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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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G

GhaleonEB

Member
reilo said:
Can Obama sue for slander?
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Dunno. Probably not a good idea either way.

It hasn't gotten too much notice, but Obama has called McCain's recent attacks "lies" a few times this week. Generally politicians avoid that term. I've heard "misleading" "not telling the truth", "deceptive", etc. but never called an outright lie. When Obama shot back over the tire gage bit, he said "they're lying about my energy plan" and the statement response to McCain's last ad started out "the ad is a lie".

I've never seen lies simply called lies in politics before; I thought it was encouraging that Obama was starting to call them what they are.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Just when you thought that the big networks would learn after the Katie Couric interview with John McCain debacle:

Various news organizations are posting a link to the "full" Nightline transcript but when you click on it, you'll notice that ABC News conventiently posts "select" parts of the transcript.

Additionally, if you go to the ABC News website, you'll be able to see parts of the Nigthline interview not all of it. It conveniently leaves out the part that Edwards takes a shot at McCain's own infedility.

You can check the original video in its entirity on Huffingtonpost.com here. Last night, Nightline didn't have the full video, only today and you have to dig for it among the many options.

Then you can go to the New York Times and The Page and look for the link that says "full trasncript." You will not find the part that Edwards mentions McCain.

This is another example of the MSM protecting McCain. I learned about the McCain shot via Politico but when I started to look for it, to see/read it for myself I couldn't find it.

I hope TPM or KO bring this up in their next coverage and put the spot on ABC News in the same way they did with CBS News.
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/9/125047/6475/80/565366

The full unedited video is located here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/09/john-edwards-abc-intervie_n_117883.html

I'm guessing Keith O. and Dan Abrams will probably cover this but no one else. Chris Matthews may if he gets back but Mike Barnacle would likely be proactive in burying the story too.
 
V

Verano

Reads Ace as Lace. May God have mercy on their soul
It's all politics guys...geez.

Obama just needs to talk shit back to McCain. All thug nasty and shit.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
So Ive noticed Obama running very positive feel good ads during the Olympics, while McCain is running attack ads.

Not sure that is going to play well during the Olympics, and I think its a mistake.. McCain has a great patriotic story, I think he should be running with that during the Olympics.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
StoOgE said:
So Ive noticed Obama running very positive feel good ads during the Olympics, while McCain is running attack ads.

Not sure that is going to play well during the Olympics, and I think its a mistake.. McCain has a great patriotic story, I think he should be running with that during the Olympics.
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It'll work in McCain's favor because man, that guy is a maverick.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
StoOgE said:
So Ive noticed Obama running very positive feel good ads during the Olympics, while McCain is running attack ads.

Not sure that is going to play well during the Olympics, and I think its a mistake.. McCain has a great patriotic story, I think he should be running with that during the Olympics.
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Where can I see Obama's Olympics ads?
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
AniHawk said:
It'll work in McCain's favor because man, that guy is a maverick.
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but going negative has done nothing for him in the polls, and I honestly think with a bad economy ang generally negative disposition of the American people being pisitive is the way to go. I really think McCains camp is as hapless as they ever were, the MSM has just moved on to Obama = arogant.
 
M

maximum360

Member
StoOgE said:
its a national ad buy, im getting them in Texas where Obama isnt spending a dime.

I was mostly being a smartass.
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You can't real blame the Obama camp. That is straight up Bush country. Obama may have a better shot at NC.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Tamanon said:
NC is definitely in play, especially if his GOTV works out like it's supposed to.
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08NCPresGEMvO600.png


Yup, looks in play to me.
 
N

NewLib

Banned
Kildace said:
Interesting write-up about the last 2 years of the Bush presidency by Newsweek. I enjoy even-handed articles like this one, they're far too rare.
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I give Bush zero credit for the post-Rumsfield foreign policy changes. Its all from Robert Gates and a little bit of Condi Rice running the show now as it goes with foreign policy.

