Dr. Claus
Banned
Most of those games on Game Pass aren't console selling games. Hell, most of them are mediocre to low quality indie games. We get, maybe, 1-2 half decent games a month with maybe a massive blockbuster every 3-4.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Post-Sony's PS Conference, Does Microsoft Lack An IP/Char With Enough Mass-Market/Mainstream Appeal?
- Thread starter thicc_girls_are_teh_best
- Start date
- Opinion Business Platform
Most of those games on Game Pass aren't console selling games. Hell, most of them are mediocre to low quality indie games. We get, maybe, 1-2 half decent games a month with maybe a massive blockbuster every 3-4.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Did you read your own post before you posted it, or, where you too busy formatting it to emphasise PlayStation's success while handwaving away literally everything else? Wanting to discussing characters with mainstream appeal while uttering "it's not about software quality" between and coughing "these Microsoft brands don't count" is a pretty laughable premise for a thread.
"It's not about quality guys! No discussing quality! Now, PlayStation are successful because of they're high quality and Microsoft is unsuccessful because of they're low quality. But it's not about quality! I don't wanna see reviews, metacritic scores, fan videos, convention numbers, anecdotes, or posts that disagree with mine! Oh, and anything that Microsoft has bought doesn't count. Spiderman still counts for PlayStation though, because my post doesn't work without it. Now, tell me how right am I that Sony is high quality and Microsoft is low quality."
For tens of millions, Skyrim is role playing. It's characters, it's world, it's artwork and music. This has been many people's first deep role playing experience, and it continues to re-release and sell because of how magnetic it is.
In terms of cultural relevance, DOOM is fucking landmark that outclasses all but the biggest names in gaming; Pong, Pacman, Mario. It's known around the world and for decades. It's characters and content are part of the cultural landscape for an entire generation, and the game itself lives on to this day. If it has circuiting, someone will port DOOM to it.
Minecraft and all of its characters are more relevant to more gamers than anything PlayStation has ever made. This one title alone eclipses even Super Mario in terms of mainstream appeal. Let that sink in for a moment.
For a generation of folks, Halo is Xbox. While its nowhere near as popular as its hay-day, make no mistake: show non-gaming folks a picture of Master Chief, and they'd name probably call him "Halo guy". Show them a picture of Kratos from God of War, and they'd scratch their heads and ask why is he grey.
See, you got angry reading the OP and ignored the first thing mentioned in it, which you quoted, despite quoting it anyway. When I said this wasn't an objective argument on game quality, I meant it, because I know of many excellent games that went commercially ignored throughout the industry. We have too many examples to just go "sales are related to quality" and just leave it at that, so no I wasn't being condescending when I mentioned the part you quoted, I earnestly believe in it.
But the whole point of this thread is about if those games have enough brand power to have enough of a footprint in cultural mindshare to be a larger part of the gaming zeitgeist among not just gamers, but the mainstream and non-gamers, too. And even if they do, are they strongly associated enough with Microsoft and the Xbox brand to ultimately be of benefit to those brands.
You list DOOM, Elder Scrolls and all those other IP yet ask yourself how many still view those as "Bethesda" IP and multiplat still, instead of as Microsoft IP that are exclusive to the Xbox ecosystem. The fact there's still journalists doubting if games like Starfield are exclusive, despite multiple clarifications, should signal what the answer is there, and it's something both Microsoft and Bethesda know they have to work on solidifying so that it's no longer in doubt. You point to Minecraft yet that is seen by and large as its own thing among the mainstream and even a lot of gamers, it's not an IP really associated as part of the XGS umbrella despite Microsoft owning it, and Microsoft themselves have kind of kept it that way for their own reasons. Time will tell if they push to associate Minecraft more strongly with their Xbox and GamePass brands as a 1P property. Should they? I think so, but we'll see if they actually do.
So you see, this, again, was NEVER about if the games are good or how good, I can't stress that enough. It has firmly, squarely been about the brand power of the IPs in terms of their cultural mindshare with both gamers and non-gamers (the larger mass culture, particularly globally) at large, and if those IPs are strongly associated with Microsoft's 1P and the Xbox ecosystem. If not, what can Microsoft do to address that, because they would need to in order to truly grow Xbox (and by association, GamePass) as a brand to reach its fullest potential.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
There's no doubt that Sony are building off a lot of work that Marvel and...Sony Pictures (let's be real, Disney hasn't been the one doing the lionshare of work for the Spidy films, credit goes to Sony Pictures there) put in for the character in the years and decades prior. But it doesn't change the fact that it's Sony in terms of the gaming space who are the chief beneficiaries of that work, today. Right now. And that's the part which is ultimately important here.
I don't see why the idea of major mascots and game genre diversity are mutually exclusive tho? I mean, you can have both, and in some ways Nintendo shows that. Look at the variety in the various Mario games for example. And teh truth is, you need both in order to have a successful gaming platform ecosystem.
