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PolliGaf 2012 |OT5| Big Bird, Binders, Bayonets, Bad News and Benghazi

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Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Poor guy. If(when) Obama is re-elected, he'll probably lose what's left of his sanity.

The last time I personally heard anything from him, he was claiming that in 15 years some kind of "statute of limitations" would run on on "archived documents" that proved Obama was actually the figurehead for a conspiracy to destroy the economy and make it look like Bush did it.

That is the reason I stopped talking to him voluntarily.
 

ido

Member
That's right. Obama stole an election. By asking people to vote for him.

It's really difficult to imagine living in these people's heads. I cannot wrap my brain around how stupid they are when it comes to critically thinking. Their thought process when it comes to politics is pretty much, "Hold on, let me listen to Fox News, Michael Savage, Rush or Hannity so I can know what my opinion will be."

Today he said Obama, while in the oval office, watched the four people die in Benghazi on a drone camera. Watched it... live, as it was happening. Then I think he mumbled something about Obama being secretly gay, and Muslim.

I know it sounds like I'm making this stuff up, but I assure you these people exist, and I work with them.
 

markatisu

Member
Dems only have a 60k vote lead in Iowa. I'm starting to believe Romney can squeak out a win there, given polls showing him having a large lead among voters who haven't voted yet.

A lot of the voters who have not voted yet live in rural areas and won't make up any difference

Its been over for quite some time, his appearances here are more an attempt to sway our neighbors in WI then anything else which is why he went to the eastern border and not the 3 big population centers
 

HylianTom

Banned
I could, but the answer would be, "And you believe those lies? You need to start listening to real news."

Seriously, I live in MS. It can be more ignorant than you can imagine.

And why does water taste different out of my bathroom sink compared to my kitchen sink?
I can vouch for you on Mississippi. My years at Ole Miss back in the 90s were a real eye-opener.

Too many times, when everyone present in a room or conversation were white, folks would assume that everyone present felt a certain way about liberals/Democrats/{euphemism for African Americans}. In a sick way, it was like being undercover, getting to see how these folks really feel.

I've run into this plenty of times in Louisiana and Alabama as well, so it isn't by any means exclusive to Mississippi. I know that I can take a strident line towards Republicans here.. but having lived among their base for so long, the thought processes, the celebration of ignorance, and too many occurrences as described above have hardened me over time to the point where I want to see complete annihilation of their party.
 

ido

Member
I've run into this plenty of times in Louisiana and Alabama as well, so it isn't by any means exclusive to Mississippi. I know that I can take a strident line towards Republicans here.. but having lived among their base for so long, the thought processes, the celebration of ignorance, and too many occurrences as described above have hardened me over time to the point where I want to see complete annihilation of their party.

Thank you.

I do hate and love my state, but I absolutely want it to change for the better. There are people unlike the ones you and I mentioned here, even though MS tends to scare them away. I say that we stay, and force a change here over time. It cannot stay this stultifying forever.

And yes, the crazies seem to love referring to black people as "Democrats" as a secret way to talk about them in public. It's fucking disheartening.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
Do you know if it's a 30% increase, or a 30% increase over what would have been without Obamacare, because I thought it was the latter?


This seems to also be a large part of the increase:



Seems like with combining a high risk pool of people into the individual market that means the individual market's costs will, obviously, go up. But that's also assuming the subsidies in place aren't used.
I think it's the latter, because he's factoring in the introduction of the exchanges. Here's a basic overview of the increase:

Prior to the application of tax subsidies 87% of the individual market will experience an average premium increase of 41%. The average increase for the entire Individual Market will be 30%. After the application of tax subsidies 59% of the individual market will experience an average premium increase of 31%. This is mostly due to the rating and product limitation changes, the merging of the HIRSP population into the Individual Market and the introduction of the new exchange. Approximately 40% of the current Individual Market is enrolled in benefit plans that have an actuarial value below the ACA minimum.

It should be noted that we did not model the impact of the reinsurance program in the exchange which may alleviate the premium increases. In addition, we have assumed the existing HIRSP subsidies will not be used to mitigate the premium changes in the Individual Market. If they were used, we believe the Individual Market premiums could be reduced by approximately 10%.

I found article where Jon Gruber was saying that critics cherry-picked data from his report and he thinks HCR is a good thing.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/...cle_c929f5a6-d054-11e0-ba1d-001cc4c002e0.html

I haven't thoroughly investigated this particular issue since I've given up on believing anything that comes from the Romney camp.
Jon Gruber was one of the main architects, or at least a major adviser, on the structural elements of the health reform bill. If people are citing him to claim that the ACA doesn't work, then they've probably taken him out of context.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
Not seeing it on either side of the debate. Care to elaborate?

