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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts
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Xisiqomelir
Member
Gaborn said:
....but if they crash and burn, quickly prop them up with taxpayer dollars?
MightyHedgehog
Member
Corporate welfare, the Republican's only favored form of socialism.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Gaborn said:
Look, if Mr. CEO helps maintain a level of profitability then fine. Let him have his payday.
But FUCK taxpayer severance packages for the asshats at the very top of the turmoil.
polyh3dron
Banned
Fictional Sarah Palin conversation with an old Alaskan State Gov't colleague...
Sarah Palin said:
Public Safety Employee said:
lolololSarah Palin said:
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
My brother keeps arguing with me over this, so let me see if I got this right...
According to him, Obama will raise taxes (he constantly has amnesia in regards to me telling him about Obama only raising it for the 250,000+ earners) and increase government spending. This is apparently bad to him, since were in some serious debt as it is. No matter that we kind of need money from taxpayers to pay off this stuff in the first place.
Now Mccain, according to him, will cut taxes and government spending....my question is, where does Mccain get the money then? What's he gonna cut that we don't already need? How would this plan be effective in anyway?
According to him, Obama will raise taxes (he constantly has amnesia in regards to me telling him about Obama only raising it for the 250,000+ earners) and increase government spending. This is apparently bad to him, since were in some serious debt as it is. No matter that we kind of need money from taxpayers to pay off this stuff in the first place.
Now Mccain, according to him, will cut taxes and government spending....my question is, where does Mccain get the money then? What's he gonna cut that we don't already need? How would this plan be effective in anyway?
It's kinda hard to b pro-welfare and anti-corporate welfare, but good luck with that.MightyHedgehog said:
Gaborn, this youtube vid reminded me of you and others here and I don't know why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKWTUucQvw&eurl=http://reason.com/blog/show/128798.html
Xisiqomelir
Member
Gaborn said:
Where is an illiquid company going to scrounge up millions in golden parachute funds?
Gaborn, you don't think people's outrage over this is simply because of the executive compensation, do you? Blackstone's Schwarzman paid himself $400 million last year, literally hundreds of times more than the AIG and Lehman CEOs. But we're not talking about him, because he didn't fuck up.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Gaborn said:
So if Mr./Mrs. CEO of AIG walks off with $X millions from all this are ok with it? Knowing that we are now in on 80% of AIG means that the public has become majority shareholders, no?
So you down with rewarding this guy/gal?
Freedom = $1.05 said:
I'm ok with the CEO of AIG walking off with as much money as the shareholders gave him. I'm not ok with the government buying 80% of the company.
Xisiqomelir - As I said, private companies whether successful or not can behave as they wish, I don't own stock in those companies and I actually pay attention to what companies are doing so I don't condone that behavior.
Tell him that even if Obama tax policies are bad, any positive revenue McCain brings up will be washed away by wars, bankruptcies due to health concerns and a shaky economy discouraging investment aka little trickle down.SpeedingUptoStop said:
Obama policies aren't perfect, but McCain are just wrong. in every damn way, they are wrong.
artredis1980
Banned
polyh3dron
Banned
Dammit Chris Matthews, if you want someone crying out in outrage about all the shit the Bush administration has pulled, listen to your buddy Keith Olbermann. Barack Obama doesn't want to come off as the Angry Black Man stereotype.
artredis1980 said:
Deus Ex Machina
Member
Tony Todd!Funky Papa said:
Best shirt ever or bestest shirt ever?
Love the voice. It screams horror movies!
Gaborn said:
Shareholders didn't give him shit. If individual shareholders, rather than plans, agencies and brokers actually got to vote on this shit, golden parachutes would be regular silk. CEO compensation is an artifice borne of lethargy and ignorance on the part of shareholders - and collaboration from other corporate entities.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Gaborn said:
So would you be ok if the CEO, at this moment, was issued a many millions of dollars? I'm assuming that you don't care how much CEOs receive if the company isn't being propped up by the US government. But what about now?
polyh3dron
Banned
Fuck now I have to get an iPhone.. I can't support John McCain's invention.
Demigod Mac
Member
SpeedingUptoStop said:
Show him this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html
The Tax Policy Center is a nonpartisan organization and is highly regarded in finance, so he can't scream "LIBRUL MEDIA BIAS" for this one.
