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[RubxQub]

I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.

Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.

You're shtick is a two person tango, and I'm more often than not your dance partner. You lead and I follow.

You could go as far as to say that I complete you.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Ok can someone give me a run down on Kathleen Sebelius and Wes Clark. Pro and Con of each candidate.

Who does everyone think will help Obama more as a VP?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Wes_Clark_floats_ObamaSebelius.html

That's all the reasoning you'll need why Clark isn't it.

 

[Cheebs]

Why is everyone fighting with APF and vice-versa these days? He used to give damn good insight and predictions before it became him vs. PoliGAF (who cares if it wasn't pro-Obama), I want the APF who gave serious insight back.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Wes_Clark_floats_ObamaSebelius.html

That's all the reasoning you'll need why Clark isn't it.

Lookie here, we can agree on something related to the VP speculation!

 

[RubxQub]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Wes_Clark_floats_ObamaSebelius.html

That's all the reasoning you'll need why Clark isn't it.

Dude...that was back in June.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Dude...that was back in June.

And?

 

[Karma Kramer]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0608/Wes_Clark_floats_ObamaSebelius.html

That's all the reasoning you'll need why Clark isn't it.

... what?

:lol

 

[grandjedi6]

Bush has a more liberal stance on the economy, guns, central government power, states rights, the supreme court, health care, and even abortion than Ron Paul

Makes sense why I prefer Bush. Only place Paul is more in line with my liberal viewpoints is FP and drugs, everything else Bush is more liberal.

You would prefer an incompetent President who doesn't agree with your policies compared to a possibly competent President who also doesn't agree with you?

Exactly. He sucks but would lock up Indiana. Bayh is a God in that state, most popular politician there in easily 50+ years.

Since when does a VP "lock up" any state Cheebs?

 

[RubxQub]

And?

You don't think anything has changed since June?

 

[3rdman]

I'd still prefer Biden over all others...Charismatic and tough as nails...He's make a great bulldog to attack McCain with and look great doing it.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

You don't think anything has changed since June?

Has Wes Clark change his mind about wanting to be VP? No.

 

[Father_Brain]

You don't think anything has changed since June?

I certainly don't think enough has changed since June, unfortunately.

 

[Cheebs]

Since when does a VP "lock up" any state Cheebs?

Indiana is VERY close without Bayh, Bayh can add that 2-4% needed.

And how is Paul competent. I don't trust the competence of anyone who has a completely different worldview than me.

 

[TDG]

I want the APF who gave serious insight back.

He still does, he gave some good insight just recently about Bayh. It's just hard to carry in any discussion with APF in the thread because everyone freaks out and assumes he's attacking them, or something.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Has Wes Clark change his mind about wanting to be VP? No.

Oh this is rich.

Tell me more mr. mind reader.

 

[RubxQub]

Has Wes Clark change his mind about wanting to be VP? No.

Where in the article you posted does it say that Wesley Clark didn't want to be VP? All he said was that (at that time), she was the odd-on favorite to be VP.

I think you're reading a bit too much into that.

 

[Cheebs]

He still does, he gave some good insight just recently about Bayh. It's just hard to carry in any discussion with APF in the thread because everyone freaks out and assumes he's attacking them, or something.

PoliGAF when APF, PD, and ToxicAdam as the big 3 was the best. PD is too scared to even come to this thread anymore. I miss the smaller poligaf community.

 

[RubxQub]

Indiana is VERY close without Bayh, Bayh can add that 2-4% needed.

And how is Paul competent. I don't trust the competence of anyone who has a completely different worldview than me.

Why should he care about Indiana so much, that he'd base his VP selection around it?

As I said, on the Tipping Point State Chart, Indiana is ranked 11th @ 4%. Virginia (Mark Warner) makes much more sense to target than Indiana.

No offense, but Indiana is small potatoes.

 

[Incognito]

Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday

 

[Cheebs]

Why should he care about Indiana so much, that he'd base his VP selection around it?

