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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
APF said:
I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.

Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.
Click to expand...
You're shtick is a two person tango, and I'm more often than not your dance partner. You lead and I follow.

You could go as far as to say that I complete you.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Cheebs said:
Bush has a more liberal stance on the economy, guns, central government power, states rights, the supreme court, health care, and even abortion than Ron Paul

Makes sense why I prefer Bush. Only place Paul is more in line with my liberal viewpoints is FP and drugs, everything else Bush is more liberal.
Click to expand...

You would prefer an incompetent President who doesn't agree with your policies compared to a possibly competent President who also doesn't agree with you?

Cheebs said:
Exactly. He sucks but would lock up Indiana. Bayh is a God in that state, most popular politician there in easily 50+ years.
Click to expand...

Since when does a VP "lock up" any state Cheebs?
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Deus Ex Machina said:
And?
Click to expand...
You don't think anything has changed since June?
 
3

3rdman

Member
I'd still prefer Biden over all others...Charismatic and tough as nails...He's make a great bulldog to attack McCain with and look great doing it.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
grandjedi6 said:
Since when does a VP "lock up" any state Cheebs?
Click to expand...
Indiana is VERY close without Bayh, Bayh can add that 2-4% needed.

And how is Paul competent. I don't trust the competence of anyone who has a completely different worldview than me.
 
T

TDG

Banned
Cheebs said:
I want the APF who gave serious insight back.
Click to expand...
He still does, he gave some good insight just recently about Bayh. It's just hard to carry in any discussion with APF in the thread because everyone freaks out and assumes he's attacking them, or something. :p
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Deus Ex Machina said:
Has Wes Clark change his mind about wanting to be VP? No.
Click to expand...
Where in the article you posted does it say that Wesley Clark didn't want to be VP? All he said was that (at that time), she was the odd-on favorite to be VP.

I think you're reading a bit too much into that.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
He still does, he gave some good insight just recently about Bayh. It's just hard to carry in any discussion with APF in the thread because everyone freaks out and assumes he's attacking them, or something. :p
Click to expand...
PoliGAF when APF, PD, and ToxicAdam as the big 3 was the best. PD is too scared to even come to this thread anymore. I miss the smaller poligaf community. :(
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Cheebs said:
Indiana is VERY close without Bayh, Bayh can add that 2-4% needed.

And how is Paul competent. I don't trust the competence of anyone who has a completely different worldview than me.
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Why should he care about Indiana so much, that he'd base his VP selection around it?

As I said, on the Tipping Point State Chart, Indiana is ranked 11th @ 4%. Virginia (Mark Warner) makes much more sense to target than Indiana.

No offense, but Indiana is small potatoes.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
RubxQub said:
Why should he care about Indiana so much, that he'd base his VP selection around it?

As I said, on the Tipping Point State Chart, Indiana is ranked 11th @ 4%. Virginia (Mark Warner) makes much more sense to target than Indiana.

No offense, but Indiana is small potatoes.
Click to expand...
Mark Warner said the Obama campaigned tried to vet him but Warner refused saying he wont be VP though.
 
S

Skiptastic

Member
Full Recovery said:
Yes I live in Indiana, and I would LOVE for IN to go Dem this time around.
Click to expand...

It would be the first time since LBJ. Would at least make the IN election more interesting. And the resulting Senate seat replacement would also be interesting. I'm all for it!
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Why are people worried about Indiana?

If Obama has won Indiana, then the election is most likely a landslide.

That's not to say I don't think Obama shouldn't try and win the state, but acting as if Indiana will change the map and push Obama over 270 to win is a bit foolish. Obama doesn't win Indiana if the EV is close; he does win it if there is a landslide.
 
M

Macam

Banned
Karma Kramer said:
I don't see what they could possibly exploit with Clark. Thats why I think he is so good... he's basically McCain, but awesome and a democrat.
Click to expand...

Clark's military record doesn't grant him immunity from attacks. His Face the Nation comments alone are enough to give Republicans/McCain's camp sufficient material for a narrative. They'll exploit whatever narrative they want to put out.

Greemie4 said:
I completely understand that. However, with Biden and Bayh, what is Obama supposed to say to combat those attacks, that his pick for VP made a mistake voting for the war and showed poor judgment? And he wants that person who showed poor judgment to be president in case something happens to him? That's not a sign of weakness, that is a weakness.

With Sebelius, and even Clark, all the attacks the republicans come up with should be easy to dispel, and will not hurt Obama at all.
Click to expand...

The war issue will be a problem for hardcore Democrats and that's about it. That's not an issue McCain will want to revisit considering the war's unpopularity, especially over the rationale for going in; they're more focused on the "success" of the surge. There's nothing to say. The Democratic base will squirm and throw a ruckus and then vote for Obama anyway.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Cheebs said:
PoliGAF when APF, PD, and ToxicAdam as the big 3 was the best. PD is too scared to even come to this thread anymore. I miss the smaller poligaf community. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah nothing beats the wonderful conversations held by those three... lol

Grandjedi, Tamanon, and RubxQub are far more insightful and entertaining in my opinion.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Cheebs said:
Mark Warner said the Obama campaigned tried to vet him but Warner refused saying he wont be VP though.
Click to expand...
True, but again, Indiana matters so little in the big picture.