I'm not even saying Microsoft doesn't have major mascots; they have Master Chief after all, for example. My question has and will continue to be, tho: do they have anything which can dominate the cultural mindshare and participate in the zeitgeist in a way comparable to SpiderMan, or Mario, or GTA or Fortnite? And, once again, this has nothing to inherently do with the game's objective quality, moreso about certain character design/world design/narrative design elements that speak to audiences at a more emotional level.
That's interesting and it's something of a bad decision if true. I don't get why they are being so either/or on it; both strategies can work if applied correctly. I mean, Sony is essentially doing just that and look at what it is getting them
I've also been thinking a bit if maybe Microsoft are being too insistent on getting big releases from 3Ps in GamePass Day 1 and if that could have, or is, costing them certain timed exclusivity deals with the larger 3P releases. Because on that note if you think about it, what has GamePass had since Outriders and MLB The Show '21 along major AA/AAA 3P releases into GamePass? Not much. What 3P AAA timed exclusives have they had for Xbox since then? None that I can think of.
So I'm definitely curious if there's a correlation and, if so, do believe Microsoft should ease up on it because that could be hurting both not only GamePass but Xbox too, and anything that ends up hurting Xbox definitely hurts GamePass, but the opposite doesn't necessarily always hold true.
Hey, you can like those games just fine and there's no problem with that, but let's face the facts here: they were both very poorly received by critics, especially The Tomorrow Children. We can simply look at the Meta scores for both and see this is true.
And no, quality hasn't been the issue for many of their 1P and 3P co-funded games because, again, we can simply look at the Meta scores. All the Forza games have scored high. Cuphead was well-received, same with the two Ori games. Sunset Overdrive was received okay but was very inventive (and deserved a sequel; hopefully it gets one now under Sony). TitanFall was very well-received and let to a popular cult franchise. Even games like Gears 5 were pretty decently received hitting mid-80s Meta.
That's hard evidence right there which is exactly why I said what I said from the get-go. But that said, Meta scores shouldn't absolutely be the determining factor for if someone enjoys a game, so if you subjectively enjoy something like The Order 1886 or Tomorrow Children more than the games I just mentioned, that's perfectly fine.
Lol I can understand the sentiment, but to me it's not about Microsoft lapping up rights for big AAA superhero games. It could be, say, doing something with the Star Trek license, or The Matrix, or maybe Breaking Bad or some J-Drama or K-Drama for those markets. If they have 1P teams that would be interested and passionate, and MS could work out a good licensing deal, why not tap into funding an Xbox & GamePass exclusive with those type of IP, or even a few of them?
They can do that while simultaneously still investing in original IP and building them up for long-term brand power and cultural mindshare relevance. Win-win situation all around.
Still not sure how true this is. Does Minecraft have advertising that specifically puts Microsoft in there as the mention? Also let's say people do associate the brand with Microsoft, but do they associate it as an Xbox IP or a brand mainly affiliated with Xbox? Because those could still be two different things and them associating it with Microsoft may not necessarily benefit the Xbox brand if it's in the way they associate, say, a MGS with Konami but still view that as a PlayStation IP.
This is statistically a false narrative and needs to die. The vast majority of gams on GamePass are 75 or better MetaCritic scores, and a healthy percentage of them are 80 or higher. In terms of content curation GamePass is probably the best service in the industry going by pure statistical averages.
If you want a place where mediocrity thrives with little to no filtration, look at Nintendo's eShop. That suits this type of narrative better.
Last edited:
Magnific0giganticus
Banned
That picture is really sad. More than half of that is vaporware at this point. Some orhers are 2023 and beyond games. Is there really something in that picture that has the potential to be a major gaming event? Is that library as a whole supposed to bring many millions of subs to Game Pass? At what point will Game Pass have that whole picture available at the same time, I wonder. 2024? Will it be enough? Won't it be too late?Just for those who genuinely want to have "an idea".
Hawking Radiation
Member
Give Xbox time to craft their own characters/IP with enough mass market appeal.
They've just dumped ridiculous amounts of money into their 1st party studios. We can't ask these questions now. It will take a few years for us to see what they have planned and then we can revisit this question.
They've just dumped ridiculous amounts of money into their 1st party studios. We can't ask these questions now. It will take a few years for us to see what they have planned and then we can revisit this question.
Yselacrey00
Banned
Batman second to spiderman? You gotta be joking. Batman is the best superhero ever.
Exanthus
Banned
I like it when people start talking sense.
MS had to really catch up after the 2013 debacle... It has taken a long time but have only just now started making moves
MrFunSocks
Banned
As others have said, Minecraft is the biggest selling game of all time, with more mass market mainstream appeal than any sony franchise they can ever dream of.
Thread is ridiculous.
