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PoliGAF Thread of First Debate Election 2008 - GAF doesn't know shit

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C

CharlieDigital

Banned
soul creator said:
If the question is framed the latter way, I would imagine that most people would be a bit more hesitant to "hate" it. But everyone is still interpreting the "bailout" in the original 3-page Paulson plan sense, which was gotten rid of already. I think.
Click to expand...

The Draft of the Dodd/Paulson/Bipartisan proposal: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_ayo08b28.html

The GOP alternative: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/images/news/articles/economic-rescue-principles.pdf

Wiki is on top of this shit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_bailout_of_U.S._financial_system_(2008)
 
W

WickedAngel

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
Historically, they don't vote anyway. Perhaps when no-one can get a loan for college, the cost will come down. Empty rooms aren't doing them any good.

What about payroll? The people want to punish the banks and Wallstreet.
Click to expand...

The only team relying on the status quo this time around is the Republican party. The Democrats have shown impressive gains in both registration throughout the entire country.
 
T

TomServo

Junior Member
Door2Dawn said:
The popluar opinion doesn't even know what the bail out is for.
Click to expand...

So popular opinion (however uninformed) is against something, but causing that something to crater will hurt a politician in popular opinion?

1. Take a position against an unpopular concept
2. ???
3. Loss
 
S

Sharp

Member
Anyone who wants the public to support the plan needs to make it seem like it's punishing Wall Street in some way, since that's what everyone wants at this point. Unfortunately, at this point it'll be difficult to dislodge the already-present feeling that it's more of a reward for them, and since to some extent that will be true no matter what I'm not sure that getting the public on the side of such a bill is even going to be possible (well, unless they theoretically wait until the failures start to affect consumers). That's why Congress is going to push ahead with it even though it's unpopular, and that's why we are a republic and not a democracy.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
Historically, they don't vote anyway. Perhaps when no-one can get a loan for college, the cost will come down. Empty rooms aren't doing them any good.
Click to expand...

So they no longer deserve an education? You aren't required to vote. Just pay your taxes and you have EVERY RIGHT to government services and loans supported by the government. As long as that student paid $10.80 for a $9.99 t-shirt, they're covered in my book.
 
A

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
CharlieDigital said:
The Draft of the Dodd/Paulson/Bipartisan proposal: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_ayo08b28.html

The GOP alternative: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/images/news/articles/economic-rescue-principles.pdf
Click to expand...

I like the mortgage insurance approach--it's free market rather than taking money from the pocket of Joe Average to finance some New York banker's Obama campaign contribution. The free-market point just cannot be stressed enough: For example, the insurance could take the form of "trades" where private firms "insure" risks amongst each other so that risk can be spread and allocated to the appropriate private parties willing and able to bear that risk. The two key points: (1) No public money; (2) NO government involvement in the firm of ridiculous regulation a la the Community Reinvestment Act or the Securities Acts that have caused this mess (along with double taxation).
 
E

Evlar

Banned
AstroLad said:
I like the mortgage insurance approach--it's free market rather than taking money from the pocket of Joe Average to finance some New York banker's Obama campaign contribution. The free-market point just cannot be stressed enough: For example, the insurance could take the form of "trades" where private firms "insure" risks amongst each other so that risk can be spread and allocated to the appropriate private parties willing and able to bear that risk. The two key points: (1) No public money; (2) NO government involvement in the firm of ridiculous regulation a la the Community Reinvestment Act or the Securities Acts that have caused this mess (along with double taxation).
Click to expand...
Sometimes you're good, and sometimes you're godly. :lol
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Sharp said:
Anyone who wants the public to support the plan needs to make it seem like it's punishing Wall Street in some way, since that's what everyone wants at this point. Unfortunately, at this point it'll be difficult to dislodge the already-present feeling that it's more of a reward for them, and since to some extent that will be true no matter what I'm not sure that getting the public on the side of such a bill is even going to be possible (well, unless they theoretically wait until the failures start to affect consumers). That's why Congress is going to push ahead with it even though it's unpopular, and that's why we are a republic and not a democracy.
Click to expand...

.
 
T

TomServo

Junior Member
ronito said:
I just have to ask the simple question. If you didn't get your paycheck because the company you work for couldn't get credit would you be ok with that?
Click to expand...

You work for a company that needs credit to make payroll? Holy shit. I've worked for some companies with LOL financials, but even they had significant cash reserves. Credit was for financing long-term capital improvements.
 
E

Evlar

Banned
TomServo said:
You work for a company that needs credit to make payroll? Holy shit. I've worked for some companies with LOL financials, but even they had significant cash reserves. Credit was for financing long-term capital improvements.
Click to expand...
Can't help but notice you didn't answer the question.
 
