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PoliGAF Thread of THE END and FIST POUNDS (NYT: Hillary drop out/endorse Saturday)

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S

sangreal

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I love it. It's almost like it's mocking her. :lol


I doubt it. Now that the primaries are over and we're all sort of catching our breath (including Hillary, who should be able to take a step back, not immediately concede), the media is mostly speculating on the VP situation. Nobody's thunder has been stolen, the big story of the week has been that Obama is the nominee, not that Clinton didn't drop out.

Now, let me ask you: Would you rather have had Hillary drop out yesterday at the event she was at, or on Friday at a big event, next to Obama, as she announces that she's not only dropping out, but she's also endorsing him?
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Like most of us told you last night, its not that she didn't concede. Its that, despite knowing she would be conceding soon, she chose to make the argument that she won the popular vote and that she won the big states

The fact that she didn't concede was an annoyance, but not the main problem
 
3

3rdman

Member
the disgruntled gamer said:
I love it. It's almost like it's mocking her. :lol


I doubt it. Now that the primaries are over and we're all sort of catching our breath (including Hillary, who should be able to take a step back, not immediately concede), the media is mostly speculating on the VP situation. Nobody's thunder has been stolen, the big story of the week has been that Obama is the nominee, not that Clinton didn't drop out.

Now, let me ask you: Would you rather have had Hillary drop out yesterday at the event she was at, or on Friday at a big event, next to Obama, as she announces that she's not only dropping out, but she's also endorsing him?
Click to expand...
I think you're missing the point...What she should have done yesterday was NOTHING. It was not her day! Instead she dropped the VP bomb in the early afternoon and still that is all anyone is talking about. She ignored the historic moment in favor of her own vanity and it's pretty difficult to forgive. She could have congratulated him on his historic run, acknowledge his moment and leave the door open for whatever they had planned.

That concession speech better be good...as Randy Rhodes said today, "She spent the rest of her political capital yesterday".
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
the disgruntled gamer said:
I doubt it. Now that the primaries are over and we're all sort of catching our breath (including Hillary, who should be able to take a step back, not immediately concede), the media is mostly speculating on the VP situation. Nobody's thunder has been stolen, the big story of the week has been that Obama is the nominee, not that Clinton didn't drop out.
Click to expand...
I know that I tuned into MSNBC for 30-40 minutes today and the only topic I saw discussed was Hillary.

Now, let me ask you: Would you rather have had Hillary drop out yesterday at the event she was at, or on Friday at a big event, next to Obama, as she announces that she's not only dropping out, but she's also endorsing him?
Click to expand...
Why does it have to be one or the other? She could have given a fine speech that didn't continue to rile up her base with make-believe metrics of success. She could have acknowledged Obama's accomplishment. There's no reason why she couldn't have given a speech that celebrated her successes, conceded (or otherwise indicated it was generally over), and then looked onward to helping kick McCain's ass in November. She could have spent all week easing her supporters into that mindset before actually appearing with Obama. But instead she had to embrace all of her worst narcissistic tendencies and put herself above everyone and everything else.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
I just had to get my laptop so I could MSNBC and GAF at the same time.

EPIC NEWS!

*skeet*
 
D

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
GhaleonEB said:
Here's a quote for the ages: Our problem is not being able to determine when the hell the end is.”
Click to expand...

OMG that truly is the best quote ever!
 
T

thekad

Banned
"I am sad to inform you, my millions of supporters, that I must suspend my historic campaign. But I am glad now to throw my endorsement and full support behind Senator... John McCain."

It will happen.
 
T

TDG

Banned
sangreal said:
Like most of us told you last night, its not that she didn't concede. Its that, despite knowing she would be conceding soon, she chose to make the argument that she won the popular vote and that she won the big states

The fact that she didn't concede was an annoyance, but not the main problem
Click to expand...
Her speech last night was very much more "this is what I've been fighting for, these are my values," than "Look at how great I am."

She briefly touched on what her campaign accomplished, likely to comfort the Clinton people (they aren't stupid, they know it's over) and to remind people of how well-suited she (in her mind) is to be his running mate.

I honestly can't see how that's worth the amount of extreme butt-hurtness that was coming from a lot of people, including the "I'M SORRY BUT EVEN IF I'M BANNED I MUST PROCLAIM THAT HILLARY IS A TOTAL..." people. It was crazy.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Can someone explain what the difference is between suspending the campaign and conceding?

What are the implications and what doors does this leave open?
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I'm still thinking epic disappointment Friday. How many times have we been told to expect her concession?

My cynical expectations.

