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[speculawyer]

McCain has an op-ed in that left-loon rag, the WSJ, today:

We Are All Georgians

McCain: I want the cold war back! That cold war was gold for us cons. This Islamo-fascist stuff isn't working too well . . . I'm never sure which guys over there are on our side. Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Wahabi, Pashtun, Turk, Persian, Arab, etc. . . . It's too God-damn confusing!

 

[TDG]

There is little evidence that the VP helps a candidate that much in their own region.

Region, no. State, absolutely. It would be one thing if Bayh was simply some government guy from Indiana, but he's really popular there. The last three elections in Indiana he's been in (governor, senate, senate) he's all won by more than 20%. If he's campaigning in Indiana quite a bit, he'll likely make Indiana an Obama state.

The #1 Rule for the VP: Do no harm to thy candidate

And Biden, being someone who's no stranger to making gaffes by saying things he shouldn't, and being a liberal, is far more likely to harm Obama than Bayh is.

 

[Frank the Great]

I love how we're debating between Biden, Bayh, and Clark.

What a great selection of VP candidates.

 

[snacknuts]

If that is true, then I'm OK with Bayh. But other than that, the guy just does not resonate. Hardly anyone outside of Indiana has ever heard of the guy. If he is picked, most people with say "Who?"

But again, if he can really deliver Indiana, that is enough.

I live in Indiana and I'm not sure when we got to be that important in presidential elections. Are we a big swing state all of a sudden?

 

[Cheebs]

I love how we're debating between Biden, Bayh, and Clark.

What a great selection of VP candidates.

Bayh is better than gaf gives him credit for.

Clark really isn't part of the debate except at GAF though. It's just a silly wish of some gaffers.

 

[Gaborn]

I doubt it. But regardless that doesn't really kill my point, people won't vote for a VP but they will vote against one

The #1 Rule for the VP: Do no harm to thy candidate

Well, I'm not sure he WOULD have beaten Nixon, but he certainly would've given himself a chance. You're right though, the first rule of VP picking is don't harm the candidate, the wrong choice can be perceived (as Eagleton was) as a mistake in a candidate's judgement, but the right choice is often at best neutral.

 

[Frank the Great]

Clark really isn't part of the debate except at GAF though. It's just a silly wish of some gaffers.

Either way, the point still stands.

By the way, is Richardson really out of the running? It would seem that "Securing America's Future" would apply to him as well, considering all his FP experience.

I'm such a Richardson shill :-/

 

[Cheebs]

Either way, the point still stands.

By the way, is Richardson really out of the running? It would seem that "Securing America's Future" would apply to him as well, considering all his FP experience.

I'm such a Richardson shill :-/

He has too many womanizing problems to ever pass vetting.

 

[speculawyer]

I love how we're debating between Biden, Bayh, and Clark.

What a great selection of VP candidates.

Well, at least it gets discussed. No one cares about a McCain VP. Unless he picks some dark horse like Carli Fiorina or Condi Rice, no one cares.

Tom Ridge? ZZZzzzzz . . .

OK . . . Mitt Romney would be good for some laughs. Between the Flip/Flop 08 jokes and the magic underwear jokes, that could be fun.

 

[Frank the Great]

He has too many womanizing problems to ever pass vetting.

I hate American politics.

 

[HylianTom]

OK . . . Mitt Romney would be good for some laughs. Between the Flip/Flop 08 jokes and the magic underwear jokes, that could be fun.

Don't forget the dog-on-the-roof-of-the-car jokes..

 

[speculawyer]

I live in Indiana and I'm not sure when we got to be that important in presidential elections. Are we a big swing state all of a sudden?

Well . . . I guess with Bayh, you could be a swing state.

 

[tanod]

Obama and Clinton camps have agreed to place HRC's name in nomination of the roll-call vote.

firstread

 

[grandjedi6]

I don't get the thread title

 

[TDG]

Well . . . I guess with Bayh, you could be a swing state.

Well, let's remember that Obama is going after more than just the traditional swing states.

And it's not like polls show Indiana as a McCain lock. The latest SurveyUSA (not that SUSA is very reliable) poll in Indiana had Obama up 48-47 in Indiana.

I don't get the thread title

Me niether.

 

[Rur0ni]

Bayh is trading fairly well. Clark and Biden trading fairly evenly, with a Biden bump recently (given the news)

 

[Clipjoint]

I'm assuming it means spoil the VP pick announcement.

 

[The Librarian]

Me niether.

Vice-president?

 

[numble]

It doesn't help that Obama is in Hawaii through friday and nothing big ever is annouced on weekends. The EARLIEST would be monday. But I suspect he'll wait till the olympics are over.

The Olympics are over on August 24.

 

[HylianTom]

I'm assuming it means spoil the VP pick announcement.

Either that, or spoil the outcome of the election?

 

[capslock]

Anyone else think McCain will be pretty much forced to choose a woman if Obama does as well? Obama + Woman VP = unbeatable...who picks first anyway?

 

[HylianTom]

Anyone else think McCain will be pretty much forced to choose a woman if Obama does as well? Obama + Woman VP = unbeatable...who picks first anyway?

