Support NeoGAF

[Karma Kramer]

Let me spare you some future agony: It doesn't matter who Obama picks, McCain, the Republicans, and, to a far lesser degree, some of Obama's more ardent supporters are all going to find fault with his VP pick and exploit it as a sign of weakness.

I don't see what they could possibly exploit with Clark. Thats why I think he is so good... he's basically McCain, but awesome and a democrat.

 

[Tamanon]

What state is the Borders in? And is it selling more than pro-Obama/anti-McCain books?

I assume it would, the last pro-Obama book was a couple months ago, last anti-McCain book even moreso.

 

[scorcho]

I don't see what they could possibly exploit with Clark. Thats why I think he is so good... he's basically McCain, but awesome and a democrat.

his tenure at NATO was pretty unspectacular and he wasn't popular with rank and file members at the Pentagon, for starters.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/11/17/031117fa_fact

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

What state is the Borders in? And is it selling more than pro-Obama/anti-McCain books?

Ohio. Well we sell a shiiiiiiit load of Obama books, for AND against. We might sell a McCain book once a week :lol .

We've been selling Obama Nation a lot recently, but we've steadily sold Obama's own books and his pro-books since February. It's a book store, so naturally we get a more liberal crowd. But it is Ohio, so it's not THAT liberal.

I would always ring people out near the Presidential playing cards and almost all the old people would pick up Obama's pack and grimace. "What's that asshole gonna do for this country meh meh roar moo me...zzzzzzz."

 

[TDG]

But that's my point. I think Biden or Bayh will hurt Obama a lot more than Sebelius. Obama is already running behind McCain on foreign policy issues, and we all know the republicans will hit Obama hard with either Biden's or Bayh's Iraq votes, and it takes away Obama's talking point about using good judgment in foreign policy. Americans are stupid, they will believe whatever stupid ads are run, and thus Obama will lose the foreign policy argument badly. Will it cost him the election? I don't think so. I have a firm belief that Obama has this thing in the bag unless he majorly screws up.

Someone stated earlier in this thread that VP's should not hurt the candidate, and both Biden or Bayh do hurt Obama. Sebelius doesn't hurt Obama at all, unless of course you think that giving one boring speech hurts more than a flawed Iraq vote does.

I would like to have a VP candidate that actually brings something to the ticket, and Sebelius doesn't. The only effect that I can see her having is boring viewers of the VP debate to sleep, and pissing off a bunch of Hillary supporters.

I honestly don't buy this argument that republicans are going to attack Obama based on his Iraq war vote. For one thing, why would they even want to bring that up, considering McCain voted for it two. For another, who is going to not support Obama based on something his running mate did. And lastly, why do some of you have this goofy idea that the repubs will waste time attacking Obama's running mate? Can you remember any election where attack ads were aired targeting the running mate?

 

[The Librarian]

Wow you are really only 16? That is crazy.

How so?

Good strategy, to try and balance out the coverage rather than ignore or amplify it.

Ghal's right.

Obama advisers say that whenever they hear that Corsi has been booked for an appearance on a network program, they are quickly contacting the program's producers to rebut the book's charges in phone conversations and giving them a whole run-down of past Corsi quotes that are controversial.

Hopefully the campaign keeps this up.

 

[Karma Kramer]

his tenure at NATO was pretty unspectacular and he wasn't popular with rank and file members at the Pentagon, for starters.

the great thing about this though, is it opens up McCains record to attack. No way could Obama attack McCain on similar things in the military etc... unless they start attacking his VP in a similar manner.

 

[numble]

I assume it would, the last pro-Obama book was a couple months ago, last anti-McCain book even moreso.

Good thing Obama's releasing a new book on September 9.

 

[Gremmie4]

Let me spare you some future agony: It doesn't matter who Obama picks, McCain, the Republicans, and, to a far lesser degree, some of Obama's more ardent supporters are all going to find fault with his VP pick and exploit it as a sign of weakness.

I completely understand that. However, with Biden and Bayh, what is Obama supposed to say to combat those attacks, that his pick for VP made a mistake voting for the war and showed poor judgment? And he wants that person who showed poor judgment to be president in case something happens to him? That's not a sign of weakness, that is a weakness.

With Sebelius, and even Clark, all the attacks the republicans come up with should be easy to dispel, and will not hurt Obama at all.

I would like to have a VP candidate that actually brings something to the ticket, and Sebelius doesn't. The only effect that I can see her having is boring viewers of the VP debate to sleep, and pissing off a bunch of Hillary supporters.