80udnc6.gif



RubxQub said:
Can someone explain what the difference is between suspending the campaign and conceding?

What are the implications and what doors does this leave open?
Click to expand...

I think there are many small differences. The main one is that she can still raise money for her campaign with a suspension, helping her pay it off. If she flat out drops out, she's stuck with her campaign debt.
 
D

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
RubxQub said:
Can someone explain what the difference is between suspending the campaign and conceding?

What are the implications and what doors does this leave open?
Click to expand...

You and me both.... drop some knowledge on us!
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
RubxQub said:
Can someone explain what the difference is between suspending the campaign and conceding?

What are the implications and what doors does this leave open?
Click to expand...
it's over - that's it. the difference is pure semantics.

edit: wow at Rangel - he is really upset at Clinton after last night. rumor is he and a host of congressional members pressured her in a conference call today.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Nothing like saving the endorsement for the very end of the news week.
 
D

Diablos

Member
Dan said:
Nothing like saving the endorsement for the very end of the news week.
Click to expand...
I wish she'd just suspend it, like, oh... I dunno, now?!

What's the difference? She knows she's done. Just suspend now.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
Diablos said:
I wish she'd just suspend it, like, oh... I dunno, now?!

What's the difference? She knows she's done. Just suspend now.
Click to expand...
needs to write a speech (i doubt she had anything pre-written as Clintonland knows no defeat);
needs to lick her wounds.

Friday is just fine for me. :D
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Found this good description:

For you non-politicos, confused by the differing reports, pull up chair...

There is effectively very little difference between "suspending" a campaign and "concedeing."

If a candidate opts to suspend, they keep their delegates. Technically, they remain in the race and can still get the nomination. Is it going to happen? No.

If Clinton "conceded," all of her delegates would go over to Obama. She doesn't want that. She opted to "suspend" rather than officially "concede" in order to keep her delegates.
Click to expand...
So basically suspending your campaign is a slimey way of quitting. If she was 100% committed to dropping out, she would have conceded.

Just in case he gets shot I'm sure!
 
T

TDG

Banned
Dan said:
I know that I tuned into MSNBC for 30-40 minutes today and the only topic I saw discussed was Hillary.
Click to expand...
Most of what I've seen from the MSM has been non-stop masturbating about Obama's historic win. The mentions of Hillary have all been within Obama discussions. When (not will) she concede, and will she be the VP?


Dan said:
But instead she had to embrace all of her worst narcissistic tendencies and put herself above everyone and everything else.
Click to expand...
You know, I get the feeling a lot of people haven't considered this, but it's quite possible that she believes that it's best to drop out at an event with Obama, so they can stand with their hands up in the air and declare the party united, and believes that Obama's best shot of winning is for her to be on the ticket, so she needs to make her case.

I'd be inclined to agree with her on the former, not the latter.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
RubxQub said:
Found this good description:


So basically suspending your campaign is a slimey way of quitting. If she was 100% committed to dropping out, she would have conceded.

Just in case he gets shot I'm sure!
Click to expand...
Edwards suspended. what an asshole!

Clinton's superdelegates are free to switch as they want.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
the disgruntled gamer said:
Her speech last night was very much more "this is what I've been fighting for, these are my values," than "Look at how great I am."

She briefly touched on what her campaign accomplished, likely to comfort the Clinton people (they aren't stupid, they know it's over) and to remind people of how well-suited she (in her mind) is to be his running mate.

I honestly can't see how that's worth the amount of extreme butt-hurtness that was coming from a lot of people, including the "I'M SORRY BUT EVEN IF I'M BANNED I MUST PROCLAIM THAT HILLARY IS A TOTAL..." people. It was crazy.
Click to expand...
SHE REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OBAMA CLEARED THE MAGICAL DELEGATE NUMBER. No sane politician does something like that without indicating to the world that they're considering drastic steps.

She didn't so much as go over her campaign's accomplishments as make the case for her nomination again. She again spouted the twisted popular vote bullshit. Again with the utterly retarded electoral college argument. Again with the big states, swing states.

SHE WAS INTRODUCED AS "THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES".

C'mon!
 
D

Diablos

Member
Honestly, after how she basically tried to defy him one last time on the night of his historic win -- she doesn't deserve to be on the ticket. Hillary fans will have to suck it up. If they're dumb enough to vote McCain, then they deserve whatever the hell happens to this country under another four years of GOP White House leadership. She should be ashamed of herself.

