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[Mandark]

The US cadging torture techniques from ye olde Communist powers isn't exactly new.

Worth pointing out that China and the USSR were at least as concerned with drawing out false confessions as they were with eliciting information.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Is there anything more delicious than Kos' bitter tears over Obama's move to the center?

The left doesn't win anyone general elections - they win you primary elections; Obama did a good job of convincing them that they matter. I have no problem with his recent religious positions, I actually think it's a good idea; probably won't translate to evangelical votes but we'll see. He had to move to the center a bit but I understand why some people are upset about stuff like FISA.

 

[maynerd]

NYT

For those who say waterboarding isn't torture.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808

 

[TDG]

The left doesn't win anyone general elections - they win you primary elections; Obama did a good job of convincing them that they matter. I have no problem with his recent religious positions, I actually think it's a good idea; probably won't translate to evangelical votes but we'll see. He had to move to the center a bit but I understand why some people are upset about stuff like FISA.

It will be interesting to see how targeting the evangelical vote turns out. I think it seems pretty obvious that he'll do better with evangelicals vs. McCain than Kerry did vs. Bush.

I think it's funny that one of the "bullet points" liberals in favor of Obama presented in the primaries was that he would reach across the aisle and be bipartisan, etc. Now many of those same people are pissed that he's moved to the center on some of his policies.

 

[Tamanon]

It will be interesting to see how targeting the evangelical vote turns out. I think it seems pretty obvious that he'll do better with evangelicals vs. McCain than Kerry did vs. Bush.

I think it's funny that one of the "bullet points" liberals in favor of Obama presented in the primaries was that he would reach across the aisle and be bipartisan, etc. Now many of those same people are pissed that he's moved to the center on some of his policies.

People wanted him to reach out and forcibly pull people onto their side of the aisle, not understanding that's not how it works.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It will be interesting to see how targeting the evangelical vote turns out. I think it seems pretty obvious that he'll do better with evangelicals vs. McCain than Kerry did vs. Bush.

I think it's funny that one of the "bullet points" liberals in favor of Obama presented in the primaries was that he would reach across the aisle and be bipartisan, etc. Now many of those same people are pissed that he's moved to the center on some of his policies.

McCain is ahead with evangelicals by more than 40 points. Obama is going to do better than Kerry and Gore did with that demographic, but I don't see it having much of an effect unless (like Todd brought up) many Christians wind up staying home. A few months ago the media kept harping on this idea that somehow McCain wouldn't get the evangelical vote and this could cost him the election. Many of the evangelical leaders are falling in line now. They recognize there's only one pro life (sigh I hate both terms), anti stem cell research candidate in the race who's going to stack the bench with judges they like. Obama isn't that guy so he's automatically out of luck with a huge portion of the demographic.

Personally I like the fact that Obama is taking faith away from the republican party, just as he's been trying to take patriotism from them. People seem to associate both with the GOP . They've done a good job of putting up that facade and it's frustrating that anyone could think that there's any compassion or faith in a party that starts wars of choice and thrives on corruption.

 

[speculawyer]

Dear lord, for hilarity's sake, please put Arizona in play.

I think it may somehwat be in play . . . at least in play enough that McCain will probably need to waste some advertising dollars there.

 

[Mandark]

I think Nate Silver's right that Obama's perceived shift to the center has been as much about outside events as anything else.

The two Supreme Court rulings and the FISA bill forced him into taking positions publicly on things that haven't been central to his campaign. Like Clinton and unlike Dodd, he never led in the fight against telecom immunity. Gun control and the death penalty didn't even get mentioned in his stump, IIRC.

I know liberals are (and should be) sensitive about being abandoned during the general election, but Obama's major priorities have been pretty clear for a while now. If someone is upset that those issues aren't up there, they could have figured that out over half a year ago.

 

[speculawyer]

McCain is ahead with evangelicals by more than 40 points. Obama is going to do better than Kerry and Gore did with that demographic, but I don't see it having much of an effect unless (like Todd brought up) many Christians wind up staying home.

It is pretty clear that Obama won't win the fundamentalist vote . . . but if he can reduce the amount that McCain gets, it can have a big effect. The older ones will vote McCain or nothing but many younger evangelicals do not sign on the to the 'gay hate' as much and do recognize 'stewardship of the earth' (kind of christian environmentalism) as an legitimate issue.

