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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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the two main parties changed roles so many times throughout history it kind of abrogated the need for a third party. and what exactly defines dems or reps them is kind of broad.

not saying a third party wouldn't work. but i think its pretty fitting, as you have two sides with different fundamental ideals on which direction to take america.
 
517AQZ0S5TL._SL500_SS130_.jpg




Photoshop beckons
 

Zabka

Member
devilhawk said:
You missed the point entirely then. It wasn't a total compare and contrast lifetime experience. When she was chosen Obama and the Democrats said she didn't have the experience. Palin countered with executive experience. Obama countered with community organization is better than small town mayor. This is where the remark comes from. It has everything to do with trying to paint that Palin has a TYPE of experience that Obama doesn't. That was the attempt. It has absolutely nothing to do with Harvard.
You have a video of this? The only comparison I saw him draw was his campaign to her town.
 

Acid08

Banned
devilhawk said:
You missed the point entirely then. It wasn't a total compare and contrast lifetime experience. When she was chosen Obama and the Democrats said she didn't have the experience. Palin countered with executive experience. Obama countered with community organization is better than small town mayor. This is where the remark comes from. It has everything to do with trying to paint that Palin has a TYPE of experience that Obama doesn't. That was the attempt. It has absolutely nothing to do with Harvard.
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Obama have more Senate experience than Palin?
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Finally catching up on yesterday's Daily Show... and holy fuck. Jon Stewart is on during these elections. He single handily exposed the Republicans hypocrisy in one big swoop.
 

Zeliard

Member
devilhawk said:
You missed the point entirely then. It wasn't a total compare and contrast lifetime experience. When she was chosen Obama and the Democrats said she didn't have the experience. Palin countered with executive experience. Obama countered with community organization is better than small town mayor. This is where the remark comes from. It has everything to do with trying to paint that Palin has a TYPE of experience that Obama doesn't. That was the attempt. It has absolutely nothing to do with Harvard.

When did he say this?

And there's a very specific reason as to why Palin was being attacked for her experience in particular as soon as she was picked.
 

Acid08

Banned
Gaborn said:
Hey, I'm not particularly offended, but it's probably not a good idea to use that term since the mods do check for it some and enforce it.
It just pissed me off that she has the audacity to say something negative about SF which is one of this country's landmark cities.
 

Xenon

Member
ronito said:
It is telling. It shows the condescension of the republican party that so many have been arguing against for so long. Let me switch just two words:

""I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a being a woman, except that you have actual responsibilities,"

This certainly wouldn't be allowed, why is it ok with volunteers? You might think it's just a sentence, but it's just more proof of the republicans race to the basest of human emotions. It's a piss poor tactic that will endear her to republicans and put off just about everyone else. Palin would've been smart to tell the person that wrote that speech for her that line was going a little too far.


What! Volunteers are not some special protected group. Its not like people are saying "Let People not be judged by race, gender, age or volunteer status. Seriously this is what Im talking about. All of a sudden Community leaders are some sacred cow that can not be spoken ill of in public. People make all kinds of condescending statements that offend some people. Im sure there are thousands in all the NeoGaf political threads. It was a cheap shot. That may have been somewhat offensive when put under the microscope. But how is that any different than when people here belittle others faith or beliefs trying to make their points.
 
Like Presidents actually micro-manage anything

They come up with an idea, and then ask the experts for options and opinions
 

maynerd

Banned
Xenon said:
What! Volunteers are not some special protected group. Its not like people are saying "Let People not be judged by race, gender, age or volunteer status. Seriously this is what Im talking about. All of a sudden Community leaders are some sacred cow that can not be spoken ill of in public. People make all kinds of condescending statements that offend some people. Im sure there are thousands in all the NeoGaf political threads. It was a cheap shot. That may have been somewhat offensive when put under the microscope. But how is that any different than when people here belittle others faith or beliefs trying to make their points.