Honestly if I was Obama and I really wanted to show that I was above party politics, I would keep Gates as Secretary of Defense. What he has been able to do is nothing short of miraculous.

Of course that will never happen.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Actually I'm pretty sure Gates will stay on for a while afterwards if Obama takes office, he's done a really good job with what he inherited and Obama's spoken of him in pretty positive terms.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
File this one under "you gotta be kidding me"

The McCain campaign is pushing back at press reports noting that his top foreign policy advisor Randy Scheuenemann has until recently worked as a lobbyist for the Georgian government, and is still a principal at his lobbying firm -- thus rendering the candidate's pronouncements on Russia's invasion of Georgia as arguably suspect.

The campaign's new line: The criticism of this apparent conflict of interest is proof that Barack Obama's campaign is "bizarrely in sync with Moscow."

Check out this statement released today by the McCain campaign:
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"The Obama campaign's attacks on Randy Scheunemann are disgraceful. Mr. Scheunemann proudly represented a small democracy that is one of our closest allies in a very dangerous region. Today, many are dead and Georgia is in crisis, yet the Obama campaign has offered nothing more than cheap and petty political attacks that are echoed only by the Kremlin. The reaction of the Obama campaign to this crisis, so at odds with our democratic allies and yet so bizarrely in sync with Moscow, doesn't merely raise questions about Senator Obama's judgment--it answers them."
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It's the same thing they're trying with the DHL closure in Ohio: by pointing out McCain's lobbyist ties, they are attacking the people being harmed.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
It's really bizarre considering that almost every other government response has been even and measured and not openly painting Russia as the bad guy, but McCain's camp somehow says they're not saying that:p
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
maximum360 said:
I'm not sure it was posted before but this video is an absolute embarrassment to the McCain camp. The guy is a disaster waiting to happen. He just happens to be 8 years late for the presidency.

I love how the "Librul Media" covers all this stuff in depth.
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what video?
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
GhaleonEB said:
It's the same thing they're trying with the DHL closure in Ohio: by pointing out McCain's lobbyist ties, they are attacking the people being harmed.
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The Rove-ian "attack your opponent on his strengths" strategy is failing this year. Too much movement. Even Obama haters would have a hard time absorbing this many weak attacks. There's no driving, singular message for them to cling to, abortion-style. Handsome, erudite, wordly, young, intelligent aren't really working as attacks.

Especially when you consider their presumed opposite and antithesis, McCain.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Oooh. Finally Obama's ad shows up! And it's in glorious HD! Dude spending moneyz and shits.
 
M

maximum360

Member
NewLib said:
I give Bush zero credit for the post-Rumsfield foreign policy changes. Its all from Robert Gates and a little bit of Condi Rice running the show now as it goes with foreign policy.

Honestly if I was Obama and I really wanted to show that I was above party politics, I would keep Gates as Secretary of Defense. What he has been able to do is nothing short of miraculous.

Of course that will never happen.
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I agree. Gates seems to be doing a good job, calling it as he sees it. Condi also isn't a twit. I don't agree with some of her stances but it's been publicized that she's the anti-Cheney force in the White House. Had it not been for her objections to many of Cheney's plans or ideas the country would be in a greater disaster than we're in already. I also like that she doesn't take cheap shots at Obama (well not as far as I've seen or heard anyway). She's similar to Colin Powell in this way.

I think Powell later realized his part in the disaster called the Iraq war and exited stage left when the opportunity arose. I'm sure if he came out to speak against the administration they would disavow his competence or efforts in his role in the WhiteHouse as well.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Sorry, here's the video I mentioned earlier: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/08/mccain-dazed-and-confused_n_117752.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/why-mccain-would-mediocre-president/story.aspx?guid={4914192B-12AF-4623-AB18-5EFE91204B04}&print=true&dist=printMidSection

