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[TheFightingFish]

But if you don't vote at all and your views are in conflict with both majorities, then aren't you essentially unnecessary to cater to for either party? Is this more or less logical than voting for issues that affect you more and conceding the issues that affect you less?

Like I mentioned earlier with Obama's views on abortion I think both parties have wiggle room that they could use to pick up voters like me while still retaining their core. The example I picked earlier is that Obama softening his stance on abortion just a little (say no abortions after 24 weeks without a strong health issue from the mother) would pick up a fair number of people like me. While at the same time Obama would not lose any but the most hardcore or NARAL types as they still would greatly prefer him over McCain. In a close election (like this one will be) moves like this could make the difference for either candidate.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

so APF is tolerable now? is that the concensus?

I've always loved APF.

Gaborn is great fun too, and JayDub is a piece of awesome pie. I don't agree with Gabby or Jay too often, but neither of them are lightweights.

I respect them quite a bit. APF for playing devils advocate at all times:lol , and Gabby and Jay because neither gives up. Neither insults to get their point across.

Which has to be hard for them considering how many liberals there are in these forums.:lol

So... what's happened in the six hours I've been asleep?

 

[SnakeXs]

The "why bother voting" thread was worrying. If any significant amount of young Obama supporters feel that their vote doesn't mean shit, the man is in trouble come November, and all this enthusiasm among the 18-25 demographic will be for naught.

Bingo. I fucking hope the Obama motivating young people shit materializes. If those stoners who signed up sleep on on the 4th I'm gonna murder someone.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Bingo. I fucking hope the Obama motivating young people shit materializes. If those stoners who signed up sleep on on the 4th I'm gonna murder someone.

3. Consider that Florida was won by Bush in 2004 by 380,000 votes. Nader got 33,000 votes. I don’t even think he’s on the ballot in Florida this year. Assume that most of those go to Obama. The margin, to beat the Bush turnout in 2004, is 350,000 (give or take 50,000 votes.)

4. To win Florida, Obama needs everything Kerry got plus 400,000 votes.

5. Of those 80,000 newly registered voters (whose info won’t be available for pollsters for weeks, if not ever, before the election), the campaign has identified over 80% as Obama supporters. That’s 64,000 new Obama votes since Aug 1.

6. Assume they decrease their registration by 50% in September, and 50% in October. After all, there are only so many people not registered to vote. That would be another 60,000 voters, with approximately 48,000 new Obama votes, who can’t be polled. All together, that’s 112,000 new Obama votes. In Central Florida alone. Since Aug 1. 25% of the 400k to get Florida’s 27 electoral votes. Since Aug 1.

7. Of course, you have to get people to the polls. However, the precinct captain said that the 80% support of the newly registered voters has a built-in no-show formula.

8. I mentioned my worry over the polls. Without condescension, without a dirty look, or a snide quip, she said, calmly as possible, “we aren’t running the Florida campaign based on polls, we’re running it based on votes. There are so many people who have signed up to vote that pollsters can’t even reach, that the only thing the campaign is looking at right now is the GOTV operation and their own internal polls which are run much more specifically than, for instance, the state Mason-Dixon polls commissioned by the Florida newspapers.”

 

[ViperVisor]

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-102.ZD.html

Here you go. Scalia explaining originalism, as well as federalism to you, and also castigating his peers for only respecting stare decisis when convenient, for good measure.

FUCK Scalia's lectures after his flip flop on Bush v. Gore. FUCK his bullshit to hell.

 

[JayDubya]

Neither insults to get their point across.

I try really hard not to take things personally or make my responses personal, but with some folks, I have to try really hard.

 

[VanMardigan]

4. To win Florida, Obama needs everything Kerry got plus 400,000 votes.

And in the rest of that paragraph, I didn't see evidence that they would get enough. But I'll cross my fingers.

 

[Wolffen]

I'm probably blind, but I didn't see this in the last few pages:
New Evidence that Palin had Direct Role in Charging Rape Victims for Exams

 

[GhaleonEB]

It gets well better.

And registrations won't slow down. They will pick up.

