Does anybody even know where Paul Ryan is? Pretty sure he went missing a couple weeks ago.
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PolliGaf 2012 |OT5| Big Bird, Binders, Bayonets, Bad News and Benghazi
- Thread starter RustyNails
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AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
That's what I figured...
I agree with this. I am still very much a religious conservative, but none of my beliefs (outside of protecting unborn fetuses, you damn bastards!) should be forced onto others.
I maintain a traditional form of conservativeness:
-Get government out of every day lives as far as regulating what people can and can't do to their bodies.
-don't favor one group over another
-Favor keeping tax rates low, but current rates are too low. I consider Clinton-levels low. You know, when the country was highly prosperous and budgets were balanced?
but i oppose the Anti-science, anti-logic, and anti-fairness of current "Conservatives"
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I saw him today, he was speaking in Florida
Kidnapped by a bunch of AARP senior citizens
Aaron Strife
Banned
No, he just came to the light side.
Some of my fellow Minnesotans are hostile to Wisconsinites, but I am more charitable.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
And people wonder why the right hates Nate Silver
He's totally not just trying to keep his House seat for when Romney loses the election.
I want this so bad. People be workin hard. And I'd love to see the look on coworkers faces
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Nate Silver is gay, for one.
But he epitomizes everything wrong the Republican party (and really almost all of the media):
When you cater to the lowest common denominator day after day, year after year, you begin to think and act like the lowest common denominator.
I fully believe that a lot of Fox News anchors are reasonable, intelligent, although Nefarious and soulless humanoids. They are selling a product and they do it very well. But many others on Fox News actually buy what they are selling. It is really sad and an indication that having half a populace with IQ's less than 100 affects all of us because of the damage that does to the reception of science and progress.
Many MSNBC people think they are above selling deliberate lies and science avoidance, but they are just as guilty. I do believe that there are more bright spots on MSNBC than Fox News, but I really dislike liberal anchors, so I refuse to watch them, even when I agree with them.
el retorno
Member
Lol at nate.
metalslimer
Member
So basically your only conservative position altered is anti abortion and its strong enough to override every other principle? Interesting.
Black Mamba
Member
I googled "where is paul ryan"
1st response: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ho_will_play_the_gop_s_new_veep_nominee_.html
1st response: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ho_will_play_the_gop_s_new_veep_nominee_.html
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Crazy lady on MSNBC just suggested Democrats will take the House :lol
It is a swing state! Clinton will be here tomorrow! Dead heat!
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Why is Clinton wearing his Indiana Jones outfit?
I think this Indiana Jones uses a whip for other reasons...
metalslimer
Member
Some of that Fox News delusion spreading.
They've been showing his campaign stops on the TV, but never really covering them.
Yeah, same for me for the most part, though I could probably go more extreme than you as far as taxes, but I dunno. We'll see if we get to Clinton levels and then we can talk. I'd still say I have a religious conservative base to my beliefs even though I suppose I can't be considered that by any outsider.
As for abortion it was something I was against, but now it's something that I do not like and want to reduce in real ways. I've come to realize that just making it illegal doesn't do diddly squat. If you want to lower those rates then affordable contraceptives or even free contraceptives for everyone, and universal healthcare make it far less prevalent than any law could do. People will still do it if the law says no, and they'll hurt themselves, too.
I also kind of think it's logically and scientifically a process that everyone will feel differently on, so I kind of err on the side of letting the big decision on that go to the person that's going to feel the brunt of that decision themselves.
I'm still mostly against later term abortions, but I think there really aren't too many that would get those if we allowed early ones legally and had contraception and universal healthcare. Those would literally go to only people whose lives hung in the balance, probably.
littleworm
Member
538 hasn't updated you know what that means.
Bad.......No I'm not going to say it
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Oh man I wish I could get paid for being crazy and stupid on TV like all these pundits. God, it must be so easy. The best part is everyone knows what you're gonna say every damn time you go on there but they still pay to see you.
Cable news just plain sucks, period. I can't stand to watch any of it. PBS all the way.
Though i think i will turn on Fox once Obama gets elected and enjoy those sweet sweet tears
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Basically yes, and it shocks and confuses me that people would feel any different.
When I feel my soon-to-be-born baby kicking, it disgusts me to think that killing a baby is acceptable and allowed in such a "civil" society. A sad reflection of this society is that we glorify death and violence, make celebrity vacuity a desirable trait, truly believe that greed is good (unless rich white bankers are the wealthy ones), and do not put value on the lives of fetuses.
