Support NeoGAF

[The Abominable Snowman]

Who's talking about the quality of the music here? Well, obvious I think it's a completely overblown (boring shit) album, but I'm more or less discussing the guy's overall relevance. The conversation surrounding Frank Ocean seems to be about his sexuality and how brave his "coming out" was. This isn't something I'm concocting. It's becoming a pretty fair observation at this point, especially after things like that article Botty linked to that refers to Frank as a "rap superstar."

It's almost as if Frank's music is being praised because it HAS to be in order to fit the narrative. But I'll admit that I'm being very cynical with that.

Also sad that, since the comparison was made, I peeked at metacritic and noted that Miguel's brilliant album, while equally praised, has only been reviewed by 16 critics to Frank's 40+.

Both albums have been noted as high quality and genre-leading by the critics.

But one seems to get considerably more media attention. Wonder why that is...

Frank Ocean and Miguel are at two ends of the R&B spectrum. Miguel is going for a more sensual, Prince-like, earthy sound and Frank is more alternative, almost like The Weeknd.

I don't know why people are so pressed to compare them both.

Miguel's album missed the Grammy deadline period. By about a month. These people crying because it didn't get nominated need to have a seat until next year's noms.

 

[royalan]

Britney got popular at the same time and hardly had any raw talent.

Because Christina relied on the same methods of selling sex, there's no way to tell that she got attention only because of her voice, like Whitney and Mariah did (not sure about Mariah selling sex, but I think she was pretty modest in her early career?)

But there is. The proof is in the very moniker the haters use to drag her now: VOICE OF HER GENERATION.

I'm not denying that Christina had some sexual songs even going back to her debut, but you just weren't around if you think THAT'S the reason why she was popular and why she exploded.

Christina's great differentiator was her VOICE. Yes she also got attention for being pretty, but the primary discussion was her vocal talent and where it placed her among the greats. That there was even DISCUSSION about where she placed among the greats should tell you how important her singing talent was to her success.

Little kids on the middle school playground debating the merits of Britney vs Christina always relied on THIS argument: "Well, yeah Britney is a great performer, but Christina can SING."

 

[twobear]

Unbelievable. Citing the fact that Xtina was getting grammy nominations and then flatly ignoring that Frank is getting the same by the end of the post. The delusion is staggering.

 

[Artemisia]

The media was equally as interested in Britney and Christina's #1 hits as they were their images. Might I add that Christina was gaining grammy noms before her album even released. So to say that her image was more important than her talent is ridiculous.

Stop lying. The media doesn't care about their MUSIC as much as the actual person behind it. Tabloids don't talk about music, they talk about people. E! news doesn't talk about music, they talk about people. Christina and Britney didn't make headlines for their actual music.

Both girls also had a bit of fame from Star Search, and the Mickey Mouse club. So it's not like their first major images were sexualized.

Good, keep offering more evidence to the fact that their music alone didn't propel them to fame.

But do tell me when the media starts acknowledging Frank Ocean for something besides his tumblr coming out party, so that I can stop observing it.

Do tell me when you will stop expecting things of Frank Ocean that you don't of your faves.

 

[Trigger]

So I got to watching Gaga live performances and LORDTTTT, Bad Romance.

My first thought was to post her AMA performance of that song actually. Gaga was fierce during that era.

 

[Dr. Malik]

Gaga hitting all the right beats at the 2009 VMAs. She made a real fan out of me with that.

I hate when people post this performance, so overrated. Its not even in her top 3 performances.

 

[twobear]

gaga really pisses me off with her live vocals.

Sometimes she sounds great like at the 2009 VMAs, but if you watch some of her concert videos, she kinda slouches vocally. The discrepancy is annoying.

I was talking more about the song itself. Simply ICONIC.

 

[Majmun]

The media was equally as interested in Britney and Christina's #1 hits as they were their images. Might I add that Christina was gaining grammy noms before her album even released. So to say that her image was more important than her talent is ridiculous.

So to say that her image was more important than her talent is ridiculous.

So, a Grammy nomination equals talent?

Frank Ocean has 6 Grammy nominations

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1698434/grammy-nominations-frank-ocean.jhtml
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...Fun-and-Frank-Ocean-lead-Grammy-nominees.html

Unbelievable. Citing the fact that Xtina was getting grammy nominations and then flatly ignoring that Frank is getting the same by the end of the post. The delusion is staggering.

Oh, I see I was late to the CLOCKING

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

My first thought was to post her AMA performance of that song actually. Gaga was fierce during that era.

Awful. Just awful...

Beyonslay

 

[RubyFaith]

Did anyone see the video where Wendy Williams said Beyonce sounds like she has a 5th grade education and people are actually agreeing?

 

[Cynosure]

I'm just pointing out how everything that you say about Frank is wrong, mis-informed, hypocritical, and every other possible synonym you may think off. But I know that won't stop you, carry on.

and I hope he never stops


your throbbing butthurt throughout the last few pages was a fun read lol

Arte sis it's useless. We should just follow DMJ's example and stop trying it with these baboons. I think if we and everyone just ignore the haters, especially Botty, then they'd go away, or something.

