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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Tamanon said:
Likely voters is a silly thing to use right now anyways, but hey, it's another data point. The first one with even a hint of McCain in the lead, albeit with a very small sample size. We'll see. :p

If you look at the data used for the poll you can see that the numbers were fudged to provide the narrative that it's close and McCain has a legitimate chance of winning. I guess it helps make certain scenarios more feasible come election day, whereas no one would buy a McCain 'win' if he was behind a minimum of 8 points in each and every poll:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/7/28/1538/71930/93#c93

:lol at the notion that Obama's voters - keep in mind the oft-documented gap in enthusiasm between supporters of the two candidates - being exponentially less likely to vote than the lukewarm McCain crowd. But still, it helps agendas.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
maynerd said:
How many rep points do people start with?
10
TheDrowningMan said:
If you look at the data used for the poll you can see that the numbers were fudged to provide the narrative that it's close and McCain has a legitimate chance of winning. I guess it helps make certain scenarios more feasible come election day, whereas no one would buy a McCain 'win' if he was behind a minimum of 8 points in each and every poll:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/7/28/1538/71930/93#c93

:lol at the notion that Obama's voters - keep in mind the oft-documented gap in enthusiasm between supporters of the two candidates - being exponentially less likely to vote than the lukewarm McCain crowd. But still, it helps agendas.
16% of Obama's support isn't likely to vote while only 2% of McCain's support is unlikely to vote?
Pretty much. Wow.
 

APF

Member
Ana Marie Cox has an interesting take on that study mentioned in the old LAT piece we talked about the other day:

time-blog.com said:
The LA Times' On the Media column points out a provocative study from (my old employer) the Center on Media and Public Affairs that seems to deflate the conventional wisdom that Obama is benefiting from favorable media coverage. The center classified statements about the candidates from the nightly network newscasts over the past six weeks as either "positive" or "negative" (or neutral) and found "when network news people ventured opinions in recent weeks, 28% of the statements were positive for Obama and 72% negative." McCain wasn't exactly coddled, but the split measured by CMPA was far less dramatic: "43% of the statements positive and 57% negative."

My job at CMPA was to provide critical analysis of popular studies; I tended to find that most polls and studies quoted in popular media are not in themselves flawed or dishonest, but that writers and readers tended to emphasize the topline results, without looking at the ways in which methodology skews those results. Like, for instance, with this study. The authors admit that "most on-air statements during that time could not be classified as positive or negative," and that, in fact, found "less than two opinion statements per night on the candidates on all three networks combined." (I actually think that this apparent LACK of bias should be the real headline of the study.) Let's be generous and say that the average was about 1.5 "opinionated" statements a night -- that's a grand total of about 60 "biased" statements since the study began on June 8. The article doesn't provide a break down for how the total number of biased statements split between the candidates, but another recent study of the evening news found that Obama received about 70 percent of all campaign coverage and McCain just under 30 percent. Applying that basic proportion to the 60-something biased statements uttered in the past month and a half, you get 40 statements about Obama and 20 about McCain.

Compared to the massive amounts of political coverage -- and opinion -- available in the media over all, this is not a particularly significant sample.

[...]

Obama and his family have been on the cover of both Us and People in the past month, in addition to Obama having snagged glamorous portraits on the covers of Esquire, Rolling Stone and (in multiple instances) Time and Newsweek.

The power of celebrity as a media influence, as every American knows, transcends that of politicians. They get away with more, they earn more, we pay attention to them more. The Obamas are very much on their way to becoming the Bradgelina of the White House, and part of me is thrilled. It's been a long time since Americans paid that much attention to the occupants of 1600 Penn. And then there's the part of me that worries about what happens if we are as tolerant of politicians as we are of movie stars, or if we forget that, in the end, both celebrities and politicians work for us. Angelina may have a face that could launch a thousand ships, but she can't actually start a war.

Read more
 

Mumei

Member
APF said:
Again, interesting, but not sure what we can take away from that. Should interviewers and commentators therefore alter their job descriptions to mirror what a portion of the public chooses to call them, while at the same time this same public does not necessarily expect these interviewers and commentators to behave as objective journalists? I don't expect a layman to be able to use correct terms, but your article does not show me a large portion of his viewers expect him to be impartial (or at least, to the extent that if it were revealed he was giving his opinion, they would be scandalized).

Well, I think that there's some relevancy to the fact that, at least insofar as his usage of the major techniques of propagandizing, he does so with more frequency than Charles Coughlin when discussing Fox as a channel.

I do not claim that Bill O'Reilly's audience expects or wishes for him to be impartial; I merely claim that his show goes beyond simply offering his interpretation of events to the point of propagandizing, and I think that much is supported.
 

maynerd

Banned
Bush got his image on major magazines like rolling stone too!

9961687-9961690-slarge.jpg
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
White House predicts record-breaking 2009 deficit. $490bil deficit.

