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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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G

GhaleonEB

Member
Clevinger said:
I don't know, it seems like a pretty innocent mistake for both democrats and the school to get pissy about.
Click to expand...
The school didn't want it to be mistaken as an endorsement, and is unhappy with all the sudden attention. It's worth clarifying their position in a brief written statement.

The press conference the dems are holding is just plain silly, though. And probably equally unwelcome.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Clevinger said:
I don't know, it seems like a pretty innocent mistake for both democrats and the school to get pissy about.
Click to expand...
Democrats, as do most humans, get pissy when accused of infanticide.

The DNC rarely went dirty. Hell, the dirtiest speech was by the freaking Kooch.

Meanwhile, in RNC land, we saw three consecutive speeches in one night bashing and blasting Obama. Even going so far as to say he's responsible for the deaths of infants.

Obama wants to run a clean campaign and get away from the partisan bullshit plaguing politics today, but the Reps aren't making it easy being in constant smear mode.
 
M

MassiveAttack

Banned
lb_e1_tarmac0904+Z.jpg


"No worries, son. Nam has a dozen little McCains..."
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
Instead of fixing the problem of low wages and ridiculous housing prices, we should just take more tax dollars and trow them at the problem.
Click to expand...

I look at it from another angle. You have nations around the world, in particular, Asian countries, where education has been and is far ahead of the US because they start early. This is as much about keeping our place in the hierarchy of a knowledge based global economy as it is about making it possible for two-wage families to make ends meet. I came to the US from Taiwan when I was four. While kids were still learning numbers, I already knew how to recite odd and even numbers. I already knew my 1 digit times table. I already knew WAY more than my peers (and only lacked in my knowledge of the English language). The fact of the matter is that the world will pass us by in terms of knowledge and education if we don't reverse a trend of indifference and rising costs for higher education.

In turn, we're braking up the family unit which will lead to worse problems down the line. Voluntary is great, but when more people take this option, more families will have both parents working, and housing will keep going up making this option necessary for even more people.
Click to expand...

So what's the solution then? There is no way you can increase one person's salary or decrease the cost of living to such a degree that you can make up for the loss of wages from a two earner family. Like I said, this may be a regional thing. In NJ? The costs of living are sky-fucking-high. In Alabama? Maybe the cost of living is more reasonable and a single wage family unit can work.

BTW, my income is in that range, and I decided to live in a less desirable area than I would have like to be able to make ends meet. It's very possible to find an affordable home and not resort to interest only loans if you actually try.
Click to expand...

We'll see if you'll want to stay in that area once you have kids. It's one thing to live in a less than desirable area if you don't have kids and a family; it's a different story when you do have kids and a family. My (single) mother moved us to the best districts that she could afford to live in.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
StopMakingSense said:
edit: ugh, I fail at reading. I thought you were talking about lenders.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about mortgage backed securities? If the lender defaults and interest rates reset, this creates a risk, but as long as the housing market rises, then the risk is small. So my question is, when the housing market was on the rise during the 90s, the risk was small, right? When the housing market crashed happened, interest rates was on the rise, having the borrowers default.

I don't know. I'm interesting in this kind of stuff, but it seems weird when people are blaming Clinton and Bush for the housing market crash.

EDIT-Fuuuuuuuudge. :lol
 
D

devilhawk

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I agree that's also detail-free, but to be fair, you can at least parse some policy positions there. Obama will:

--Invest more money in early childhood development
--Increase pay for teachers
--Provide financial aid to college students in exchange for service

The details behind those proposals were not discussed in his speech, but at least there are proposals there.

I ask again: what was McCain proposing? School vouchers? (That's my only guess.)
Click to expand...
Again, the details are there. Just like for Obama, not in the speeches. What's sad is this means that you guys have never even taken a look at all the platforms for both candidates. Too many people vote with their heart and gut, not with their head. It everybody did this on both sides, people would be much more informed and better off.

Higher Ed
Education
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
The Blue Jihad said:
Mute it if you need to. Just pay close attention to her right finger.

Reading with the index finger is an elementary school bad habit. She's not ready for anything at all.
Click to expand...

