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[Karma Kramer]

So I missed a lot from tonight... can summarize the basic feelings of the night. (who won who lost)

 

[Ether_Snake]

Biden is not dumb he'll just let her talk and will avoid speaking to her directly (and trust me she won't try to talk to him). He can follow a plan.

But like I said before I don't believe that debate will ever happen. She can't do a simple interview with another woman, one on one, in a couch. She would break apart in a debate.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Socreges]

I wonder if the perception that Obama won was played largely in part to expectations. We had heard for a while that McCain's strength is foreign policy, but Obama sparred evenly and at least held his own and seemed legitimately knowledgeable on the topic.

This might make it seem like he performed disproportionately well, since people's expectations started minimally.

that's an oversimplification. i mean, is that what you perceived? "sparred evenly", "held his own", and merely "legitimately knowledgeable"? not only was there a lot else going on, but obama was much more straight-forward in his answers, more articulate in addressing the questions, and didn't appeal to emotion or history nearly as often.

not to mention that any advantage granted to mccain on foreign policy was not greatly publicized recently and obama has certainly raised expectations given his abilities as an orator.

 

[AniHawk]

So I missed a lot from tonight... can summarize the basic feelings of the night. (who won who lost)

Most of GAF thought McCain won or tied. Then every single news outlet came out saying their polls showed Obama won.

On a night where McCain needed a decisive win, he didn't get it. There's also some talks about how McCain's body language was interpreted (no eye contact, laughing, sneering, etc).

 

[Tamanon]

Biden is not dumb he'll just let her talk and will avoid speaking to her directly (and trust me she won't try to talk to him). He can follow a plan.

But like I said before I don't believe that debate will ever happen. She can't do a simple interview with another woman, one on one, in a couch. She would break apart in a debate.

Not gonna happen.

After seeing the McCain no-eyes move, I think he'll look at Palin and start his answers out talking to her, but then when he moves to the meat he'll address the audience.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Most of GAF thought McCain won or tied. Then every single news outlet came out saying their polls showed Obama won.

Haha... GAF doesn't know shit!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Is the debate available online anywhere?

 

[reilo]

yeah, the day Palin was selected this was always foremost on my mind. I don't want to say he has to handle her with kid gloves, but the thin line will be incredible. Any sense of bullying will be perceived negatively.

Tonight when asked how he would approach Palin in the debates, Biden responded:

"I won't treat her the same way John McCain treated Barack Obama tonight."

 

[kevm3]

There's no doubting why you've got the chicken little tag.

If Palin could've done anything herself to stop her image from imploding in the last couple weeks... she would have already done it.

This is NOT a calculated move by the McCain camp to play possum until the VP debates.

What is chicken little about what I said? When did I ever say it's a calculated move for Palin to play dumb? I didn't.

What I DID say was that Biden has to avoid as coming off as a bully and he has to avoid gaffes. These debates are perception more than merely delivering the best argument. The audience isn't a bunch of professors. Biden has to do what he has to do without coming off as condescending, which is easy to do with Palin....

 

[Cloudy]

Is Real Time on youtube yet?

 

[grandjedi6]

Haha... GAF doesn't know shit!

At least we aren't alone

The mild consensus in the press file was that McCain won, if not in particularly dramatic fashion. The two insta-polls out -- from CBS and CNN -- found the opposite: That Obama won by a wide margin. CBS had it 39% to 25% for Obama, CNN 51% to 38%.

Maybe the difference was expectations. People covering the campaigns think of Obama as a much-improved debate, and McCain as at times a weak one. McCain, by that standard, overperformed. But people tuning into the race now now think of McCain as an experienced hand, and Obama as a newcomer. Obama more than held his own, and McCain failed to expose him -- as he tried -- as out of his depth

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/The_reporters_and_the_polls.html?showall

:lol

 

[MetatronM]

If you look back at past debates (like the last Kerry and Bush debates), you'll notice the debaters rarely look at each other when they're talking.

The Kerry-Bush debates, as near as I can remember, didn't have nearly as much prodding by the moderator to get them to engage one another, though. This one had the majority of its set time devoted to segments where, theoretically, the candidates were supposed to directly interact with one another.

I think that's why this is seen as such an issue.