I don't ascribe to any "life at insemination" nonsense, but once it has a heartbeat, it deserves a chance to live. We afford that same right to murderers and rapists, after all. (I am against the death penalty, in case you are wondering)
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Give birth control to anyone who wants it. But once it has a heart beat, it deserves a chance at life. The only reason I would allow it is "self defense" (life of mother), to me, anything else is justified murder by those who engage it. Call me an extremist, I guess, but it baffles me how people, especially self-described Christians, Muslims, or Jews could believe otherwise.
Unless you think the GOP can ever overturn Roe v Wade, I don't understand this. Why does a baby someone DOESN'T want take precedence over the poor, the uninsured, the mentally disabled etc. Democrats try to help people who are already here!
Bad news for Nate?
el retorno
Member
I don't really want to get into it but a lot of people just don't believe the same as you that life begins at heartbeat. Thats a lot of what it comes down to.
ryutaro's mama
Member
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Who said I don't? I am for true universal healthcare, after all. Healthcare shouldn't be a business...
Is not protecting all life better than protecting some?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Why not. Just curious
The "Democrats are oversampled!" meme has gained a ton of mindshare in the last few days.
Black Mamba
Member
Brown up +2 on Warren:
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/kimballmass110112.pdf
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/kimballmass110112.pdf
Rpeublican pollster lol
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Man, I was going to say! Brown has run one of the absolute worst campaigns in a national election that I can remember from an incumbent.
His "checkers campaign" makes Romney look like he is playing the so called "11th Dimensional Chess"
Randolph Freelander
Member
84.4% on 538
Hey now, be fair to AB, he does support universal healthcare. That's why I don't really have much of a problem with his abortion stance. He does want to take care of people that are already here.
This is my sticking point as of late, and it's something I've only really recently realized and taken into my thinking. As you say yourself it doesn't start at insemination, or at least you wouldn't value it as much right then. You're placing a sort of arbitrary milestone at a heartbeat, and I think other people might feel differently and use other milestones. That's because the entire thing is a process. At one end you really don't have anything worth much of anything, since a woman's body can just discard it by itself a lot (fertilized egg doesn't get implanted all the time), and at the other end you basically have a baby. My personal view now is that since this is an ongoing process we're all going to feel differently, and there's really no reason one of us is right and one of us is wrong. So I kind of defer the decision to the person that has to feel the repercussions of it, and will have to live with whatever decision they make. I don't think many people really want abortions, and in a world where we gave out contraception, at least this decision wouldn't even be made quite that much. But still, I don't think I get to impose my arbitrary view on when a human life is worth constitutional rights or whatever on someone else.
metalslimer
Member
As someone who lives his life by science, life does not begin with a heartbeat.Hell a heart can be forced to contract synthetically. I think once a fetus is viable outside the womb abortion is disgusting and don't prescribe to the fetus are just parasites until 9 months extreme idea, but I don't put any real value in a heartbeat. I also just really don't find that stage of development to be special for humans. Why do we place so much emphasis on human development and still kill animals that are much sentient than that developing fetus. The thing is that I think we agree fullheartedly that abortions shouldn't exist, although I take that stance for the stress it puts the mother under which is why I want free contraception for everyone and much better education so we don't have to worry about it.
It's really interesting in this kind way what arbitrary place we put to the issue on where we think it should be allowed.
el retorno
Member
Why don't people believe that? I'm not going to speak for everyone. There really isn't a scientifically designed "beginning of life"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_personhood
Not even all religions even back up personhood before birth.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I use to be staunchly opposed to abortion in all situations and then i had a daughter. Firstly, my wife and I lost our firstborn to being stillborn (as some here know). it offends me that some use abortion as birth control. But I do have a living daughter and NEVER EVER could I ask her to carry to term a baby that came from her being raped or molested so I do make exceptions in such a situation. I am against abortion in other situations BUT I cant go fully and push for it to being made illegal.
I know how it feels to feel your offspring kick while in its mothers womb. Or to see its heartbeat for the first time. Its life changing. But again, i cant in good conscience request for abortion to be made illegal. I prefer that each individual is able to decide what is best for her. Though i am opposed to late term abortion other than the life of the mother being in jeporardy.
It's like death. We don't even know when a person should be considered dead.
ryutaro's mama
Member
And not a single fuck was given by Joe Scarbs.