Picking a candidate from a more important state, or one that more properly aligns with Obama's viewpoints, would have a much bigger impact than just winning Indiana.

Obama can pick up Indiana without Bayh, as he's already polling close to or above McCain in that state.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
APF said:
I think Obama is going to pull a Time Magazine and announce "YOU" (meaning us--you know, the ones we've been waiting for) are his VP pick.


Fake Edit: RubxQub staying classy as usual.
Click to expand...
You know that's a famous Hopi proverb right? and he's pretty much saying that we as a country can make a change if we all decide to participate. It's basically an "Ask not what your country can do for you" type of message.

You make fun of that like Obama is effete or something and then when McCain says "In the 21st century, nations don't invade other nations" you let it slide.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Yeah nothing beats the wonderful conversations held by those three... lol

Grandjedi, Tanamon, and RubxQub are far more insightful and entertaining in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Tanamon is one of the smartest IMO in here now but the random weird debates between APF and PD was the best. THE BEST
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Evan Bayh seems to have a convenient case of amnesia.

WSJ said:
Birch Bayh was a darling of liberals, having been the chief architect of the Equal Rights Amendment, which failed to muster enough support to get ratified, and the 26th Amendment, which extended voting rights to 18-year-olds. He also championed Title IX, landmark legislation that included forcing equal opportunity in school athletics for females.

Evan Bayh, by contrast, voted in favor of a failed amendment that would have banned flag-burning and legislation that would have kicked Russia out of the Group of Eight leading economic nations. What upset many liberals the most was his vote to authorize the Iraq invasion and his subsequent co-chairmanship, with likely Republican presidential nominee John McCain, of the Iraq Liberation Committee, a neoconservative group that pushed hard for war.

Sen. Bayh now says he regrets his early support of the Iraq war and has no recollection of the committee. "I don't remember any meetings, any conversations, any anything," Sen. Bayh said in a telephone interview Tuesday. "Obviously my name was linked to it, but other than that there's nothing that can be said."
Click to expand...
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Oh this is rich.

Tell me more mr. mind reader.
Click to expand...
I have met Wes Clark a few times and am friends with a number of his former subordinates and I speak from personal experience when I say his problem is he is a pompous jerk. He is SURE he is smarter than you are and when you meet him he has a way of looking you up and down and if you aren't fawning over him he dismisses you like a crumb on his tie. Have you ever seen a story about any of his former soldiers saying they would support him? Ever seen stories about his "guys" and their loyalty? You won't. Now he has turned on all of us with his support to the idiots at Votevets.org and their stupid anti-surge campaign. Clark is a jerk. Thats the problem. No deeper than that.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Cheebs said:
You've gotten A LOT right this election, who do you think will be VP?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama picks Clark, though. I do think the "short list" being bandied about by the media isn't the true short list, though. The Obama campaign has been adept at handling the media and I think the mention of Bayh, Biden, and Kaine have been carefully orchestrated to maximize support in the respective candidate state's and as a way to gauge support.
 
C

Cheebs

Member
Karma Kramer said:
Hmm... would this mean they are out of the running? I am confused.
Click to expand...
They are speaking Wed. the VP day, about foreign policy. The VP speech topic. If anything it means more likely than it was before that they'll be it.
 
K

Karma Kramer

Banned
Cheebs said:
Tanamon is one of the smartest IMO in here now but the random weird debates between APF and PD was the best. THE BEST
Click to expand...

Maybe from an entertaining standpoint. But I learned very little from their insight.

Grandjedi is perhaps my favorite. A+ to you!

You are the master of graphs my friend

mccain-thumbs.jpg
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Karma Kramer said:
Hmm... would this mean they are out of the running? I am confused.
Click to expand...
Nah, its been emphasized several times that the convention selectors have no clue who the VP is (eventually every potential VP pick should get a speaking spot anyway).
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Incognito said:
Looks like both Biden and Bayh have been given speaking slots at the DNC convention.

Wednesday
Click to expand...
I've posted this before, but I don't think reading from the conference schedule makes sense.

The convention schedulers and Obama's VP team are entirely separate and segregated.

The fact is that if the convention planners and schedulers in Denver know the identity of Obama's Vice Presidential selection, that means a lot of people know. And if a lot of people know, that means the media would know.

But the media doesn't know.

Ergo, not very many people do know. Perhaps only some combination of Obama, Axelrod, Plouffe, Gibbs, and the candidate him or herself, if the candidate has been chosen at all.