As I said, on the Tipping Point State Chart, Indiana is ranked 11th @ 4%. Virginia (Mark Warner) makes much more sense to target than Indiana.

No offense, but Indiana is small potatoes.

Mark Warner said the Obama campaigned tried to vet him but Warner refused saying he wont be VP though.

 

[Skiptastic]

Yes I live in Indiana, and I would LOVE for IN to go Dem this time around.

It would be the first time since LBJ. Would at least make the IN election more interesting. And the resulting Senate seat replacement would also be interesting. I'm all for it!

 

[Cheebs]

Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday

You've gotten A LOT right this election, who do you think will be VP?

 

[Incognito]

Why are people worried about Indiana?

If Obama has won Indiana, then the election is most likely a landslide.

That's not to say I don't think Obama shouldn't try and win the state, but acting as if Indiana will change the map and push Obama over 270 to win is a bit foolish. Obama doesn't win Indiana if the EV is close; he does win it if there is a landslide.

 

[Macam]

I don't see what they could possibly exploit with Clark. Thats why I think he is so good... he's basically McCain, but awesome and a democrat.

Clark's military record doesn't grant him immunity from attacks. His Face the Nation comments alone are enough to give Republicans/McCain's camp sufficient material for a narrative. They'll exploit whatever narrative they want to put out.

I completely understand that. However, with Biden and Bayh, what is Obama supposed to say to combat those attacks, that his pick for VP made a mistake voting for the war and showed poor judgment? And he wants that person who showed poor judgment to be president in case something happens to him? That's not a sign of weakness, that is a weakness.

With Sebelius, and even Clark, all the attacks the republicans come up with should be easy to dispel, and will not hurt Obama at all.

The war issue will be a problem for hardcore Democrats and that's about it. That's not an issue McCain will want to revisit considering the war's unpopularity, especially over the rationale for going in; they're more focused on the "success" of the surge. There's nothing to say. The Democratic base will squirm and throw a ruckus and then vote for Obama anyway.

 

[Karma Kramer]

PoliGAF when APF, PD, and ToxicAdam as the big 3 was the best. PD is too scared to even come to this thread anymore. I miss the smaller poligaf community.

Yeah nothing beats the wonderful conversations held by those three... lol

Grandjedi, Tamanon, and RubxQub are far more insightful and entertaining in my opinion.

 

[RubxQub]

Mark Warner said the Obama campaigned tried to vet him but Warner refused saying he wont be VP though.

True, but again, Indiana matters so little in the big picture.

Picking a candidate from a more important state, or one that more properly aligns with Obama's viewpoints, would have a much bigger impact than just winning Indiana.

Obama can pick up Indiana without Bayh, as he's already polling close to or above McCain in that state.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday

Hmm... would this mean they are out of the running? I am confused.

 

[polyh3dron]

I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.


Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.

You know that's a famous Hopi proverb right? and he's pretty much saying that we as a country can make a change if we all decide to participate. It's basically an "Ask not what your country can do for you" type of message.

You make fun of that like Obama is effete or something and then when McCain says "In the 21st century, nations don't invade other nations" you let it slide.

 

[Cheebs]

Yeah nothing beats the wonderful conversations held by those three... lol

Grandjedi, Tanamon, and RubxQub are far more insightful and entertaining in my opinion.

Tanamon is one of the smartest IMO in here now but the random weird debates between APF and PD was the best. THE BEST

 

[Father_Brain]

Evan Bayh seems to have a convenient case of amnesia.

Birch Bayh was a darling of liberals, having been the chief architect of the Equal Rights Amendment, which failed to muster enough support to get ratified, and the 26th Amendment, which extended voting rights to 18-year-olds. He also championed Title IX, landmark legislation that included forcing equal opportunity in school athletics for females.

