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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
Agent Icebeezy said:
To stay in his zone and not flip out, yeah. His handlers are probably going to tell him that he has to look next time because the MSM is making a really big deal out of this because the viewership is making a big deal out of this.

27_wo_us_election_debate_ap_4.jpg


This was the image of the night, and it was most definitely not intentional. Anybody that has ever been in or even just observed any level of human or animal conflict, the absolute first sign of submission is looking away from the opponent. There is absolutely no way he was coached to do that.
 

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.
 

tak

Member
I think people are reading way to much into McCain not making eye contact. It most likely the case that he thought he should or was told to face the camera during the debate, not because of some emotional reason.

PantherLotus said:
27_wo_us_election_debate_ap_4.jpg


This was the image of the night, and it was most definitely not intentional. Anybody that has ever been in or even just observed any level of human or animal conflict, the absolute first sign of submission is looking away from the opponent. There is absolutely no way he was coached to do that.
or looking in the direction the pictures would be taken
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
PantherLotus said:
27_wo_us_election_debate_ap_4.jpg


This was the image of the night, and it was most definitely not intentional. Anybody that has ever been in or even just observed any level of human or animal conflict, the absolute first sign of submission is looking away from the opponent. There is absolutely no way he was coached to do that.

McCain has always done that, even when facing Republicans.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
PantherLotus said:
27_wo_us_election_debate_ap_4.jpg


This was the image of the night, and it was most definitely not intentional. Anybody that has ever been in or even just observed any level of human or animal conflict, the absolute first sign of submission is looking away from the opponent. There is absolutely no way he was coached to do that.
Agree. In case anyone missed it, here's a collection of pics showing this:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12967463&postcount=6624

340x.jpg


No way on earth that's coached. It's barely contained contempt.
Ether_Snake said:
McCain has always done that, even when facing Republicans.
Republican opponents - which is the point. He can't connect with his opponents.
 

Tamanon

Banned
tak said:
I think people are reading way to much into McCain not making eye contact. It most likely the case that he thought he should or was told to face the camera during the debate, not because of some emotional reason.

He was told several times to address Obama himself by Lehrer:p
 

Sharp

Member
Ether_Snake said:
McCain has always done that, even when facing Republicans.
So why is Obama winning in the polls then? There must be some reason, and if it's not eye contact I'm hard-pressed to imagine what it could be. Height maybe?
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Slurpy said:
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.
If by clear agenda you mean "not the Mr.congenial of the senate" and a "POW" , then I think I caught it nice and clear.
 

Amir0x

Banned
*Warning: Break post in case comment responded to is sarcasm

Slurpy said:
a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.

siren.gif


News Flash: Showing ability to meet at middle ground suggests you are not in command of the issues. It is better to make shit up and be a partisan asstard instead of acknowledging your shared beliefs.

siren.gif
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Ether_Snake said:
CAFFERTY RIPS PALIN by merely playing a clip of her interview:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

And you can see that as much as Wolf Blitzer tries to remain as "neutral" as a toaster, the guy obviously agrees she's an idiot. He almost laughed!

And I am still certain the debate will never happen.
It should be perfectly acceptable for a journalist (or 'journalist') to flatly agree that Palin was pathetic in that interview. She doesn't know a fucking thing about anything.
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Dan said:
It should be perfectly acceptable for a journalist (or 'journalist') to flatly agree that Palin was pathetic in that interview. She doesn't know a fucking thing about anything.
Every journo is so afraid to get slapped with a Partisan label, it's sad. Just fucking say it, she's a blathering idiot.

"health care reform is needed to shore up our economy".

What. the . fuck.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
After a bit of consideration and seeing the reactions to the debate...

I have to say... it does seem like the way Obama postured himself did seem like a calculated move. Deferrential, but articulate, without arrogance. He learned from the mistakes of his predecessors... he understands precisely that this is not just a debate between two people, or a debate for poligaf, but an impression among the viewership of americans. And Americans, more than anything love to judge on character.

I recall a bit about what he said about his grandfather. thought it came from his book audacity of hope, but I can't find the specific excerpt.

to paraphrase it, he says:

"Early on in life, I learned quickly that I could trounce my grandfather in an argument and leave him all flustered... but it didn't leave me with a great sense of satisfaction, and furthermore it left me feeling guilty about beating down on his grandpa. So as I matured, I learned that it was more important for my grandpa to feel like he was still in control of something, even if it was just his own home, after all the hardships his had gone through in his life... it would mean more for him, then it would for me to simply win another argument."​

I also remember one of the articles that one of the poligaf members posted a while back; about his professorship. In it, his students remember him fondly; "He was so much more interesting back then (when he was lecturing constitutional law) ... before he had to dumb it down for the rest of the people to understand."

