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[Wafflecakes]

oh lord

1.
the remixes and discounts kept giving the songs a push even ET had a remix from the getgo

2. It means that she promoted heavily and her album only sold around the same amount what other girls do in a span of a year.
3. Beyonce isn't a nostalgic act, she selling because of the hype of her next album, Super Bowl performance and the fact that she is just great at doing what she does. People will always go see you for your past songs but unlike Madonna they will also be there for her new material. Something people dont even do for Katy
3. You are right on this since they dont have any movies, but the fact of how the movie displays Katy Perry shows more than enough why she is a joke
5. The GP doesnt care about Bieber, 1D. They are only being sustained by the teenage demographic and gays it is why they wont be grammy winners anytime soon or ever, they are disposable, Katy Perry is just one level above them since she able to reach the college level demo
6. It had good ratings, how is that not a metric for relevancy


and if Katy outdoes Gaga it wont change a thing
she will still be bowing down and performing Gaga's songs on her tour

Bow Down Bitches

1. Would any of her #1's NOT gone #1 without their remixes? I highly doubt it.
2. Her album sold about the same as them yes. However, she CRUSHED them in singles sales. Like it or not that does matter.
3. So you admit she isn't selling on her current success. Whether it is from past success or future hype she is still not selling based on her CURRENT music or hits (or lack thereof).
4. Glad we agree that her film gross is irrelevant.
5. Dispose-ability didn't stop Britney. Why should it stop Katy?
6. Good ratings were still only a couple million. It may have performed well for HBO, but that is not a mainstream success.

Honestly we have no idea what Gaga's or Katy's next era's will bring. If Gaga flops again on radio there is no way she deserves to be in the Trinity. After two under-performing eras
you can only crutch on tour grosses for so long. Eventually you become (in your own words) a "nostalgia" act, rather than a current artist.

 

[Trigger]

Why would you omit Gaga from this? If Madonna is still in this said TRINITY with output like MDNA then I cannot even begin to think what you think of Gaga :biblio:

Spoiler

Bey is in Soulscribe's trinity and that's iT

Oop.

I didn't intend to shade Gaga. I assumed most people didn't include her because of how new she is relatively speaking. Like I said, the concept seems very vague to me.

 

[cory64]

LFN would not have gone #1 without an extra push.

 

[SaintZ]

Florence's song slayed. Bernard and Lana tried.

Prepare for more seething because Lana's song is going to be released as a lead single ALLEGEDLY. The video would be premiering on April 22th according to a Lana fansite. She IS cominG.

 

[Vazra]

Prepare for more seething because Lana's song is to be released as a lead single ALLEGEDLY. The video would be premiering on April 22th according to a Lana fansite. She IS cominG.

Florence tried tho.

 

[Trigger]

Prepare for more seething because Lana's song is to be released as a lead single ALLEGEDLY. The video would be premiering on April 22th according to a Lana fansite. She IS cominG.

I'm ready for the slayage.

 

[Matt_]

By what metric was BTW not a disappointment?

It was down in every metric from the album before. Not a "flop" per-se, but definitely not a success.


....and it is very easy to see that Katy could have more success in this coming era than Gaga. It wouldn't exactly be unprecedented.

The album produced a massive number 1, 3 more top 10s and only one single that could be counted as a flop and it still went top thirty.

The album might not have sold as much as The Fame + Fame Monster, but the sound was entirely different and a lot less commercial.

And unlike other peoples albums, BTW is still fantastic today and doesnt seem tired.

Katy has some success, that I can't deny. But acting like she'd ever had anywhere near the impact of the fan base that Gaga has is absurd, and it would take a monumental misstep from Gaga for Katy to step above her

Prepare for more seething because Lana's song is to be released as a lead single ALLEGEDLY. The video would be premiering on April 22th according to a Lana fansite. She IS cominG.

This is just lovely news. I a ready for the soulful queen.

 

[Soulscribe]

Beyonce, Rihanna and Lady Gaga are the ONLY "pop trinity" we have right now because they each cover an important facet:

- Accolades/Critical Acclaim
- Pop Cultural Force
- Radio/Bilboard Presence

To say that one of these three is more important than the others is nonsense. All three are important, and because of that NOBODY has or will touch these three ladies in their respective categories. They run 'em.