Ergo, we know nothing.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/bayhdenkabelius.html

The convention planning team and the veep team are entirely segregated for secrecy reasons. If the conference team knew, it would leak.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Oh, this is rich. When challenged on the assertion that McCain's tax plan is better for middle class workers than Obama's - which is not true McCain's policy advisor conceded the point and then said.....

Obama’s campaign has said that their plan provides tax cuts to lower-income individuals, an assertion that the McCain campaign didn’t directly refute. In response, senior policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said that the key to John McCain’s middle-class proposals is allowing people employment opportunities, which in turn ensures that they have the opportunity to benefit from lower taxes.

“In order to pay taxes and have the opportunity to have lower taxes, you have to have a job, and John McCain’s plan is a plan which is dedicated to preserving the small businesses that have created 283,000 jobs in an economy that is struggling,” Holtz-Eakin said. “Barack Obama’s plans are plans which would damage small business in ways that are quite dramatic.”
Click to expand...
So while Obama does cut taxes further, McCain won't be the job killing machine that Obama will be, thereby bringing people into the middle class to begin with.

Or something like that.
 
M

maximum360

Member
Frank the Great said:
21_obamarichardson_lg.jpg


Dark horse!
Click to expand...


I'm been disappointed with Richardson as a surrogate. He's been very weak in articulating his points to interviewers and even goes after as just repeating campaign talking points when stumped. I expected more out of him. He may better better on the stump (hopefully) though.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Sebelius is going to pull a SquareEnix @ the MS E3 conference level meltdown after her speech.

"....and thus, I end my speech."

*applause*

*different speaker gets up to the mic*

*Sebelius runs back up to the mic*

"Oh...I had one more thing to show everyone."

*lights dim*

*Obama "Hands" ad plays...from a different camera angle then usual*

*The camera quickly pans left, and Sebelius is standing next to Obama in a "I'm your VP" T-shirt"*

*crowd goes wild*

....yep, just like that I'm sure.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Oh, this is rich. When challenged on the assertion that McCain's tax plan is better for middle class workers than Obama's - which is not true McCain's policy advisor conceded the point and then said.....


So while Obama does cut taxes further, McCain won't be the job killing machine that Obama will be, thereby bringing people into the middle class to begin with.

Or something like that.
Click to expand...

Trickle-down is REALLY tough these days to push to lower and middle class.
 
D

Deus Ex Machina

Member
RubxQub said:
Sebelius is going to pull a SquareEnix @ the MS E3 conference level meltdown after her speech.

"....and thus, I end my speech."

*applause*

*different speaker gets up to the mic*

*Sebelius runs back up to the mic*

"Oh...I had one more thing to show everyone."

*lights dim*

*Obama "Hands" ad plays...from a different camera angle then usual*

*The camera quickly pans left, and Sebelius is standing next to Obama in a "I'm your VP" T-shirt"*

*crowd goes wild*

....yep, just like that I'm sure.
Click to expand...
I personally do not believe that the night people are speaking is going to indicate anything one way or another. Not for Hillary, Sebelius, Biden, Bayh, anyone. We will find out when it is announced, and until then it could really be anybody.

This has been intense.
 
M

Mumei

Member
RubxQub said:
You know what would be a killer debate question?

"Mr. McCain, what are your views on John Edwards recent extramarital affair, and how do you think it compares to your own?"

I demand someone grows the stones to ask that.
Click to expand...

"Does John Edwards love his wife as much as you loved your first wife?"

... Well, maybe if ABC had been hosting and moderating.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Singer, songwriter, liberal activist and now John McCain scourge Jackson Browne filed a lawsuit today against the presumptive GOP nominee and the Republican Party for failing to obtain a license to use one of his songs in a television commercial.

The song, "Running on Empty," has been used by the Ohio Republican Party (not the McCain campaign) apparently against Browne's approval. The music icon also claims that in doing so, the false perception is created that he is endorsing McCain's candidacy.
Click to expand...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/14/jackson-browne-sues-mccai_n_118977.html

:lol :D
 
M

Macam

Banned
maximum360 said:
I'm been disappointed with Richardson as a surrogate. He's been very weak in articulating his points to interviewers and even goes after as just repeating campaign talking points when stumped. I expected more out of him. He may better better on the stump (hopefully) though.
Click to expand...

He's always been like that, even when he was running to be the nominee.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
So looks like Musharef is out, the military wont support him, and impechment is basically assured. Should step down and flee the country soonish.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Macam said:
He's always been like that, even when he was running to be the nominee.
Click to expand...

Its b/c he is a career diplomat, not much of politician. He is crazy smart though, sadly ability to govern isnt as important as strength on the stump.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
StoOgE said:
So looks like Musharef is out, the military wont support him, and impechment is basically assured. Should step down and flee the country soonish.
Click to expand...
That's scary . . . you go from all-powerful dictator to be run out of the country in a matter of weeks.

And did i mention that the country has nukes? :lol
 
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