BUT THEY SAID THE OIL WOULD PAY FOR ALL OF IT DAMMIT.

Your tax cuts at work.

Oh, not to mention the stock market saw another big dip today.
 

maynerd

Banned
Tamanon said:
Also, isn't that deficit still keeping the war funding out of it?

Yes

The administration actually underestimates the deficit, however, since it leaves out about $80 billion in war costs. In a break from tradition _ and in violation of new mandates from Congress _ the White House did not include its full estimate of war costs.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
I think the war supplemental's included in that number.

It's the longer term projections where they use that cheat (and assume the expiration of tax cuts they favor, and no AMT fix, etc.).



edit: Well, in my face.
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Mandark said:
That gives me an excuse to c/p this quote:
heh.

i'm starting to believe that Obama's going to lead a 'third-way' Blairism in the US (itself just repackaged Thatcherism), to much the same results. behold our conservative liberalism! U of C represents.
 
reilo said:
White House predicts record-breaking 2009 deficit. $490bil deficit.

BUT THEY SAID THE OIL WOULD PAY FOR ALL OF IT DAMMIT.

Your tax cuts at work.

Oh, not to mention the stock market saw another big dip today.

I thought the increase in debt was due to the stimulus checks? Well, that's according to CNN that is.......
 

APF

Member
Mumei said:
I do not claim that Bill O'Reilly's audience expects or wishes for him to be impartial; I merely claim that his show goes beyond simply offering his interpretation of events to the point of propagandizing, and I think that much is supported.
The bar for "propagandizing" is extremely low. It's everywhere: look at the RS cover posted above, look at this thread, etc. It's hard not to propagandize when you have an opinion-based show that is focused on one person's populist-nationalist-traditionalist views and how he interprets world events. Still, I think you've strayed far enough from whatever it was you were trying to counter when you first posted that link, that this conversation is at best, digression.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Hardball preview:

"Has Obama made the turning point? Or has McCain staying home paid dividends?"

le sigh
 
I love this gem from first read:

But do consider this question: Which candidate has the bigger problem in the polls -- Obama (who seems to have hit a ceiling in the high 40s) or the better-known McCain (who’s stuck in the low 40s in many national or state polls)? It's a problem for both, but the fact that McCain can't get past 45% in so many polls could be the bigger problem.

the better known guy hasn't been able to get any type of lead...and it's a problem for both. But hey, it could be a bigger problem for McCain. It's debatable of course, really hard to tell, but McCain might just maybe possibly have a poll problem. Sorta. Can't be sure either way though.

TEH NARRATIVE!
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
soul creator said:
I love this gem from first read:



the better known guy hasn't been able to get any type of lead...and it's a problem for both

See above post.

quadriplegicjon said:
i think you linked the wrong article: "Charles Barkley tips well."

"Sir Charles told [Christian] Abate he would like to help him with his tuition, and Abate wasn't sure how to respond. Barkley didn't give him much time, telling Abate that he had the length of Barkley's meal to decide. Abate wisely accepted.

"He's a nice kid," Barkley said of Abate on Friday. "He was working with kids, I loved that he wanted to be a teacher, and I wanted to help him," Barkley told us by phone between stops on a flight to Reno where he was making a speech.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Ahahahaha. So predictable.

MSNBC running with the USA/TODAY poll with McCain leading by 4%.

So fucking predictable.

BUT THE MEDIA LOVES OBAMA!

EDIT: At least they mentioned Daily Gallups.

EDIT 2: Pat Buchanan calls Obama's Berlin speech "something written by John Lennon. It was mush."
 

GhaleonEB

Member
reilo said:
Ahahahaha. So predictable.

MSNBC running with the USA/TODAY poll with McCain leading by 4%.

So fucking predictable.

BUT THE MEDIA LOVES OBAMA!

EDIT: At least they mentioned Daily Gallups.

EDIT 2: Pat Buchanan calls Obama's Berlin speech "something written by John Lennon. It was mush."
I expect nothing less of Pat.

I'm dubious of most "likely voter" filtering, but tossing 16% of Obama's results and only 2% of McCain's just reeks of bullshit.

Tamanon said:
First Read might've been on to something. The Obama campaign staff is now meeting at Eric Holder, the Veep vetter's office. :p
Hmmmmm. Sounds like they're close to wrapping it up.
 

Tamanon

Banned
:lol Buchanan: "I don't know why Obama isn't 21 or 25 points ahead! Jimmy Carter was 33 points ahead at this point on Gerald Ford!"
 

Hootie

Member
Tamanon said:
:lol Buchanan: "I don't know why Obama isn't 21 or 25 points ahead! Jimmy Carter was 33 points ahead at this point on Gerald Ford!"

Aw fuck, I said Matthews would blurt that out! Eh, he's not even there today anyway. I knew somebody would say it though!
 
reilo said:
Ahahahaha. So predictable.