He'll get a bigger tax cut from Obama unless he makes a quarter of a million dollars a year.
OuterWorldVoice said:
Same principle really, shareholders control a stake in the company. If they don't like what the company is doing they're free to sell their stock and get rid of the risk. If they choose not to then they're essentially endorsing it. Kind of like with sports teams. Coming from Michigan I'm a fan of all of our sports teams, including the Lions. However, as long as Millen is the GM I refuse to go to Lions games or give the team my money.
Freedom - It's not my company, why should I care what some other business does? Would you care if Bill Gates randomly walked up to a person on the street and gave them a million dollars? And again, I opposed the company being bailed out by the government, the government should immediately sell it's shares.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
polyh3dron said:
If it makes you feel any better it's compatible with Al Gore's Internet.
So you'd be ok with AIG being left to collapse, and with it basically the entire world market?Gaborn said:
I love how suddenly there are no Republicans, just Libertarians, and how strongly they cling to the "no regulation!" myth when we're now looking at a SECOND depression in a hundred year period caused by laissez faire economic policies.
I still contend that this is a very historically predictable election. Bush 43 is obviously the second coming of Warren G. Harding, Tea Pot Dome levels of scandal and all. I used to think McCain was a Coolidge, someone who would muddle through and just make people feel good because he isn't as bad as the previous dope. Now I'm beginning to think he's more a Hoover type though, with just how shitty his economic concepts really are.
Obama is, to me, the second coming of FDR (minus the Japanese-American concentration camps). He proposes a "New Deal" for the American people, massive infrastructure overhauls, and the appropriate checks and balances on our financial sectors to keep the average American safe.
I just hope we don't need two more failed presidents to follow GWB before we finally elect FDR like Americans did last time.
polyh3dron
Banned
McCain invented the blackBerry, you didn't know?Shiggie said:
AIG cant collapse.
Lehman shoudlnt have been allowed to collapse.
I dont like the idea of nationalizing AIG though. I mean, holy shit. Thats gigantic, but who can take them over? They are too big.
Just fucking divide them up or something.
Fuck me if AIG goes under we are so fucked it could take us 10 years to get out of this.
Lehman shoudlnt have been allowed to collapse.
I dont like the idea of nationalizing AIG though. I mean, holy shit. Thats gigantic, but who can take them over? They are too big.
Just fucking divide them up or something.
Fuck me if AIG goes under we are so fucked it could take us 10 years to get out of this.
Drek said:
Yes. This current crisis is further proof the federal reserve system is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable. Economies don't respond well to creating a series of bubbles in different sectors of the economy. Eventually the economy seeks an equilibrium and that's what we see here.
speculawyer
Member
But here is the problem. US Corporations are de facto Soviet style Politburos. There are shareholders and the shareholders elect the board . . . but the honest truth is that the only people elected to the boards are the executives and the executives cronies. Corporate elections are generally just a huge joke. There is little to no accountability within them so the execs tend to abuse them.Gaborn said:
Gaborn said:
You're missing the point - without regulation, this kind of ignorance and apathy is institutionalized and desirable to corporations. Expecting the consumer to understand what a financial product contains is like expecting a car driver to understand how his camshaft is engineered.
OuterWorldVoice said:
You're missing the point actually. With regulation and the safety net of the government willing to bail out a company and with the federal reserve injecting large amounts of cash into the economy devaluing the dollar for decades there is an increasing endorsement of risk taking by the government. What needs to happen is the companies that take risks be forced to actually feel the consequences of them so in the future more responsible companies don't make the same mistakes.
Ronito - that's actually why I believe these companies shouldn't be bailed out as well. As I said, businesses need to learn that risk taking is actually RISKY and has consequences. Perhaps the next round of companies will be more responsible and risk averse.
speculawyer
Member
Well who gives a fuck about the shareholders . . . AIG is an insurance company . . . what happens to all those policy holders?Gaborn said:
The point you and other libertarians never seem to understand is that this is a market upon which most other markets rest upon. When Disney Corp. fails, we won't get Mickey Mouse anymore, but when a bank or other financial institution fails, other things fall with it.