Dude is smarter than poligaf.

And I feel good about my $4k bet. /hifive xisqo.
 

Rhindle

Member
Kos has the same take as what I posted earlier:

Okay, *one* more
by kos

Fri Sep 26, 2008 at 11:12:02 PM PDT

I've been pondering those snap polls, both of which showed Obama winning tonight's debate handily. I just never would've predicted that. In fact, I've given up trying to predict how the public will react to certain things. Remember McCain's acceptance speech at the RNC convention? I thought it was dreadful, but polling suggested people loved it.

On the merits, the debate was more of a draw, so that doesn't explain the results. I wonder if there was something else at play. It was like people WANTED to like the black guy but weren't sure.

And tonight reassured them, given his calm poise and wry humor, that Barack Obama was more like Will Smith than Wesley Snipes.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
http://www.campaignsandelections.com/stories/?StoryID=A1EB70AC-1422-17E0-F8590BEEBE3B06EC

Friday's first official presidential debate offered some terse back and forth between the candidates, but few memorable moments between Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama. The two sparred on the economy, the war in Iraq and on the proper approach to dealing with Iran. Most importantly, though, neither candidate made a major mistake.

Two real-time evaluations of Friday's debate found that some independents and undecided voters thought that Barack Obama came out on top.

Veteran pollster Stan Greenberg boasted the earliest qualitative analysis of how undecided voters reacted to Friday's debate. On a conference call with reporters shortly after the debate ended, Greenberg detailed the results of dial testing focus groups conducted by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner during the debate. The firm recorded the reactions of some 45 undecided voters, who Greenberg described as mostly "Republican leaners." The early conclusion?

"We saw large shifts in favor of Sen. Obama throughout the debate," according to Greenberg. "Most saw this as a good debate for Obama."

While John McCain's favorability rating rose 9 points among Greenberg's focus group over the course of the debate, Obama's favorable numbers rose a stunning 39 points. At the outset of the debate some 69 percent of the group gave John McCain the edge on national security. That number dropped to just 44 percent after the debate.

But when it came to the issue of the day-the economy-Greenberg says neither candidate's responses moved the undecideds in his group much.

And despite the shifts toward Obama, Greenberg says there was still no consensus on a candidate post-debate. Among the undecided members of the focus group, half of them were still that way at the conclusion of the debate. The other half split evenly between Obama and McCain.

Another real-time gauge of Friday's debate came from HCD Research and the Muhlenberg College Institute of Public Opinion. They teamed to offer real-time reactions of viewers on the website Mediacurves.com. HCD employed a combination of text message responses from participants and web polling to gauge which candidate Democrats, Republicans and Independents were in sync with on the debate's major issues.

With partisan viewers, Friday's debate appeared to reinforce their leanings. On all of the debate's major issues, Democratic and Republican viewers split largely along party lines, according to HCD Research. It was 80-20 along party lines on most issues.

Most telling, though, were the reactions from independents. According to HCD, independent viewers gave the edge to Sen. Obama on the lion's share of the debate's major issues. Obama did the best among independents when it came to the war in Iraq-independents sided with Obama 64 percent to 36 percent for McCain.

And on the question of who won Friday's debate, HCD's independent participants gave the overwhelming edge to Barack Obama-61 percent to 39 percen
 

Boogie9IGN

Member
:lol

'He was coming off as rooted in the past. For example, he quoted Alexander the Great. I think he knew Alexander the Great.'
 

Socreges

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
CAFFERTY RIPS PALIN by merely playing a clip of her interview:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

And you can see that as much as Wolf Blitzer tries to remain as "neutral" as a toaster, the guy obviously agrees she's an idiot. He almost laughed!

And I am still certain the debate will never happen.
i think they've been loading her with information over the last few weeks and she's now beginning to implode. she just shoots off soundbytes during her answers with no regard for the listener. she's probably been told that as long as she mentions certain key points that she'll do fine.

btw, blitzer WAS laughing off camera after cafferty said "got that?"
 

Door2Dawn

Banned
Slurpy said:
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.
15yhiy0.jpg
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Slurpy said:
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.

Aren't we past this phase?
 

Amir0x

Banned
I wonder if the perception that Obama won was played largely in part to expectations. We had heard for a while that McCain's strength is foreign policy, but Obama sparred evenly and at least held his own and seemed legitimately knowledgeable on the topic.