If this is how the left is going to attack her her favorable numbers will just keep rising.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
devilhawk said:
Dude, you need a reality check. Acceptance speeches are never specific. They aren't like the State of the Union address. The mention policies, yes, but it is still mostly about the platform and the direction. Acceptance speeches have never really been oratory versions of legislative bills. Now, after reading McCain's idea of education reform, read from Obama's speech. Obviously you won't agree on how McCain is approaching it, but nonetheless.

Obama was just as vague. Now, before you say Obama has given specifics at other times, we are still comparing the speeches alone.
Click to expand...

I need a reality check? I'm getting tired of this crap.

Listen, I understand acceptance speeches are full of vague rhetoric. The problem is that McCain has never once mentioned anything about education before, and all of a sudden it is "the civil rights issue of our era" (which, by the way, is a total slap in the face to the civil rights movement.) There literally are no specifics to the things he said. Not anywhere.

At least Obama refers to actual plans and policies. McCain just says random shit depending what day it is and who he's speaking to.
 
V

ViperVisor

Member
Jews for Jesus, that video is painful to watch.

6:30 of her speaking.

How much of it was looking down at the papers?

No offense to her. She really should not be in this situation. WTF McCain WTF.
 
S

Son of Godzilla

Banned
ChrisGoldstein said:
And the Republicans have church leaders in their pockets.
Click to expand...
Oh hey, that reminds me. I actually walked out of mass this past Sunday because the sermon was a complete misinterpretation of the reading solely to politicize it. I know going into detail is probably wasted on GAF, but it was the "Get behind me, Satan" reading. Basically Jesus tells everyone about the cross and all that and Peter begs him not to. So Jesus says the line. It's generally interpreted as underlining Peter's weakness or the temptation of humanity in doing the Lord's work. Instead, there's this wonderful "Would Jesus call you Satan if he was standing beside you when you vote" sermon.

I've never been so disgusted. There was even a Nazis gassing Jews reference.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Cooter said:
If this is how the left is going to attack her her favorable numbers will just keep rising.
Click to expand...
Yes, because message boards are indicative of the level of discourse coming from the Left.

Just like chain emails are indicative of the thoughts of the Right. Bad example.
 
A

AndresON777

shooting blanks
Son of Godzilla said:
Oh hey, that reminds me. I actually walked out of mass this past Sunday because the sermon was a complete misinterpretation of the reading solely to politicize it. I know going into detail is probably wasted on GAF, but it was the "Get behind me, Satan" reading. Basically Jesus tells everyone about the cross and all that and Peter begs him not to. So Jesus says the line. It's generally interpreted as underlining Peter's weakness or the temptation of humanity in doing the Lord's work. Instead, there's this wonderful "Would Jesus call you Satan if he was standing beside you when you vote" sermon.

I've never been so disgusted. There was even a Nazis gassing Jews reference.
Click to expand...

Bro I stopped going because of this kind of shit back during Bush/Kerry

It's even worse cuz I live in North Atlanta
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
devilhawk said:
Again, the details are there. Just like for Obama, not in the speeches. What's sad is this means that you guys have never even taken a look at all the platforms for both candidates. Too many people vote with their heart and gut, not with their head. It everybody did this on both sides, people would be much more informed and better off.

Higher Ed
Education
Click to expand...

McCain's Higher Ed Plan said:
Improve Information for Parents
Institutions report on hundreds of factors to the U.S. government every year, but the government does nothing with the information. Making this information available to families in a clear and concise manner will help more students make more informed choices about higher education.

Simplify Higher Education Tax Benefits
The existing tax benefits are too complicated, and many eligible families don’t claim them. By simplifying the existing benefits, I can ensure that a greater number of families have a lower tax burden when they are helping to send their children to college.

Simplify Federal Financial Aid
Too many programs and a complicated application process deter many eligible students from seeking student aid. The number of programs also makes it more difficult for financial aid officers to help students navigate the process. Consolidating programs will help simplify the administration of these programs, and help more students have a better understanding of their eligibility for aid.

Improve Research by Eliminating Earmarks
Earmarking is destroying the integrity of federally funded research. Billions of dollars are spent on pork barrel projects every year; significant amounts come from research budgets. Eliminating earmarks would immediately and significantly improve the federal government’s support for university research.