REX NUTTING
Why McCain would be a mediocre president
Commentary: It's not a given that Republican candidate has the right stuff
By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch
Last update: 3:53 p.m. EDT Aug. 7, 2008
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- In his frivolous Paris and Britney ad, Sen. John McCain has asked the right question: Is Barack Obama ready to lead this country?
Since last January, Sen. Obama's fitness for the presidency has been the only question that matters in American politics. The pollsters and pundits agree that if Obama can show the voters that he's up to the job, he'll win. If not, he won't.
But that begs another question: Is McCain fit to lead America?
That question hasn't been asked, nor has it been answered.
The assumption seems to be that McCain's years of experience in the military and in Congress of course give him the background and tools he'd need in the White House. As Britney might say, "Duh! For sure he's qualified!!! He's Mac!!!"
But is that true? Does McCain have the right stuff?
A careful look at McCain's biography shows that he isn't prepared for the job. His resume is much thinner than most people think.
Here are some reasons why McCain would be a mediocre president.
Lack of accomplishments
Like the current occupant of the White House, McCain got his first career breaks from the connections and money of his family, not from hard work.
The son and grandson of Navy admirals, he attended Annapolis where he did poorly. Nevertheless, he was commissioned as a pilot, where he performed poorly, crashing three planes before he failed to evade a North Vietnamese missile that destroyed his plane. McCain spent more than five years in a prison camp.
After his release, McCain knew his weak military record meant he'd never make admiral, so he turned his sights to a career in politics. With the help of his new wife's wealth, his new father-in-law's business connections and some powerful friends had made as a lobbyist for the Navy, he was elected in 1982 to a Congress in a district that he didn't reside in until the day the seat opened up. A few years later, he succeeded Barry Goldwater as a senator.
McCain hasn't accomplished much in the Senate. Even his own campaign doesn't trumpet his successes, probably because the few victories he's had still rankle Republicans.
His campaign finance law failed to significantly reduce the role of money in politics. He failed to get a big tobacco bill through the Senate. He's failed to change the way Congress spends money; his bill to give the president a line-item veto was declared unconstitutional, and the system of pork and earmarks continues unabated. He failed to reform the immigration system.
Every senator who runs for president misses votes back in Washington, so it's no surprise that McCain and all the others who ran in the primaries have missed a lot of votes in the past year. But between the beginning of 2005 and mid-2007, no senator missed more roll-call votes than McCain did, except Tim Johnson, who was recovering from a near-fatal brain aneurysm.
Shallow
McCain says he doesn't understand the economy. He's demonstrated that he doesn't understand the workings of Social Security, or the political history of the Middle East. He doesn't know who our enemies are. He says he wants to reduce global warming, but then proposes ideas that would stimulate -- not reduce -- demand for fossil fuels.
McCain has done one thing well -- self promotion. Instead of working on legislation or boning up on the issues, he's been on "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" more than any other guest. He's been on the Sunday talk shows more than any other guest in the past 10 years. He's hosted "Saturday Night Live" and even announced his candidacy in 2007 on "The Late Show with David Letterman."
McCain has not articulated any lofty goals. So far, his campaign theme has mostly been "McCain: He's None of the Above."
In the primaries, he campaigned on "I'm not that robotic businessman, I'm not that sanctimonious hick, I'm not that crazy libertarian, I'm not that washed-up actor, I'm not that delusional 9/11 guy." In the general election, he's emphasized that he's not that treasonous dreamer.
No leadership
McCain has frequently taken on near-impossible missions that go against the grain of his party. It's the basis of his reputation as a maverick. But McCain has never been able to bring more than a handful of Republicans along with him on issues such as campaign finance reform or immigration. Democrats on the Hill have accepted McCain's help on some issues, but except for a few exceptions (John Kerry and Joe Lieberman), they've never warmed to him.
To achieve anything as president, McCain would have to win over two hostile parties: The Democrats and the Republicans.
Living in the Sixties
McCain is still fighting the Vietnam War. But he's not fighting the real historic war, which taught us the folly of injecting ourselves into a civil war that was none of our business. We learned that, in a world where even peasants have guns, explosives and radios, a determined and popular guerrilla force can defeat a modern army equipped with the mightiest technology if that army has no vital national interest to protect.
Instead, McCain is fighting an imaginary Vietnam War, where a sure victory could have been achieved with just a little more bombing, just a little more "pacification," just a little more will to win at home. This fantasy clouds McCain's judgment on foreign policy.
Most of the other high-profile politicians who fought in Vietnam -- Colin Powell, Chuck Hegel, John Kerry, and Jim Webb -- aren't stuck in the past, and they don't view the Iraq War as a chance to get Vietnam right.
No principles
After years of honing a reputation as a guy who'll say the truth regardless of the political consequences, McCain has crashed the Straight Talk Express. On almost every issue where he took a principled stand against the Republican line -- taxes, immigration, oil drilling, the Religious Right -- he's changed his views.
We ought to like politicians who change their mind when the facts change; it shows maturity, judgment and flexibility. But politicians who change their mind to suit the prevailing winds show the opposite.
The bottom line
Successful presidents come from two molds: visionaries, or mechanics. The visionaries -- think Reagan or FDR -- see what others can't and say 'Why not?" to inspire the country. The mechanics -- think LBJ or Eisenhower -- know the ins and outs of government and are able to harness the power of millions of humans to accomplish great things, or at least keep the wheels from coming off.
McCain fits neither style. He's neither a dreamer, nor a detail guy. His major accomplishment, in Vietnam and in the Senate, has been merely to survive.
Just surviving doesn't make you're a hero, or a decent president. America needs to do more than survive the next four years.
Rex Nutting is Washington bureau chief of MarketWatch.
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R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
That was a pretty poorly written article. The author failed to cite any of his opinions using actual quotes by McCain or by more expert analysts in the field.