This might make it seem like he performed disproportionately well, since people's expectations started minimally.

Theory: The reverse could be true of future debates.
UNLESS: Palin-Biden debate goes truly disastrously.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Clevinger said:
No, it's like a guy being tortured by people of the race for five fucking years. Look, I hate the guy, but I can understand.


someone with those types of deep seeded issues should be nowhere near the oval office. i understand why he has those feelings/said those things.. but it still doesnt justify it in my eyes.. not if he wants to be president of this country.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安

Cloudy

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
CAFFERTY RIPS PALIN by merely playing a clip of her interview:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

And you can see that as much as Wolf Blitzer tries to remain as "neutral" as a toaster, the guy obviously agrees she's an idiot. He almost laughed!

And I am still certain the debate will never happen.

OMG, I burst out laughing every time I see that. Good grief.. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Katie's expression. OMG :lol :lol :lol :lol
 

Amir0x

Banned
speculawyer said:
No, that is just common courtesy. Something I guess McCain lacked.

His campaign released an advertisement pretty much directly implying that Barack Obama was attempting to peddle sex to kindergarten children.

Common Courtesy for McCain? LOLOL. Left back in that POW camp.
 

kevm3

Member
I just hope that Biden doesn't underestimate Palin and comes in as prepared as possible. You get hit the hardest when you don't expect it.
 

Red Scarlet

Member
Slurpy said:
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.

Is this common in the political threads? It sounds like a gold mine!

But it's too many posts.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Amir0x said:
I wonder if the perception that Obama won was played largely in part to expectations. We had heard for a while that McCain's strength is foreign policy, but Obama sparred evenly and at least held his own and seemed legitimately knowledgeable on the topic.

This might make it seem like he performed disproportionately well, since people's expectations started minimally.

Theory: The reverse could be true of future debates.
UNLESS: Palin-Biden debate goes truly disastrously.

Biden has it the hardest I think. He's gotta avoid laughing at her acting sarcastic or doing anything that would belittle her. Hopefully he takes the Obama approach and just let's her implode on herself with facts.
 

tak

Member
speculawyer said:
No, that is just common courtesy. Something I guess McCain lacked.
I'm not saying his actions (eye contact with Obama) read well, they don't. However, I think people are reading way to much into them.
 
Amir0x said:
I wonder if the perception that Obama won was played largely in part to expectations. We had heard for a while that McCain's strength is foreign policy, but Obama sparred evenly and at least held his own and seemed legitimately knowledgeable on the topic.

This might make it seem like he performed disproportionately well, since people's expectations started minimally.

Theory: The reverse could be true of future debates.
UNLESS: Palin-Biden debate goes truly disastrously.
I really don't think so.

I think it came down to the following:

Obama had a couple more zingers than McCain. Additionally, Obama's posture was almost always better. Obama praised McCain and in response McCain attacked him (it literally makes no sense to do this!).

Finally, Obama did a good job of bringing himself down to earth. McCain tried to do this, but he just didn't connect as well as Bush did in making himself seem the average guy and painting a picture of his opponent. And he will struggle with this during the other debates as well.
 

Amir0x

Banned
sp0rsk said:
Biden has it the hardest I think. He's gotta avoid laughing at her acting sarcastic or doing anything that would belittle her. Hopefully he takes the Obama approach and just let's her implode on herself with facts.

yeah, the day Palin was selected this was always foremost on my mind. I don't want to say he has to handle her with kid gloves, but the thin line will be incredible. Any sense of bullying will be perceived negatively.
 

AniHawk

Member
kevm3 said:
I just hope that Biden doesn't underestimate Palin and comes in as prepared as possible. You get hit the hardest when you don't expect it.
Maybe Republicans have been trying to make her appear like a moron and then at the debates she'll astound everyone by stringing together a coherent sentence.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Is this debate available online anywhere yet? I don't feel like looking through 20+ pages of this thread and my searches haven't produced any results yet.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
sp0rsk said:
Biden has it the hardest I think. He's gotta avoid laughing at her acting sarcastic or doing anything that would belittle her. Hopefully he takes the Obama approach and just let's her implode on herself with facts.

He's not stupid.
 

johnsmith

remember me
Slurpy said:
Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.

*drowns in jizz*
 
vitaflo said:
Not to be Debbie Downer, but most people thought Kerry won most, if not all, the debates in '04.

That said, it's good to come out with the "win" (although I hate how they make these into boxing matches).
It's been repeated before, but Kerry was actually the one behind Bush before the debates. The debates made him catch up to him but ultimately fell short.