I honestly don't buy this argument that republicans are going to attack Obama based on his Iraq war vote. For one thing, why would they even want to bring that up, considering McCain voted for it two. For another, who is going to not support Obama based on something his running mate did. And lastly, why do some of you have this goofy idea that the repubs will waste time attacking Obama's running mate? Can you remember any election where attack ads were aired targeting the running mate?

I agree that Sebelius doesn't add much to the ticket, but she doesn't take away from it either. And I don't buy that pissing off Hillary supporters. The few loonies who haven't come over to Obama's side likely never will anyway, and Sebelius won't drive away people who have.

When has McCain not wanted to voice his support for the Iraq war? Why would he care if they bring up the fact that he too voted for the war? He still supports the war, so he must still think it was a good idea. And again, they are not really going to be attacking the VP as much as they will be attacking Obama for choosing someone who showed poor judgment on Iraq, even though he has spent the last 18 months railing against a war "that should have never have been authorized in the first place".

 

[Cheebs]

the great thing about this though, is it opens up McCains record to attack. No way could Obama attack McCain on similar things in the military etc... unless they start attacking his VP in a similar manner.

Does it even matter? I dont think ANYONE has ever speculated on him that has any sort of sources or connections. I don't see why you are being so forceful about someone who hasn't even gotten a single mention ever as a possibilty ANYWHERE that may have any idea. Like I said, at least Selebius had some buzz back in June. Clark never has.


I can start speculating that he'll pick Senator Dick Durbin, it makes just as much sense. You are wasting waaaay too much time on something that won't happen.

 

[TDG]

With Sebelius, and even Clark, all the attacks the republicans come up with should be easy to dispel, and will not hurt Obama at all.

Oh please, as if.

Judging by the arguements some of you are coming up with against Biden/Bayh, Obama should just pick a slab of concrete as his running mate, since it would be impervious to any republican attack.

 

[RubxQub]

You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Does it even matter? I dont think ANYONE has ever speculated on him that has any sort of sources or connections. I don't see why you are being so forceful about someone who hasn't even gotten a single mention ever as a possibilty ANYWHERE that may have any idea. Like I said, at least Selebius had some buzz back in June. Clark never has.

He was talked about two days ago on the Rachel Maddow show as someone heavily considered and on the short list.

Just because the main cable shows don't discuss him, doesn't mean shit.

Also, we know that the VP is going to be strong on FP... can you give me more names besides Biden that fit this bill?

In my mind besides Biden, Clark would be the next pick possibly.

 

[Cheebs]

Oh please, as if.

Judging by the arguements some of you are coming up with against Biden/Bayh, Obama should just pick a slab of concrete as his running mate, since it would be impervious to any republican attack.

Don't worry about it, this is a GAF/liberal blogger only thing. They will shut up in a week and get over their fantasies they made up in their head.

He was talked about two days ago on the Rachel Maddow show as someone heavily considered and on the short list.

Just because the main cable shows don't discuss him, doesn't mean shit.

Also, we know that the VP is going to be strong on FP... can you give me more names besides Biden that fit this bill?

In my mind besides Biden, Clark would be the next pick possibly.

I was talking about NEWSPAPERS, the real news with real sources.

You can dream it but it is based on NOTHING. It's an idea gaffers made up.


GOD I am just going to be glad for this to be over and people can stop making up their own dream picks everyday.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Don't worry about it, this is a GAF/liberal blogger only thing. They will shut up in a week and get over their fantasies they made up in their head.

Man you really love acting like you know so much more than everyone else don't you?

 

[Verano]

Man you really love acting like you know so much more than everyone else don't you?

OMG!
:lol :lol

 

[Karma Kramer]

I was talking about NEWSPAPERS, the real news with real sources.

You can dream it but it is based on NOTHING. It's an idea gaffers made up.

GOD I am just going to be glad for this to be over and people can stop making up their own dream picks everyday.

So I take it you don't know of many other FP Vice Presidential Candidates that would be more likely then Biden or Clark...?

 

[Gaborn]

Let me spare you some future agony: It doesn't matter who Obama picks, McCain, the Republicans, and, to a far lesser degree, some of Obama's more ardent supporters are all going to find fault with his VP pick and exploit it as a sign of weakness.

Every candidate is going to have flaws. The benefit of these discussions is to hash out who Poligaf, whether libertarians, Democrats, Republicans, or whatever category you may identify as feels is the STRONGEST of the choices. That is, who can overcome whatever perceived weakness they have with the electorate. For example, though I'm not an Obama fan I think Bayh is stronger as a candidate than Biden because Bayh has a better chance of portraying the outsider with some experience role Obama needs in my opinion. At the same time I think Obama would benefit from a governor (whether Sebelius or Kaine or some other choice) more than a Senator such as Bayh because there's less likely to be the foreign policy conflict Bayh has.

