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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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M

MightyHedgehog

Member
AndyIsTheMoney said:
-Not getting Obama was a huge mistake and/or failure, im not denying that. But we were also there to topple the Taliban government no? Which we have done. Look building a new government or a democracy is no easy task. Epically in these parts of the world with little infrastructure, and having been under authoritative regimes for most of their history. I don't think anyone can argue that trying to take on two at once was more than we could chew. I agreed with Afghanistan, and not with Iraq. But now that we are there im not going to write it off as a huge failure. trying every option before us to be successful is in the best interest of both sides. Again, you don't have to agree with the war to hope that it works out, because you are afraid to give people credit.
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ORLY

There you go with the Muslim thing again...
 
T

teruterubozu

Member
Schlep said:
The ad has to be what it is. During the primaries, Obama was the sensation that was covered all the time. The softball ad about old McCain unable to use the internet went nowhere; Ike was more interesting, Palin was more interesting. This kind of ad will bring the focus back to Obama and goad the media into taking a harder stance towards McCain (I hope).

Also has anyone noticed that the press releases from the Obama campaign are now including harsh quotes from Biden? I'm guessing this is an effort to put more eyes on his stump speeches.
Click to expand...

Obama's still on the ropes and has been taking a reactionary stance since the Palin pick. It's far from rope-a-hope at this point. Americans want strength in the presidency, a backbone. He needs to put a strong foot forward in the final stretch.
 
A

AndyIsTheMoran

Banned
MightyHedgehog said:
ORLY

There you go with the Muslim thing again...
Click to expand...

new McCain ad

"John McCain...because Obama is only one letter away from Osama."

come on is McCain had said something like my homosexual principles instead of heterosexual it would have been post worthy. I know Obama isn't a Muslim, god, some of you people in here love to label and judge
 
S

Schlep

Member
Well I like to see them fighting back now, and actively going after McCain as dishonest, out of touch, and elitest. I think they're starting to form their message heading into the debates, and hoping for both Obama and Biden to knock it out of the park. Given that McCain isn't very good at debates, and Palin has insight into Russia because she can see it from Alaska, I'm liking those odds.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
teruterubozu said:
Obama's still on the ropes and has been taking a reactionary stance since the Palin pick. It's far from rope-a-hope at this point. Americans want strength in the presidency, a backbone. He needs to put a strong foot forward in the final stretch.
Click to expand...

It depends on how they frame this. If it's just crying about lying, it sucks. If they frame it as "This dude has nothing left to stand on but attack ads," I think that's a pretty strong foot forward.

We'll have to see.
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
New republican attack memes: Disrespectful, desperate, hysterical- oh, and ageism.

I find it amazing how quickly this party synchronizes its current talking points through all the surrogates.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
Schlep said:
The ad has to be what it is. During the primaries, Obama was the sensation that was covered all the time. The softball ad about old McCain unable to use the internet went nowhere; Ike was more interesting, Palin was more interesting. This kind of ad will bring the focus back to Obama and goad the media into taking a harder stance towards McCain (I hope).

Also has anyone noticed that the press releases from the Obama campaign are now including harsh quotes from Biden? I'm guessing this is an effort to put more eyes on his stump speeches.
Click to expand...
During the primaries people were speculating whether the Wright controversy would be the end of his candidacy. Seeing that the issue was becoming all encompassing he used it as a lever to refocus on something more substantive. That was smart, much smarter than the kneejerk reactions as of late. The Obama campaign doesn't have to goad the media into being critical of the dishonesty coming from the McCain campaign. They are overplaying their hand and the media is jumping on it regardless of what Obama says, and pounding it home in commercials and press releases just looks opportunistic and runs contrary to the "no distractions" philosophy. Trying to out-outrage the McCain campaign is a stupid tactic. You can't beat Rove style tactics by emulating them, especially if you're simultaneously pulling punches because you can't and won't stoop as low. It's much better to let them descend into self parody and every time come back twice as hard on something that's actually relevant to leading the country.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
HocusPocus said:
It's actually good to be a republican again. We might even have a shot at congress. :D
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Oh god, these past 8 years seem to have permanetly damaged HocusPocus' mind. Don't worry buddy, our prays are with you
 
S

Schlep

Member
GrotesqueBeauty: I would agree with you, except the media wants to cover Palin 24/7 right now, because that's what the people want. When the Obama camp was taking the high road and not hitting back, look at what happened. Interest in Palin grew, Obama got called sexist and all the lipstick bs, and Biden disappeared.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I think in a normal campaign, what Obama did with the Wright fiasco would work. This is a strange election though that's running more like American Idol than an election, and whoever can be the most outlandish gets the coverage.
 
B

Barrett2

Member
Well, three of the top 5 investment banks in America are now completely wiped out. Lets see how popular the 'hockey mom' is now that America's financial system is in free-fall.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
The media narrative was shifting in print over the weekend. With Tucker Bounds and other McCain campaign shills going off the deep end and essentially saying "yeah, we don't care about facts or the media. We just wanna win," this ad and the Biden speech can shift discussion to "Has the McCain campaign lost its bearings?" "Has the straight-talk express derailed?" etc etc.
 