 

[worldrunover]

I won't stop, because you completely misunderstand me. Are you suggesting that the point of the election is to determine the nominees' aptitude for governance, or the ability to govern in a manner that best represents the desires of the people? Because one of the two is an entirely sad state of affairs.

We vote based on who we think is the best candidate, and everyone has their own criteria. If the will of the people is to elect McCain, then it simply is because voters prefer him over the alternative. There's not too much involved in the process to be honest.

 

[Beer Monkey]

4. To win Florida, Obama needs everything Kerry got plus 400,000 votes.

Maybe Ed Koch can flip a hundred thousand old Jews.

 

[SCReuter]

Here's a good video to spread around.

Sorry if already posted.

 

[Dolphin]

Bingo. I fucking hope the Obama motivating young people shit materializes. If those stoners who signed up sleep in on the 4th I'm gonna murder someone.

I've voted in every election since I turned 18. People that don't vote, and then complain about circumstances infuriate me.

We vote based on who we think is the best candidate, and everyone has their own criteria. If the will of the people is to elect McCain, then it simply is because voters prefer him over the alternative. There's not too much involved in the process to be honest.

We vote for who we think will best represent our interests. If your interests are "I want a really nice guy as President, and I want him to not be afraid to drink on the weekends, like me," more power to you. You're focusing too much on my posts, and not so much on the post they responded to. Namely:
"If the democratic party can't elections, they're too incompetent to govern anyway"
Which I'm sure you don't agree with.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I like the idea of Dolphin and TheFightingFish going at it :lol :lol :lol

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

I'm probably blind, but I didn't see this in the last few pages:
New Evidence that Palin had Direct Role in Charging Rape Victims for Exams

leave Sarah alone you sexist pig!

 

[APF]

Okay, who are you going to vote for, then, if not McCain? Write-in Hillary?

I agree that's a good idea, and that in the current environment a Hillary-Obama ticket would be invincible, but alas I'll just phone in my vote for Senator Buttercups and Roses.

 

[GDJustin]

The Michelle/Barack sex tape would dispel undecided voters' belief that Obama is Elitist.

"Look, he tries to put it in his wife's pooper only for her to deny him, too! He's just like me! Getting straight missionary, once a week."

"That's a man I'd like to have a beer with. I'm voting Obama"

 

[JayDubya]

I agree that's a good idea, and that in the current environment a Hillary-Obama ticket would be invincible, but alas I'll just phone in my vote for Senator Buttercups and Roses.

Alas, I cannot write in for my preferred choice of Paul / Prime '08 in the state of Texas, so I'll have to settle for the elephant king.

Also, there's a Constitutionality issue for Mr. Prime, seeing as he's both fictional and not a resident of the planet Earth, let alone a United States citizen.

 

[Funky Papa]

Who dissented? The ones who the right-wing would force replacements to be like.

Scalia
Rehnquist
Thomas

Pack your FUCKING bags to Funky Town if you wanna spin this.

Hey, screw you buddy.

 

[AndresON777]

I like the idea of Dolphin and TheFightingFish going at it :lol :lol :lol

:lol

VS.

 

[bob_arctor]

In all seriousness, if this nonsense wins McCain the election, Obama never would have won anyway. America is what it is.

This is the most sobering line in the entire thread to be honest.

 

[thekad]

I wouldn't be overly shocked if people that aren't gay also use it if they decide they want to leave the military early as well.

Thekad - I haven't seen anything that suggested prior to his election Douglass supported Lincoln. After the fact he worked with him and supported him and influenced him.

...

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

And in the rest of that paragraph, I didn't see evidence that they would get enough. But I'll cross my fingers.

They need 400,000 in the whole state and could get 25% of that in one section of the state. And that's just starting in August.

 

[adamsappel]

New Obama ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ2I0t_Twk0

I'm not sure I like this...

Is this an Internet-only ad? I think it's pretty weaksauce, but then I don't really have a high opinion of these ads that are just trolls for free airtime anyway.

 

[saelz8]

Les Misbarack

 

[TheFightingFish]

:lol

VS.

