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PoliGAF Interim Thread of USA General Elections (DAWN OF THE VEEP)

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P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Kaine had some pretty good jabs at Rove.. i think he would do well if he was chosen as VP.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/17/kaine-fires-back-at-rove/

(CNN) – It was a tough retort from Gov. Tim Kaine, a Democrat from Virginia.

Kaine responded Sunday to comments made by Republican strategist Karl Rove earlier this month criticizing Kaine's potential vice presidential credentials.

On CBS' "Face the Nation," Rove jabbed at the governor, saying "again no disrespect to Gov. Kaine. He's been a governor for three years. He's been able but undistinguished. I don't think people could really name a big, important thing that he's done."

The Democratic governor — who is rumored to be on Barack Obama's potential VP list — pointed out that his state was voted best for business three years in a row by Forbes.com and said "maybe Karl Roves and the Republicans don't care about business climate, that would explain why we're in the situation that we're in".

"Governing Magazine was also named Virginia as the top governed state in America," Kaine told reporters, "maybe to Karl Rove that isn't an achievement that would explain a federal government that couldn't respond to a hurricane a Katrina and couldn't figure out how to start and manage a war."

Kaine spoke to reporters in Washington after shooting a televised interview Sunday morning.

By the way, in the 2008 Governing Magazine ranking, Virginia shares its top A- rating with two other states: Washington and Utah.
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M

mj1108

Member
FitzOfRage said:
Kind of ironic that being a prisoner of war becomes a get out of jail free card.
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That's exactly what it's become. At this rate he could murder someone and say "BUT I WAS A PRISONER OF WAR" and get off scott free.
 
UltimaKilo

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
Instigator said:
Bill Kristol says McCain was clearly the winner on Saturday and accusations of cheating is a indirect admission from the Obama camp that they lost.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,572692,00.html
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I don't know about "winning" if you would say there was a winner, but McCain was more direct and candid. However important these votes are, I believe McCain needed to look better than Obama, giving his problem with evangelicals.
 
J

Jason's Ultimatum

Member
A bit off topic, but did anyone catch 60 Minutes last night? Valerie Plame was on and hot damn did she look HOT. Also, it's kind of scary how she was asked if any of her contacts were jeopardized due to the White House leaking her name, and her reply was "Yes, but that's all I can say." I can't believe Karl Rove and Dick Cheney got away with that.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Mercury Fred said:
Then why is Obama throwing a historic segment of the Democratic block under the bus to pander to a group of wingnuts who are never going to vote for him anyway? And if you think voting gay Americans don't care about these statements you're wrong.

Obama is the worst kind of hypocrite, which is to be expected as this is politics. But the idea of "new politics" in association with Obama is just absurd.
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I know I'm a bit late in responding to this, but Obama opposes the CA amendment and supports the complete repeal of DOMA. He's about as close as you can get to supporting gay marriage while still claiming to oppose it.

None of which, of course, excuses his (probable) dishonesty on the "between a man and a woman" thing. But saying that he's throwing gays under the bus is hyperbole; if you want a real example of that, look at the Clinton presidency or Kerry in 2004.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Obama may have his opinions about gay marriage, but I really do not expect him to go out of his way to criticize it if he finally gets into office like Bush did.
 
A

adamsappel

Member
DEO3 said:
NYT corroborates NBC's claim that McCain wasn't in any kind of 'cone of silence' during Obama's portion of the Saddleback Forum, in fact he wasn't even in the building. So it's more than likely he was listening to the questions with advisers beforehand, which is why he came out looking so prepared.
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I'm inclined to think McCain wasn't preparing answers before. I would hope he had more integrity than that. I wouldn't be disappointed if that weren't the case, though. However, it's too easy to frame the asking about it as sour grapes from the "loser" and avoid answering it directly. I'm sure reporters would ask it like, "The Obama campaign has accused you of cheating during the interview. How do you respond?" "Senator Obama is obviously upset about losing the debate and is desperately grasping at straws."
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Diablos said:
Obama may have his opinions about gay marriage, but I really do not expect him to go out of his way to criticize it if he finally gets into office like Bush did.
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His opposition to the CA amendment makes it pretty clear that, at the bare minimum, he won't do anything to stop same-sex marriage from being legalized anywhere.
 
D

Diablos

Member
He did after all say the states should decide.

I actually tend to agree with that. If you tried to force every single state to legalize gay marriage, there would no doubt be a ridiculous amount of opposition to it.

What I would like to see ending, however, is permanently campaigning on the message that gay marriage is bad, and then rubbing it in once elected. It needs to die along with the end of the Bush Administration. Again, I do not think Obama will be doing any of that should he be the next President.