It reads like a high school politics paper written by a student.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
maximum360 said:
I agree. Gates seems to be doing a good job, calling it as he sees it. Condi also isn't a twit. I don't agree with some of her stances but it's been publicized that she's the anti-Cheney force in the White House. Had it not been for her objections to many of Cheney's plans or ideas the country would be in a greater disaster than we're in already. I also like that she doesn't take cheap shots at Obama (well not as far as I've seen or heard anyway). She's similar to Colin Powell in this way.

I think Powell later realized his part in the disaster called the Iraq war and exited stage left when the opportunity arose. I'm sure if he came out to speak against the administration they would disavow his competence or efforts in his role in the WhiteHouse as well.
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She will probably be regarded as one of the worst National Security Advisor's ever and giving her credit for finally doing her job just won't cut it. She let Cheney and Rumsfeld run roughshod over her and her office during the first term and only when the political winds changed did she finally manage to reverse course and utilize her role in any sort of effective manner.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Incognito said:
She will probably be regarded as one of the worst National Security Advisor's ever and giving her credit for finally doing her job just won't cut it. She let Cheney and Rumsfeld run roughshod over her and her office during the first term and only when the political winds changed did she finally manage to reverse course and utilize her role in any sort of effective manner.
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I'm giving my opinion on the matter based on what I've read. No one, besides those in the WhiteHouse really know what goes on in there. When you've got a president who would rather talk baseball stats/scores and pretty much left the governance to Cheney, what do you really expect to happen? It's only since the tide has shifted and Bush is now seen as a lame duck with Cheney as the maniacal mastermind has Rice gotten a more prominent role.


The fact of the matter is that Cheney was given too much power according to the article in Washington Post or on MSNBC (I can't remember which), Cheney was able to overrule Rice on most things because he had the president's ear.

On another topic though, I think as things progress, McCain's (previous) charm will (or actually has already started to) fade if he continues in his negative tone. His previous wooing of the media has been what's kept him viable this long by appeasing the press core enough so they would not scrutinize his personal life or policies much. With his increasing reluctance to spend time with the press as was his usual fare (which is probably not his idea) due to his numerous gaffes or dazed and confused moments, this only complicates matters for him.