You must have had it on mute. Bill Maher should have just put him in a giant bubble for the entire episode. The guy's either a fucking moron or a professional bullshitter. My money's on the latter, possibly both.

He also looks like Michael Cera.
 

Chumly

Member
Do you know if it's a 30% increase, or a 30% increase over what would have been without Obamacare, because I thought it was the latter?


This seems to also be a large part of the increase:



Seems like with combining a high risk pool of people into the individual market that means the individual market's costs will, obviously, go up. But that's also assuming the subsidies in place aren't used.

Looking further into it it appears that it will be a 30% increase with the implementation in 2014 (pre subsidies)

6. Individual Market Premium Impacts due to ACA
Reforms – Before Implementation of Tax Subsidy
There are many changes that will take place in CY 2014 that will affect premiums within
the Individual Market. Some changes will affect just portions of the Individual Market
and others will affect the Market as a whole. We have focused our modeling and
assumptions on the five categories of change listed below. These premium impacts are
shown prior to the implementation of the federal tax subsidy. There will be a portion of
the Individual Market that will be eligible for these subsidies. We have shown the results
including the tax subsidy in Section 7. Additional information on methodology can be
found in the Appendix.
(1) The impact of rating limitations: As outlined in Section 4.2, Wisconsin
insurance carriers will no longer be able to rate this market using their current
rating methodologies. The rating requirements set forth within the ACA will
force carriers to cross subsidize premiums across age demographics, gender, and
health status. This in effect will create “winners & losers”. That is, some
members will receive rate increases and some will receive rate decreases.
However, we believe the rating limitation changes alone will not affect overall
premiums.

(2) The impact of product limitations: While the essential benefits coverage has yet
to be defined, we believe benefits such as pharmacy, maternity and behavioral
health will be included. This will affect a portion of the market as indicated in
Section 4.4. In addition, we believe that the minimum actuarial value allowed in
2014 will be 0.60. This will require some members within the market to “buy up”
and will therefore result in premium increases.
Finally, the practice of
exclusionary riders will no longer be allowed. We have estimated the premium
impact due to product limitations to the entire Individual Market to be 6% to 7%.

(3) The impact of merging the Wisconsin HIRSP with the Individual Market: In
CY 2014, we have assumed that the Wisconsin HIRSP and the Individual Market
WI HIRSP WI Individual Marketwill be one rating pool. In addition, we have assumed the provider subsidies and
insurer assessments used specifically to subsidize the HIRSP population will no
longer exist. If these subsidies were applied to the combined Individual and
HIRSP Market we believe premiums could be reduced by approximately 10%.
In
the absence of these subsidies, we estimate that merging the HIRSP Market with
the existing Individual Market will increase overall premiums for the Individual
Market by 16%.

(4) The impact of the new exchange market: In CY 2014, with the introduction of
the individual mandate and the tax subsidies provided within the exchange, there
will also be new Individual Market entrants.
These new Individual Market
members will come primarily from the uninsured and to a lesser extent from
employer sponsored insurance. These new members will have an impact on the
existing Individual Market premiums and the magnitude of the impact will
depend on how their risk profile compares to the risk profile of the Individual
Market. This last modeling exercise was performed by Dr. Gruber using his
microsimulation model (GMSIM). Neither we nor Dr. Gruber have incorporated
in our modeling the impact of the risk adjustment, reinsurance, and risk corridor
programs that are mandated by the ACA, which may mitigate premium changes
due to the law. In the absence of these programs, we find that premiums for the
entire Individual Market may increase an additional 13%.

(5) Managed Competition Effect: The introduction of an exchange and
corresponding tax subsidies provides insurers with a membership growth
opportunity. Insurers may strive to achieve efficiencies which may lead to lower
premiums within the exchange. Dr. Gruber has assumed a 7.5% reduction in
premiums due to this effect,
which follows the efficiencies assumed by the CBO
in their analysis (and is consistent with evidence from the benefits of managed
competition in the Wisconsin state employees program).

You can kind of go over the summary of whats causes the increases. Also it looks like a few things in this study weren't taken into account which actually might lower the premiums.
 

AniHawk

Member
Daily Kos; website is down right now, but it was in Kos' breakdown of battleground state early voting today

ah okay. i wanted to see what the numbers were and the perecentage of votes cast so far. that would give an idea of what romney would have to overcome on election day.
 

ISOM

Member
What??? Hasn't every national poll shown a 10% minimum lead in easy voting for Obama? I think this is contrary to everyone.