Fix the Student Lending Programs
We have seen significant turmoil in student lending. John McCain has proposed an expansion of the lender-of-last resort capability of the federal student loan system and will demand the highest standard of integrity for participating private lenders. Effective reforms and leveraging the private sector will ensure the necessary funding of higher education aspirations, and create a simpler and more effective program in the process.
Click to expand...

Oh, cool... except I have no idea what he is proposing. I am a current college student that has went through all of that and is still going through all of that, and what he talks about might be a problem, but I got no idea because he doesn't state what is SPECIFICALLY wrong with any of those programs he wants to fix.

Worst of all, he gives a blanket statement saying all of those things are wrong, and how does he plan to fix those problems? BY FIXING THEM.

What does "fixing entail"? Is he going to invest more money into it? Which programs is he going to consolidate? HOW is he going to simplify it?

Same bullshit, different words.

Okay, fuck this:

John McCain Will Build On The Lessons Of No Child Left Behind (NCLB). There should be an emphasis on standards and accountability. However, our goal cannot be group averages. Instead, our focus should be to inspire every child to strive to reach his or her potential. While NCLB has been invaluable in providing a clear picture of which schools and students are struggling, it is only the beginning of education reform.
Click to expand...

NCLB is part of the problem, and he wants to continue it, and even expand it.
 
D

devilhawk

Member
CharlieDigital said:
We'll see if you'll want to stay in that area once you have kids. It's one thing to live in a less than desirable area if you don't have kids and a family; it's a different story when you do have kids and a family. My (single) mother moved us to the best districts that she could afford to live in.
Click to expand...
I live in a suburb of KC and I see this often. People have mortgaged houses way out of their means. The outside is nice but the insides of the house are near barren because they can't afford to furnish them. No politician is going to fix people living well above their means. Lenders were all to kind to give money to people who shouldn't get it and now many are facing the consequences.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Thunder Monkey said:
Yes, because message boards are indicative of the level of discourse coming from the Left.

Just like chain emails are indicative of the thoughts of the Right. Bad example.
Click to expand...

Did you miss the key word in my statement? I said IF.
 
K

Karma

Banned
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Karma said:
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

Depends how important the issues are to you. I'd say flip a coin based on what you said.
 
M

minus_273

Banned
The Blue Jihad said:
Mute it if you need to. Just pay close attention to her right finger.

Reading with the index finger is an elementary school bad habit. She's not ready for anything at all.
Click to expand...

keep telling yourself that. I seem to recall a lot of people underestimated reagan and bush too. It seems liberals think anyone who doesnt agree with them is stupid and thats probably their Achilles heel.

in other news, mccain beat obama in ratings while airing on fewer networks.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/...s-than-obamas-while-airing-on-fewer-networks/
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
Karma said:
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

Both candidates wants to eliminate the deficit. McCain would probably push for a stronger military. No way creationism will ever be taught in schools, no matter who's president. Against abortion? Could you go into a little more detail? Both candidates wants to be energy independent. McCain wants to drill. Obama would compromise to drill while working on alternative energy. Both candidates oppose gay marriage, but Obama is for civil unions.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Karma said:
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...

With a few nuances (tepidly for drilling, partnerships vs marriage), that's essentially obama's platform.

EDIT: Oh, I misread you on abortion. Sorry!
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
Karma said:
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...
Nadar.
 
D

devilhawk

Member
Frank the Great said:
I need a reality check? I'm getting tired of this crap.

Listen, I understand acceptance speeches are full of vague rhetoric. The problem is that McCain has never once mentioned anything about education before, and all of a sudden it is "the civil rights issue of our era" (which, by the way, is a total slap in the face to the civil rights movement.) There literally are no specifics to the things he said. Not anywhere.

At least Obama refers to actual plans and policies. McCain just says random shit depending what day it is and who he's speaking to.
Click to expand...
Sigh... You are changing the game mid inning here. The only point I was trying to make was that McCain's speech was just as specific as Obama's. That's it.

As far as your slap in the face. I am not going to touch that. Seems like you have your deeply entrenched opinions. You seemingly are in this thread to scream and to tell everyone how angry you are. That's fine.
 
M

minus_273

Banned
Karma said:
Need help gaf. Which candidate would best represent my beliefs?

