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[Dolphin]

Yes, and bad Supreme Court decisions require a lot to overturn.

a) Almost all the original voters in favor of the bad decision have to die.

b) The "oh noes, stare decisis!!1!" group has to either be in the minority, or also comprise a larger group that is more concerned with rectifying the previous wrong.

c) Most obviously, the people that want to overturn the bad decision have to number 5 or higher.

Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Alito vs. Ginsburg, Stevens, Souter, Breyer

with Kennedy being a centrist overly concerned with stare decisis = no dice.

Couldn't stocking the bench entirely with republicans result in many more problems related to legislating from the bench considering that their opinions would be largely uncontested? Isn't this called cutting off your nose to spite your face?

 

[Zeliard]

if only the posters here agreed to do town halls together, maybe this thread wouldn't be so negative

That has changed the tenor of this thread somewhat.

 

[worldrunover]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

 

[adamsappel]

worldrunover: I've long noted people aren't going to be voting on FP this year. Plus, people don't vote on VP. You say, this is about McCain's judgment because he's basically dead already and we just have to collect the corpse but the least he could have done was leave us Mitt Romney to warm the seat for Hillary's ascension, and to an extent I agree but I'm also not likely to vote for a Republican ticket in the first place.

I think people have generally not voted for Vice President because the choice hasn't really been an issue before. Even Dan Quayle had served a couple of Senate terms when he was picked, and nobody thought George H.W. Bush might die in office. Judging from Clinton and G.W. Bush's time-portal aging, the office is very stressful and that doesn't bode well for the oldest man ever elected president, with a history of cancer besides.

Okay, who are you going to vote for, then, if not McCain? Write-in Hillary?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Changing abortion law requires overturning supreme court decisions. That's only possible if more liberal justices are replaced with conservative ones. A small chance is larger than no chance.

And that's why I hate this issue. Say you win this one. Is that going to be the end of it? What happens when it appears that a couple of conservative judges are on their way out? This is a perpetual issue that's never going to get a definitive resolution since people are too divided and too passionate about it. There really aren't intellectual debates to be had on it. I really long for the day when it ceases to infect the national political forum.

 

[Gaborn]

I know. You would vote for nobody I'm assuming and the issue would stay the same as long as Republicans are in control yet argue they are better for gay rights across the board.

Actually many historians believe the South was going to essentially be forced to give up slavery anyway regardless of the civil war an the fight over cessation.

 

[Dolphin]

That one extra justice on the Supreme Court who upheld the partial birth abortion ban made all the difference in 2007 and that ban was very, very big progress in my book. The fact that a ban on partial birth abortion even needed a 5-4 choice is actually really sad for me. While I'm not going to vote for McCain I'd be ashamed if I help to elect Obama and he changes the balance of the court too far pro-choice.

If you're not willing to vote for McCain, wouldn't it be prudent to vote for the president that would be most likely to increase your own quality of life? Would you call yourself a "one issue voter?"

 

[Tamanon]

The whole "strict constructionist" argument went out the window for me when the constructionists all came to the decision to deny habeus corpus to Gitmo detainees. That showed they don't care about the letter of the constitution any more than the so-called "bench legislators".

 

[woeds]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

No, Zogby is

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

In all seriousness, if this nonsense wins McCain the election, Obama never would have won anyway. America is what it is.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Well, the decision basically survives 5-4 right now. And the next 2 justices most likely to retire are liberal ones.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would take this + someone asshole actually trying to prosecute a woman for murder for having an abortion, then years of appeals before it even got to the supreme court?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Some more clips of McCain on The View:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/mccain-grilled-on-the-vie_n_125972.html

wow. thats awesome. i wish one of them would have known that 'In God We Trust' was actually added in 1956, and has nothing to do with our founding fathers.. would have been so great to see him fumble that!

 

[Tamanon]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

Talk about wildly different numbers. Good ol' Zogby.

 

[Fatalah]

Zogby is always wrong, just ask John Kerry supporters.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Actually many historians believe the South was going to essentially be forced to give up slavery anyway regardless of the civil war an the fight over cessation.

And Republicans will eventually allow gays in the military. It will just takes decades and decades and decades to reverse their hostile positions on the issue in the meantime while lots of gays continue to get bounced from the military.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

Link? Is this Zogby Ineractive?

No way on earth PA goes red this year. Dems have a 1m+ regustration advantage, up half a million from 2004.

 

[worldrunover]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would take this + someone asshole actually trying to prosecute a woman for murder for having an abortion, then years of appeals before it even got to the supreme court?

They would have to prosecute the doctor, I would assume. But yes.