I won't even HUMOR the prospect of dismissing Beyonce as a musical force because 4 underperformed. That era was badly handled, had middling and sporadic single releases, and used promotion to market 4 as an album and not just a house for one or two major singles. It was a promotional plan that didn't work because it wasn't focused on one single or look. If ANY of your faves went through that same era they wouldn't have produced hits either. You have your lucky stars to thank for Rihanna and Lady Gaga not taking chances in era exposure and have made it a point to make sure their promo and presence is gargantuan and poignant. Beyonce didn't do that with 4 and she seemed content enough with what transpired because of it. She at least gained a great deal of critical acclaim (so much so that the Grammys received a legitimate backlash for paying 4 dust) and artistic integrity because she realized that even without a Billboard/radio hit people are still calling it her richest body of work. And that's something very FEW of your faves can emulate. So everyone can sit.

Katy Perry isn't part of the trinity because her achievements fall in line with what Rihanna's are, and the latter has a greater quantity of it and a bigger presence to boot.

 

[cory64]

The album produced a massive number 1, 3 more top 10s and only one single that could be counted as a flop and it still went top thirty

You must have learned how to stan on a Ciara forum.
Only bring up the fact that a single was less than top 10 if it's a format exclusive or collectively as a statistic.

 

[Wafflecakes]

LFN would not have gone #1 without an extra push.

It did go #1 for two weeks. Which suggest it had at least some margin over the competition.

If it had only gone #1 during the week of the sale I would be more likely to agree with you.

 

[Nemesis_]

You must have learned how to stan on a Ciara forum.

Don't you shade MTN >=(

 

[Artemisia]

It was down in every metric from the album before. Not a "flop" per-se, but definitely not a success.

what even??????

7 million copies sold

4 top 10 singles

$170 million grossing tour

yeah, it certainly wasn't a success.

I bet Florence's song plays in the part where Nick Carraway sees some black people and he calls them animals.

I can't with you

 

[cory64]

Don't you shade MTN >=(

I love MTN, I'm shading his struggle logic.

 

[Artemisia]

Prepare for more seething because Lana's song is going to be released as a lead single ALLEGEDLY. The video would be premiering on April 22th according to a Lana fansite. She IS cominG.

It's like they want the movie to flop in the US.

 

[Matt_]

I love MTN, I'm shading his struggle logic.

I dont get how it's struggle logic. Just pointing out that Gaga's "flop" era wasnt much of a flop at all

 

[Wafflecakes]

what even??????

7 million copies sold

4 top 10 singles

$170 million grossing tour

yeah, it certainly wasn't a success.

Everything is relative. Yes it sold 7 million copies and had some top 10 singles (who brags about top 10 nowadays?) However, if you look at the performance of those singles sales wise there is a MASSIVE gap between Katy and Gaga.

I would also like to point out that I was NEVER arguing that Katy should replace Gaga as things stand now. I was pointing out that if the downward tend continues for Gaga then it may be the case in the future.

 

[Trigger]

I dont get how it's struggle logic. Just pointing out that Gaga's "flop" era wasnt much of a flop at all

Let your haters be yo motivators.

 

[Aguila]

omg what wonderful news + music to wake up to

that Beyonce song/commerical is awesome
the songs on the GG trailer are great
the GG is going to help Lana smash in the US

i cant

 

[Vazra]

I'm thinking adding more to the collection of Flawless Avatars.

Cher, Janet Jackson are in mind and might add some Kelly Rowland and some other lessors to have more.

Care to add more to the list?

This are the gurls so far.
Link

 

[DMeisterJ]

Oh my

Grown Woman is not the lead single

I wonder if she's getting ready for the fact that Grown Woman would not smash by not calling it the first single.

 

[Soulscribe]

Everything is relative. Yes it sold 7 million copies and had some top 10 singles (who brags about top 10 nowadays?) However, if you look at the performance of those singles sales wise there is a MASSIVE gap between Katy and Gaga.

I would also like to point out that I was NEVER arguing that Katy should replace Gaga as things stand now. I was pointing out that if the downward tend continues for Gaga then it may be the case in the future.

Honestly if you compare The Fame Monster's three singles to Born This Way's top 3 singles:

The Fame Monster:

- Bad Romance: #2
- Telephone: #3
- Alejandro: #5

Born This Way:

- Born This Way: #1
- The Edge of Glory: #3
- You and I: #6

Then in terms of the songs that got the most play from their respective albums, the albums performed generally the same. You can argue that Born This Way did "better" on Billboard because it actually mustered a #1 hit.

The only reason why people say Born This Way was a "flop" is because she had two more singles that were Bilboard outliers (and one of them was even a top 10 single). 4 top 10 singles one one album though? That's a really high bar regardless of whose it is.

Certainly higher than Talk That Talk, for example:

- We Found Love: #2
- Where Have You Been: #6
- You Da One: #26

But I consider TTT to be a successful era, because it worked for what Rihanna's market is going for, and that's having at least one huge single.