MSNBC running with the USA/TODAY poll with McCain leading by 4%.

So fucking predictable.

BUT THE MEDIA LOVES OBAMA!

EDIT: At least they mentioned Daily Gallups.

EDIT 2: Pat Buchanan calls Obama's Berlin speech "something written by John Lennon. It was mush."

Indeed. Find the outlier and run with it. Good job there MSNBC (and CNN). You know it's bad when even Pat Buchanan is discounting the poll as crap.

Also, it's Pat Buchanan speak. Did you really expect anything less from him?
 

GhaleonEB

Member
maximum360 said:
Indeed. Find the outlier and run with it. Good job there MSNBC (and CNN). You know it's bad when even Pat Buchanan is discounting the poll as crap.

Also, it's Pat Buchanan speak. Did you really expect anything less from him?
It's not even as much of an outlier as first appears. Most of the polls reported, like the daily tracking polls, are of registered voters. Among registered voters in this poll, Obama is ahead, though marginally. But they're going to ignore that part of the poll as well. Teh narrative and all that. :lol
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
scorcho said:
heh.

i'm starting to believe that Obama's going to lead a 'third-way' Blairism in the US (itself just repackaged Thatcherism), to much the same results. behold our conservative liberalism! U of C represents.

The DLC back in the day is the obvious comparison to Blair's approach, Obama not so much.

Blair explicitly fought against the left wing of the labor party on closed shops and Clause IV before he became Prime Minister. The "New Labour" branding was explicitly about drawing his party towards the center, like Clinton being a "New Democrat".

Obama's platform involves a big expansion of government regulation and spending in healthcare and environmental/energy issues. IIRC Blair raised spending on social programs like education but never had any major reforms that weren't pointed towards privatization. He's not Bernie Sanders but he's not Marshall Wittmann either.

Plus all the caveats that the UK and US are different political environments. American trade unions never had the power that their British cousins did, Labour's postwar reforms were a lot more social democratic than the New Deal ones, Republicans are way more insane than Tories, etc.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Tamanon said:
:lol Buchanan: "I don't know why Obama isn't 21 or 25 points ahead! Jimmy Carter was 33 points ahead at this point on Gerald Ford!"

Barrel bottoms everywhere squirm nervously, dreading what nether regions may yet be mined.
 

Hootie

Member
Well, if McCain wins I hope he at least picks a decent VP. I think he'll die in office considering his age and his problems with melanoma/etc.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I just don't think he'll finish his term if elected.
 

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
Hootie said:
Well, if McCain wins I hope he at least picks a decent VP. I think he'll die in office considering his age and his problems with melanoma/etc.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I just don't think he'll finish his term if elected.

McCain Has Mole Removed As Precaution

During a regular checkup Monday morning in Phoenix, McCain's doctor decided to remove the mole on the right side of his face near the temple as a precaution, according to a campaign spokesman. The doctor was not concerned that the mole was a recurrence of skin cancer that left a scar along McCain's left cheek.
 

Tamanon

Banned
"That's the Bill Clinton line, carving out sections of time to use to think and read"
"Well I hope he makes better use of his time!"

Yowch!
 

Hootie

Member
Damn, I had no idea that Andrea Mitchell was 61 years old! AND that she is married to 82 year old Alan Greenspan. Mind = Blown.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Is this guy serious?

Black dude on Hardball said if we had followed Barack Obama and gotten out of Iraq by March 2008, we wouldn't have had the surge, and we wouldn't have political stability in Iraq, and we would have lost the war.

I'd love to see the brainwave reading on these GOP hawks.
 

Tamanon

Banned
reilo said:
Is this guy serious?

Black dude on Hardball said if we had followed Barack Obama and gotten out of Iraq by March 2008, we wouldn't have had the surge, and we wouldn't have political stability in Iraq, and we would have lost the war.

I'd love to see the brainwave reading on these GOP hawks.

The cross-eyed dude? Yeah he's hilarious.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Tamanon said:
The cross-eyed dude? Yeah he's hilarious.

I wish I had the moral compass of a turd to be able to lie like this day in and day out and still pretend the bullshit I just smelt and dealt was made of roses.

Mandark said:
Stuart Scott's doing political commentary now?

</LowHangingFruit>

</rimshot>
 

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Mandark: interesting. have to do some more reading on Blair's reign before i comment further. it was on my mind since i read a piece over the weekend that Obama's (and McCain, i guess) senatorial roots will likely lead him to govern left-of-center and value procedure over partisanship to get things done. it also goes hand-in-hand with my previous concerns on his economic platform (partially mollified by the WSJ interview) and foreign policy (Israel).

and another cute link to my half-hearated, jocular and jocktastic belief that U of C wants to take over the world, with Obama as the spearhead - http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/12/economy.conservatives
 
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