POW!
 

devilhawk

Member
Well, first I was lumping Obama or Palin with their campaigns and talking heads. Hell, Palin has only spoken once. It was definitely implied by the democratic camp that because of the size of the town it meant less.

Obviously, he has more senate experience. Was that in contention?
 
Stoney Mason said:
Point me to his statement that reflects this. I remember him talking about the size of his campaign.

He never responded in that way, you know the game that some of the repubs like to play here. Now watch the guy not respond to your question and disappear for a while. Few pages later he'll be back, spouting the same ol fantasy bullshit.

Anyway, you guys better be out with me this weekend going door to door for barrack! Rudy 9iu11ani may laugh at you, but it's all good.
 
Xenon said:
But how is that any different than people here belittle people faith or beliefs trying to make their points.
Those people on this board aren't under the aegis of the Democratic party. They aren't arguing as a democrat. They are arguing as individuals. And individuals can be assholes or not be assholes. She is a politician. She is making a political speech.
 

ronito

Member
Xenon said:
What! Volunteers are not some special protected group. Its not like people are saying "Let People not be judged by race, gender, age or volunteer status. Seriously this is what Im talking about. All of a sudden Community leaders are some sacred cow that can not be spoken ill of in public. People make all kinds of condescending statements that offend some people. Im sure there are thousands in all the NeoGaf political threads. It was a cheap shot. That may have been somewhat offensive when put under the microscope. But how is that any different than people here belittle people faith or beliefs trying to make their points.
Well first off, we're not running for Vice President of the United States. Though I do think I might be quite qualified.
 
ronito said:
Well first off, we're not running for Vice President of the United States. Though I do think I might be quite qualified.

Umm, if you can't hunt a moose you need to get the fuck out.
 

numble

Member
Xenon said:
But how is that any different than when people here belittle others faith or beliefs trying to make their points.

So any type of belittling that people on GAF do means it is fair game for a politician to do?
 
Acid08 said:
It just pissed me off that she has the audacity to say something negative about SF which is one of this country's landmark cities.


Republicans are aloud to bash San Franciso or New York or any othet major metropolis for their big city (hint:"queer") values. When you make a comment about small towns though that is un-American. Get with the program.
 

Zeliard

Member
Xenon said:
What! Volunteers are not some special protected group. Its not like people are saying "Let People not be judged by race, gender, age or volunteer status. Seriously this is what Im talking about. All of a sudden Community leaders are some sacred cow that can not be spoken ill of in public. People make all kinds of condescending statements that offend some people. Im sure there are thousands in all the NeoGaf political threads. It was a cheap shot. That may have been somewhat offensive when put under the microscope. But how is that any different than when people here belittle others faith or beliefs trying to make their points.

Uh, we're not running for office. Can you point me to a statement that Obama or Biden has made that can be construed as even remotely hateful towards the Republicans or what they value?
 
Acid08 said:
It just pissed me off that she has the audacity to say something negative about SF which is one of this country's landmark cities.
SF is a red meat code word for the GOP. SF means librulz, GAYZ, femi-nazis, enviro-crazies, etc. to GOPers.

Never mind that it is a hugely successful and beautiful city with very high property costs.

I'd call it jealously. :lol
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Stoney Mason said:
I'm saying the funding laws, ballot laws, and infrastructure setup by the dominant political parties makes it very difficult for outside parties without massive amounts of money to do anything. The only recent third party that was able to anything was due to the money and ego of a billionaire.
There is truth in that, but the fact is that if you could GET enough members for a new party in a state, you'd have full access to funding (unless I'm incredibly wrong about this)... ballot laws are the only odd thing, but that's more about primaries than actual elections - I find it rather appalling that the state governments are essentially paying for the primary elections of private groups. However, that's what gets approved when those two primary groups are in office.

A new political party could form, but it would have to get its own funding and infrastructure. It's unfair to blame those issues on the two major parties, as THEY had to do both when they were founded. Joe McBozo can still get on any state ballot by following that state's requirements, and he can start his own political part of likeminded folks to promote the election of other likeminded folks. It's hard and, quite frankly, nearly impossible to do so, but that's because of the American voters and the general popularity of both political parties. Yeah, there are problems, but most people still seem comfortable identifying as members of either of the two big parties...