The Clintons will be best remembered for what they did in the 90's (yeah I know [insert Monica joke here] hur hur]), but there's really nothing wrong with that. Nothing good lasts forever, and the Clinton machine is no exception.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Dan said:
SHE REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OBAMA CLEARED THE MAGICAL DELEGATE NUMBER. No sane politician does something like that without indicating to the world that they're considering drastic steps.

She didn't so much as go over her campaign's accomplishments as make the case for her nomination again. She again spouted the twisted popular vote bullshit. Again with the utterly retarded electoral college argument. Again with the big states, swing states.

SHE WAS INTRODUCED AS "THE NEXT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES".

C'mon!
Click to expand...
this
 
G

Goreomedy

Console Market Analyst
There'd better be a complete attitude change from Clinton come Friday. If it takes until then to shake off the bitterness, fine. But come out strong for Obama, or risk being called out on a transparent sabotage attempt by even your closest supporters...
 
T

TDG

Banned
Dan said:
SHE REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT OBAMA CLEARED THE MAGICAL DELEGATE NUMBER. No sane politician does something like that without indicating to the world that they're considering drastic steps.

She didn't so much as go over her campaign's accomplishments as make the case for her nomination again. She again spouted the twisted popular vote bullshit. Again with the utterly retarded electoral college argument. Again with the big states, swing states.
Click to expand...
I don't know if we watched the same speech, because I remember her spending about 45 seconds congratulating Obama on the admirable campaign he has run, 60 seconds talking about the popular vote and all that, and the rest of the time talking about what her goals are, and how people have inspired her as she's campaigned. it was hardly party-destroying material.

Now, yes, she didn't acknowledge that Obama had won, but acknowledging his win means dropping out, and she wasn't ready to do this. And frankly, considering she'll do that on friday in much more dramatic fashion, I don't really see anything wrong with that.
 
C

camineet

Banned
With Hill apparently out of the way, the general election campaign begins:

MCCAIN CHALLENGE TO OBAMA: TEN JOINT TOWNHALLS



June 4, 2008

The Honorable Barack Obama
Obama for America
P.O. Box 8102
Chicago, Illinois 60680

Dear Senator Obama:

In 1963, Senator Barry Goldwater and President John F. Kennedy agreed to make presidential campaign history by flying together from town to town and debating each other face-to-face on the same stage. In Goldwater's words, those debates "would have done the country a lot of good." Unfortunately, with President Kennedy's untimely death, Americans lost the rare opportunity of witnessing candidates for the highest office in the land discuss civilly and extensively the great issues at stake in the election. What a welcome change it would be were presidential candidates in our time to treat each other and the people they seek to lead with respect and courtesy as they discussed the great issues of the day, without the empty sound bites and media-filtered exchanges that dominate our elections. It is in the spirit of President Kennedy's and Senator Goldwater's agreement, in the spirit of the politics of change, and to do our country good, that I invite you to join me in participating in town hall meetings across the country to discuss the most important issues facing Americans. I also suggest we fly together to the first town hall meeting as a symbolically important act embracing the politics of civility.

I propose these town hall meetings be as free from the regimented trappings, rules and spectacle of formal debates as possible, and that we pledge to the American people we will not allow the idea to die on the negotiation table as our campaigns work out the details. I suggest we agree to participate in at least ten town halls once a week with the first on June 11 or 12 in New York City at Federal Hall until the week before the Democratic Convention begins at locations to be determined by our campaigns.Ê Federal Hall is particularly fitting as it was the place where George Washington took the oath of office as our first President and the birthplace of American government hosting the first Congress, Supreme Court and Executive Branch offices. These town halls should be attended by an audience of between two to four hundred selected by an independent polling agency, could be sixty to ninety minutes in length, have very limited moderation by an independent local moderator, take blind questions from the audience selected by the moderator and allow for equally proportional time for answers by each of us. All of these are suggestions that can be finalized by our campaigns. What is important is that we commit to participate in these history making meetings to join in the higher level of discourse that Americans clearly would prefer.

To show our good faith, we should both commit to the first town hall I have suggested. In the mean time, we can work out dates for future town hall meetings.

I look forward to your favorable reply and to the opportunity to work with you to give Americans a better opportunity to understand our differences, our agreements and the leadership we offer them.

Sincerely,

John McCain
Click to expand...
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
camineet said:
With Hill apparently out of the way, the general election campaign begins:
Click to expand...
This story makes McCain look young.
 
Keylime

Keylime

ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
Diablos said:
Advisors in Obama campaign: "Obama/Clinton ticket highly unlikely"

WWWOOOOOOOOOO
Click to expand...
Linky?
 
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