G

GrapeApes

Member
They just showed the new Obama ad on Morning Joe. It's 30 seconds of quotes from news papers calling John McCain a liar and running the sleaziest campaign ever. Wonder is McSame will keep on rolling or actually change up.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
Schlep said:
GrotesqueBeauty: I would agree with you, except the media wants to cover Palin 24/7 right now, because that's what the people want. When the Obama camp was taking the high road and not hitting back, look at what happened. Interest in Palin grew, Obama got called sexist and all the lipstick bs, and Biden disappeared.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I think in a normal campaign, what Obama did with the Wright fiasco would work. This is a strange election thought that's running more like American Idol than an election, and whoever can be the most outlandish gets the coverage.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that they shouldn't hit back, it's that they need to hit back on a different level. I absolutely agree they need to be proactive and hit back, and much harder than they have been. But Obama will never gain the upper hand on the mudslinging between campaigns. You mentioned that he got called out on the lipstick statement, but didn't that ultimately turn in his favor? He needs to avoid getting mired too deeply in sleaze, even if it's just addressing what the other side is doing. The lipstick and sex education attacks have shown that if you give McCain enough rope he might just hang himself. What Obama can do on offense is force McCain into a corner by hammering the issues relentlessly. That's what I'm talking about with the more assertive edge and being tougher on the issues. Sure, address the endless smears, but only insofar as they can be used to turn the public eye towards actual problems and solutions. There is an endless goldmine to be had through a brutally honest assessment of policy issues, but I feel like Obama is too busy trying to hedge his bets right now, and losing ground because of it. He needs to come out spitting fire, keeping direct and to the point, and never responding to baseless attacks just for the sake of it, but rather as a way to redirect attention back to matters of substance.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
GrotesqueBeauty said:
I'm not saying that they shouldn't hit back, it's that they need to hit back on a different level. I absolutely agree they need to be proactive and hit back, and much harder than they have been. But Obama will never gain the upper hand on the mudslinging between campaigns. You mentioned that he got called out on the lipstick statement, but didn't that ultimately turn in his favor? He needs to avoid getting mired too deeply in sleaze, even if it's just addressing what the other side is doing. The lipstick and sex education attacks have shown that if you give McCain enough rope he might just hang himself. What Obama can do on offense is force McCain into a corner by hammering the issues relentlessly. That's what I'm talking about with the more assertive edge and being tougher on the issues. Sure, address the endless smears, but only insofar as they can be used to turn the public eye towards actual problems and solutions. There is an endless goldmine to be had through a brutally honest assessment of policy issues, but I feel like Obama is too busy trying to hedge his bets and losing ground because of it. He needs to come out spitting fire, keeping direct and to the point, and never responding to baseless attacks just for the sake of it, but rather as a way to redirect attention back to matters of substance.
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But that's how he's framing it. He's saying McCain's shit campaign is a direct symptom of his lack of substance on critical issues.

It sounds like it's exactly what you feel like he should be doing.
 
K

kevm3

Member
If staying on topic and focused on the issues was a winning strategy, Obama would be up by 20 points right now. He's doing what he needs to do. He's hitting McCain on his obvious lies. If Obama keeps his message a mixture of staying on the issues and tying his attacks into why isn't McCain talking about the issues. Just as long as Obama doesn't go overboard with the attacks, he's doing what he needs to.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
kevm3 said:
If staying on topic and focused on the issues was a winning strategy, Obama would be up by 20 points right now. He's doing what he needs to do. He's hitting McCain on his obvious lies. If Obama keeps his message a mixture of staying on the issues and tying his attacks into why isn't McCain talking about the issues. Just as long as Obama doesn't go overboard with the attacks, he's doing what he needs to.
Click to expand...

Over the weekend, I think he hit a pretty good balance. In no way does he give his attacks on McCain equal balance to the issues. He talks way more about the issues than he does McCain.
 
S

Schlep

Member
By the way, before I forget to mention it, I think the McCain camp is making a huge mistake by still keeping Palin under wraps. If they don't get her out there now and get people used to the fact that she's...kinda ignorant...she's really going to look like a 'hockey mom' in her debate with Biden. If they get people used to her, then there won't be this huge anticipation building up to the debate, and people will give her a pass since it won't be as much of a surprise to them.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
BenjaminBirdie said:
But that's how he's framing it. He's saying McCain's shit campaign is a direct symptom of his lack of substance on critical issues.

It sounds like it's exactly what you feel like he should be doing.
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I disagree that he's already doing it. I don't think there has been a sustained follow through, although I certainly hope that there will be because the GOP post convention bounce has been a wake up call. Saying McCain is avoiding issues is not enough. The issues need to be specifically stated over and over again in clear and unequivocal terms forcing a response, and the smears need to be addressed in a way that redirects attention and takes back control of the message. That is the missing component. Just saying "my opponent is avoiding the issues" isn't enough.