 

[Slurpy]

Eh, I don't know guys. I think that there was one man who was presidential tonight, that man was John McCain. There was another who was political, that was Barack Obama. John McCain won this debate and controlled the dialogue throughout, whether it was the economy, taxes, spending, Iraq or Iran. There was a leadership gap, a judgment gap, and a boldness gap on display tonight, a fact Barack Obama acknowledged when he said John McCain was right at least five times. Tonight's debate showed John McCain in command of the issues and presenting a clear agenda for America's future.

GAF....you disappoint me.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing...spx?guid=5403a255-d830-422c-879a-0b51785554f0

:lol :lol

 

[Amir0x]

not to mention that any advantage granted to mccain on foreign policy was not greatly publicized recently and obama has certainly raised expectations given his abilities as an orator.

well i'm glad you added 'recently', though I assume the American people have memories exceeding a week when every news channel ever created was suggesting McCain's strength on foreign policy into the upcoming debate and was likewise saying Obama's oration skills did not carry over well into his near endless debates with Hillary Clinton.

It is well known his debate performances are different from his teleprompter speeches.

 

[ixix]

If you look back at past debates (like the last Kerry and Bush debates), you'll notice the debaters rarely look at each other when they're talking.

Granted, it was four years ago, so I may not be remembering right, but weren't Bush and Kerry instructed not to interrupt one another? I think there may have even been a provision about directly addressing one another.

I just remember thinking the terms of those debates were absurd.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

What is chicken little about what I said? When did I ever say it's a calculated move for Palin to play dumb? I didn't.

What I DID say was that Biden has to avoid as coming off as a bully and he has to avoid gaffes. These debates are perception more than merely delivering the best argument. The audience isn't a bunch of professors. Biden has to do what he has to do without coming off as condescending, which is easy to do with Palin....

Thread moving too fast. Here's my response.

Yeah, this is exactly what he has to do. These debates aren't who comes up with the most logical and well reasoned points. It's a game of perception more than anything. People are talking about McCain not looking at Obama just as much, if not moreso than the points. Biden has to avoid coming off as Bully Joe and the best approach would for him to slyly push Palin on specifics on policy.

The expectations are set so low for Palin that if she can come off sounding somewhat coherent, she will have won a sort of victory. Biden's job is to respectfully state his points and push Palin on stating specifics, which she is awful at. If she can sit around and cheerily repeat talking points, she'll get positive press.

Ok, this is more reasonable. But even so, without major prep time, this lady is boned. You can't teach a person like that... a beauty queen, that has lucked her way into a governorship, with no real credentials, who's corrupt, who fails at thinking critically... there's no way you can teach a person like that in 1 month, the length and breadth of knowledge it would take to perform reasonably in even this debate, much less the VP job.

Even in a soft ball interview, she flubbed it. Now she'll be going into a hard question, head on confrontation, with one of the most experienced and one of the smartest senators on the hill... the expectations are set justifiably low.

And it's not going to impress people when she does a bit better than expected, because really. She will still be doing terribly.

It's not even a "Oh look, a D-!" when people were expecting a F.

People are expecting a hard F... even if she does well relatively, it will still be a F!

 

[AniHawk]

What is chicken little about what I said? When did I ever say it's a calculated move for Palin to play dumb? I didn't.

What I DID say was that Biden has to avoid as coming off as a bully and he has to avoid gaffes. These debates are perception more than merely delivering the best argument. The audience isn't a bunch of professors. Biden has to do what he has to do without coming off as condescending, which is easy to do with Palin....

Biden's biggest asset, aside from being a fiery speaker, is that he's a little more able to connect on an emotional level.

That said, I don't think a debate where he bullies Palin wouldn't be a nail in the coffin for Obama. But it might be a setback until the third presidential debate.

 

[tak]

The Kerry-Bush debates, as near as I can remember, did have nearly as much prodding by the moderator to get them to engage one another, though. This one had the majority of its set time devoted to segments where, theoretically, the candidates were supposed to directly interact with one another.

I think that's why this is seen as such an issue.

I'm not saying its not an issue, it looks bad for McCain. But, I don't think the reason why McCain didn't make eye contact was purely emotional.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Does anyone have a video of McCain not looking at Obama?

 

[Gruco]

Even though this will get buried in seconds, I feel compelled to post one of the better stories I've heard about the CDO/Mortgage/Housing insanity to date. Joint NPR New/This American Life piece called the Giant Pool of Money which not only does a great job of summarizing all the players and their roles as well as deeper systemic issues and incentives.