We throw "flop" around too much.

 

[DMeisterJ]

- We Found Love: #2
- Where Have You Been: #6
- You Da One: #26

These made up numbers, I cannot

We Found Love: #1
Where Have You Been: #5
You Da One: #14

There you go.

 

[Nemesis_]

Oh, I just watched the Pepsi ad properly. Cute concept, I guess.

I still think the lead single from Bey's album wasn't actually from her album and was a Gaga collab. >_>

 

[Trigger]

Oh my

Grown Woman is not the lead single

I wonder if she's getting ready for the fact that Grown Woman would not smash by not calling it the first single.

I don't understand this era at all.

 

[Soulscribe]

These made up numbers, I cannot

We Found Love: #1
Where Have You Been: #5
You Da One: #14

There you go.

Oh, Wikipedia lied to me then. Ooop

 

[Wafflecakes]

Honestly if you compare The Fame Monster's three singles to Born This Way's top 3 singles:

The Fame Monster:

- Bad Romance: #2
- Telephone: #3
- Alejandro: #5

Born This Way:

- Born This Way: #1
- The Edge of Glory: #3
- You and I: #6

Then in terms of the songs that got the most play from their respective albums, the albums performed generally the same. You can argue that Born This Way did "better" on Billboard because it actually mustered a #1 hit.

The only reason why people say Born This Way was a "flop" is because she had two more singles that were Bilboard outliers (and one of them was even a top 10 single). 4 top 10 singles one one album though? That's a really high bar regardless of whose it is.

Certainly higher than Talk That Talk, for example:

- We Found Love: #2
- Where Have You Been: #6
- You Da One: #26

But I consider TTT to be a successful era, because it worked for what Rihanna's market is going for, and that's having at least one huge single.

We throw "flop" around too much.

If I used the word flop it was in error. I do think it under performed.

However, The Fame and The Fame Moster era's should should not be treated as entirely separate. In most peoples eyes TFM was more of a continuation of the TF era. Though that is just my impression, and I am open to rebuttal on the matter since I honestly didn't follow her that closely at the time.

Certainly BTW looks better if you just compare it to TFM.

 

[Aguila]

look at how Lana is fucking dancing. hnnnnnng

Her twirls are all sexy-like now

 

[cory64]

I don't understand...

Two buzz tracks before the lead single? Only #FFFFFFive


Edit: Waffles, Bad Romance premiered less than a month after Paparazzi peaked.

 

[JCX]

Beyonce is covering Back to Black? That doesn't even touch Amy's version.

Lana track sounds great per usual.

 

[PowderedToast]

I don't understand...

Two buzz tracks before the lead single? Only #FFFFFFive

yea wtf

hey bey, how about u just debut a great song?

 

[Soulscribe]

If I used the word flop it was in error. I do think it under performed.

However, The Fame and The Fame Moster era's should should not be treated as entirely separate. In most peoples eyes TFM was more of a continuation of the TF era. Though that is just my impression, and I am open to rebuttal on the matter since I honestly didn't follow her that closely at the time.

Though it was an EP I think most consider it an entirely separate body of work. Bad Romance was a big fire-starter to a new era, and everything from her shows to her look to her execution was a huge change from what she did with the Fame.

 

[Aguila]

Yaaaasss

Vanbot has just pre-released her new single, When My Heart Breaks, on Spotify. It slays.

http://vanbotmusic.com/

 

[Wafflecakes]

Though it was an EP I think most consider it an entirely separate body of work. Bad Romance was a big fire-starter to a new era, and everything from her shows to her look to her execution was a huge change from what she did with the Fame.

Edit: Waffles, Bad Romance was only like a month and a half after she performed Paparazzi at the VMAs.

I'll have to look more into it later.

With that short of a gap between them I have a hard time accepting the argument that they were two separate eras even if they went in somewhat different directions.

 

[Artemisia]

Yaaaasss

Vanbot has just pre-released her new single, When My Heart Breaks, on Spotify. It slays.

http://vanbotmusic.com/

waitttttt

this is slaying

 

[Nemesis_]

Vanbot has just pre-released her new single, When My Heart Breaks, on Spotify. It slays.

It's okay. >_>

Spotify HTTP Link

Spotify URI Link

A bit too retro for me

 

[Soulscribe]

Beyonce gorl either debut big with "Grown Woman" or hold off and release a debut single instead.

Tired of this "throw everything on iTunes and see what sticks" business.

 

[cory64]

I'll have to look more into it later.