 

[Trigger]

Did anyone see the video where Wendy Williams said Beyonce sounds like she has a 5th grade education and people are actually agreeing?

Yes, I have. Mess! Wendy needs to stop.

Awful. Just awful...

Beyonslay

Slayonce!

 

[Wafflecakes]

I hate when people post this performance, so overrated. Its not even in her top 3 performances.

Yeah its to the point where its classified differently.

When people liked her music:
1. Paparazzi 2009

When they didn't.
1.x
2.y
3.z
4.lotus




I mean. I love Gaga....but that love was bought and paid for Poker Face through Bad Romance. Haven't had more than passing enjoyment in her work since then. .....The glamour has gone....and thats what I loved about her.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Did anyone see the video where Wendy Williams said Beyonce sounds like she has a 5th grade education and people are actually agreeing?

Have we ever seen Wendy Williams act like a decent person?

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

Slayonce!

 

[Bladenic]

and I hope he never stops


your throbbing butthurt throughout the last few pages was a fun read lol

 

[RubyFaith]

Have we ever seen Wendy Williams act like a decent person?

I've yet to witness such a act but she's cuttin up.

 

[Dr. Malik]

My Top Gaga performances in no particular order

The Edge of Glory & Born This Way on the MTV Japan AID Relief

Lady Gaga - Marry The Night (2011 Grammy Nominations Concert)

Bad Romance, Speechless (Live on the AMA)

I mean why do your faves even try

 

[Bladenic]

My Top Gaga performances in no particular order

The Edge of Glory & Born This Way on the MTV Japan AID Relief

Lady Gaga - Marry The Night (2011 Grammy Nominations Concert)

Bad Romance, Speechless (Live on the AMA)

I mean why do your faves even try

The Bad Romance/Speechless was the first live Gaga performance I witnessed, I believe. It was the first time I realized she's actually talented and a good singer. Bravo.

 

[Majmun]

Did anyone see the video where Wendy Williams said Beyonce sounds like she has a 5th grade education and people are actually agreeing?

LOL at the crowd backfire.

Don't think Bey and Jay will even care about this. And they shouldn't.

 

[royalan]

I've dragged Wendy on occasion but she kinda has a point. Beyonce does come off a bit slow in serious interviews (did you guys watch that Larry King interview?). But hey...

 

[Wafflecakes]

Meh none of those 3 would make my top 3........That Bad Romance performance was particularly messy (speechless half was great).

 

[Trigger]

The Edge of Glory is the crown jewel of the BTW era. Such a strong song. I'm going to play it at least once during New Year's Eve.

 

[Artemisia]

Wendy is vile. She comes off to me as the type of person who would say Frank Ocean used his sexuality as promo.

 

[Wafflecakes]

The Edge of Glory is the crown jewel of the BTW era. Such a strong song. I'm going to play it at least once during New Year's Eve.

I agree with this. I prefer the Idol performance though.

 

[Majmun]

I've dragged Wendy on occasion but she kinda has a point. Beyonce does come off a bit slow in serious interviews (did you guys watch that Larry King interview?). But hey...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZcN04U-gM4

 

[royalan]

I still prefer the last minute of Marry the Night to anything on the album. Such a well-formed moment.

 

[botty]

Stop lying. The media doesn't care about their MUSIC as much as the actual person behind it. Tabloids don't talk about music, they talk about people. E! news doesn't talk about music, they talk about people. Christina and Britney didn't make headlines for their actual music.

Good, keep offering more evidence to the fact that their music alone didn't propel them to fame.

Do tell me when you will stop expecting things of Frank Ocean that you don't of your faves.

Both of their debuts produced hits, so it's kind of hard to believe that the media would ignore their music... unlike Frank. I can't speak on Britney's 'talents,' but Xtina was definitely being praised for her voice and music, over her image. I also need to repeat that sexuality =/= sex. Frank Ocean is known more for his sexuality, than his music. Xtina and Britney were known more for there music, than there sexy image. Though I can not say I am surprised, considering you couldn't get away from their chart topping hits. On the flip side, you can not find Frank Oceans music on the radio, or on any playlist of the supposed Francis stans.

I don't expect Frank Ocean to ever be known for anything but... and as long as the media keeps reiterating that point, I will remain CORRECT.

 

[RubyFaith]

did you guys watch that Larry King interview?

lol yes...

 

[Cynosure]

Yes, I have. Mess! Wendy needs to stop.

I couldnt find the clip


Did she say that in her show? if her audience agreed, it's because they're told what to do

 

[Artemisia]

I've dragged Wendy on occasion but she kinda has a point. Beyonce does come off a bit slow in serious interviews (did you guys watch that Larry King interview?). But hey...

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNngi8U7krM

She sounds... normal.

 

[royalan]

lol yes...

Yep, so keep the tea true.

This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNngi8U7krM

She sounds... normal.