 

[Tamanon]

Anyone want to take bets on when marriage amendments start getting added to certain state ballots?

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.sunherald.com/newsupdates/story/660742.html

LOLZ

The atmosphere was tense, as the U.S. was pressing "pretty hard." Cochran noticed a disturbance at the meeting table in a room lined with armed personnel.

"McCain was down at the end of the table and we were talking to the head of the guerilla group here at this end of the table and I don't know what attracted my attention," Cochran said. "But I saw some kind of quick movement at the bottom of the table and I looked down there and John had reached over and grabbed this guy by the shirt collar and had snatched him up like he was throwing him up out of the chair to tell him what he thought about him or whatever. I don't know what he was telling him but I thought, good grief, everybody around here has got guns and we were there on a diplomatic mission. I don't know what had happened to provoke John but he obviously got mad at the guy and he just reached over there and snatched him."

I eagerly await the first G-8 meeting.

 

[Father_Brain]

Anyone want to take bets on when marriage amendments start getting added to certain state ballots?

That isn't going to work. The countermobilizing potential of the issue for the GOP has been greatly exaggerated; besides, the vast majority of the states that are likely to pass such amendments have already done so.

 

[Gaborn]

Anyone want to take bets on when marriage amendments start getting added to certain state ballots?

Adding to what Father Brain said, interestingly only one state has rejected a marriage amendment once it reached the ballot.

 

[Tamanon]

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1296.xml?ReleaseID=1190

Illinois Sen. Barack Obama crushes Arizona Sen. John McCain 56 - 35 percent among Connecticut likely voters, topping the Republican among every sub-group except Republican voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

Sen. Obama leads Sen. McCain 86 - 9 percent among Democrats and 52 - 36 percent among independent voters, while trailing 79 - 16 percent among Republicans, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds. The Democrat is ahead;
53 - 40 percent among men;
59 - 31 percent among women;
53 - 40 percent among white voters;
90 - 2 percent among black voters;
68 - 26 percent among voters 18 to 34 years old;
54 - 38 percent among voters 35 to 54 years old;
53 - 38 percent among voters over 55.
Connecticut voters say 53 - 35 percent that Obama should not pick New York Sen. Hillary Clinton as his running mate. Democrats like the idea 51 - 42 percent, but Republicans oppose it 66 - 18 percent and independent voters balk 54 - 31 percent.

"At this stage of the campaign, Sen. Barack Obama is rolling over Sen. John McCain in Connecticut. Quinnipiac University also has conducted surveys in seven swing states in the last two weeks and Sen. Obama is ahead in every one" said Quinnipiac University Poll Director Douglas Schwartz, Ph.D.

"It still is very early in the campaign and Obama gets a bump from not having to run against Sen. Clinton any more, but for now, the Connecticut landslide looks like part of a trend."

"Obama is winning among the demographic groups where he seemed to be having problems when he faced Sen. Clinton: white voters, especially whites with less than a college degree," Dr Schwartz added.

If McCain picks Sen. Joseph Lieberman as his running mate, only 14 percent of Connecticut voters say they are more likely to vote Republican, while 32 percent are less likely and 52 percent say it won't affect their vote.

Dammit!

That might end any hope of a Lieberman VP slot!

 

[Tamanon]

:lol at CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/01/cnn.poll.matchup/?iref=mpstoryview

"CNN Poll: Obama and McCain in statistical dead heat"

For a poll where Obama leads by 5 with a MoE of 3.5%

 

[Father_Brain]

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1296.xml?ReleaseID=1190



Dammit!

That might end any hope of a Lieberman VP slot!

Aside from foreign policy, Lieberman is far too liberal for most Republicans anyway. He'd be a terrible VP pick for a candidate who's already mistrusted by his party's conservative base.

 

[GhaleonEB]

:lol at CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/01/cnn.poll.matchup/?iref=mpstoryview

"CNN Poll: Obama and McCain in statistical dead heat"

For a poll where Obama leads by 5 with a MoE of 3.5%

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11797277&postcount=7625



Also, this was sooo predictable it's not even funny:

McCain Campaign: Obama's Trip To Iraq Just About Checking A Box Politically

The McCain campaign, which spent weeks beating up on Barack Obama for not visiting Iraq, is now moving to put a negative spin in advance on his planned trip to that country, which Obama has announced he'll undertake before the election.