I can understand why people like Mercury Fred are upset, though; it's easy for straight people such as myself to kind of be indifferent about the whole thing, because it doesn't affect me at the end of the day; that's not the case for other people. You can't fault a homosexual for getting offended when any politician defines their personal idea of marriage that conflicts with theirs on national television.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
polyh3dron said:
This is his problem...

The Republicans will do ANYTHING to get elected but Obama has certain lines he will not cross which puts him at a disadvantage. Republicans LOVE going after an opponent's greatest strength and turning it into a negative by saying the most outlandish things (see: celebrity ads) and it usually works, regardless of how tasteless and deplorable it is. This plagiarism thing is Obama's opening to really go hard on McCain's use of his former POW-ness. He needs to take it IMO.

With all of these attacks the Repubs have gone on the offensive and have turned things around so that Obama is following their lead and he has to do something to change that.

By taking this high road all he's doing (in the minds of undecideds in swing states at least) is making himself out to be a pussy.
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So, basically, what you want to do is vote for McCain. Because if Obama stoops to his level, there's no difference. If Obama is willing to stoop to his level, we've got no reason to trust him more than McCain.

If all you care about is someone who will do whatever it takes to beat his opponent, regardless of the collateral damage or long term consequences, why would you have any interest in Obama as a president in the first place?
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Diablos said:
He did after all say the states should decide.

I actually tend to agree with that. If you tried to force every single state to legalize gay marriage, there would no doubt be a ridiculous amount of opposition to it.
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Today, something like that might be a bad idea. In the long run, however, a Loving v. Virginia-type SCOTUS decision overturning all of the state amendments is almost certainly going to be necessary. While I think a ruling like that is inevitable, whether or not Obama wins could determine whether it takes 10 years or 50 before same-sex marriage is legal in every state.
 
I

Incognito

Troll
Ventrue said:
This works great for everything:

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, has a terrible energy policy, is outrageous."
“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, is a just like Bush is outrageous.”
“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, has an outdated way of thinking is outrageous."
"John McCain, a former prisoner of war"

65bvb8.jpg


z51er.jpg
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Hey, it just so happens....

mccainmorsecodeposter.jpg


Brief description:

It's "M-C-C-A-I-N" spelled out in tap code, a cipher used by prisoners in solitary confinement. It puts the letters into a 5x5 grid [minus the K]. So M is third row, second column, etc. This sign, in other words, says "JOHN MCCAIN, POW." I can't figure out if it was printed by the campaign and handed out, or if this guy just happened to make it himself.
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In other news:
A confident Barack Obama raised an extraordinary $7.8 million Sunday at three California fundraisers, most if it in large checks to a Democratic Party committee.

“I will win. Don’t worry about that,” he said to the crowd of about 1,300 at his third event of the evening, according to the pool report.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

Obama echoed some of the themes he discussed when he described Pennsylvanians as "bitter" and stoked controversy three months ago, but did so much more adroitly.

"Now, you want to win. And saying it doesn’t make it so," he told the crowd. "It would be nice to think that after eight years of economic disaster, after eight years of bungled foreign policy, of being engaged in a war that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, that cost us a trillion dollars and thousands of lives, that people would say, let’s toss the bums out. Toss the bums out, we’re starting from scratch, we’re starting over. This is not working."

“So I understand why a lot of folks are saying, this should just happen. Why are we having to run all these television commercials? Why do we have to raise all this money? Just read the papers. These are the knuckleheads who have been in charge. Throw ‘em out. But American politics aren’t that simple," he said.

"The fact of the matter is, at a certain point, when government has not been serving the people for this long, people get cynical. They tune out. And they start saying to themselves, a plague on both your houses. They are willing to consume negative information more frequently than positive information, for good reason. They’ve seen how promises haven’t been kept," he said.
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Ben Smith
 