 

[thekad]

Sure, but I said I supported Lincoln's support for the 13th amendment, from there you pointed out he did not initially support that, and I stated that I never claimed I'd support Lincoln's election.

You ignored my post.

Frederick Douglass, the man you said you would support, supported Lincoln and the Republican party. Because he knew, like everyone else, civil rights movements happen in steps and the Republicans were the best party to promote his cause. The Democrats are the best party to forward your cause, at least in this one case.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Zogby is always wrong, just ask John Kerry supporters.

Uh oh.

 

[Gaborn]

And Republicans will eventually allow gays in the military. It will just takes decades and decades and decades to reverse their hostile positions on the issue in the meantime while lots of gays continue to get bounced from the military.

I wouldn't be overly shocked if people that aren't gay also use it if they decide they want to leave the military early as well.

Thekad - I haven't seen anything that suggested prior to his election Douglass supported Lincoln. After the fact he worked with him and supported him and influenced him.

 

[Mr Jared]

Did you guys see this one? The 15th Annual Funniest Celebrity in Washington Contest was held this week and Huckabee sounds like he had some winners.

Huckabee also poked fun at his onetime Republican primary rival, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. "Mitt has more positions than an underaged Chinese gymnast," Huckabee said.

He won, btw: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5779920&page=1

 

[140.85]

Not to add to the panic, but new Zogby numbers on some swing states:

Florida: + 10 McCain
Missouri: + 6 McCain
Ohio: + 6 McCain
Pennsylvania: + 5 McCain

No, I'm not making that up.

Meh, it's Zogby though...

 

[Tamanon]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it would take this + someone asshole actually trying to prosecute a woman for murder for having an abortion, then years of appeals before it even got to the supreme court?

It would take time yeah, but they are lifelong appointments after all. You never know, one of the "conservative" ones might change their mind, who knows.

 

[laserbeam]

In all seriousness, if this nonsense wins McCain the election, Obama never would have won anyway. America is what it is.

If McCain wins I think its well deserved. If the Democrats can't win 3 Elections in a Row that should have gone to them How can we trust them to handle the Government.

 

[The Lamonster]

In all seriousness, if this nonsense wins McCain the election, Obama never would have won anyway. America is what it is.

Exactly.

Sometimes, when I think I hear a noise in my house and I wonder if someone has broken in, I just think "well if they got in this easily, I was already fucked in the first place!"

 

[worldrunover]

Link? Is this Zogby Ineractive?

No way on earth PA goes red this year. Dems have a 1m+ regustration advantage, up half a million from 2004.

Sorry, it will be updated tomorrow, just heard Zogby on POTUS '08 and he gave these early numbers. I don't know why Zogby is generally untrustworthy, but they are a polling company so I'm just relaying the data. He also said McCain had something like a 22 point lead(!!!) over Obama in regards to men. Obama holds a slight lead among women.

 

[Beer Monkey]

A supporter writes to Andrew Sullivan:

Like many Obama supporters, I’ve been in a poll-induced funk recently. So I went to the Obama HQ in downtown Orlando looking for a t-shirt, a bumper sticker, something, anything, to make myself not feel so damn worried. Here’s what I found:

1. A brisk campaign operation staffed mostly by 25-35 year olds, all at computers, all analyzing data on GOTV operations.

2. After speaking with my precinct captain who was present, she told me that since August 1, the downtown HQ has registered 80,000 new voters. Let that number sink in. In the last 40 days or so, they’ve registered an average of 2,000 voters per day.

 

[Loudninja]

Sorry, it will be updated tomorrow, just heard Zogby on POTUS '08 and he gave these early numbers. I don't know why Zogby is generally untrustworthy, but they are a polling company so I'm just relaying the data. He also said McCain had something like a 22 point lead(!!!) over Obama in regards to men. Obama holds a slight lead among women.

:lol

 

[Stoney Mason]

I wouldn't be overly shocked if people that aren't gay also use it if they decide they want to leave the military early as well.

Like I say there is no real where for the debate to go between us. Just wanted to get my feelings and position out. I understand your position. I just fundamentally disagree with the notion that the party that is hostile to your interests are the best party to actually represent your interests. Especially when it's mostly based on religious bigotry or pandering to said religious bigotry.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

If McCain wins I think its well deserved. If the Democrats can't win 3 Elections in a Row that should have gone to them How can we trust them to handle the Government.

If he's elected by a majority, he should be president. It has nothing to do with deserving it. The Giants don't deserve to win a football game. They just scored the most points.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

A supporter writes to Andrew Sullivan:

Good. Only problem is getting those newly registered voters to VOTE.