Obama on the other hand(apart from the fact that Obama isnt Kerry) is, by all measures, leading. This "win" will only widen the gap.

The debate, in short, was one of McCain's last major chance to change the narrative in his favor.
 

AniHawk

Member
Ether_Snake said:
He's not stupid.
He is pretty Bideny though.

Oh, and wanna know the best part about this? It completely dominates any angle of "McCain saved the economy!" the Republicans might have tried to get going.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
tak said:
I think people are reading way to much into McCain not making eye contact. It most likely the case that he thought he should or was told to face the camera during the debate, not because of some emotional reason.
Except McCain wasn't looking at the camera most of the night. Almost the entire time he was either looking down at his podium or down and off to the side in the direction of Lehrer. Only on very rare occasions did he re-orient himself such that he was looking at the camera.

There is NO WAY he was coached or told to do that by anyone on his campaign. And if he was, they will probably be fired. Or at least they ought to be.
 

PantherLotus

Professional Schmuck
If you look at how Obama is gently reassuring his arm, looking into his opponents eyes, it's almost if he is saying, "I'm black and I'm touching you. How does that make you feel?"

340x.jpg


McCain: (grimaces)
Obama: (laughs)
 

Amir0x

Banned
AniHawk said:
He is pretty Bideny though.

Plus all he has to do is be the least bit condescending and that'd do it. And being condescending to someone like Palin would be extremely fucking easy, considering her total goddamn ineptitude in pretty much every political subject thrown at her so far.
 

kevm3

Member
sp0rsk said:
Biden has it the hardest I think. He's gotta avoid laughing at her acting sarcastic or doing anything that would belittle her. Hopefully he takes the Obama approach and just let's her implode on herself with facts.

Yeah, this is exactly what he has to do. These debates aren't who comes up with the most logical and well reasoned points. It's a game of perception more than anything. People are talking about McCain not looking at Obama just as much, if not moreso than the points. Biden has to avoid coming off as Bully Joe and the best approach would for him to slyly push Palin on specifics on policy.

The expectations are set so low for Palin that if she can come off sounding somewhat coherent, she will have won a sort of victory. Biden's job is to respectfully state his points and push Palin on stating specifics, which she is awful at. If she can sit around and cheerily repeat talking points, she'll get positive press.
 

tak

Member
MetatronM said:
Except McCain wasn't looking at the camera most of the night. Almost the entire time he was either looking down at his podium or down and off to the side in the direction of Lehrer. Only on very rare occasions did he re-orient himself such that he was looking at the camera.

There is NO WAY he was coached or told to do that by anyone on his campaign. And if he was, they will probably be fired. Or at least they ought to be.
If you look back at past debates (like the last Kerry and Bush debates), you'll notice the debaters rarely look at each other when they're talking.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
kevm3 said:
I just hope that Biden doesn't underestimate Palin and comes in as prepared as possible. You get hit the hardest when you don't expect it.

There's no doubting why you've got the chicken little tag.

If Palin could've done anything herself to stop her image from imploding in the last couple weeks... she would have already done it.

This is NOT a calculated move by the McCain camp to play possum until the VP debates.

kevm3 said:
Yeah, this is exactly what he has to do. These debates aren't who comes up with the most logical and well reasoned points. It's a game of perception more than anything. People are talking about McCain not looking at Obama just as much, if not moreso than the points. Biden has to avoid coming off as Bully Joe and the best approach would for him to slyly push Palin on specifics on policy.

The expectations are set so low for Palin that if she can come off sounding somewhat coherent, she will have won a sort of victory. Biden's job is to respectfully state his points and push Palin on stating specifics, which she is awful at. If she can sit around and cheerily repeat talking points, she'll get positive press.

Ok, this is more reasonable. But even so, without major prep time, this lady is boned. You can't teach a person like that... a beauty queen, that has lucked her way into a governorship, with no real credentials, who's corrupt, who fails at thinking critically... there's no way you can teach a person like that in 1 month, the length and breadth of knowledge it would take to perform reasonably in even this debate, much less a job.

Even in a soft ball interview, she flubbed it. Now she'll be going into a hard question, head on confrontation, with one of the most experienced and one of the smartest senators on the hill... the expectations are set justifiably low.

And it's not going to impress people when she does a bit better than expected, because really. She will still be doing terribly.

It's not even a "Oh look, a D-!" when people were expecting a F.

People are expecting a hard F... even if she does well relatively, it will still be a F!
 
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