 

[Cheebs]

Man you really love acting like you know so much more than everyone else don't you?

I never made a speculation on who it is. Not me once today. I list the short list that is backed up by multiple sources.

Time said the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chicago Tribune says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Wash Post says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chuck Todd says the short list was: Bayh, Biden Kaine.


This list has multiple well documented trust sources. Thus its quite a bit different than an idea GAF mad up on their own.

And then this week 3/4 of those said Kaine is off the list its Biden and Bayh in the finals.


Find me ONE SOURCE that isn a gaffer or some random blogger that claims Clark is being vetted/discussed by the Obama campaign and I'lll shut up about him. JUST ONE from a real journalist. I can find you DOZENS for those 3, not one for Clark.

 

[Revengeance]

You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.

:lol No one would ask that in a debate though. Too much of a personal attack. Should definitely be asked, but not necessarily in a debate.

I'm back in this thread, lurking full time. Too much PoliGAF makes me obsess over politics... and I'm ready to do that again.

 

[RubxQub]

I never made a speculation on who it is. Not me once today. I list the short list that is backed up by multiple sources.

Time said the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chicago Tribune says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Wash Post says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chuck Todd says the short list was: Bayh, Biden Kaine.


This list has multiple well documented trust sources. Thus its quite a bit different than an idea GAF mad up on their own.

Sounds like everyone's copying Chuck Todd (who wouldn't), but sadly Chuck is incorrect.

It will be...are you god damned ready....Ron...fucking...Paul

Obama's socialized healthcare plan will be to send everyone to Paul's medical office and have Paul personally fix everyone for free, 24/7. Our system will be comparable to other countries that have socialized healthcare, as you will have to wait awhile to get your service, but it will be free, so shut the fuck up.

Obama/Paul will go down in history as the greatest duo ever.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I never made a speculation on who it is. Not me once today. I list the short list that is backed up by multiple sources.

Time said the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chicago Tribune says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Wash Post says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chuck Todd says the short list was: Bayh, Biden Kaine.

This list has multiple well documented trust sources. Thus its quite a bit different than an idea GAF mad up on their own.

But with the recent news that on the night of the Vice Presidential Speech at the convention the theme is going to be "securing america" and its going to be about our veterans.

I bet with this new knowledge... some of those sources would change a few names on that list.

 

[APF]

You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.

People like you wanting questions like this are the reason we in the US have a crappy television news media.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

She'll be VP. I have inside information.

America can only be saved if this is true.

 

[Amir0x]

Cheebs is on the "I dont think Clarks is really on the short list" team?

Guess that means Clark is the new VP. Goddamn

 

[Cheebs]

Sounds like everyone's copying Chuck Todd (who wouldn't), but sadly Chuck is incorrect.

It will be...are you god damned ready....Ron...fucking...Paul

Obama's socialized healthcare plan will be to send everyone to Paul's medical office and have Paul personally fix everyone for free, 24/7. Our system will be comparable to other countries that have socialized healthcare, as you will have to wait awhile to get your service, but it will be free, so shut the fuck up.

Obama/Paul will go down in history as the greatest duo ever.

George W. Bush > Ron Paul though, and that ain't a compliment to Bush. I rather have 4 more years of Dubya than a right-wing blowhard like Paul near the white house.

Cheebs is on the "I dont think Clarks is really on the short list" team?

Guess that means he's Clark is the new VP. Goddamn

I've refused today to personally speculate since I jinx things, I just list OTHER peoples speculations instead.

But with the recent news that on the night of the Vice Presidential Speech at the convention the theme is going to be "securing america" and its going to be about our veterans.

I bet with this new knowledge... some of those sources would change a few names on that list.

Too bad the chicago tribune reported THIS MORNING that the field has narrowed to Bayh and Biden with Biden the most likely.

 

[Gremmie4]

I never made a speculation on who it is. Not me once today. I list the short list that is backed up by multiple sources.

Time said the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chicago Tribune says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Wash Post says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chuck Todd says the short list was: Bayh, Biden Kaine.


This list has multiple well documented trust sources. Thus its quite a bit different than an idea GAF mad up on their own.

And then this week 3/4 of those said Kaine is off the list its Biden and Bayh in the finals.


Find me ONE SOURCE that isn a gaffer or some random blogger that claims Clark is being vetted/discussed by the Obama campaign and I'lll shut up about him. JUST ONE from a real journalist. I can find you DOZENS for those 3, not one for Clark.