Yeah that's what I was saying it seems gallup whether I'm right or wrong is choosing to pick things that are favorable to romney.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
The Iowa early voting is about a 60,000 Democrat lead out of 470,000 total votes. 209,000 Democrats vs. 151,000 Republicans.
 
Most of the early voting they focused on were in swing states, and this poll looked at it nationally.
So did Reuters ipsos which has it +15 for Obama nationally.

Gallup has the west and Midwest first and third in early voting. Obama is winning both right now so unless the south has some magic early voting it makes no sense
 

HylianTom

Banned
The idea that we may be flying into Election Day blindly with respect to national numbers is a bit fascinating. I think this may be the first time in modern campaign history where we simply won't know for sure.

On the other hand, state numbers.. hehe.. :)

and for reference: Obama won Iowa by 10% in 2008.
Obama: 818,240
McCain: 677,508
 

RDreamer

Member
So did Reuters ipsos which has it +15 for Obama nationally.

Gallup has the west and Midwest first and third in early voting. Obama is winning both right now so unless the south has some magic early voting it makes no sense

Again, I think Gallup seems to be so much of an outlier that their methodology is suspect.

Everyone else is pointing to a national tie, but Gallup is pretty consistently off in one direction. Something's up with their methodology pushing it that way, and it doesn't surprise me if early voting is off in that direction, too.
 
Ha.

OFAsg.png

perfect
 
Poor guy. If(when) Obama is re-elected, he'll probably lose what's left of his sanity.

His hair is getting whiter and whiter. That national security briefing after the first election started the gray hairs for Obama.....

It's really difficult to imagine living in these people's heads. I cannot wrap my brain around how stupid they are when it comes to critically thinking. Their thought process when it comes to politics is pretty much, "Hold on, let me listen to Fox News, Michael Savage, Rush or Hannity so I can know what my opinion will be."

Today he said Obama, while in the oval office, watched the four people die in Benghazi on a drone camera. Watched it... live, as it was happening. Then I think he mumbled something about Obama being secretly gay, and Muslim.

I know it sounds like I'm making this stuff up, but I assure you these people exist, and I work with them.
I believe you. Do you believe in love after love?
 

AniHawk

Member
The Iowa early voting is a 60,000 Democrat lead out of 470,000 total votes. 209,000 Democrats vs. 151,000 Republicans.

thanks.

so let's say that's out of the 2008 total. that's 31.33% of what 2008 looked like (1.5m votes)

to win the day, republicans have to outvote democrats about 53-46 on election day.
 

pigeon

Banned
The Iowa early voting is about a 60,000 Democrat lead out of 470,000 total votes. 209,000 Democrats vs. 151,000 Republicans.

There were 1.5 million votes in Iowa in 2008, so that's a 4% lead with 66% still to play for. Romney needs more than a 6% lead among the remainder of Iowans to win.
 

HylianTom

Banned
The great thing about being down South for this is that the tears here are some of the tastiest produced in the country. People are going be talkin' 'bout buyin'-up more ammo before the Kenyan outlaws guns, they'll be upping their prepping for when the country collapses, they'll be whining on local AM radio incessantly about the welfare state (before returning to the Blue State teat for more goodies).

The main sad thing is that I really fear violence happening at some point. Gay pride? Black churches? Another Gabby incident? These fuckers are armed, not living in reality, and scary. I'll be collecting online tears, oh yes, but have decided to play it cool in real life. :/
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
There were 1.5 million votes in Iowa in 2008, so that's a 4% lead with 66% still to play for. Romney needs more than a 6% lead among the remainder of Iowans to win.

Which seems basically insurmountable.

So...are there any valid concerns that the early votes won't be tallied and ready for a decision by the end of the night?
 

Smiley90

Stop shitting on my team. Start shitting on my finger.
The great thing about being down South for this is that the tears here are some of the tastiest produced in the country. People are going be talkin' 'bout buyin'-up more ammo before the Kenyan outlaws guns, they'll be upping their prepping for when the country collapses, they'll be whining on local AM radio incessantly about the welfare state (before returning to the Blue State teat for more goodies).

The main sad thing is that I really fear violence happening at some point. Gay pride? Black churches? Another Gabby incident? These fuckers are armed, not living in reality, and scary. I'll be collecting online tears, oh yes, but have decided to play it cool in real life. :/

If people didn't believe you were from the south before this, then now they will for sure.
 

Realyst

Member
Nate Sliver knows about PoliGaf. We are popular on the internet.

I'll put it this way: if even the Obama campaign was aware of the existence of this site back during the 2008 campaign, it would be a good bet to say that Nate Silver has visited here.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
I'll put it this way: if even the Obama campaign was aware of the existence of this site back during the 2008 campaign, it would be a good bet to say that Nate Silver has visited here.