A

artredis1980

Banned
McCain is uncomfortable talking about the economy

McCain says he is suspending his campaign and wants the debates delayed, causes chaos

McCain and Obama go to washington for the bailout talks

Debate will now have a focus on economy and McCain agrees to the debate





1 and 4 don't go together
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
So they no longer deserve an education? You aren't required to vote. Just pay your taxes and you have EVERY RIGHT to government services and loans supported by the government. As long as that student paid $10.80 for a $9.99 t-shirt, they're covered in my book.
Click to expand...

Really, who thinks about that when they hear $700 Billion bailout. You can argue the details, but no-one is going to listen. People want someone to pay. They would rather loose money in a market correction, then loose money bailing out the "too big too fail" crowd.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
TomServo said:
You work for a company that needs credit to make payroll? Holy shit. I've worked for some companies with LOL financials, but even they had significant cash reserves. Credit was for financing long-term capital improvements.
Click to expand...

Among service firms (i.e. consulting firms of many varieties, for example), it is common for the firm's incomes to come in large, widely-spaced blocks. For example, the firm's clients might make a lump-sum payment at a project's conclusion.

These firms, which comprise a significant portion of US employment, get short term financing to meet their payrolls in the meantime.

For a Big Expert On The Coming Apocalypse, it sure seems like you should have done a little more reading.

PrivateWHudson said:
Really, who thinks about that when they hear $700 Billion bailout. You can argue the details, but no-one is going to listen. People want someone to pay. They would rather loose money in a market correction, then loose money bailing out the "too big too fail" crowd.
Click to expand...

That works until they miss their first paycheck.
 
W

WaltJay

Member
artredis1980 said:
McCain is uncomfortable talking about the economy

McCain says he is suspending his campaign and wants the debates delayed, causes chaos

McCain and Obama go to washington for the bailout talks

Debate will now have a focus on economy and McCain agrees to the debate





1 and 4 don't go together
Click to expand...

True, but it's better than the alternative, which is Obama gets 90 mins of dedicated airtime with 40 million people.

McCain's latest Hail Mary..sorry, Fail Mary, didn't work. McCain put himself in a tough spot.
 
T

TomServo

Junior Member
Evlar said:
You would quit, then? That is your answer?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have accepted a job with them in the first place. That's like buying a ticket on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg.

Seriously, is this that common? Making payroll with borrowed funds?

EDIT:

gkrykewy said:
Among service firms (i.e. consulting firms of many varieties, for example), it is common for the firm's incomes to come in large, widely-spaced blocks. For example, the firm's clients might make a lump-sum payment at a project's conclusion.

These firms, which comprise a significant portion of US employment, get short term financing to meet their payrolls in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Good grief. I've seen small business startups dependent on startup capital to get the ball rolling, but persisting on revolving credit? We're in worse shape than I thought.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
TomServo said:
I wouldn't have accepted a job with them in the first place. That's like buying a ticket on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg.

Seriously, is this that common? Making payroll with borrowed funds?
Click to expand...

Yes. Not just payroll, but to purchase inventory and fund day-to-day operations using short term loans.
 
S

soul creator

Member
once again, chill the fuck out, McCain got this shit...even in the future!

26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG


could be fake though
 
C

Cyan

Banned
TomServo said:
I wouldn't have accepted a job with them in the first place. That's like buying a ticket on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg.

Seriously, is this that common? Making payroll with borrowed funds?
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
AstroLad said:
For example, the insurance could take the form of "trades" where private firms "insure" risks amongst each other so that risk can be spread and allocated to the appropriate private parties willing and able to bear that risk.
Click to expand...
:lol

Genius! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before!
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
gkrykewy said:
Among service firms (i.e. consulting firms of many varieties, for example), it is common for the firm's incomes to come in large, widely-spaced blocks. For example, the firm's clients might make a lump-sum payment at a project's conclusion.

These firms, which comprise a significant portion of US employment, get short term financing to meet their payrolls in the meantime.

For a Big Expert On The Coming Apocalypse, it sure seems like you should have done a little more reading.



That works until they miss their first paycheck.
Click to expand...

Sounds like bad business. Maybe they should have banked those lump-sum payments (at least enough to cover payroll). Fuck Em.
 
R

ronito

Member
TomServo said:
I wouldn't have accepted a job with them in the first place. That's like buying a ticket on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg.

Seriously, is this that common? Making payroll with borrowed funds?
Click to expand...
Dude, where do you work? Many, MANY companies make payroll on borrowed funds.

Personally I always check to see how much cash my company has on hand to make sure that's why I'm fine with the risk. But it's easy to say that many companies (especially VC companies such as pharamceuticals) make payroll on borrowed funds.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
CharlieDigital said:
Yes. Not just payroll, but to purchase inventory and fund day-to-day operations using short term loans.
Click to expand...

Really? Don't the vendors just establish a line of credit and set their own terms? I didn't think banks were ever involved in B2B lines of credit.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
ronito said:
Dude, where do you work? Many, MANY companies make payroll on borrowed funds.