Here's another thought I've been having lately. Anybody else think that Obama may be floating these names to "sources" that will leak them, so that when he does pick his VP it would be more of a surprise? It just feels to me like the whole Biden, Bayh, Kaine thing seems like a smokescreen to conceal who they are really going to pick.

 

[bob_arctor]

You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.

No, no. That would not be the Wright thing to so.

 

[Karma Kramer]

I never made a speculation on who it is. Not me once today. I list the short list that is backed up by multiple sources.

Time said the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chicago Tribune says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Wash Post says the short list was: Bayh, Biden, Kaine
Chuck Todd says the short list was: Bayh, Biden Kaine.


This list has multiple well documented trust sources. Thus its quite a bit different than an idea GAF mad up on their own.

And then this week 3/4 of those said Kaine is off the list its Biden and Bayh in the finals.


Find me ONE SOURCE that isn a gaffer or some random blogger that claims Clark is being vetted/discussed by the Obama campaign and I'lll shut up about him. JUST ONE from a real journalist. I can find you DOZENS for those 3, not one for Clark.

http://blogs.forbes.com/trailwatch/2008/08/obamas-vice-pre.html

Three notable dark horse candidates: Gen. Wesley Clark, Gov. Bill Richardson and Republican senator Chuck Hagel. Clark, a nominee whom I suggested back in December, likely ruined his chances a few months ago by attacking John McCain’s military leadership. Hagel’s party affiliation, his opposition to the Iraq war notwithstanding, could keep a number of Obama’s supporters from the left at bay, offsetting any potential gain from Republican centrists. Richardson is an interesting choice: he has executive and foreign relations experience; he’s from a region (the Southwest) that the Obama camp is aggressively pursuing; and he’s Latino, representing a voting bloc that will likely be crucial in November.

--Paul M. Murdock

Clark has fallen off the screen because of his comments... you are right when you say he isn't being actively discussed... But the media could be seriously wrong here... and Obama might not have found Clark's comments as detrimental to his chances as journalists have.

 

[Cheebs]

http://blogs.forbes.com/trailwatch/2008/08/obamas-vice-pre.html

That his pure opinion though. ALl those I listed above sourced insiders from the Obama campaign. Opinions mean jack shit in this, which is why I refuse to make a prediction personally on who it will be, I am relying ONLY on Obama campaign leaks.

Clark has fallen off the screen because of his comments... you are right when you say he isn't being actively discussed... But the media could be seriously wrong here... and Obama might not have found Clark's comments as detrimental to his chances as journalists have.

You dont find it a bit strange we've had multiple leaks about the so called big 3 (and even gaf-beloved candidates like Selebius) but never Clark? Not one iota.?

 

[RubxQub]

People like you wanting questions like this are the reason we in the US have a crappy television news media.

Baiting me, eh?! This is a new one.

1. Not serious, but I think it's funny how McCain is getting a Bayh on this fact. If this were true of Obama, no doubt his run would be over.

b. With Obama getting panned in his previous debates, in the pursuit of equal time in the press, McCain should have no problems answering this "thoroughly vetted" issue.

III. Obama rules, McCain drools, APF smells like stool

 

[Karma Kramer]

That his pure opinion though. ALl those I listed above sourced insiders from the Obama campaign. Opinions mean jack shit in this, which is why I refuse to make a prediction personally on who it will be, I am relying ONLY on Obama campaign leaks.

Alright... well we will just have to wait and see then.

 

[Gaborn]

George W. Bush > Ron Paul though, and that ain't a compliment to Bush. I rather have 4 more years of Dubya than a right-wing blowhard like Paul near the white house.

:lol :lol :lol :lol I love Mr. Always Wrong.

 

[Bishman]

Ok can someone give me a run down on Kathleen Sebelius and Wes Clark. Pro and Con of each candidate.

Who does everyone think will help Obama more as a VP?

 

[kkaabboomm]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12537.html

John McCain on Thursday got some welcome ammunition in his defense against Democratic charges that he violated campaign finance law. But he’s not out of the woods yet.

The Federal Election Commission released a draft opinion asserting that McCain, the presumptive Republican candidate, did not violate the provisions of the primary election public funding system.

McCain’s Democratic opponent Barack Obama had alleged that McCain broke the rules, an accusation Democrats have wielded often as part of an effort to question McCain’s commitment to campaign finance reform.