 

[laserbeam]

If he's elected by a majority, he should be president. It has nothing to do with deserving it. The Giants don't deserve to win a football game. They just scored the most points.

I agree with you I think its just sad if the Democrats lose again. This is the Democrats Election to lose more than any other ever before.

Was underwhelmed by the new "attack" style ads that were to come out today. Attacking McCain cause he isnt an expert with a computer if thats the more forceful attacks then they are fucked.

 

[TheFightingFish]

If you're not willing to vote for McCain, wouldn't it be prudent to vote for the president that would be most likely to increase your own quality of life? Would you call yourself a "one issue voter?"

Nope, like I said I'm a three issue voter. The more people like me there are the more likely it is that one party or another will bend on one issue to a side that I like. I'm not going to waver on my critria as I consider these issues (abortion on one side vs. Iraq war / capital punishment on the other) equally offensive. If there are enough people like me then parties will change their policies (slowly perhaps) to try to win our vote. I'm not selling out for anything less.

 

[Dolphin]

If McCain wins I think its well deserved. If the Democrats can't win 3 Elections in a Row that should have gone to them How can we trust them to handle the Government.

You're right, the ability to win a popularity contest is a crucial talent to possess when governing. The last 8 years are testimony to that fact.

 

[Gaborn]

Like I say there is no real where for the debate to go between us. Just wanted to get my feelings and position out. I understand your position. I just fundamentally disagree with the notion that the party that is hostile to your interests are the best party to actually represent your interests.

Fair enough, my last comment would be just to point out I'd say that McCain wouldn't be "representing" my interests, rather being able to openly point to his bigotry is easier than being able to explain why Obama's position is bigoted.

 

[The Lamonster]

I agree with you I think its just sad if the Democrats lose again. This is the Democrats Election to lose more than any other ever before.

Was underwhelmed by the new "attack" style ads that were to come out today. Attacking McCain cause he isnt an expert with a computer if thats the more forceful attacks then they are fucked.

Sad but true, folks.

 

[ViperVisor]

I never got a explanation of how support for the GOP/Right is not ASININE if you are a pro liberty guy or more specifically gay rights after this debacle

Lawrence v. Texas

John Geddes Lawrence, then 55, and Tyron Garner (1967–2006),[2] then 31, were alleged to have been engaging in consensual anal sex in Lawrence's apartment in the outskirts of Houston between 10:30 and 11 p.m. on September 17, 1998 when Harris County sheriff's deputy Joseph Quinn entered the unlocked apartment, with his weapon drawn, arresting the two.

charged with violating Texas's anti-sodomy statute, the Texas "Homosexual Conduct" law. The law, Chapter 21, Sec. 21.06 of the Texas Penal Code, designated it as a Class C misdemeanor when someone "engages in deviant sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex" prohibiting anal and oral sex between members of the same sex.

Who dissented? The ones who the right-wing would force replacements to be like.

Scalia
Rehnquist
Thomas

Pack your FUCKING bags to Funky Town if you wanna spin this.

 

[worldrunover]

You're right, the ability to win a popularity contest is a crucial talent to possess when governing. The last 8 years are testimony to that fact.

Are you suggesting the alternative (communism, facism, dictatorship) is a better idea?

I would stop there...

 

[JayDubya]

It would take time yeah, but they are lifelong appointments after all. You never know, one of the "conservative" ones might change their mind, who knows.

Blackmun was appointed by Nixon.

Or more modern, Stevens by Ford, Souter by Bush.

 

[saelz8]

Well, I thought this was interesting.

The Center for Disease Control estimates there have been, on average, 2.5 million deaths in America each year since 2005, the overwhelming number of whom were 65 years and older. Since it is generally conceded that John McCain will win the over 65 vote the actuarial tables present a problem. But you say millions have turned 65 since 2004. Correct, but among the people who were 61-64 in 2004 the vote split evenly between Kerry and Bush.

Source

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I agree with you I think its just sad if the Democrats lose again. This is the Democrats Election to lose more than any other ever before.

Was underwhelmed by the new "attack" style ads that were to come out today. Attacking McCain cause he isnt an expert with a computer if thats the more forceful attacks then they are fucked.

That ad was stupidly dumb, no doubt, but if clear forceful enunciation of his policies (which he has done for months now) doesn't win the election

a) A majority of Americans hold different views of those policies
or
b) A majority of Americans don't give a shit

In either of those instances, John McCain doesn't "deserve" to win, nor is it "sad" if the democrats lose again. We live in a democratic society where the majority of the voting public decides who wins the election.