McCain has the option of choosing last, as his party's convention is second. He has the luxury of waiting to react to Obama's choice.

 

[bob_arctor]

McCain: I want the cold war back! That cold war was gold for us cons. This Islamo-fascist stuff isn't working too well . . . I'm never sure which guys over there are on our side. Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Wahabi, Pashtun, Turk, Persian, Arab, etc. . . . It's too God-damn confusing!

More amazing to me is that his blatant shilling for the sake of "political gain" (I doubt this does anything for him personally) is less a problem than the obvious quid pro quo relationship considering Randy Scheunemann and his role as FP guru/Georgian lobbyist.

Any words by McCain on this issue should be accompanied by giant grains of salt.

I think what is most important, first and foremost, is to have Western unity in the face of the latest Russian undermining of Georgian sovereignty. Traditionally, we have seen that the Russians will push and push until they meet opposition. And what they need to understand is that all European countries and the United States are united in opposing the latest Russian moves, which is really the culmination of years of what they've been doing, undermining Georgian sovereignty.

 

[RubxQub]

I live in Indiana and I'm not sure when we got to be that important in presidential elections. Are we a big swing state all of a sudden?

Indiana is ranked 11th on the tipping point state chart @ 4%. Not really a massive shift, but helpful none the less.

With Virginia ranked 4th @ 18%, it wouldn't really make sense to target someone like Bayh as much as it would to target Warner (who happens to be keynoting the DNC).

Bayh's impact would be very minimal is chosen.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

I love how we're debating between Biden, Bayh, and Clark.

What a great selection of VP candidates.

ZZZzzzzz . . .

 

[Mumei]

If that is true, then I'm OK with Bayh. But other than that, the guy just does not resonate. Hardly anyone outside of Indiana has ever heard of the guy. If he is picked, most people with say "Who?"

But again, if he can really deliver Indiana, that is enough.

Bayh ended his terms as Governor with nearly 80% approval ratings, and has had approval ratings in the mid-60s for most of his tenure as a Senator. That said, I'm not sure how strong that support actually is.

 

[TDG]

ZZZzzzzz . . .

Why did you fall asleep? Are you listening to Sebelius deliver a speech?

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Why did you fall asleep? Are you listening to Sebelius deliver a speech?

Don't hate.

 

[Cheebs]

Why did you fall asleep? Are you listening to Sebelius deliver a speech?

He must have a fetish for old grandma's, ones who put people to sleep with their monotone voices. Too bad she won't be VP. Her crowds of 15 old ladies from the old persons home would make McCain's rallies seem young and packed by comparison!

Cure for insomnia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY4rgdPjlTE

Perhaps the worst state of the union response I ever saw in my life. She even looked like she was falling asleep.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

She'll be VP. I have inside information.

 

[Cheebs]

She'll be VP. I have inside information.

these two make a better couple:

 

[RubxQub]

She'll be VP. I have inside information.

http://www.kansasprairie.net/kansasprairieblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/copy-of-1-30_obama_3_t290-small.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
HOLY SHIT

fap fap fap
FAP FAP FAP
FAP FAP FAP
[b]FAP FAP FAP
[u]FAP FAP FAP
FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP
................SKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET[/u][/b]

 

[Gremmie4]

He must have a fetish for old grandma's, ones who put people to sleep with their monotone voices. Too bad she won't be VP. Her crowds of 15 old ladies from the old persons home would make McCain's rallies seem young and packed by comparison!

Cure for insomnia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY4rgdPjlTE

Perhaps the worst state of the union response I ever saw in my life. She even looked like she was falling asleep.

So would you not be happy with Obama picking someone that is "boring" and puts people to sleep? Do you think it is better for Obama to pick someone (Biden, Bayh) that completely undercuts his entire foreign policy argument?

 

[The Librarian]

She'll be VP. I have inside information.

Wow, DEM.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

So would you not be happy with Obama picking someone that is "boring" and puts people to sleep? Do you think it is better for Obama to pick someone (Biden, Bayh) that completely undercuts Obama's entire foreign policy argument?

Thank you.

All these douche bags only care about are poll numbers... at the end of the day we'll be voting for obama not vice president. VPs never affect the outcome of an election

 

[Gaborn]

So would you not be happy with Obama picking someone that is "boring" and puts people to sleep? Do you think it is better for Obama to pick someone (Biden, Bayh) that completely undercuts his entire foreign policy argument?

I think the problem with Biden from a political standpoint is he tarnishes Obama's argument that he's a political outsider seeking to change the system. Biden's been around a LONG time and has been very integral to much of the workings of the Senate, but for a campaign centered around the concept of "change" that's less of a benefit than it would be for a different candidate with a different message.

 

[bob_arctor]

Obama Campaign Mapping Out Aggressive Counter-Attack Against Swift-Boating

In stark contrast with the Kerry campaign in 2004, the Obama campaign is mapping out an aggressive counter-attack against the new Swift-Boat-Vet style book targeting Obama -- including plans to dig more deeply into the author's past statements, plans for increased surrogate action against the book, and stepped up pressure on high-level media executives to let the Obama team have air time to rebut the charges.