They were? I hope they didn't read any diablos posts. They would suicide.
 

ido

Member
The great thing about being down South for this is that the tears here are some of the tastiest produced in the country. People are going be talkin' 'bout buyin'-up more ammo before the Kenyan outlaws guns, they'll be upping their prepping for when the country collapses, they'll be whining on local AM radio incessantly about the welfare state (before returning to the Blue State teat for more goodies).

The main sad thing is that I really fear violence happening at some point. Gay pride? Black churches? Another Gabby incident? These fuckers are armed, not living in reality, and scary. I'll be collecting online tears, oh yes, but have decided to play it cool in real life. :/

You make me sad to be here. Don't make me sad.

You forgot that they will go sell everything and buy gold, and bury it, because the dollar isn't worth anything and China will own us if Obama gets re-elected.
 

RDreamer

Member
I'll put it this way: if even the Obama campaign was aware of the existence of this site back during the 2008 campaign, it would be a good bet to say that Nate Silver has visited here.

The Obama campaign made known they were aware of this site somehow during the 08 campaign?
 
There's this guy who used to be a distant friend a few years ago. Then he went batshit crazy when Obama was elected. A bit ago I found out he's been telling everyone who will listen conspiracy theories about Obama. His favorite one is insisting that Obama "stole" the election in 2008. How did Obama steal the election?

Because Obama "used the internet". And how, did Obama use the internet?

"Obama had young people go online and convince people to vote for him. He wouldn't have won if he hadn't used the internet to steal votes."

That's right. Obama stole an election. By asking people to vote for him.
Wow. That is pretty zen conspiracy theory. Obama is guilty campaigning. How do we know something was done wrong? Because Obama did it.



It still doesn't beat "Look at all the hybrid cars on the road!"
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
You make me sad to be here. Don't make me sad.

You forgot that they will go sell everything and buy gold, and bury it, because the dollar isn't worth anything and China will own us if Obama gets re-elected.

For what it's worth, whoever invested in gold back in the day (a few years ago) is several times richer now.
 
I can vouch for you on Mississippi. My years at Ole Miss back in the 90s were a real eye-opener.

Too many times, when everyone present in a room or conversation were white, folks would assume that everyone present felt a certain way about liberals/Democrats/{euphemism for African Americans}. In a sick way, it was like being undercover, getting to see how these folks really feel.

I've run into this plenty of times in Louisiana and Alabama as well, so it isn't by any means exclusive to Mississippi. I know that I can take a strident line towards Republicans here.. but having lived among their base for so long, the thought processes, the celebration of ignorance, and too many occurrences as described above have hardened me over time to the point where I want to see complete annihilation of their party.

My employer has only white employees at the moment.

The conversations that go on, man. One time I was straight up asked: All else being equal, would you honestly vote for the black guy for president?

That was after a twenty minute conversation about why Jews are so cheap. I don't think a single one of them has ever met an actual Jewish person.
 

HylianTom

Banned
You make me sad to be here. Don't make me sad.

You forgot that they will go sell everything and buy gold, and bury it, because the dollar isn't worth anything and China will own us if Obama gets re-elected.
Sorry about that. It's a mechanism of mine. Forgot about the gold part. You nailed it - gold and heirloom seeds.

On the bright side, Obama's re-election will help these states over the long term, even if we're being dragged along into the future.
 

markatisu

Member
Which seems basically insurmountable.

So...are there any valid concerns that the early votes won't be tallied and ready for a decision by the end of the night?

Not one, the state is fully automated the process. It takes them less than 1 day to get you a notification your vote has been counted.

We good in Iowa despite PD's attempt to make you guys think otherwise
 
Muslim President caught driving around in that union thug built 'Government Motors' hippie green car.

President Obama reveals secret Chevy Volt joy ride to Jay Leno

President Barack Obama has been near a Chevrolet Volt before, but he never got to drive one more than a few feet. That changed recently when a Volt-driving friend came to the White House for a visit and let Obama take it for a spin on the grounds.

It became the source of a "secret" the president revealed to Jay Leno last week on The Tonight Show. Secret Service agents didn't like it very much, and made sure the gates were shut tight so that the president couldn't race down the streets of Washington "That was my big joy ride. Three times around the South Lawn driveway," Obama joked with Leno. "It was wild."
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/10/29/president-obama-reveals-secret-chevy-volt-joy-ride-to-jay-leno/
 

Realyst

Member
Not to sound too Deep Throat-y about this stuff, but even some of you here realized how meta some of the events have been that played out...then and now. The whole Gaf->Internet->Gaf loop in action.
 
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