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PolliGaf 2012 |OT5| Big Bird, Binders, Bayonets, Bad News and Benghazi

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I

ido

Member
Rush says Romney is pretty much taking Michigan and that right now it is a tie.

He's so smart. "Polls are dumb... Oh wait, this one isn't."
 
P

Paches

Member
PPP Ohio

Obammunism 50
Romney 45
Click to expand...

Flagbig.GIF

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Flagbig.GIF
 
I

ido

Member
Oh shit, now Rush is basically saying that Ohio is still looking good.

Latest Q poll is stupid and wrong basically lol.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
PhoenixDark said:
It's too early to say what the Jeep fallout will be like, but it's certainly not a good thing when the CEO of said company sends all his employees an email saying you're full of shit
Click to expand...

The whole damage control on the auto bailout was really poorly managed by Romney's campaign. They should have had this issue defused in the midsummer, it's almost as if they just assumed that bad economic news and angry old white people would be enough to win the state. It wasn't, not even close, and everything in the OH reporting and crosstabs point to Mitt having a very serious credibility problem in Ohio that the campaign completely failed to address.

Another thing-Mitt hasn't done an interview in three weeks. What do they have to lose?

Man this cycle sucks. I remember real entertainment during the campaign season:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QhJJBfwJME

Shit like that? Kept me entertained for hours.
 
G

gcubed

Member
Fragamemnon said:
The whole damage control on the auto bailout was really poorly managed by Romney's campaign. They should have had this issue defused in the midsummer, it's almost as if they just assumed that bad economic news and angry old white people would be enough to win the state. It wasn't, not even close, and everything in the OH reporting and crosstabs point to Mitt having a very serious credibility problem in Ohio that the campaign completely failed to address.

Another thing-Mitt hasn't done an interview in three weeks. What do they have to lose?
Click to expand...

North Carolina
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Fragamemnon said:
The whole damage control on the auto bailout was really poorly managed by Romney's campaign. They should have had this issue defused in the midsummer, it's almost as if they just assumed that bad economic news and angry old white people would be enough to win the state. It wasn't, not even close, and everything in the OH reporting and crosstabs point to Mitt having a very serious credibility problem in Ohio that the campaign completely failed to address.

Another thing-Mitt hasn't done an interview in three weeks. What do they have to lose?
Click to expand...

How could he have defused the bailout problem? Straight up say "I was wrong on the bailout, but vote for me, I know what's good for Ohio!"
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Fragamemnon said:
PPP Ohio

Obammunism 50
Romney 45

edit: Yep, basically what you would expect. I think we could have called all the PPP results today in advance.
Click to expand...

So, not much time until the state polls come in line with the national polls and make this a DEAD HEAT then?
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Zabka said:
Mitt's afraid of being caught in his lies. Palin had more media exposure and she was a dunderhead.
Click to expand...

Are they really worried about the media at this point? Just muddle up something that sounds good and they'll eat it up without really questioning it. If there is any lesson from this cycle, no one gives a crap about fact checkers.

North Carolina
Click to expand...

I don't think anything they could have done in the last three weeks would change the electoral calculus for this state. It's always been-and is now (and I hate that I have to travel so much lately, and can't work for OFA again here, that was a lot of fun) a race between GOP voter enthusiasm (fairly static throughout the cycle) and OFAs ability to squeeze every last vote out of the core urban counties, keep Wake County's Obama share around 56-57%, and turn out a large number of new registered voters.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
RustyNails said:
How could he have defused the bailout problem? Straight up say "I was wrong on the bailout, but vote for me, I know what's good for Ohio!"
Click to expand...

The public doesn't understand debtor-in-possession financing and he could broaden the terminology of 'structured bailout'. There was room to work in a public/private solution even in the context of his editorial. He had to take the issue head-on, given how important Ohio was always going to be for his electoral map, he needed to address this in the same vigor that Obama dealt with Jeremiah Wright back in the 2008 primaries.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Fragamemnon said:
The public doesn't understand debtor-in-possession financing and he could broaden the terminology of 'structured bailout'. There was room to work in a public/private solution even in the context of his editorial. He had to take the issue head-on, given how important Ohio was always going to be for his electoral map, he needed to address this in the same vigor that Obama dealt with Jeremiah Wright back in the 2008 primaries.
Click to expand...