Camp McCain's argument: What good is an Iraq trip if Obama has already made up his mind on what to do there as president anyway?

"I guess the question is, if indeed he's gonna to go to Iraq, and nothing that he sees will change or impact his decision-making on this, then why is he going?" McCain spokesperson Brian Rogers asked on a conference call with reporters just now.

"Is it just to check a box politically?" Rogers continued. "It sort of represents the kind of cynical politics that most people here, that the American people are pretty sick and tired of."

That's a case we'll be hearing from the McCain campaign a lot in the days ahead, particularly when the specifics of the trip become known and Obama actually goes to the war-torn country, something that will be an international story.

The Republican argument that the Dems want to pull out of Iraq regardless of the allegedly improving reality on the ground there is the GOP's best shot at fighting back against the Dem mirror-image argument, which is that the Repubs are committed to saying there forever regardless of reality. The battle is joined.

:lol

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_campaign_obamas_trip_to_1.php

 

[Tamanon]

"Why won't Obama go to Iraq? He doesn't understand the situation on the ground!"
"Oh, he's going to Iraq? Well he's not going to care about the situation on the ground!"

 

[mckmas8808]

McCain is ahead with evangelicals by more than 40 points. Obama is going to do better than Kerry and Gore did with that demographic, but I don't see it having much of an effect unless (like Todd brought up) many Christians wind up staying home. A few months ago the media kept harping on this idea that somehow McCain wouldn't get the evangelical vote and this could cost him the election. Many of the evangelical leaders are falling in line now. They recognize there's only one pro life (sigh I hate both terms), anti stem cell research candidate in the race who's going to stack the bench with judges they like. Obama isn't that guy so he's automatically out of luck with a huge portion of the demographic.

Personally I like the fact that Obama is taking faith away from the republican party, just as he's been trying to take patriotism from them. People seem to associate both with the GOP . They've done a good job of putting up that facade and it's frustrating that anyone could think that there's any compassion or faith in a party that starts wars of choice and thrives on corruption.

Perfectly said. And welcome back!

 

[bob_arctor]

"Why won't Obama go to Iraq? He doesn't understand the situation on the ground!"
"Oh, he's going to Iraq? Well he's not going to care about the situation on the ground!"

The best is that the public at large doesn't really give a fuck about these little bitch fits. I can make that blanket statement because unlike the media that deigns to speak for me, I actually am the public at large. My middle finger is on the pulse of this nation and reads these things deftly, defiantly and definitively.

 

[The Librarian]

Also, this was sooo predictable it's not even funny:

:lol

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_campaign_obamas_trip_to_1.php

Holy shit those guys are assholes.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Holy shit those guys are assholes.

 

[Tamanon]

I love how they had the nerve to actually use the term "cynical politics" in a statement saying that someone is just going to Iraq to "check a box":lol

 

[Tamanon]

And HERE is why Obama opted out of public financing.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat...es_independent_expenditure_arm_.html#comments

The Republican National Committee has tapped a GOP media consultant to run an independent expenditure campaign set up to target Barack Obama, according to a source familiar with the plan.

Brad Todd will run the new arm of the RNC, broadcasting ads and sending mailers with committee money.

The new entity is barred by law from any coordination with either McCain's campaign or the RNC, but some of the cash they use to air the spots will have been raised by the GOP nominee.

As first reported by Ben Smith, the RNC has reserved substantial advertising time in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. RNC officials wouldn't comment on the move -- a clear signal that the purchase was made by Todd and the new independent group.

Todd didn't immediately return a call.

For months, McCain has been raising money for a number of entities, including a joint Victory fund set up between the campaign and committee. The new group can use the portion of that money that had been allocated to the committee.

The decision to set up a separate arm was driven by the financial freedom such an entity offers. While the RNC is restricted by law to spend just $19.1 million in coordination with McCain's campaign, there is no limit on what an independent expenditure can spend.