With that short of a gap between them I have a hard time accepting the argument that they were two separate eras even if they went in somewhat different directions.

Yeah, while the albums were very different, the eras were closer together than say, The One That Got Away and Part of Me or Don't Stop The Music and Take A Bow.

Then again, Rihanna's eras are about as close as that.

 

[Matt_]

look at how Lana is fucking dancing. hnnnnnng

Her twirls are all sexy-like now

I was sitting there thinking how much better she has gotten perfomring live, and then she starts wailing like a ghost

edit: anyone got a youtube link for vanbot? I don't have spotify

 

[Majmun]

Beyonce Pepsi commercial with snippet of her new single

linky

Boring.

Here's a new trailer featuring Beyonce's, Lana's and Florence's new songs.

HOLY CRAPPPP
Commercial and OST are killin me

And I can't believe Waffle is mentioning Perra when talking about The Trinity.
But I guess that his dismissive talk about Prince showed us how he only likes to stan trash instead of legends and doesn't recognize a truly iconic performer, even if it hits him in the face.

 

[Nemesis_]

If only these pop girls could be as refreshing as One Direction.

 

[Wafflecakes]

HOLY CRAPPPP
Commercial and OST are killin me


And I can't believe Waffle is mentioning Perra when talking about The Trinity.
But I guess that his dismissive talk about Prince showed us how he only likes to stan trash instead of legends and doesn't recognize a truly iconic performer, even if it hits him in the face.

Like it or not Bey was a flop last era....and flops have no place in the Trinity. She has to EARN her place there this era. Hyperbole about what a "great performer" and how insulted you are that I mention Perra isn't going to make Bey's dismal receipts from last era go away.

If Bey can salvage her reputation as a hit maker this era she deserves her spot in the Trinity. If she doesn't I will feel no pity as the door smacks her on the way out.

If only these pop girls could be as refreshing as One Direction.

Glad you continue to parade your inability to ever add ANYTHING to a discussion.

Giving me Madge stan realness with the misdirection and going off topic to try to distract from the topic at hand.

 

[Matt_]

New Jonas Brothers video Pom Poms came out a couple of days ago. Click the pic for the link

One of them has shaved their head and looks vile, but the video is inoffensive

Spoiler

I hope that sex tape leaks asap so I can forget about these again

 

[Nemesis_]

Glad you continue to parade your inability to ever add ANYTHING to a discussion.

Giving me Madge stan realness with the misdirection and going off topic to try to distract from the topic at hand.

I don't do SALES, BILLBOARD or AIRPLAY UPDATES talk, which is all you seem to be fluent in.

Unfortunate.

 

[botty]

The Lana Del Rey Gatsby song is so good

Bi-polar marius is back

The beyonce commercial was ok.

 

[Aguila]

edit: anyone got a youtube link for vanbot? I don't have spotify

I can't find anything other than this amazon preview

you should totally get spotify if you can tho

 

[Wafflecakes]

I don't do SALES, BILLBOARD or AIRPLAY UPDATES talk, which is all you seem to be fluent in.

Unfortunate.

'

Yes it is unfortunate that you are incapable of discussing hard metrics when discussing topics which are directly relevant to them.

No surprise that you would rather stick to topics where if proven wrong you can just cry "it's just my opinion" and no one can counter with facts.

 

[Trigger]

New Jonas Brothers video Pom Poms came out a couple of days ago. Click the pic for the link

One of them has shaved their head and looks vile, but the video is inoffensive

Spoiler

I hope that sex tape leaks asap so I can forget about these again

This is somehow more generic than I actually imagined.

 

[Supermanisdead]

wait, that jonas brothers song.

 

[Wafflecakes]

This is somehow more generic than I actually imagined.

lol I avoided posting it for various reasons. Didn't want people to think I was biased.

Generic pretty much sums it up. The production value itself just wasn't very good.




(The Video does not do the song justice.)

 

[Majmun]

Beyoncé has nothing to prove. Even Xtina with her two gigatic flops has had more impact that Perra. And people still call Xtina a legend.

Bey has everything that a star needs. Her first flop album was even highly acclaimed and sold millions of copies. Most acts would feel blessed with such a flop.

The difference with Bey and Katy is also legacy and talent. Sure, that's not an important factor in current charts, or for your stanning, waffle. But those things have to be taken into account as well when judging a star. And Bey absolutely trashed Katy when it comes to those two things.

Bey just needs a comeback single to score a hit and chart well. But she doesn't need to worry about her reputation anymore. She has made it and is considered to be one of the best pop female artists out there. Perra has no chance to touch that.