Probably. But he may have very well not known the full impact of auto bailout in Ohio, and was ok with blue Michigan being blue. I lived in Ohio for 5 years so it was clear to me that this was a bad prescription for the state.
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Fragamemnon said:
The public doesn't understand debtor-in-possession financing and he could broaden the terminology of 'structured bailout'. There was room to work in a public/private solution even in the context of his editorial. He had to take the issue head-on, given how important Ohio was always going to be for his electoral map, he needed to address this in the same vigor that Obama dealt with Jeremiah Wright back in the 2008 primaries.
Click to expand...

I dunno, man. I agree that he needed to solve the bailout problem, but I also don't see how he could've done it. He made a bet in 2009 that the auto industry would fail, and he lost. He TRIED saying that he proposed the same thing Obama proposed -- he's said it over and over, I think he's even bought ads saying it. The public doesn't believe it, and with good reason. He needed...well...a game changer on the topic, and I really can't for the life of me imagine one.
 
C

Clevinger

Member
Fragamemnon said:
The public doesn't understand debtor-in-possession financing and he could broaden the terminology of 'structured bailout'. There was room to work in a public/private solution even in the context of his editorial. He had to take the issue head-on, given how important Ohio was always going to be for his electoral map, he needed to address this in the same vigor that Obama dealt with Jeremiah Wright back in the 2008 primaries.
Click to expand...

I think he did as well as he could with what he had to work with. He's basically said "Yes, I said they should go bankrupt, and that's what happened." It's not completely untrue, and he can fool people like Kosmo into thinking he's right.
 
C

Cloudy

Banned
http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2012/10/scott-brown-refuses-to-reschedule-debate-147765.html

Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown is refusing to reschedule tonight's debate with Elizabeth Warren, which was canceled due to Hurricane Sandy.

"It is unfortunate that nature intervened in a way we all agreed made it inappropriate to carry on with the scheduled debate," Colin Reed, the communications director for Scott Brown's campaign, said in a statement. "With only days remaining in the campaign, and with a long-planned bus tour kicking off Thursday through Election Day that will take Scott Brown to every corner of the Commonwealth, our calendar simply cannot accommodate a rescheduling of this fourth debate and the planning and preparation that would go into it. Senator Brown is pleased to have participated in three major televised debates, and regrets that Professor Warren refused two additional earlier debate opportunities that he accepted."

Massachusetts Democrats are criticizing Brown for "ducking" the debate, noting that he has turned down five other debates this year. Sen. Brown's campaign claims Warren has turned down two. The Warren campaign agreed to reschedule the debate for Thursday.

The latest poll from The Boston Globe shows Brown and Warren in a dead heat, with Brown ahead 45 percent to 43 percent among likely voters, which is within the margin of error
Click to expand...


Wow...
 
M

Mike M

Nick N
Adding to workplace demographics show and tell...

I work in pharmaceutical research, and as I said previously, I live out in the furthest fringe before you fall off into red state areas in WA. My coworkers are primarily left leaning, from what I can gauge. I kind of go out of my way to avoid political discussions though, so I may be misreading some of them who haven't tipped their hands.

Outside my department... No idea. Lots of minorities, lots of women, lots of resident aliens though.

One of my friends who used to work here is a black guy married to a Jewish woman who are both gun nuts and Glenn Beck fans, so obviously making snap judgements based on demographics is a flawed approach...
 
L

littleworm

Member
Going to go vote tommorow, 5 of my friends and my mom already voted. +6 for Obama already. Working on flipping one of my friends from Romney to Obama and convinced my dad to not vote for Romney .
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
To be serious for a second: nearly every major elected republican in this state, including our governor Rick Snyder, supported the bailout. And not in abstract or political terms either: they realized the bailout was essential in not just saving the auto industry, but various parts manufacturers and even restaurant/store businesses that rely on auto workers to buy their products.