Can you imagine if the Obama campaign was run by pricks like the McCain camp and decided to really lay down the hammer of negativity, bullshit and lies? Shit would scorch the entire galaxy.

 

[TDG]

Do you think it is better for Obama to pick someone (Biden, Bayh) that completely undercuts his entire foreign policy argument?

If that person is more likely to help Obama win, absolutely.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Obama Campaign Mapping Out Aggressive Counter-Attack Against Swift-Boating

Can you imagine if the Obama campaign was run by pricks like the McCain camp and decided to really lay down the hammer of negativity, bullshit and lies? Shit would scorch the entire galaxy.

In 2004, when the Swift Boat Vets first targeted Kerry, a debate erupted within his camp over whether it was better to ignore the book or to immediately strike back against it and bring it more attention. Early on, Kerry advisers chose the former path.

Obama advisers have concluded, however, that there's little to no chance that ignoring the book will deprive it of media oxygen. They are trying to strike the right balance, going on the offensive against the book without sparking even more media attention than it's getting already.

To that end, much of the pushback against the book is being done behind the scenes, through the dissemination of controversial quotes from Corsi's past and the planned extensive fact check.

Will it be enough? With Corsi already on record saying that he plans to collaborate with conservative groups to run ads, we'll soon find out.

Good strategy, to try and balance out the coverage rather than ignore or amplify it.

As to the last line - that's why Obama opted out of public financing. We all knew this was coming.

 

[The Librarian]

Good strategy, to try and balance out the coverage rather than ignore or amplify it.

As to the last line - that's why Obama opted out of public financing. We all knew this was coming.

... The book? What is that?

 

[Gaborn]

... The book? What is that?

Don't you know? The right wing fascist media has been covering it non stop (ok, barely at all)

 

[The Librarian]

Don't you know? The right wing fascist media has been covering it non stop (ok, barely at all)

No. This is the first election I've paid close attention to (which is understandable, considering the last one was when I was twelve).

 

[bob_arctor]

This Media Matters guy really takes Corsi apart:

http://mediamatters.org/embed/larryking-20080813-corsi

... The book? What is that?

One written by a fat, lying, bigoted asshole who co-wrote the book about Kerry "Unfit For Command".

 

[Cheebs]

No. This is the first election I've paid close attention to (which is understandable, considering the last one was when I was twelve).

Wow you are really only 16? That is crazy.

If this is your first election knowing what is happening you should go read some books on past elections. 60, 68 (dem primary moreso than the general), 80, 92, and 00 are by far the most interesting in terms of recent elections.

 

[GhaleonEB]

... The book? What is that?

Follow the link.

 

[NullPointer]

Well I hope the Obama team's strategy is to actually rebut the points/innuendo brought up in the book rather than just trying to assassinate the man's character.

I mean, sure, bring up his past insanity and his overly biased bedfellows, but only as a warm up. By attacking the man and not his supposed "facts", they just add fuel to the fire of conservative paranoia.

On this note I think Anderson Cooper 360 did a pretty good job the other night. They brought up a couple of points in the book that were easily disproved and spelled it out simply.

But seriously, never put that Media Matters guy on air ever again. He did more damage than good.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I sell that book at Borders almost 5 times a day.

Fuck that shit.

 

[Gremmie4]

If that person is more likely to help Obama win, absolutely.

But that's my point. I think Biden or Bayh will hurt Obama a lot more than Sebelius. Obama is already running behind McCain on foreign policy issues, and we all know the republicans will hit Obama hard with either Biden's or Bayh's Iraq votes, and it takes away Obama's talking point about using good judgment in foreign policy. Americans are stupid, they will believe whatever stupid ads are run, and thus Obama will lose the foreign policy argument badly. Will it cost him the election? I don't think so. I have a firm belief that Obama has this thing in the bag unless he majorly screws up.

Someone stated earlier in this thread that VP's should not hurt the candidate, and both Biden or Bayh do hurt Obama. Sebelius doesn't hurt Obama at all, unless of course you think that giving one boring speech hurts more than a flawed Iraq vote does.

 

[numble]

I sell that book at Borders almost 5 times a day.

Fuck that shit.

What state is the Borders in? And is it selling more than pro-Obama/anti-McCain books?

 

[Macam]

But that's my point. I think Biden or Bayh will hurt Obama a lot more than Sebelius. Obama is already running behind McCain on foreign policy issues, and we all know the republicans will hit Obama hard with either Biden's or Bayh's Iraq votes, etc etc.

Someone stated earlier in this thread that VP's should not hurt the candidate, and both Biden or Bayh do hurt Obama. Sebelius doesn't hurt Obama at all, unless of course you think that giving one boring speech hurts more than a flawed Iraq vote does.

Let me spare you some future agony: It doesn't matter who Obama picks, McCain, the Republicans, and, to a far lesser degree, some of Obama's more ardent supporters are all going to find fault with his VP pick and exploit it as a sign of weakness.