I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. I am against abortion. We need to be energy independent. I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels. I am for Gay marriage.

I understand one candidate could never meet all my beliefs but still like to know where they stand on these issues. Be gentle. I am trying to educate myself on this.
Click to expand...


I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. ==>mcain
I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. ==> mccain
I am against abortion. => mccain
We need to be energy independent. =>> mccain
I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels.=>mccain

I am for Gay marriage. => neither


you decide

Edit: oddly, obama doesnt support gay marraige.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
minus_273 said:
I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. ==>mcain but keep spending 10 bil a month in iraq
I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. ==> mccain but picked a running mate who does
I am against abortion. => mccain
We need to be energy independent. =>> mccain but my voting record runs completely contrary to this
I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels.=>mccain well, drilling at least

I am for Gay marriage. => obama


you decide
Click to expand...
:lol :lol :lol

What a joke.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
CharlieDigital said:
I look at it from another angle. You have nations around the world, in particular, Asian countries, where education has been and is far ahead of the US because they start early. This is as much about keeping our place in the hierarchy of a knowledge based global economy as it is about making it possible for two-wage families to make ends meet. I came to the US from Taiwan when I was four. While kids were still learning numbers, I already knew how to recite odd and even numbers. I already knew my 1 digit times table. I already knew WAY more than my peers (and only lacked in my knowledge of the English language). The fact of the matter is that the world will pass us by in terms of knowledge and education if we don't reverse a trend of indifference and rising costs for higher education.
Click to expand...

This is hard to argue. I just feel that a fun childhood is more important that being the smartest person in the room.

So what's the solution then? There is no way you can increase one person's salary or decrease the cost of living to such a degree that you can make up for the loss of wages from a two earner family. Like I said, this may be a regional thing. In NJ? The costs of living are sky-fucking-high. In Alabama? Maybe the cost of living is more reasonable and a single wage family unit can work.
Click to expand...
Sure you can. Privatize SS so my employer and I don't have to give away money that won't make a dent when I retire. Lower taxes in general. Separate medical insurance from employers and group discount shit and let it truly sink or swim in the free market. Teach people responsibility. I'm in PA, not Alabama.

We'll see if you'll want to stay in that area once you have kids. It's one thing to live in a less than desirable area if you don't have kids and a family; it's a different story when you do have kids and a family. My (single) mother moved us to the best districts that she could afford to live in.
Click to expand...

I do have one kid now, and another on the way. We'll both get jobs to move to a better district once they're in school. Right now I actually feel good about raising them in a less desirable area, I feel that I'm contributing to making it a better neighborhood, and not just heading out to the burbs and contributing to the flight and rotting of our urban areas.

And look at that, your mother could do it, why can't people today do it without government aid?
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
minus_273 said:
I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. ==>mcain
I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. ==> mccain
I am against abortion. => mccain
We need to be energy independent. =>> mccain
I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels.=>mccain

I am for Gay marriage. => obama


you decide
Click to expand...

The hell?
 
D

Door2Dawn

Banned
minus_273 said:
I believe we need to eliminate the deficit but maintain the very strong military. ==>mcain
I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. ==> mccain
I am against abortion. => mccain
We need to be energy independent. =>> mccain
I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels.=>mccain

I am for Gay marriage. => obama


you decide
Click to expand...
Listen do this guy,he isn't biased at all.
 
T

Thunder Monkey

Banned
Cooter said:
Did you miss the key word in my statement? I said IF.
Click to expand...
Gah, don't get pissy.

If I wanted to offend you I'd have mentioned something about your grandmother and streetcorners.

:D

This thread is a game to you guys right? I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. Any of your really... unless it affirms my belief and then I read what you type.

Otherwise, I don't much care. I think most facets of Republican ideology are not only wrong, but harmful to society on the whole. Current Republican ideals most definitely.

Some of your ilk break the mold and I actually listen, but for the most part if you're voting along the Republican line I separate you into two groups.

  1. The uninformed.
  2. The plain stupid.

Sorry man. I'll try to get a rise out of you, and play around a bit, but for the most part I don't care, because I can't for the life of me respect your political leanings.