I oppose abortion after the fetus has brain function. A lot of my liberal friends disagree with me, so I just don't bring it up. Often it seems that if you aren't completely on board with any abortion, any time, you're a patriarchal misogynist who just wants to control women's bodies. At least in a blue state like California. It does get frustrating.
Also this. I had a conversation with my religio-conservative parents recently where I brought up the study showing that free contraception dramatically lowered abortion rates. I basically told them that if they really want to stop abortions because they think abortion = murder, that they have to support increasing access to birth control. That they can have fewer abortions or fewer people on birth control, but not both. I think I almost got my mom on board with that.
Also this. I had a conversation with my religio-conservative parents recently where I brought up the study showing that free contraception dramatically lowered abortion rates. I basically told them that if they really want to stop abortions because they think abortion = murder, that they have to support increasing access to birth control. That they can have fewer abortions or fewer people on birth control, but not both. I think I almost got my mom on board with that.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Hm, something's funky with his Montana prediction. He's got the polling average as only +2 Romney but the listed polls show nothing like that, and there hasn't been one since mid-October.
Im a self described christian and I certainly don't believe in your time table and I dont consider it conflicting with my religion either.
Black Mamba
Member
Essentially the same as the day of the 1st debate (84.7%).
edit: Nevada over 90% now, Va over 70%. Colorado at 69%.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Anti-abortion except for life of the mother. Yes, religious grounds. I believe it is murder.
That said, like AlteredBeast, I am also anti-death penalty and pro-universal healthcare.
Oddly, I despise children and would kindly wish that everyone would stop procreating. The next politician to come along and propose a kid free America is the politician with some change I can believe in.
That said, like AlteredBeast, I am also anti-death penalty and pro-universal healthcare.
Oddly, I despise children and would kindly wish that everyone would stop procreating. The next politician to come along and propose a kid free America is the politician with some change I can believe in.
metalslimer
Member
The thing is it really starts to get dicey when you talk about "function". I'd be interested to know what function is defined to?There is a certain liberal sect that makes the issue seem completely like not a problem. The only issue I take with people are people who literally think life begins at conception (ban the morning after pill) or people who think everyone should be able to get abortions into like the 6th month without danger to the mother
I think anyone who votes GOP (as currently constituted) over Dem based on abortion is making the perfect the enemy of the good. The disadvantaged who are walking among us are my #1 priority
My personal view is this. Nobody likes abortions but IMO, it's better not to be born than to be born to parents who don't want you. A good life is better than being born into a loveless environment or other forms of suffering/abuse
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Not sure if serious.
Thing is if we had freely available contraception, universal healthcare, and legal abortion, I really doubt we'd see very many people waiting that long to get an abortion. I mean why in the world would you wait like 4 months to have an abortion if you could just legally do it right away (or never got pregnant in the first place)? Most people just wouldn't. If you somehow accidentally got pregnant and absolutely couldn't have it even despite the healthcare being covered you'd just get an abortion at the first point you knew you were pregnant.
At least that's my take on it.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Guess I just want to protect more life than you libs out there...
/deliberately smug asshole post.
But seriously, I do
Once again, so as to not confuse anyone:
I am all for universal healthcare, free and easy birth control (obviously I am against pre-marital sex due to being Mormon, but understand that exactly 99% of the country feels differently ), and exceptions for rape/incest/life of mother. I would make adoptions a benefit to anyone willing to do so for newborns/infants and have mothers who choose to do the honorable and sensible thing and deliver the baby be taken care of with any counseling necessary, paid time away from employment due to the pregnancy and delivery/recovery and the guarantee of job protection.
But, as part of my quest for personal responsibility and the protection of all life, I would fully support a ban on abortions in all other instances.
/deliberately smug asshole post.
But seriously, I do
Once again, so as to not confuse anyone:
I am all for universal healthcare, free and easy birth control (obviously I am against pre-marital sex due to being Mormon, but understand that exactly 99% of the country feels differently
), and exceptions for rape/incest/life of mother. I would make adoptions a benefit to anyone willing to do so for newborns/infants and have mothers who choose to do the honorable and sensible thing and deliver the baby be taken care of with any counseling necessary, paid time away from employment due to the pregnancy and delivery/recovery and the guarantee of job protection. But, as part of my quest for personal responsibility and the protection of all life, I would fully support a ban on abortions in all other instances.
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