I will say though I am impressed by Obama's new tactics. The ground game is what really matters. If the Obama campaign can continue to massively out-organize the McCain campaign, send out a positive message on the national level while hitting McCain hard on specific issues on a state by state basis, he may very well change how the game is played. The ads out in Ohio and Nevada are a perfect example of this and have put the McCain camp on defense. If he can do this in all the battleground states he may very well pull it off come November. And so far, Obama has been able to stay above the fray and not delve into character assassination mode as McCain has.

The things that they still lack though are good, consistent surrogates who really are willing to go there. Kerry does a terrific job, but many of the democratic strategists are pathetic in comparison. McCain surrogates time and time again go after Obama's character with wild distortions of his beliefs and policies while democratic strategists spend most of the time playing weak defense. Wehn McCain has dumbed down his political rhetoric to "Surge", "Drill", and "War Hero" and democrats are dumbfounded as how to combat that, they have a problem.

Besides the Obama surrogates being weak on message, they also lack in coordination of message. To their credit, the McCain surrogates may only spout RNC talking points but they do it *well*. They, for the most part stay on message, while some democratic strategists look like a deer in headlights.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Door2Dawn said:
While the article makes valid points,I think you can say the same about Obama.
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um, no. The lack of accomplishments for sure but the rest of the complaints don't apply to Obama at all.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Haven't seen it posted yet, but here is an article detailing those internal memos that are supposed to come out.

Pretty interesting read:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12420.html

Green reports that on a staff conference call in January where Clinton received “little response” or “silence” to several of her suggestions for how to recover from the Iowa loss and do better in New Hampshire.

“Clinton began to grow angry, according to a participant’s notes,” Green recounts. “ ‘This has been a very instructive call, talking to myself,’ she snapped, and hung up.”
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“The anger and toxic obsessions overwhelmed even the most reserved Beltway wise men,” Green writes. “[H]er advisers couldn’t execute strategy; they routinely attacked and undermined each other, and Clinton never forced a resolution. … he never behaved like a chief executive, and her own staff proved to be her Achilles’ heel.

“What is clear from the internal documents is that Clinton’s loss derived not from any specific decision she made but rather from the preponderance of the many she did not make.”
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—The famous 3 a.m. ad, written by Penn and approved by Hillary Clinton almost didn’t run: “In the days leading up to Ohio and Texas, the campaign kept arguing over whether to air the [3 a.m.] ad. With the deadline looming, Bill Clinton, speaking from a cell phone as his plane sat on a runway, led a conference call on Thursday, February 28, in which he had both sides present their case. As his plane was about to lift off, it was Bill Clinton – not Hillary – who issued the decisive order: ‘Let’s go with it.’ ”
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V

ViperVisor

Member
Lv99 Slacker said:
WTF. On C-SPAN, I'm watching a Young American student conference that's focused purely on...the politics of Michelle Obama. It's just starting.
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YAF.org is a mutha fuckin joke.

Some dickface for them was on the other day. Looked like a graying 35yo. Made some joke about liberals lacking physical ability when they missed the drive by pie attack on Coulter.
Got lots of chuckles. But when you look at the crowd I didn't see 1 dude who I couldn't beat down in a fight. They are a pathetic bunch.

xla3h2.jpg
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
lol at W just barely stopping himself from standing up with a fist pump after a LeBron James jam vs. China, then looking around sheepishly.
 
K

Kyuuketsu_Night

Member
ViperVisor said:
YAF.org is a mutha fuckin joke.

Some dickface for them was on the other day. Looked like a graying 35yo. Made some joke about liberals lacking physical ability when they missed the drive by pie attack on Coulter.
Got lots of chuckles. But when you look at the crowd I didn't see 1 dude who I couldn't beat down in a fight. They are a pathetic bunch.

xla3h2.jpg
Click to expand...

*throws up*
 
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