R

ralexand

100% logic failure rate
This cone of silence stuff could backfire on McCain. What happens in a real debate when the questions aren't as in your wheelbarrel. He's also has raised the stakes for himself in the debates and he will be judged by a higher curve.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
ralexand said:
This cone of silence stuff could backfire on McCain. What happens in a real debate when the questions aren't as in your wheelbarrel. He's also has raised the stakes for himself in the debates and he will be judged by a higher curve.
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this, and the "cross story", will never be mentioned outside of liberal news outlets
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Tamanon said:
Plus, you can't just tell a story or give a one-word answer in a debate where you're not just trying to get applause lines:p
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I'd wager the debates will have a neutral crowd - most likely comprised of independent voters. Saying shit like "defeat evil at all costs, and I will go after Osama to the gates of hell if I have to" won't fly with them.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
reilo said:
I'd wager the debates will have a neutral crowd - most likely comprised of independent voters. Saying shit like "defeat evil at all costs, and I will go after Osama to the gates of hell if I have to" won't fly with them.
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not so sure about that. simple answers that portray a superficially bipolar world of us versus the other (right v. wrong, freedom v. tyranny, coke v. pepsi) work well. hell, you see it right now in how McCain's campaign has framed this race between himself and the 'unknown' Obama.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
That McCain's story that he just started using in the past few years about a secretly Christian guard at his POW camp one time scratched a cross in the dirt for them to silently pray together.....and how it's probably plagiarized from Solzhenitsyn.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
I actually read some of the comments there and the argument that we should allow waterboarding because some troops go through waterboarding to prepare them for it is absolutely silly.:lol
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Fragamemnon said:
I can't wait for that text message to be true! :D Well, except the CNN part. :lol
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She is a disaster on multiple levels. She'd get picked apart. Can't keep her man in check, can't run a campaign.
 
O

Odrion

Banned
Hitokage said:
I would hope the Obama campaign is smart enough to know that the east coast is not currently in the "EST" time zone. :p
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Why do hoaxs have such dumb giveaways?

I was amazed that they managed to not misspell anything.
 
M

Macam

Banned
JayDubya said:
It's not like some secret code. The meaning is fairly explicit.
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I'm aware what you likely think "legislating from the bench" means since it reinforces your own beliefs of so-called judicial activism, but in the context that it's used, it's hardly a call for more restrained judges.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
I CALLED IT

Obama Infanticide Attack Being Readied By 527s, Pat Buchanan Says

A few weeks ago, the Huffington Post's Seth Colter Walls reported that Republican officials and outside groups were set to launch a smear campaign against Barack Obama, accusing the Senator of enabling infanticide.

The issue stems from a state version of the federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which proposed that any "viable" fetus surviving a late-term abortion receive sustaining medical care. Obama opposed the measure not because he disagreed with overarching purpose, but because of objectionable side-provisions such as a failure to immunize doctors from legal prosecution.

It was, Seth concluded, a ginned-up argument made more complicated by the fact the bill passed in 2005, "free of any other measures Obama had previously opposed."

And yet, the GOP seems hell bent on furthering the line of attack. In the minutes preceding Saturday's values forum with the presidential candidates, Pat Buchanan discussed Obama's alleged vulnerabilities on the issue of abortion before letting it slip that conservative groups were set to hit the Illinois Democrat on charges of infanticide.

"Barack Obama on the issue of life is further left than anybody in the Congress of the United States. He not only pro abortion but pro-abortion on demand, he is pro-late term abortion, pro-partial birth abortion, he objected to the Supreme Court ruling that upheld the ban. But most important, Barack Obama and the Illinois legislature supported, or rather opposed a bill that would have protected the life of babies born from a botched abortion who were alive, three times. And I do know Republicans are planning, or rather 527s are planning attack ads on this and I will be interested to see if Rick Warren brings it up."
Already, it seems, the wheels are turning. On Sunday, the Associated Press reported that, "a group purporting to tell the "real truth" about Barack Obama's views on abortion wants a judge to rule it is not subject to federal election restrictions on fundraising and advertising. The Real Truth About Obama Inc., a group formed by anti-abortion activists, is trying to establish a Web site and air radio ads. But the group's attorney says his clients fear they will be prosecuted for breaking federal rules that restrict fundraising and advertising by political action committees, or PACs."

As for Warren, he didn't bring up the issue of infanticide during the values forum, though he did quiz Obama to define when "a baby get human rights."

"Well," replied the Senator. "I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade. But let me just speak more generally about the issue of abortion because this is something obviously the country wrestles with. One thing that I'm absolutely convinced of is there is a moral and ethical content to this issue. So I think that anybody who tries to deny the moral difficulties and gravity of the abortion issue, I think is not paying attention."
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It begins.
 
C

Chrono

Banned
"The fact of the matter is, at a certain point, when government has not been serving the people for this long, people get cynical. They tune out. And they start saying to themselves, a plague on both your houses. They are willing to consume negative information more frequently than positive information, for good reason. They’ve seen how promises haven’t been kept," he said.
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Oh give me a fucking break. The reason democrats still have to campaign this hard even after the past 8 years is because the American people have an average IQ of 52, and half of those are fucking cavemen called believers.

Not every human being is a rational creature with a good heart. It's most likely the other way around, actually. We're the result of a mindless and random process called evolution, welcome to reality. And yet every time liberals analyze something there's that assumption, and it's never anybody's fault. Well except the white man of course, it's always his fault, but that only works when people who look different are in the discussion.
 
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