Evan Bayh, by contrast, voted in favor of a failed amendment that would have banned flag-burning and legislation that would have kicked Russia out of the Group of Eight leading economic nations. What upset many liberals the most was his vote to authorize the Iraq invasion and his subsequent co-chairmanship, with likely Republican presidential nominee John McCain, of the Iraq Liberation Committee, a neoconservative group that pushed hard for war.

Sen. Bayh now says he regrets his early support of the Iraq war and has no recollection of the committee. "I don't remember any meetings, any conversations, any anything," Sen. Bayh said in a telephone interview Tuesday. "Obviously my name was linked to it, but other than that there's nothing that can be said."

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Oh this is rich.

Tell me more mr. mind reader.

I have met Wes Clark a few times and am friends with a number of his former subordinates and I speak from personal experience when I say his problem is he is a pompous jerk. He is SURE he is smarter than you are and when you meet him he has a way of looking you up and down and if you aren't fawning over him he dismisses you like a crumb on his tie. Have you ever seen a story about any of his former soldiers saying they would support him? Ever seen stories about his "guys" and their loyalty? You won't. Now he has turned on all of us with his support to the idiots at Votevets.org and their stupid anti-surge campaign. Clark is a jerk. Thats the problem. No deeper than that.

 

[Incognito]

You've gotten A LOT right this election, who do you think will be VP?

I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama picks Clark, though. I do think the "short list" being bandied about by the media isn't the true short list, though. The Obama campaign has been adept at handling the media and I think the mention of Bayh, Biden, and Kaine have been carefully orchestrated to maximize support in the respective candidate state's and as a way to gauge support.

 

[Cheebs]

Hmm... would this mean they are out of the running? I am confused.

They are speaking Wed. the VP day, about foreign policy. The VP speech topic. If anything it means more likely than it was before that they'll be it.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Tanamon is one of the smartest IMO in here now but the random weird debates between APF and PD was the best. THE BEST

Maybe from an entertaining standpoint. But I learned very little from their insight.

Grandjedi is perhaps my favorite. A+ to you!

You are the master of graphs my friend

 

[grandjedi6]

Hmm... would this mean they are out of the running? I am confused.

Nah, its been emphasized several times that the convention selectors have no clue who the VP is (eventually every potential VP pick should get a speaking spot anyway).

 

[GhaleonEB]

Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday

I've posted this before, but I don't think reading from the conference schedule makes sense.

The convention schedulers and Obama's VP team are entirely separate and segregated.

The fact is that if the convention planners and schedulers in Denver know the identity of Obama's Vice Presidential selection, that means a lot of people know. And if a lot of people know, that means the media would know.

But the media doesn't know.

Ergo, not very many people do know. Perhaps only some combination of Obama, Axelrod, Plouffe, Gibbs, and the candidate him or herself, if the candidate has been chosen at all.

Ergo, we know nothing.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/bayhdenkabelius.html

The convention planning team and the veep team are entirely segregated for secrecy reasons. If the conference team knew, it would leak.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday

Sebelius will speak on Tuesday at the convention

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/08/sebelius_given_a_speaking_slot.php

 

[grandjedi6]

Maybe from an entertaining standpoint. But I learned very little from their insight.

Grandjedi is perhaps my favorite. A+ to you!

You are the master of graphs my friend

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh, this is rich. When challenged on the assertion that McCain's tax plan is better for middle class workers than Obama's - which is not true McCain's policy advisor conceded the point and then said.....

Obama’s campaign has said that their plan provides tax cuts to lower-income individuals, an assertion that the McCain campaign didn’t directly refute. In response, senior policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said that the key to John McCain’s middle-class proposals is allowing people employment opportunities, which in turn ensures that they have the opportunity to benefit from lower taxes.

“In order to pay taxes and have the opportunity to have lower taxes, you have to have a job, and John McCain’s plan is a plan which is dedicated to preserving the small businesses that have created 283,000 jobs in an economy that is struggling,” Holtz-Eakin said. “Barack Obama’s plans are plans which would damage small business in ways that are quite dramatic.”