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242

 

[Tamanon]

Even though this will get buried in seconds, I feel compelled to post one of the better stories I've heard about the CDO/Mortgage/Housing insanity to date. Joint NPR New/This American Life piece called the Giant Pool of Money which not only does a great job of summarizing all the players and their roles as well as deeper systemic issues and incentives.

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242

Yeah Hitokage has posted it a few times as have others

 

[Stoney Mason]

47 minutes into the debate. Not bad actually for either guy. I think you see clear difference between each candidate overall. The gaf play by play on this debate was terrible.

 

[kevm3]

Biden's biggest asset, aside from being a fiery speaker, is that he's a little more able to connect on an emotional level.

That said, I don't think a debate where he bullies Palin wouldn't be a nail in the coffin for Obama. But it might be a setback until the third presidential debate.

That is definitely an area where Biden is skilled. If he can sit back and use his oratory abilities to really get down and connect with the American people on why we need this change, attack McCain on policy and respectfully push Palin towards talking specifics, then he's going to tear it up.

My main concern is that after Palin's disasterous interviews, people start underestimating her and maybe underestimate the extremely low expectations set for her. She's going to be better coached than her Couric interview.

When it comes to understanding policy and communicating that, Biden is infinitely better... However, Palin can 'win over' some Americans if she can beat her low expectations by being allowed to cheerlead McCain talking points. An interest of concern for me is the so-called new 'debate format' that the camps have agreed to. I hope the moderator actually pushes for specifics and doesn't allow for some regurgitation of simple talking points.

 

[DEO3]

Does anyone have a video of McCain not looking at Obama?

I have an hour and a half video of McCain not looking at Obama.

 

[Gruco]

Yeah Hitokage has posted it a few times as have others

Well then repeated for good measure!

I mean you can't expect anyone to read more than like 20% of these the posts in these monsters.

 

[Shapingo]

Is Real Time on youtube yet?

TullyCast said they do not allow him to post whole episodes anymore

 

[GhaleonEB]

GAF....you disappoint me.

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing...spx?guid=5403a255-d830-422c-879a-0b51785554f0

:lol :lol

Oh thank god. I couldn't tell if it was a joke post or not and just moved on. :lol

Also: I think Jim Lehrer and the debate organizers are the real winners tonight. The format of nine minutes (or more!) on one topic, with two minute responses and extended discussions after were a revelation after the stop-watch soundbites of past debates. I think that's why people say there were not many stand out moments - it wasn't a debate built around soundbites and quips, it was one designed to be an extended discussion. And Lehrer did a generally excellent job at balancing the two out (though he could have shut McCain up a time or two).

 

[Learn2read]

CAFFERTY RIPS PALIN by merely playing a clip of her interview:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

And you can see that as much as Wolf Blitzer tries to remain as "neutral" as a toaster, the guy obviously agrees she's an idiot. He almost laughed!

And I am still certain the debate will never happen.

I do love how you can kinda tell that Couric, while not treating her with kid gloves, asked straightforward, smart questions that'd allow any reasonably smart candidate to look smart in response to - she wasn't just playing gotcha.

Instead, she ended up with a look on her face like "Is Katie Couric gonna have to choke a bitch?"

 

[mj1108]

I have an hour and a half video of McCain not looking at Obama.

Beat me to it.

 

[rancor]

47 minutes into the debate. Not bad actually for either guy. I think you see clear difference between each candidate overall. The gaf play by play on this debate was terrible.

As usual. The reactions here can give anyone with a brain the shits. I lost count the amount of times I read 'OMFG stop the stuttering obama'. As if people give a shit about minor things like that.

 

[Socreges]

well i'm glad you added 'recently', though I assume the American people have memories exceeding a week when every news channel ever created was suggesting McCain's strength on foreign policy into the upcoming debate and was likewise saying Obama's oration skills did not carry over well into his near endless debates with Hillary Clinton.

if you're going to correct me, since i am apparently not able to watch "every news channel ever created" at all times simultaneously, as you are, do so with a little class. we're not putting on a show here

It is well known his debate performances are different from his teleprompter speeches.

no doubt. i said that he's raised expectations given that people have become ever more familiar with him.

ultimately i think obama's 'wins' should be credited to a more impressive performance, but then again when i do listen to network news analysts they praise tactics over content and don't reprimand deception (i suppose this is them attempting to mirror an ignorant american public), so god knows what is really going on

 

[Schlep]

I wish I'd seen the split screen parts of the debate. A few friends and I watched, reps and dems, so we decided to watch it on PBS HD instead of something that could be spin heavy. They never once showed a split screen, so I thought they were both good for different reasons. I feel like a radio listener of Nixon '60.

