox.

I love the quotation marks around the possible injury.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Again, call me when the US government starts disappearing gay people. Even at his worst Trump still hasn't done as much evil as Putin. Not that he doesn't wish he could.

Well, Trump did just say his VP would like to hang them. Though so far, at least, Trump hasn't allowed it.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

I love the quotation marks around the possible injury.

I also made the mistake of scrolling down Fox's twitter feed.

Never again.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Seems like a good time for some oppo🧐

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I mean, Russian governance is actually evil, though. As much as the idea of Western democracy being free and equal is clearly a myth, it is important not to forget that Russia being a despotic police state is not actually a myth, and that the goals and actions Russia is taking will lead directly to the oppression of lots of people. You and Valheim are, perhaps inadvertently, advocating for the kind of bloodless foreign policy Kissinger would be proud of.

I'm not sure I am disagreeing with that and literally in that post you quoted I said that I support maintaining NATO to protect the Baltic states (and expansion to states that desire it) from Russian aggression and I've supported issues like sanctions to attempt to contain Russian expansion. I just think it's important to not cast Russia as "the bad guy" opposed by the "good guy" West (and in particular America) and we certainly wouldn't describe Obama as a "global supervillain" even though he's been directly involved with cultivating what the United Nations calls the world's largest humanitarian crisis.

The US and Russia are both monstrous imperialist capitalist states, with one being run by a mafia don willing to fund any group to cause destabilization (including Nazis) in his opponent's territories and the other being run by a white supremacist buffoon who was helped into power by said mafioso.

The primary reason I'm more amenable to the US in this rivalry is because it's objectively easier to change our leaders from Great Satans to Little Satans while the other is stuck with a big old Satan for the long haul. That and the US has more progressive pockets overall. But it's still shit!

Yeah I agree with all this

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah I agree with all this

Then why did you feel the need to reply to a rather innocuous statement about Russia by shifting the focus to the US?

 

[whyamihere]

when it comes to gay rights Pence and Putin honestly aren't that far off

Many of the red and orange countries are close American allies. Can't we recognize both Russia and the US do evil things that need to end?

I didn't think we could top "actually, gay blood bans make sense" yet here we are.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Dave Zirin‏ @EdgeofSports 16 minutes ago
Replying to @EdgeofSports
Coach Pop wanted to make sure it was "on the record." The full quotes are coming.

Dave Zirin‏@EdgeofSports 18 minutes ago
Just spoke to Gregg Popovich who called Trump a "soulless coward" for lying about Obama & Bush not calling families of fallen soldiers...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the non-sports literate, Popovich is the coach of the 5-time NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs and is also the coach of the US National Team for the 2018/2020 World/Olympic cycle. Pop has not been the least bit shy about criticizing the current buffoon in chief.

 

[B-Dubs]

Well, Trump did just say his VP would like to hang them. Though so far, at least, Trump hasn't allowed it.

That's my point. Despite everything, Trump is still less evil than Putin. Putin has literally been propping up Nazis all over the damn place, from the Golden Dawn to the Alt-right. And yet people are defending him and engaging in whataboutism.

 

[The Technomancer]

Again, call me when the US government starts disappearing gay people. Even at his worst Trump still hasn't done as much evil as Putin. Not that he doesn't wish he could.

I mean, he acknowledges Russia is way worse, but the US does still have a lot of blood on its hands

 

[pigeon]

Can't we recognize both Russia and the US do evil things that need to end?

We literally can't, because when somebody says "Russia does bad things," your response is not "yes, I acknowledge that," but rather "ACTUALLY THE UNITED STATES DOES BAD THINGS." So you're not really holding your end up on this one.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Basically if you want to talk about the US and its ills then do so... but don't do it in response to someone mentioning how fucking evil Russia is...

 

[Plinko]

Dave Zirin‏ @EdgeofSports 16 minutes ago
Replying to @EdgeofSports
Coach Pop wanted to make sure it was "on the record." The full quotes are coming.

Dave Zirin‏@EdgeofSports 18 minutes ago
Just spoke to Gregg Popovich who called Trump a "soulless coward" for lying about Obama & Bush not calling families of fallen soldiers...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the non-sports literate, Popovich is the coach of the 5-time NBA Champion San Antonio Spurs and is also the coach of the US National Team for the 2018/2020 World/Olympic cycle. Pop has not been the least bit shy about criticizing the current buffoon in chief.

Oh, how I love Popovich.

 

[The Technomancer]

The left has become increasingly insular in an attempt to find relevance after the collapse of international socialism. No world revolution coming? The USSR turned out bad? Guess we gotta focus on social democracy because the rest was invalidated. That kind of mindset.

Part of the problem is that the material shifts required for "stop exploiting foreign labor abroad" probably have major popularity and energy issues among "Western" nations, at least that's the feeling I've gotten in recent years.
Unfortunately "socialism results in material losses for those who profit from exploitation" is just as true at any scale, and it seems easier to mobilize people around redistributing the wealth from their own elites than around recognizing that they are the exploiters on a global scale and need to give some up to balance the scales out