 

[Gaborn]

I never got a explanation of how support for the GOP/Right is not ASININE if you are a pro liberty guy or more specifically gay rights after this debacle

Lawrence v. Texas



Who dissented? The ones who the right-wing would force replacements to be like.

Scalia
Rehnquist
Thomas

Pack your FUCKING bags to Funky Ttown if you wanna spin this.

You are aware those justices said if they were in the legislature and it came up to a vote they would support repealing the law in question, right? They just didn't feel it was appropriate for the Court to overturn the Bowers v. Hardwick precedent. I disagree with them on that issue but the Court came to the right decision. As I said though, I'm not depending on a Court decision to give me equality.

 

[GhaleonEB]

A supporter writes to Andrew Sullivan:

A nice reality check. While we (me?) get all worked up over the polls, the Obama camp has their head down executing the long-term strategy.

 

[Dolphin]

Nope, like I said I'm a three issue voter. The more people like me there are the more likely it is that one party or another will bend on one issue to a side that I like. I'm not going to waver on my critria as I consider these issues (abortion on one site vs. Iraq war / capital punishment on the other) equally offensive. If there are enough people like me then parties will change their policies (slowly perhaps) to try to win our vote. I'm not selling out for anything less.

But if you don't vote at all and your views are in conflict with both majorities, then aren't you essentially unnecessary to cater to for either party? Is this more or less logical than voting for issues that affect you more and conceding the issues that affect you less?

 

[VanMardigan]

Link? Is this Zogby Ineractive?

No way on earth PA goes red this year. Dems have a 1m+ regustration advantage, up half a million from 2004.

Pennsylvania going red would pretty much hand the elections to McCain in the same way that an Ohio or Florida victory would hand it to Obama.

 

[Zeliard]

Good. Only problem is getting those newly registered voters to VOTE.

The "why bother voting" thread was worrying. If any significant amount of young Obama supporters feel that their vote doesn't mean shit, the man is in trouble come November, and all this enthusiasm among the 18-25 demographic will be for naught.

 

[JayDubya]

I never got a explanation of how support for the GOP/Right is not ASININE if you are a pro liberty guy or more specifically gay rights after this debacle

Lawrence v. Texas



Who dissented? The ones who the right-wing would force replacements to be like.

Scalia
Rehnquist
Thomas

Pack your FUCKING bags to Funky Town if you wanna spin this.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-102.ZD.html

Here you go. Scalia explaining originalism, as well as federalism to you, and also castigating his peers for only respecting stare decisis when convenient, for good measure.

 

[Dolphin]

Are you suggesting the alternative (communism, facism, dictatorship) is a better idea?

I would stop there...

I won't stop, because you completely misunderstand me. Are you suggesting that the point of the election is to determine the nominees' aptitude for governance, or the ability to govern in a manner that best represents the desires of the people? Because one of the two is an entirely sad state of affairs.

 

[yoopoo]

After the hilarious ABC's Plain interview...guess who's the next person to ask her some tough questions, Hannity. Interview on Tuesday.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

A nice reality check. While we (me?) get all worked up over the polls, the Obama camp has their head down executing the long-term strategy.

It gets well better.

I know they probably won’t keep up that pace, but even half that is good.

3. Consider that Florida was won by Bush in 2004 by 380,000 votes. Nader got 33,000 votes. I don’t even think he’s on the ballot in Florida this year. Assume that most of those go to Obama. The margin, to beat the Bush turnout in 2004, is 350,000 (give or take 50,000 votes.)

4. To win Florida, Obama needs everything Kerry got plus 400,000 votes.

5. Of those 80,000 newly registered voters (whose info won’t be available for pollsters for weeks, if not ever, before the election), the campaign has identified over 80% as Obama supporters. That’s 64,000 new Obama votes since Aug 1.

6. Assume they decrease their registration by 50% in September, and 50% in October. After all, there are only so many people not registered to vote. That would be another 60,000 voters, with approximately 48,000 new Obama votes, who can’t be polled. All together, that’s 112,000 new Obama votes. In Central Florida alone. Since Aug 1. 25% of the 400k to get Florida’s 27 electoral votes. Since Aug 1.

7. Of course, you have to get people to the polls. However, the precinct captain said that the 80% support of the newly registered voters has a built-in no-show formula.

8. I mentioned my worry over the polls. Without condescension, without a dirty look, or a snide quip, she said, calmly as possible, “we aren’t running the Florida campaign based on polls, we’re running it based on votes. There are so many people who have signed up to vote that pollsters can’t even reach, that the only thing the campaign is looking at right now is the GOTV operation and their own internal polls which are run much more specifically than, for instance, the state Mason-Dixon polls commissioned by the Florida newspapers.”