To me it almost seemed like Bill Clinton's speech during the convention was a tutorial for Obama. He was laying down the groundwork and basically saying "here it is, this is your line of attack", and Obama would be wise to pay heed imo.

edit: So much for keeping it short, lol. I really should go to bed. :lol
 
S

Schlep

Member
I kind of like them both. The official ad is short and to the point, tying McCain's lies to Bush's lies. The web ad doesn't say anything, just straight up throwing quotes that speak for themselves. I wish they both could be run.
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
Great ads. No distortion, just letting the media's much delayed calling out of McCain's horseshit campaigning bleed out there for anyone to see. Still, though, I hope there's a greater amount of Obama 'hope' ads to negative ones from the campaign itself. Let the independent groups act as a fair guard and parry.

Man, that web ad was fucking brutal with the somber theme swelling in the background. Ouch.

AndyIsTheMoney said:
new McCain ad

"John McCain...because Obama is only one letter away from Osama."
Click to expand...
Given how fast they've taken to going really low, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. I'm sure a right-leaning 527 had bulb light up over their heads just now.

I know Obama isn't a Muslim, god, some of you people in here love to label and judge
Click to expand...
Hey, I opened with a long discarded internet meme...you shouldn't have taken it so seriously. Besides, seeing the theme of your last thread, I thought it was a funny 'slip' to point out.
 
S

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
AniHawk said:
What are they saying about it?
Click to expand...

They loved it. Said it's what they've been saying all along. They mentioned the 527's have some really scathing scripts, but won't judge them on those until they air.

Then Pat asked for one flat out lie that McCain's perpetrated, and the Obama spokesman replied "Well how much time do we have?". Quite awesome.

Then they moved on to SNL.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
SnakeXs said:
They loved it. Said it's what they've been saying all along. They mentioned the 527's have some really scathing scripts, but won't judge them on those until they air.

Then Pat asked for one flat out lie that McCain's perpetrated, and the Obama spokesman replied "Well how much time do we have?". Quite awesome.

Then they moved on to SNL.
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Sounds pretty good all around. Did they mention the "grow a pair" comment from SNL?
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
McCain's camp is so foolish for shutting out the media and telling them how to cover them. You do that, you don't have close control over the message and you get bit.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
:lol

I love this. After harping for weeks on getting tough and fighting back, NOW they're saying because of these new Wall Street upheavals, they should focus on..

BUM
BUM
BUM
BUMMMMMM

THE ISSUES.
 
S

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
AniHawk said:
Sounds pretty good all around. Did they mention the "grow a pair" comment from SNL?
Click to expand...

Sadly not. They showed the 3 differences lines (I can see Alaska from my house, God huggin' us clooser, and the idunnowhatthatis mumble), and then just said how awesome Fey was and how Lorne Michaels has to invite her to lunch and then chain her to a radiator.

They also mentioned it was the highest ratings since their first show post 9-11, and their biggest premier in 6 years or something.

I think Chevy Chase is gonna be on soon/later to talk about it, though. Maybe they'll bring it up then.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Farmboy said:
You can see it here. Pretty good, though I preferred the sheer volume of quotes in the web ad.

EDIT: here are a few excerpts from Biden's speech today.
Click to expand...
Putting the "I approve this message" up front is awesome, as I completely forget that it happens when the ad is all said and done. Once the ad finished I was like "wtf...where's the" *rewinds* "Ah..."

Not sure if it's intentional or not, but it's like the ad wasn't even associated with Obama when it was over.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
RubxQub said:
Putting the "I approve this message" up front is awesome, as I completely forget that it happens when the ad is all said and done. Once the ad finished I was like "wtf...where's the" *rewinds* "Ah..."

Not sure if it's intentional or not, but it's like the ad wasn't even associated with Obama when it was over.
Click to expand...

All their attack ads are like this, iirc. It's the positive ones like "Change" where it comes at the end.

...Unlike John McCain's where even the attack ads are approved by him at the end.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
AniHawk said:
All their attack ads are like this, iirc. It's the positive ones like "Change" where it comes at the end.

...Unlike John McCain's where even the attack ads are approved by him at the end.
Click to expand...
John McCain's don't really transition too well either.

*cue daunting scary music*

"Barack Obama...what a piece of shit. This man wants to tax you like fuck. Obama has liberal buddies. EVIL LIBERAL BUDDIES! This man can't lead shit. Fuck him."

*cue happy cheery music*

"I'm John McCain, and I approve this message"
 
T

Tim-E

Member
I was wondering if that new ad was just a web ad or one for telelvision, so I go to YouTube and it says "on the air" in the description. :D They better be playing this shit in every swing state. They have like $70 million dollars on hand, so they can afford to. :p
 
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