I'll admit that the dolphin clearly has the size advantage. My best hope would be to try to stick in his craw before he swollowed me down totally.

 

[polyh3dron]

After the hilarious ABC's Plain interview...guess who's the next person to ask her some tough questions, Hannity. Interview on Tuesday.

Oh come the fuck on.

ENGLAND PREVAILS, amirite?

 

[Zeliard]

I'll admit that the dolphin clearly has the size advantage. My best hope would be to try to stick in his craw before he swollowed me down totally.

You're pretty demonic for a fish, though, what with being all fiery and red. Don't sell yourself short.

 

[Gaborn]

...

Ted Kennedy worked with Bush, that doesn't mean he's a fan of Bush or voted for him in 2000 or 2004.

 

[Dolphin]

Like I mentioned earlier with Obama's views on abortion I think both parties have wiggle room that they could use to pick up voters like me while still retaining their core. The example I picked earlier is that Obama softening his stance on abortion just a little (say no abortions after 24 weeks without a strong health issue from the mother) would pick up a fair number of people like me. While at the same time Obama would not lose any but the most hardcore or NARAL types as they still would greatly prefer him over McCain. In a close election (like this one will be) moves like this could make the difference for either candidate.

But by not voting, aren't you in fact not making your opinions known to the democratic and republican parties? Additionally, are you entirely unconcerned with other issues that may effect you and your family, like health care, taxes, the environment, and education?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh come the fuck on.

Yup. Back to friendly waters.

GIBSON: You have said continually, since he chose you as his vice-presidential nominee, that I said to Congress, thanks but not thanks. If we're going to build that bridge, we'll build it ourselves.

PALIN: Right.

GIBSON: But it's now pretty clearly documented. You supported that bridge before you opposed it. You were wearing a t-shirt in the 2006 campaign, showed your support for the bridge to nowhere.

PALIN: I was wearing a t-shirt with the zip code of the community that was asking for that bridge. Not all the people in that community even were asking for a $400 million or $300 million bridge.

GIBSON: But you turned against it after Congress had basically pulled the plug on it; after it became apparent that the state was going to have to pay for it, not the Congress; and after it became a national embarrassment to the state of Alaska. So do you want to revise and extend your remarks.

PALIN: It has always been an embarrassment that abuse of the ear form -- earmark process has been accepted in Congress. And that's what John McCain has fought. And that's what I joined him in fighting. It's been an embarrassment, not just Alaska's projects. But McCain gives example after example after example. I mean, every state has their embarrassment.

GIBSON: But you were for it before you were against it. You were solidly for it for quite some period of time...

PALIN: I was...

GIBSON: ... until Congress pulled the plug.

PALIN: I was for infrastructure being built in the state. And it's not inappropriate for a mayor or for a governor to request and to work with their Congress and their congressmen, their congresswomen, to plug into the federal budget along with every other state a share of the federal budget for infrastructure.

GIBSON: Right.

PALIN: What I supported was the link between a community and its airport. And we have found that link now.

I'm stunned. Gibson did well.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/216372.php

 

[The Lamonster]

I'd like to see her show up on O'Reilly. I trust him to ask her some tough questions.

(seriously)

 

[Tamanon]

Yup. Back to friendly waters.



I'm stunned. Gibson did well.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/216372.php

I honestly have no clue what she's saying there.:lol

It seems like she's saying that she didn't support the bridge to nowhere as much as she supported a connection to nowhere. It's almost existential.

 

[worldrunover]

I'd like to see her show up on O'Reilly. I trust him to ask her some tough questions.

(seriously)

I actually agree with you. What I'd really love to see is her go one with Matthews, but that won't happen.

 

[laserbeam]

Is this an Internet-only ad? I think it's pretty weaksauce, but then I don't really have a high opinion of these ads that are just trolls for free airtime anyway.

Thats a new TV ad. Like I said the Obama Campaign made a big deal about starting today the adds would be sharp and attack. If thats the definition of Sharp and attack they are fucked.