XxenobladerxX
Member
"I want my FUCKING money!!!"
I just got forwarded that Palin chain e-mail, the one that has all those comic strips with her bringing the Republicans back from the dead.
It bothers me that the person sending it to me would think I'd enjoy all those pro-Palin cartoons.
Can we put together our own Palin e-mail?! You too may find the pro-Palin e-mail in your inbox one day. We need to fire back!
It bothers me that the person sending it to me would think I'd enjoy all those pro-Palin cartoons.
Can we put together our own Palin e-mail?! You too may find the pro-Palin e-mail in your inbox one day. We need to fire back!
speculawyer
Member
Well . . . the voting power should be proportional to ownership. However, you bring up another huge issue. Organization. It is nearly impossible for shareholders to organize at all since they don't know who each other are. And that is the way the corporation executives like it. It prevents the shareholders from becoming 'uppity'.Hitokage said:
ViperVisor
Member
Maher on Maddow.
Weee!
Weee!
speculawyer
Member
Yeah . . . as if Joe Sixpack has the information, skills, or even the time to figure that out.Gaborn said:
GOP group behind negative Obama poll targeting Jewish community
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13516.html
A Republican group is taking responsibility for a poll that has roiled the Jewish community by asking sharply negative questions about Senator Barack Obama.
The Republican Jewish Coalition, which is launching a campaign against Obama on behalf of Senator John McCain, sponsored the poll to "understand why Barack Obama continues to have a problem among Jewish voters," the group's executive director, Matt Brooks, told Politico.
The poll asked voters their response to negative statements about Obama, including reported praise for him from a leader of the Palestinian terror group Hamas and a friendship early in his career with a pro-Palestinian university professor. Some Jewish Democrats who received the poll including a New Republic writer who lives in Michigan were outraged by the poll, describing it in interviews as "ugly" and disturbing. A group that supports Obama, the Jewish Council for Education and Research http://www.jewsvote.org even staged a protest outside the Manhattan call center from which the calls originated Tuesday.
"If the RJC is responsible for these calls, which are designed to frighten Jews and sow mistrust, they have forfeited their place at the Jewish table," said the co-executive director of the group, Mik Moore. "It is incumbent upon the McCain campaign to speak out forcefully against this and ongoing efforts by his supporters to scare Jews into supporting his candidacy."
Brooks, however, denied that the poll was meant to influence Jewish voters, and said it was a traditional poll meant to gauge the opinions of Jewish voters.
"What we did is test, in standard polling methodology, a number of factual issues that have been reported on in the press and are policy positions to see how they're resonating in the Jewish community," said Brooks. "The notion that this is a 'push poll' is offensive to us."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13516.html
A Republican group is taking responsibility for a poll that has roiled the Jewish community by asking sharply negative questions about Senator Barack Obama.
The Republican Jewish Coalition, which is launching a campaign against Obama on behalf of Senator John McCain, sponsored the poll to "understand why Barack Obama continues to have a problem among Jewish voters," the group's executive director, Matt Brooks, told Politico.
The poll asked voters their response to negative statements about Obama, including reported praise for him from a leader of the Palestinian terror group Hamas and a friendship early in his career with a pro-Palestinian university professor. Some Jewish Democrats who received the poll including a New Republic writer who lives in Michigan were outraged by the poll, describing it in interviews as "ugly" and disturbing. A group that supports Obama, the Jewish Council for Education and Research http://www.jewsvote.org even staged a protest outside the Manhattan call center from which the calls originated Tuesday.
"If the RJC is responsible for these calls, which are designed to frighten Jews and sow mistrust, they have forfeited their place at the Jewish table," said the co-executive director of the group, Mik Moore. "It is incumbent upon the McCain campaign to speak out forcefully against this and ongoing efforts by his supporters to scare Jews into supporting his candidacy."
Brooks, however, denied that the poll was meant to influence Jewish voters, and said it was a traditional poll meant to gauge the opinions of Jewish voters.
"What we did is test, in standard polling methodology, a number of factual issues that have been reported on in the press and are policy positions to see how they're resonating in the Jewish community," said Brooks. "The notion that this is a 'push poll' is offensive to us."
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