At least I'm honest hey?
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
devilhawk said:
Sigh... You are changing the game mid inning here. The only point I was trying to make was that McCain's speech was just as specific as Obama's. That's it.

As far as your slap in the face. I am not going to touch that. Seems like you have your deeply entrenched opinions. You seemingly are in this thread to scream and to tell everyone how angry you are. That's fine.
Click to expand...

I am not involved in the civil rights movement at all and am not personally offended. But I can still see that blacks, women, and gays (none of which I am) are still fighting for equal treatment and it's an insult to them to call something like education the greatest civil rights issue of our time.

I'm not screaming and yelling at anyone. You're the one who insulted me by saying I need a reality check and that I am only hear to yell and scream and be angry. I never said anything against you or about you personally, so please treat me the same.

And it seems we agree on the original point anyway, so whatever.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
minus_273 said:
I believe that creationism should never be in our schools. ==> mccain
Click to expand...

McCain is the ticket that wants creationism taught in schools, not Obama so wtf?

minus_273 said:
We need to be energy independent. =>> mccain
Click to expand...
Obama has said many times we need to be energy independent

minus_273 said:
I am for drilling but we need to also work on alternative fuels.=>mccain
Click to expand...
Obama said he'd accept offshore drilling if it part of a wider bill of alternative energy.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
devilhawk said:
Again, the details are there. Just like for Obama, not in the speeches. What's sad is this means that you guys have never even taken a look at all the platforms for both candidates. Too many people vote with their heart and gut, not with their head. It everybody did this on both sides, people would be much more informed and better off.
Click to expand...
I'm aware of the detail behind it. The point was, there were multiple policy positions in Obama's education segment. I'm just using the same standard you yourself applied a few posts ago.

devilhawk said:
Now, before you say Obama has given specifics at other times, we are still comparing the speeches alone.
Click to expand...
So don't pull out the details from behind his speech as a way of explaining the lack of actual policy in it.

They both said they would improve education, but Obama talked about HOW he would get to that end point; McCain did not. When Obama says improve education, he then talks about increasing funding for childhood education, providing college aid in exchange for service and increasing teacher pay (and then something vague about standards). McCain talks about giving choice, but never say HOW that choice will be manifest in policy. (And then says something vague about standards, natch.) There is a distinction here, and it's one that ran through their speeches on other topics as well.

The whole thing is kind of silly anyways since we're confining the scope of the discussion to the speeches alone. But expand that to the detailed policy positions, and I think Obama's are more pragmatic.
 
K

Karma

Banned
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Both candidates wants to eliminate the deficit. McCain would probably push for a stronger military. No way creationism will ever be taught in schools, no matter who's president. Against abortion? Could you go into a little more detail? Both candidates wants to be energy independent. McCain wants to drill. Obama would compromise to drill while working on alternative energy. Both candidates oppose gay marriage, but Obama is for civil unions.
Click to expand...

I am against abortion but no reason to debate that here. It really is not a big point in my decision as I do not think either one could or would overturn it.
 
C

Cooter

Lacks the power of instantaneous movement
Thunder Monkey said:
Gah, don't get pissy.

If I wanted to offend you I'd have mentioned something about your grandmother and streetcorners.



This thread is a game to you guys right? I don't give a flying fuck what you believe. Any of your really... unless it affirms my belief and then I read what you type.

Otherwise, I don't much care. I think most facets of Republican ideology are not only wrong, but harmful to society on the whole. Current Republican ideals most definitely.

Some of your ilk break the mold and I actually listen, but for the most part if you're voting along the Republican line I separate you into two groups.

1. The uninformed.
2. The plain stupid.

Sorry man. I'll try to get a rise out of you, and play around a bit, but for the most part I don't care, because I can't for the life of me respect your political leanings.

At least I'm honest hey?
Click to expand...

You wrote an awful lot for someone who, "for the most part doesn't care."

I respect you opinion.
 
M

minus_273

Banned
Cheebs said:
McCain is the ticket that wants creationism taught in schools, not Obama so wtf?


Obama has said many times we need to be energy independent


Obama said he'd accept offshore drilling if it part of a wider bill of alternative energy.
Click to expand...


mccain has never endorsed creationism. Obama changed his position on drilling?
 
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