Todd is a principal at On Message Inc., where he worked with partner Curt Anderson to help craft ads for Mitt Romney during the presidential campaign. A Tennessean, Todd did a stint running the Volunteer State GOP before working in House, Senate and gubernatorial campaigns as a media consultant.

Now what I don't understand is....the McCain campaign is not allowed to contact and coordinate with this new group, but they are allowed to fundraise for them.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I love how they had the nerve to actually use the term "cynical politics" in a statement saying that someone is just going to Iraq to "check a box":lol

The irony in that satement was so thick, it's mind-boggling. This after a week of them crying about a non-insult.

 

[The Lamonster]

man, how could any proud American be a Republican?

The irony in that statement was so thick, it's mind-boggling. This after a week of them crying about a non-insult.

QFT


Ghaleon, you should run for office.

 

[speculawyer]

Yahoo Headline:• John McCain's campaign gets staff shakeup

Story: Steve Schmidt is taking over the day-to-day operation of John McCain’s campaign, according to multiple campaign sources.


At a staff meeting in the campaign's Arlington, Va., headquarters this morning, campaign manager Rick Davis made the announcement about Schmidt's new role.

Schmidt, a bald and barrel-chested operative known for his aggressive brand of political combat, responded by exhorting campaign aides with a speech that one staffer likened to a locker room pep talk out of the football movie "Rudy."

Aww . . . I thought they all got a happy ending.

 

[Tamanon]

BTW, I wish he was more popular so I could get more mileage out of my "Flying an airplane and being shot down doesn't qualify you to be President, but it does qualify you to be a Green Lantern" joke.

 

[mckmas8808]

"Why won't Obama go to Iraq? He doesn't understand the situation on the ground!"
"Oh, he's going to Iraq? Well he's not going to care about the situation on the ground!"

This sounds like something that they would really say.

 

[mckmas8808]

And HERE is why Obama opted out of public financing.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonat...es_independent_expenditure_arm_.html#comments



Now what I don't understand is....the McCain campaign is not allowed to contact and coordinate with this new group, but they are allowed to fundraise for them.

So will the MSM talk for 5 days about this Politico finding? May the MSM give Obama an excuse to switch on public financing due to this find?

 

[bob_arctor]

BTW, I wish he was more popular so I could get more mileage out of my "Flying an airplane and being shot down doesn't qualify you to be President, but it does qualify you to be a Green Lantern" joke.

heh Totally off-topic but latest Batman RIP was quite the mind-fuck, eh?

 

[reilo]

Love the media proclaiming that "the Wesley Clark comments were supposed to last only a couple of days, but it seems like McCain got a lot more fuel to pour on the fire and the story will not go away!"

That's because you idiots are the ones keeping the story alive.

 

[The Lamonster]

HuffPost:

Fox News alters NYT reporters' images...:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Fox News is full of dummies.

 

[reilo]

HuffPost:

Fox News alters NYT reporters' images...:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

The hell?

FOX run by 4chan?

 

[maynerd]

Fox News... Stay Classy

 

[bob_arctor]

:lol :lol They yellowed the teeth! Ah, FOX never forgets the little details.

 

[reilo]

HuffPost:

Fox News alters NYT reporters' images...:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Fox News is full of dummies.

Made a thread about this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11804975

 

[thefro]

Sen Cochran (R) - MS said he saw McCain rough up a guy at a diplomatic meeting in 1987.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25495610/#storyContinued

"McCain was down at the end of the table and we were talking to the head of the guerrilla group here at this end of the table and I don't know what attracted my attention," Cochran said in an interview with The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Miss. "But I saw some kind of quick movement at the bottom of the table and I looked down there and John had reached over and grabbed this guy by the shirt collar and had snatched him up like he was throwing him up out of the chair to tell him what he thought about him or whatever ...

"I don't know what he was telling him but I thought, 'Good grief, everybody around here has got guns and we were there on a diplomatic mission.' I don't know what had happened to provoke John, but he obviously got mad at the guy ... and he just reached over there and snatched ... him."

"The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine," Cochran said about McCain by phone. "He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."

 

[Smiles and Cries]

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1296.xml?ReleaseID=1190



Dammit!

That might end any hope of a Lieberman VP slot!

I'm in CT does that mean I can stay home in November?

kidding

Cannot wait!!!