Watch the whole thing.

 

[Dr. Malik]

I agree with this. I prefer the Idol performance though.

Eh, she is just standing on top of that cliff but the end where she fell surprised me

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

My Top Gaga performances in no particular order

The Edge of Glory & Born This Way on the MTV Japan AID Relief

Lady Gaga - Marry The Night (2011 Grammy Nominations Concert)

Bad Romance, Speechless (Live on the AMA)

I mean why do your faves even try

Awful. Just awful.

Slayonce

 

[twobear]

Both of their debuts produced hits, so it's kind of hard to believe that the media would ignore their music... unlike Frank. I can't speak on Britney's 'talents,' but Xtina was definitely being praised for her voice and music, over her image. I also need to repeat that sexuality =/= sex. Frank Ocean is known more for his sexuality, than his music. Xtina and Britney were known more for there music, than there sexy image. Though I can not say I am surprised, considering you couldn't get away from their chart topping hits. On the flip side, you can not find Frank Oceans music on the radio, or on any playlist of the supposed Francis stans.

I don't expect Frank Ocean to ever be known for anything but... and as long as the media keeps reiterating that point, I will remain CORRECT.

You tried though. Boy did you try.

 

[Trigger]

I couldnt find the clip


Did she say that in her show? if her audience agreed, it's because they're told what to do

They actually boo her a bit. Buzzfeed has the clip.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

I've dragged Wendy on occasion but she kinda has a point. Beyonce does come off a bit slow in serious interviews (did you guys watch that Larry King interview?). But hey...

Why do you hate all that is good in the world?

Spoiler

at least we agree on gingers

 

[Dr. Malik]

Attention: Tune into The X-Factor for Ke$ha performing C'Mon
during this hour

 

[Artemisia]

Xtina and Britney were known more for there music, than there sexy image.

No. Image is everything in commerical pop music. Image is what you are first and foremost known for.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Eh, she is just standing on top of that cliff but the end where she fell surprised me

Sometimes less is more. There was such tension and drama even if a lot was not going on.

 

[Majmun]

Awful. Just awful.

Slayonce

Omg, I love that song. One of my all time favorite Bey songs

Be With You and Speechless are eternal jams *.*

 

[Artemisia]

Watch the whole thing.

She mumbled and stuttered a bit, but that's completely normal.

It's always black people who we hear about apparently not knowing how to speak. Obama, beyonce, etc.

 

[Bladenic]

They actually boo her a bit. Buzzfeed has the clip.

She said she was a fan. Lmao

But I think this is a MUCH more interesting article

 

[botty]

No. Image is everything in commerical pop music. Image is what you are first and foremost known for.

I will agree with you to a certain extent. Lady Gaga's image was definitely at the forefront of her debut era, but to say Britney and Xtina's complete media coverage is based on a sexualized image is an exaggeration and false. The little media coverage Frank Ocean has managed to gather is based on his sexuality. I mean... if you want to call out one of my faves for something similar, bring up Nicki with the whole "bisexual" thing that hovered over her during her debut. That makes more sense than the straws you're reaching for.

 

[<+)O Robido O(+>]

It's always black people who we hear about apparently not knowing how to speak. Obama, beyonce, etc.

Apparently she should just be disinterested and "act" for the camera. Gurls love that here.

 

[Cynosure]

the only popstar who sounds like they have a 5th grade education is Braindeadney

 

[Trigger]

She said she was a fan. Lmao

But I think this is a MUCH more interesting article

Cackling. I haven't seen some of this before.

 

[RubyFaith]

the only popstar who sounds like they have a 5th grade education is Braindeadney

!!!!

 

[twobear]

I will agree with you to a certain extent. Lady Gaga's image was definitely at the forefront of her debut era, but to say Britney and Xtina's complete media coverage is based on a sexualized image is an exaggeration and false. The little media coverage Frank Ocean has managed to gather is based on his sexuality. I mean... if you want to call out one of my faves for something similar, bring up Nicki with the whole "bisexual" thing that hovered over her during her debut. That makes more sense than the straws you're reaching for.

And the fact that he's been nominated for six Grammys. It's weird that you keep forgetting this considering the number of times it's been pointed out.

 

[Artemisia]

I will agree with you to a certain extent. Lady Gaga's image was definitely at the forefront of her debut era, but to say Britney and Xtina's complete media coverage is based on a sexualized image is an exaggeration and false. The little media coverage Frank Ocean has managed to gather is based on his sexuality. I mean... if you want to call out one of my faves for something similar, bring up Nicki with the whole "bisexual" thing that hovered over her during her debut. That makes more sense than the straws you're reaching for.

There is nothing wrong with using a sexualized image. It's normal. I'm not slut shaming them.

But to come for frank ocean for the impossible to prove notion that he used his sexuality to be relevant does not make any sense. And even if it did, it would be completely hypocritical of you to mention it because you can make a very solid case for britney and xtina using sex to sell. And what they used to sell is what matters more here than what they are known for.