Personally I always check to see how much cash my company has on hand to make sure that's why I'm fine with the risk. But it's easy to say that many companies (especially VC companies such as pharamceuticals) make payroll on borrowed funds.
Click to expand...

Bingo. This is why the bailout needs to happen to stabilize credit flow.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
TomServo said:
I wouldn't have accepted a job with them in the first place. That's like buying a ticket on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg.

Seriously, is this that common? Making payroll with borrowed funds?
Click to expand...

It's very common in medical professions or jobs that take a bit of time to get income, via billing or insurance. And EXTREMELY common if working for a non-profit.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Told ya McCain would set things up so he would be against the bill and attempt to take angry Americans as support.

He's gonna be all out on how his proposal is good for taxpayers, and Obama's isn't, tonight, forcing Obama to basically either agree or defend Paulson's plan.

And I told you markets wouldn't crash today.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Ether_Snake said:
Told ya McCain would set things up so he would be against the bill and attempt to take angry Americans as support.

He's gonna be all out on how his proposal is good for taxpayers, and Obama's isn't, tonight, forcing Obama to basically either agree or defend Paulson's plan.
Click to expand...

What? McCain still hasn't even taken a stance on the bailout. Nobody knows whether or not he supports it, or even if he's read it yet.:lol
 
M

Mason

Member
Personally, I think the McCain campaign thought out all the scenarios before deciding to do this 'suspension' thing. I don't have time to list them all out because I have to head to class soon, but as far as just the debate goes:

1) The bailout proposal passes by Friday (a day or so after McCain gets there) and he takes credit for it and heads to the debate as a hero.

2) The bailout proposal doesn't pass by Friday, but around noon, McCain declares enough progress has been made that he will go through with the debate.

Either way, tons of publicity for him and he gets to act like he did something while Barack 'did nothing'. And it's worked. He's been the headline the past 2 days. Luckily his ratings are tanking, but he still got the attention he wanted.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
Ether_Snake said:
Told ya McCain would set things up so he would be against the bill and attempt to take angry Americans as support.

He's gonna be all out on how his proposal is good for taxpayers, and Obama's isn't, tonight, forcing Obama to basically either agree or defend Paulson's plan.

And I told you markets wouldn't crash today.
Click to expand...

Obama will be up to the task. Markets are still pricing in a 100% chance of a deal.

And once again, McCain, on Wednesday, said that if there isn't a deal by Friday, there will be financial Armageddon on Monday. He does not speak from a stance of conscientious objector on this.
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
WaltJay said:
True, but it's better than the alternative, which is Obama gets 90 mins of dedicated airtime with 40 million people.

McCain's latest Hail Mary..sorry, Fail Mary, didn't work. McCain put himself in a tough spot.
Click to expand...

Myth. The commission said that the townhall that would have supposedly replaced the debate would have been illegal and couldn't happen.
 
F

Fatalah

Member
Tamanon said:
What? McCain still hasn't even taken a stance on the bailout. Nobody knows whether or not he supports it, or even if he's read it yet.:lol
Click to expand...

From what I understand McCain wants the bailout to be done, but he wants to tack on partisan goals to the bill like deregulation and cutting taxes.

Which is what led to this crisis in the first place..
 
D

DeathbyVolcano

Banned
Jesus, I have a horrible feeling about all of this. These fuckawful iReporters on CNN are saying this bailout plans "means nothing for 'Murca now mah investments MAH INVESTMENTS TAXES UGHH" and McCain's new horrible plan is catering exactly to these morons.

Obama is doomed
 
T

TomServo

Junior Member
ronito said:
Dude, where do you work? Many, MANY companies make payroll on borrowed funds.
Click to expand...

I'm an engineer in an old-school discipline. I've always worked for companies that produce tangible products first, with service and consulting as gravy.

Like I said earlier, we borrow, but it's for long term capital improvements. Even on long product cycles there are significant cash reserves.

You learn something new every day.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Mason said:
Personally, I think the McCain campaign thought out all the scenarios before deciding to do this 'suspension' thing. I don't have time to list them all out because I have to head to class soon, but as far as just the debate goes:

1) The bailout proposal passes by Friday (a day or so after McCain gets there) and he takes credit for it and heads to the debate as a hero.

2) The bailout proposal doesn't pass by Friday, but around noon, McCain declares enough progress has been made that he will go through with the debate.

Either way, tons of publicity for him and he gets to act like he did something while Barack 'did nothing'. And it's worked. He's been the headline the past 2 days. Luckily his ratings are tanking, but he still got the attention he wanted.
Click to expand...


--->
McCain had vowed to skip the debate if negotiations were not completed on a $700 billion rescue of the U.S. financial industry but his campaign said in a statement that enough progress had been made to participate in the 9 p.m. EDT (0100 GMT) debate.
Click to expand...
 
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