 

[mckmas8808]

HuffPost:

Fox News alters NYT reporters' images...:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Fox News is full of dummies.

Yeah why are their teeth so yellow now?

 

[The Lamonster]

Yeah why are their teeth so yellow now?

April Fools? Halloween? Fox News immaturity?

 

[Zonar]

So will the MSM talk for 5 days about this Politico finding? May the MSM give Obama an excuse to switch on public financing due to this find?

what is MSM?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah why are their teeth so yellow now?

The Times actually whitened them. Not shown are their little devil's tail and pitchforks.

what is MSM?

Mainstream media.

 

[Dahellisdat]

Yeah why are their teeth so yellow now?

FOX pisses in everyone's mouths.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Elizabeth Edwards headlines $40M health care campaign

The NRA may be spending $40 million on pro-gun rights ads aimed at Barack Obama, but a coalition of liberal groups and labor unions is going to match that figure with a push on another hot issue: universal health care.

Next week, the group Health Care for America Now will unveil a $40 million effort, with the first ad buy being a $1.5 million in national print, online and broadcast advertising.

Elizabeth Edwards, wife of 2004 vice presidential nominee John Edwards, is the headliner for the coalition, which includes a who's who list of liberal organizations such as MoveOn.org, the housing group ACORN, Americans United for Change, the Campaign for America’s Future, the Center for American Progress Action Fund, the National Education Association, National Women’s Law Center, Planned Parenthood and the Service Employees International Union.

The group's goal is to provide "quality, affordable health care for every American," and it obviously dovetails with the Obama campaign's promise of providing universal health care. The group will spend $25 million in paid media, while also funding 100 organizers involved in events around the country.

The campaign launches July 8 with an event at the National Press Club, but the coalition says there will be simultaneous events that day in 44 other cities around the country.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecr...wards_headlines_40M_health_care_campaign.html

Not one of McCain's strong issues.

 

[mckmas8808]

How do you guys feel about the Government bailing out GM (General Motors)? They are only worth $6 Billion, while Toyota is worth $148 Billion.

 

[The Librarian]

HuffPost:

Fox News alters NYT reporters' images...:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Fox News is full of dummies.

:lol :lol What the hell.

 

[mckmas8808]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecr...wards_headlines_40M_health_care_campaign.html

Not one of McCain's strong issues.

So of course these ads are basically pro-Obama.

 

[mckmas8808]

dp

 

[GhaleonEB]

So of course these ads are basically pro-Obama.

She has said she would campaign for Obama, and skimming the list of unions, I think all of them have endorsed Obama. So I think that's a safe bet.

Also, this is why McCain is trying to downplay Obama's overseas trip:

GOP Fears That Obama Will Get a Boost From Foreign Travel

Republican strategists see Obama looking more knowledgeable and presidential rather than making gaffes

Republican strategists are worried that Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama will make a very positive impression and burnish his international credentials when he takes his much-ballyhooed foreign trips in the coming weeks.

"It has the potential to be a big plus for Obama," says a senior Republican who has advised several presidents over the years. "The American people know we are not liked overseas anymore, and it bothers them. People feel that Obama could help change that."

To reinforce such an image, Obama is billing himself as a new type of commander in chief who will listen to America's allies far more than George W. Bush has—and that is expected to be a major theme of his sojourns.

GOP candidate John McCain, who is currently on his own trip to Colombia and Mexico, has been needling Obama for his lack of foreign policy experience, and has often pointed out that Obama has not visited Iraq in many months. (Obama was there in January 2006 as part of a congressional delegation.)

Now that's about to change. Obama has announced plans to visit Great Britain, France, Germany, Israel, and Jordan in the coming weeks—and also travel to Iraq and Afghanistan before the Democratic National Convention in August.

When these trips were first disclosed, GOP advisers saw the potential for Obama to make some serious gaffes or otherwise reveal his ignorance of global and national security issues. Now many of them believe that with the kind of excellent advance work and the depth of preparation for which the Obama campaign is known, he will probably look knowledgeable, diplomatic, and presidential.

And that could be bad news for McCain, GOP insiders say.

Which explains McCain's switch from goading Obama to go to Iraq to downplaying it.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news...ama-will-get-a-boost-from-foreign-travel.html