So while Obama does cut taxes further, McCain won't be the job killing machine that Obama will be, thereby bringing people into the middle class to begin with.

Or something like that.

 

[maximum360]

Dark horse!

I'm been disappointed with Richardson as a surrogate. He's been very weak in articulating his points to interviewers and even goes after as just repeating campaign talking points when stumped. I expected more out of him. He may better better on the stump (hopefully) though.

 

[RubxQub]

Sebelius is going to pull a SquareEnix @ the MS E3 conference level meltdown after her speech.

"....and thus, I end my speech."

*applause*

*different speaker gets up to the mic*

*Sebelius runs back up to the mic*

"Oh...I had one more thing to show everyone."

*lights dim*

*Obama "Hands" ad plays...from a different camera angle then usual*

*The camera quickly pans left, and Sebelius is standing next to Obama in a "I'm your VP" T-shirt"*

*crowd goes wild*

....yep, just like that I'm sure.

 

[Tamanon]

Oh, this is rich. When challenged on the assertion that McCain's tax plan is better for middle class workers than Obama's - which is not true McCain's policy advisor conceded the point and then said.....


So while Obama does cut taxes further, McCain won't be the job killing machine that Obama will be, thereby bringing people into the middle class to begin with.

Or something like that.

Trickle-down is REALLY tough these days to push to lower and middle class.

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

Sebelius is going to pull a SquareEnix @ the MS E3 conference level meltdown after her speech.

"....and thus, I end my speech."

*applause*

*different speaker gets up to the mic*

*Sebelius runs back up to the mic*

"Oh...I had one more thing to show everyone."

*lights dim*

*Obama "Hands" ad plays...from a different camera angle then usual*

*The camera quickly pans left, and Sebelius is standing next to Obama in a "I'm your VP" T-shirt"*

*crowd goes wild*

....yep, just like that I'm sure.

I personally do not believe that the night people are speaking is going to indicate anything one way or another. Not for Hillary, Sebelius, Biden, Bayh, anyone. We will find out when it is announced, and until then it could really be anybody.

This has been intense.

 

[Mumei]

You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.

"Does John Edwards love his wife as much as you loved your first wife?"

... Well, maybe if ABC had been hosting and moderating.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Singer, songwriter, liberal activist and now John McCain scourge Jackson Browne filed a lawsuit today against the presumptive GOP nominee and the Republican Party for failing to obtain a license to use one of his songs in a television commercial.

The song, "Running on Empty," has been used by the Ohio Republican Party (not the McCain campaign) apparently against Browne's approval. The music icon also claims that in doing so, the false perception is created that he is endorsing McCain's candidacy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/jackson-browne-sues-mccai_n_118977.html

:lol

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/jackson-browne-sues-mccai_n_118977.html

:lol

He picked "Running on Empty"????

 

[Macam]

I'm been disappointed with Richardson as a surrogate. He's been very weak in articulating his points to interviewers and even goes after as just repeating campaign talking points when stumped. I expected more out of him. He may better better on the stump (hopefully) though.

He's always been like that, even when he was running to be the nominee.

 

[StoOgE]

So looks like Musharef is out, the military wont support him, and impechment is basically assured. Should step down and flee the country soonish.

 

[StoOgE]

He's always been like that, even when he was running to be the nominee.

Its b/c he is a career diplomat, not much of politician. He is crazy smart though, sadly ability to govern isnt as important as strength on the stump.

 

[speculawyer]

So looks like Musharef is out, the military wont support him, and impechment is basically assured. Should step down and flee the country soonish.

That's scary . . . you go from all-powerful dictator to be run out of the country in a matter of weeks.

And did i mention that the country has nukes? :lol

 

[speculawyer]

He picked "Running on Empty"????

The Ohio GOP . . . empty on ethics.