The best chance of a new party would be if either major one split... starting an entirely new party without SOME sort of precursor never really does very well, as Teddy and Big Ear Guy can both attest to.
 

devilhawk

Member
Acid08 said:
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Obama have more Senate experience than Palin?
Hence, why I said they were trying to convey that she has a different "TYPE" of experience. Not saying that strategy is best but you must see the differentiation.

Also, please tell me where in
Palin said:
We tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one way in Scranton and another way in San Francisco.
was she trying to take shots at SF? Taken literally this is nothing but saying these are in fact two distinct places. Yes, there are prejudices and misconceptions about different places, but if you think of them here it is only because you think about them in reference to the cities.
 

Xenon

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Those people on this board aren't under the aegis of the Democratic party. They aren't arguing as a democrat. They are arguing as individuals. And individuals can be assholes or not be assholes. She is a politician. She is making a political speech.

True. But she was also flat out attacked by the media. I read the comment more for them to point out the double standard. This all happened before all the other dirt came out.
 

Xenon

Member
Stoney Mason said:
So what prominent Democrats are out there bashing religion?


[sees open door] Ok


clings to Guns and religeon

who said this again ;)


edit: I have to sleep =P
 

devilhawk

Member
Byakuya769 said:
He never responded in that way, you know the game that some of the repubs like to play here. Now watch the guy not respond to your question and disappear for a while. Few pages later he'll be back, spouting the same ol fantasy bullshit.
I did respond.
 
Xenon said:
True. But she was also flat out attacked by the media. I read the comment more for them to point out the double standard. This all happened before all the other dirt came out.

This is the fundamental divide. She is no more being attacked than any random unknown politician who is selected for vice president would be. No one knows anything about her. That means questions are going to be asked. Even more so for somebody the media doesn't know than a prominent public figure.
 

ronito

Member
Xenon said:
[sees open door] Ok


clings to Guns and religeon

who said this again ;)
Didn't Obama apologize? How many weeks was that on the media? Hell it was brought up in Palin's own speech. It's been a day, I'd say we got at least 2-3 more weeks before it'd play out by those standards. Unless of course there's a different standard you'd like to apply Palin. A "second standard" or "double standard" if you will as you're so apt to use those words.
 

Xenon

Member
ryutaro's mama said:
And how is that bashing religion?


Its just bashing people motivation for practicing and belieiving it.


ronito said:
How many weeks was that on the media? It's been a day, I'd say we got at least 2-3 more weeks before it'd play out by those standards.

It was a direct comment so it should have.
 
Xenon said:
[sees open door] Ok


clings to Guns and religeon

who said this again ;)


edit: I have to sleep =P

While I probably don't think it was a politically smart thing for Obama to say that isn't an attack on religion. That is an observation about religion and if it's an attack on anything its an attack on the mentality of small town america which I personally agree with but that's a private opinion. He probably shouldn't have said it publicly, but he is religious man himself from all appearances so its hardly a core attack on the legitimacy of religion.
 
devilhawk said:
I did respond.

With "oh I wasn't talking about Obama per se.. I was talking about his talking heads and how they downplay her being a mayor".

Now explain to me how that is the same thing as "Obama responded by comparing his community service to her Mayor tenure and saying his experience is better."

Sorry to embellish the meme, but cognitive dissonance is contagious around here...
 

AniHawk

Member
Xenon said:
What! Volunteers are not some special protected group. Its not like people are saying "Let People not be judged by race, gender, age or volunteer status. Seriously this is what Im talking about. All of a sudden Community leaders are some sacred cow that can not be spoken ill of in public. People make all kinds of condescending statements that offend some people. Im sure there are thousands in all the NeoGaf political threads. It was a cheap shot. That may have been somewhat offensive when put under the microscope. But how is that any different than people here belittle people faith or beliefs trying to make their points.