The Democratic National Committee in February filed a complaint with the commission asserting that McCain ran afoul of the system by qualifying for its funds, using the possibility of receiving them to secure a loan, but then withdrawing from the system and exceeding its spending limits.

The commission’s lawyers, however, rejected that reasoning.

Their draft opinion concludes that the system allows candidates to withdraw unless they actually receive the funds or pledge them as collateral for a loan. McCain didn’t do either, the lawyers wrote, and they recommended the six-member commission vote to allow McCain to withdraw.

The vote is scheduled for the commission’s Aug. 21 meeting.

But the lawyers also concluded in a separate opinion that McCain needs an affirmative vote of four commissioners to withdraw from the program, which McCain had asserted was unnecessary.

That could set the stage for the first real partisan FEC battle since a new commission was confirmed this summer, since the commission is comprised by statute of three Republican members and three Democrats.

If Republicans got the sense they couldn’t attract a single Democratic vote to approve the lawyer’s recommendation releasing McCain from the system, however, they could vote against the lawyer’s recommendation that McCain needs four votes to withdraw, killing that proposal and possibly allowing McCain to withdraw unilaterally.

horray for the FEC having a working quorum. so it seems that the loan issue will be dealt with (in mccain's favor) but the unilaterally withdrawing from the primary funds program is not allowed and thus he could be up shit's creek on that one, should the committee accept the lawyers recommendations. should make for an interesting FEC meeting in late august

 

[Cheebs]

:lol :lol :lol :lol I love Mr. Always Wrong.

Bush has a more liberal stance on the economy, guns, central government power, states rights, the supreme court, health care, and even abortion than Ron Paul

Makes sense why I prefer Bush. Only place Paul is more in line with my liberal viewpoints is FP and drugs, everything else Bush is more liberal.

 

[TDG]

Who does everyone think will help Obama more as a VP?

Bayh.

 

[Gaborn]

Bush has a more liberal stance on the economy, guns, central government power, states rights, the supreme court, health care, and even abortion than Ron Paul

Makes sense why I prefer Bush. Only place Paul is more in line with my liberal viewpoints is FP and drugs, everything else Bush is more liberal.

You forgot education (he did hammer out an agreement with Teddy Kennedy afterall)

 

[Cheebs]

Ok can someone give me a run down on Kathleen Sebelius and Wes Clark. Pro and Con of each candidate.

Who does everyone think will help Obama more as a VP?

vs

Evan Bayh obviously would help the most but I am eh about him personally due to his record, but he'd help obama get elected by far.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Why is Bayh so appealing? I get nothing but emptiness from him.

 

[Cheebs]

Why is Bayh so appealing? I get nothing but emptiness from him.

Exactly. He sucks but would lock up Indiana. Bayh is a God in that state, most popular politician there in easily 50+ years.

 

[TDG]

I get nothing but emptiness from him.

Come again?

 

[APF]

Here's another thought I've been having lately. Anybody else think that Obama may be floating these names to "sources" that will leak them, so that when he does pick his VP it would be more of a surprise? It just feels to me like the whole Biden, Bayh, Kaine thing seems like a smokescreen to conceal who they are really going to pick.

I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.


Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.

 

[DoomGyver]

Bayh FTMFW!

Yes I live in Indiana, and I would LOVE for IN to go Dem this time around.

 

[Revengeance]

Bush has a more liberal stance on the economy, guns, central government power, states rights, the supreme court, health care, and even abortion than Ron Paul

Makes sense why I prefer Bush. Only place Paul is more in line with my liberal viewpoints is FP and drugs, everything else Bush is more liberal.

co signed. Paul is about as far from my own ideals as any candidate, ever.


And my VP pick is Richardson. I'm not a huge fan of any of the most mentioned three:
Bayh is too centrist (pro death penalty gtfo), Biden is a badass, and my favorite of the three, but too a little too politic. Kaine is too obvious, and yes, I'm finicky.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Exactly. He sucks but would lock up Indiana. Bayh is a God in that state, most popular politician there in easily 50+ years.

I guess its a good strategic move... but ... meh... I want someone who excites the ticket more.

 

[Cheebs]

I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.


Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.

Also that guys idea wouldn't fly for one reason.

You want the press to treat you well in an election. Purposely lying to them then going GOTCHA tends to work against that.`

 

[Frank the Great]

Dark horse!

 

[perryfarrell]

The gaffe machine Biden? Really? The GOP propaganda machine will have a field day with him.

 

[Father_Brain]

Why is Bayh so appealing? I get nothing but emptiness from him.

He'd please the DLC/Broder/Hiatt types who equate being staggeringly wrong on foreign policy with "strength."