I tend to believe Romney was going to win the primary 9 out of 10 times; maybe his opponents could have attacked him harder on abortion, but republicans were always going to believe he had the best chance to defeat Obama. With that in mind, why did Romney have to take a hard right stance on the bailout? He supported a managed bankruptcy, as did Obama. How hard would it be to argue with Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Michelle Bachman that a federal bailout was necessary to save those jobs, even George Bush supported it, no private capitol was available to save them due to the financial crash, etc?

Given how moderate Romney has become recently, it wouldn't be a hard sell; the flip flopper charge hasn't hurt him nationally. He could easily say that while he was right about bankruptcy, he was wrong about the bailout and changed his mind after visiting Michigan and Ohio. It's not like blue collar white voters in this state love Obama, afterall. Romney could have made a major play for them simply by not telling them to fuck off.
 
A

ascii42

Member
PhoenixDark said:
To be serious for a second: nearly every major elected republican in this state, including our governor Rick Snyder, supported the bailout. And not in abstract or political terms either: they realized the bailout was essential in not just saving the auto industry, but various parts manufacturers and even restaurant/store businesses that rely on auto workers to buy their products.

I tend to believe Romney was going to win the primary 9 out of 10 times; maybe his opponents could have attacked him harder on abortion, but republicans were always going to believe he had the best chance to defeat Obama. With that in mind, why did Romney have to take a hard right stance on the bailout? He supported a managed bankruptcy, as did Obama. How hard would it be to argue with Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Michelle Bachman that a federal bailout was necessary to save those jobs, even George Bush supported it, no private capitol was available to save them due to the financial crash, etc?

Given how moderate Romney has become recently, it wouldn't be a hard sell; the flip flopper charge hasn't hurt him nationally. He could easily say that while he was right about bankruptcy, he was wrong about the bailout and changed his mind after visiting Michigan and Ohio. It's not like blue collar white voters in this state love Obama, afterall. Romney could have made a major play for them simply by not telling them to fuck off.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it wouldn't have been difficult to argue that the bailout should have been managed differently. His best bet would probably be to argue against the UAW getting something like 30% of GM.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
PhoenixDark said:
To be serious for a second: nearly every major elected republican in this state, including our governor Rick Snyder, supported the bailout. And not in abstract or political terms either: they realized the bailout was essential in not just saving the auto industry, but various parts manufacturers and even restaurant/store businesses that rely on auto workers to buy their products.

I tend to believe Romney was going to win the primary 9 out of 10 times; maybe his opponents could have attacked him harder on abortion, but republicans were always going to believe he had the best chance to defeat Obama. With that in mind, why did Romney have to take a hard right stance on the bailout? He supported a managed bankruptcy, as did Obama. How hard would it be to argue with Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Michelle Bachman that a federal bailout was necessary to save those jobs, even George Bush supported it, no private capitol was available to save them due to the financial crash, etc?

Given how moderate Romney has become recently, it wouldn't be a hard sell; the flip flopper charge hasn't hurt him nationally. He could easily say that while he was right about bankruptcy, he was wrong about the bailout and changed his mind after visiting Michigan and Ohio. It's not like blue collar white voters in this state love Obama, afterall. Romney could have made a major play for them simply by not telling them to fuck off.
Click to expand...

I think the primary was a lot closer than you're making it out to be. And the primary electorate was absolutely nuts. Every single debate, up until Newt Gingrich of all people became the tea party favorite, was basically a contest to see who could hate Obama the most. There was really no such thing as too conservative. Rick Perry got voted off the island for "oops", but that wouldn't have made a huge impact if he hadn't been badly hurt by supporting big government vaccination programs and in-state tuition for illegal immigrants who'd lived in Texas for a long time. Romney had to go all-out states' rights to distance himself from the hated Obamacare, and "bailout" was a dirty, dirty word. If Obama did it, it was either socialism or so obviously necessary that even a socialist would do it. If anyone on the stage could have credibly argued that the bailout wasn't a great idea (and this would not have been hard), Romney would have been in the position of arguing for Obama's policies against the conservative base, and that would have doomed him.
 
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