These are people who volunteer their time to help those in need get back on their feet. What Palin and your boy Giuliani did was belittle the effort they spend as not having responsibility, like these people just sit around and collect checks at the end of the day.

The big difference between Palin and Obama, and this is aside from Palin being corrupt to the gills, is that Obama worked in this campaign. He had to work to get black folks on board. He had to work to convince people that he was the right guy for the job. He helped create a movement that defeated the Clinton machine of all things. And all the while, the media was questioning who he was and what he's done, because they don't really know what he's all about because he's so new. But now, he's earned it. He had to work for those votes, and now Palin was chosen, without doing anything else but being a female neocon, and she's getting the same treatment that he did. Who is she? What has she done? Because we don't really know what she's all about because she's so new.

She strikes me as an opportunist. Not the good kind, y'know, a risk-taker, but someone who wants to move forward with her own selfish goals. She brought up Hillary Clinton's support on day one and acted like it was her own support just because she has a vagina. She acts like she's entitled to the women vote in a way Barack Obama never acted like he was entitled to the black vote. And with only having spoke to McCain for 15 minutes and then once more on the phone, she decides to be the VP. She decides that she's the right person for the job, despite never being in the national spotlight, despite being woefully uneducated on the major issues of the American people, despite having run a city of 9,000 and left them with a $20m debt, despite keeping the money from the Bridge to Nowhere, despite her cronyism, despite having been part of the AIP, despite using religion to judge what books to read, despite her executive power to stall an independent investigation, despite her lack of professionalism regarding political foes such as Lyda Green, despite not even knowing what a VP does every day just a month before she was chosen, she agrees with John McCain and decides she's the right person for the job.

So yeah, this newbie's gonna come under a lot of scrutiny, and she really should. Nobody knows who she is and in her biggest appearance, she attacks the people who help others. Pathetic.
 

Zeliard

Member
AniHawk said:
He had to work to get black folks on board.

I think a lot of people have forgotten about this. At one point, Obama was being questioned as to whether or not he was "black enough", and a large chunk of African-Americans were supporting Hillary at the time. Granted, Bill Clinton helped some to change all that, but Obama made huge in-roads with the black community as well and they became dominant and strident supporters of his. It helps when you run a beautifully organized campaign.
 

devilhawk

Member
Byakuya769 said:
With "oh I wasn't talking about Obama per se.. I was talking about his talking heads and how they downplay her being a mayor".

Now explain to me how that is the same thing as "Obama responded by comparing his community service to her Mayor tenure and saying his experience is better."

Sorry to embellish the meme, but cognitive dissonance is contagious around here...
I was giving the order of how things broke in the media. So one can assume that it was to counter. It was just a laundry list anyways of the talking points that happened immediately after Palin was announced. You can't cherry pick here. I was obviously lumping the talking heads in for both sides you can't deny that because I stated that Palin responded to the experience barb. She never spoke at all before the speech. This entire experience debate was played out the weekend before this convention.

Obama press release said:
Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency.
Some assumptions can be made here because AND ONLY BECAUSE he then retracted it:
OBAMA himself said:
I think that, uh, you know, campaigns start getting these, uh, hair triggers and, uh, the statement that Joe and I put out reflects our sentiments
This was referencing the second statement commending Palin.
 
Stoney Mason said:
So what prominent Democrats are out there bashing religion?
I'll bash religion. Of course I'm not a Democrat. And bashing religion offends Obama as much as it offends the GOPers who seem to think they own Christianity.

Religion is superstition with a large number of followers.
 
Oh yeah, apparently when she was trying to become mayor she WON with something like 600 votes and then got re-elected with around 900 votes. So that shows you what they are working with in Wasilla.
 
BoboBrazil said:
Oh yeah, apparently when she was trying to become mayor she WON with something like 600 votes and then got re-elected with around 900 votes. So that shows you what they are working with in Wasilla.

But she had REAL RESPONSIBILITIES!!!!
 
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