He is pretty Bideny though.

That's why we love him!

 

[Red Scarlet]

Is this debate available online anywhere yet? I don't feel like looking through 20+ pages of this thread and my searches haven't produced any results yet.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12968133&postcount=6831

 

[adamsappel]

ObamaGAFers were going nuts over Barack agreeing with McCain so many times, and everyone knew it was going to be immediately made into a commercial (and it was, poorly). But, how did the public see it? Is there any data on if they thought it reflected positively for Obama?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

go go go

Thanks so much!

 

[speculawyer]

Most of GAF thought McCain won or tied. Then every single news outlet came out saying their polls showed Obama won.

Pessimistic ObamaGAF hive.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

ObamaGAFers were going nuts over Barack agreeing with McCain so many times, and everyone knew it was going to be immediately made into a commercial (and it was, poorly). But, how did the public see it? Is there any data on if they thought it reflected positively for Obama?

I honestly didn't catch it that much.

 

[Tamanon]

Pessimistic ObamaGAF hive.

I still prefer Dominohnoez.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

ObamaGAFers were going nuts over Barack agreeing with McCain so many times, and everyone knew it was going to be immediately made into a commercial (and it was, poorly). But, how did the public see it? Is there any data on if they thought it reflected positively for Obama?

I can guarantee that the point when Obama praised McCain, and McCain attacked him in response was viewed as negative by independents.

 

[dark steve]

Is this common in the political threads? It sounds like a gold mine!

But it's too many posts.

Unfortunately, stuff like that is pretty rare and hard to catch up on, although it tends to generate a page or two when it happens.

That's why I take some time each day to read Conservapedia (and Rationalwiki). Healthy dose of alternative reality.

 

[Stoney Mason]

As usual. The reactions here can give anyone with a brain the shits. I lost count the amount of times I read 'OMFG stop the stuttering obama'. As if people give a shit about minor things like that.

LOL. So true. I was waiting for some stutterfest. Haven't seen it.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Thanks so much!

Thank Extollere. Maybe Amir0x will update the first post or mention to look at first post if he puts it in there..............

Stop slacking, Ami! This type of stuff is your forte.

 

[Tamanon]

Thank Extollere. Maybe Amir0x will update the first post or mention to look at first post if he puts it in there..............

Psst....Red....I think you can edit the post also!

 

[Red Scarlet]

Psst....Red....I think you can edit the post also!

That would be kinda weird.

 

[Learn2read]

I somehow missed the debate live as I feel asleep and for once in my life got my timezones wrong (EST is +2, not -2...d'oh!). But still, I probably would've been in the pessimist camp as I genuinely have no idea how the public perceives these things and just assume the worst.

 

[reilo]

Maher in response to Palin's "Putin over our airspace" comment:

"That was the sentence to nowhere. Forget the bridge to nowhere."

 

[Red Scarlet]

I somehow missed the debate live as I feel asleep and for once in my life got my timezones wrong (EST is +2, not -2...d'oh!). But still, I probably would've been in the pessimist camp as I genuinely have no idea how the public perceives these things and just assume the worst.

Look up a few of my posts for a link to the debate if you want to see it online.

I SO cannot wait for the VP one.

 

[kaching]

ObamaGAFers were going nuts over Barack agreeing with McCain so many times, and everyone knew it was going to be immediately made into a commercial (and it was, poorly). But, how did the public see it? Is there any data on if they thought it reflected positively for Obama?

I'm so glad I chose to just watch the debate rather than monitor GAF's response at the same time.

As a result, I'd like to lump myself in with "the public" and say that I thought it reflected very positively on Obama. As I said before, they're both running for the same office for the same country. I hope to hell they can acknowledge some common ground.

 

[reilo]

Oh my god :lol

Maher: "I'm not saying she is brain dead, but republicans had to pass a bill to keep the feeding tube in."
Maher: "I don't want to say she's a ditz, but last night my stripper's fake name was Sarah Palin."

 

[Mermandala]

While not as snappy sounding as "compassionate conservative", what Obama projected tonight to undecideds could be called "sensible liberal" hinting at the disintegration of a decades long fear tactic of the L-word possibly losing it's luster. Safe, Knowledgeable, Comfortable are all the things he really needed to be tonight, and he was.