"Oh noes he doesnt do email" will be the mocking response

 

[Zeliard]

I'd like to see her show up on O'Reilly. I trust him to ask her some tough questions.

(seriously)

To be fair, that's only because O'Reilly hates women.

 

[Tamanon]

Thats a new TV ad. Like I said the Obama Campaign made a big deal about starting today the adds woul dget sharp and attack. if thats the definition of Sharp and attack they are fucked.

"Oh noes he doesnt do email" will be the mocking response

Their other anti-lobbyist is much better.

 

[Gaborn]

To be fair, that's only because O'Reilly hates women.

Unless he's having phone sex with them.

 

[polyh3dron]

I'd like to see her show up on O'Reilly. I trust him to ask her some tough questions.

(seriously)

he may, but he wouldn't challenge her talking points.

She'd be treated with "deference".

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

I honestly have no clue what she's saying there.:lol

It seems like she's saying that she didn't support the bridge to nowhere as much as she supported a connection to nowhere. It's almost existential.

She supported the IDEA of a Bridge to Nowhere, NOT the actual bridge. It's pretty clear cut IMHO.

 

[The Lamonster]

To be fair, that's only because O'Reilly hates women.

but he also <3 Obama

 

[Blader]

Yup. Back to friendly waters.



I'm stunned. Gibson did well.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/216372.php

Okay, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. What's the problem? It sounds like she supported the bridge but then turned against it Congress told her that Alaskan taxpayers would have to fund it themselves. What's the problem?

 

[GhaleonEB]

She supported the IDEA of a Bridge to Nowhere, NOT the actual bridge. It's pretty clear cut IMHO.

Except, she's lying there too.

Okay, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. What's the problem? It sounds like she supported the bridge but then turned against it Congress told her that Alaskan taxpayers would have to fund it themselves. What's the problem?

She's been boasting for weeks that she didn't support it, and in fact was the one to kill it.

 

[reilo]

Oh my god. Mathews is fucking ON this week. He is eating every shit eating grin GOPer for dessert.

Someone youtube this. Paraphrasing this does it no justice.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Okay, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. What's the problem? It sounds like she supported the bridge but then turned against it Congress told her that Alaskan taxpayers would have to fund it themselves. What's the problem?

Uhh...McCain is anti-earmarks. She wanted a $250 million earmark.

Except, she's lying there too.

Twas sarcasm, my friend.

 

[Tamanon]

Okay, I'm going to plead ignorance on this. What's the problem? It sounds like she supported the bridge but then turned against it Congress told her that Alaskan taxpayers would have to fund it themselves. What's the problem?

She's been claiming that she didn't support the bridge period, it was wasteful. Not that she stopped supporting it when Congress turned on it. And then she still kept the federal moneey!

 

[thekad]

Ted Kennedy worked with Bush, that doesn't mean he's a fan of Bush or voted for him in 2000 or 2004.

Sigh. Never mind.

 

[AndresON777]

I honestly have no clue what she's saying there.:lol

It seems like she's saying that she didn't support the bridge to nowhere as much as she supported a connection to nowhere. It's almost existential.

What scares me the most is that there's a good chance Mccain will croak and I'd never thought I'd say this about any one, but she seems worse than Bush.

 

[Diablos]

What hysterical drivel.

Yes and no. I agree, the posts in here saying Obama's finished are ridiculous and they are blowing the commentary from electoral-vote.com out of proportion. It was quite a simple statement:

If Obama wins, this is just a time where he took a hit in the polls but gained strength later on.

If he loses, this marks the beginning of his polling starting to go south and never fully recovering. But we don't know if he's going to recover or not, and it is premature to suggest that this literally is game over for Obama. Ridiculous. Grow a pair, people. I'm concerned too... I'd be lying to you if I said I wasn't, but I'm not about to take my ball and go home because a bunch of poll of polls sites are still reflecting a convention bounce. The polls aren't really even that accurate right now. Numbers are shifting around while the trend is still reflecting the end of a Republican convention bounce. Everything's all fucked up right now.

 

[mckmas8808]

It gets well better.

This makes me feel even better.