Thread is ridiculous.
sendit
Member
Crap Sony biased thread lacking facts. If the same Xbox thread was made it would be locked.
Laughs in an echo of these characters -
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/58119759/wolfenstein_bj.0.jpg)
Aside from Halo. None of those are synonymous with the Xbox brand. For example no one thinks of Microsoft when you bring up Fallout or Doom.
Last edited:
They have some iconic characters they just haven't released anything super good in a while. Even for their established franchises, the quality has taken a hit in recent years. They do well with offering some nice indies, co-op games, and offering a nice collection variety of proven classics that can be played anytime on their gamepass. I am impressed by how much quality stuff rotates into the service every month. Stuff like Roguelikes/Metroidvanias that I normally won't buy unless it's on sale since I won't put in a ton of hours into them but I'll gladly do a few runs here and there. I am glad that despite the lack of big iconic brands they are finding some good success with their strategy. I never thought I'd sub to a service like gamepass but I've gotten good value out of my sub for the past few months and I use it for PC only.
Yeah they are still playing catch up to Sony but I think things will look a lot different in 1-3 years. All they need a big mainstream hit that will get the gaming world buzzing like Fallout 4 and Skyrim did. Maybe Halo will get the ball rolling if it's really good. Maybe Starfield will do it. But certainly by the time a new Fallout or Elder Scrolls comes around people will sub in droves. After that, they should be able to continue to build momentum based on the sheer number of studios alone. While they are missing entries in a few types of games, mainly third person action games like what Sony excels at, they still have a lot coming that resonates well with western audiences. This generation sort of reminds of the PS3, which had a slow start but really turned it around by the end.
I absolutely love Sony games and am very invested in their franchises. They've done a pretty good job so far releasing some well received games since the PS5 launch. But from the looks of things they are losing their grasp on Japanese games exclusivity that really solidified their platform for me. But outside of personal factors, I just think that overall in today's climate of kids playing mostly f2p stuff, something that's gonna cost a flat 10 bucks a month is going to work better with the mainstream casual audience than 70 dollar games, as long as they can bring the heat with some quality titles. If they can get their hands on a couple of big BR games on gamepass with some exclusive marketing/DLC, along with some big western games in the vein of Elder Scrolls, they can easily end up dominating the tail end of the generation.
Yeah they are still playing catch up to Sony but I think things will look a lot different in 1-3 years. All they need a big mainstream hit that will get the gaming world buzzing like Fallout 4 and Skyrim did. Maybe Halo will get the ball rolling if it's really good. Maybe Starfield will do it. But certainly by the time a new Fallout or Elder Scrolls comes around people will sub in droves. After that, they should be able to continue to build momentum based on the sheer number of studios alone. While they are missing entries in a few types of games, mainly third person action games like what Sony excels at, they still have a lot coming that resonates well with western audiences. This generation sort of reminds of the PS3, which had a slow start but really turned it around by the end.
I absolutely love Sony games and am very invested in their franchises. They've done a pretty good job so far releasing some well received games since the PS5 launch. But from the looks of things they are losing their grasp on Japanese games exclusivity that really solidified their platform for me. But outside of personal factors, I just think that overall in today's climate of kids playing mostly f2p stuff, something that's gonna cost a flat 10 bucks a month is going to work better with the mainstream casual audience than 70 dollar games, as long as they can bring the heat with some quality titles. If they can get their hands on a couple of big BR games on gamepass with some exclusive marketing/DLC, along with some big western games in the vein of Elder Scrolls, they can easily end up dominating the tail end of the generation.
LMJ
Member
Perhaps not, but they (Microsoft) currently have just as likely a chance as they did during the 360 peak (Banjo, Viva Pinata, Conker etc)
While I agree that LBP isn't a "high watermark" the adorable Sackboy has become a mascot of Sony enough that he got his own Mario 3D World-eqse adventure
During the PS2 Sony did indeed rely heavily on exclusive 3rd party, but they still built Franchises as well (Jak, Ratchet, Sly, Twisted Metal) and I would agree with you which I'm fine with if Sony is helping fund these projects in some way.
I mentioned this, the problem with the Zenimax purchase (yes I mean those words lol) is that these are established WELL KNOWN publishers...and Bethesda in particular will take some time before people associate it as a MS property...For a while Doom, Elderscrolls etc will be seen as Bethesda by the masses rather than a Microsoft property
As mentioned above while I think that these new entries will do just fine (maybe even great with the MS funding) I still see many looking at them as Bethesda IP's rather than MS...They have Doublefine to help give them a quirky identity unfortunately (in regards to this specific topic) the Phenominal Psychonauts will be seen by many as a multi-plat rather than a MS exclusive IP due to the PS4 assurances through Fig when the contract was signed.
Burythelight
Member
Look a the waporware and non exisent-games. Walfenstein 3Just for those who genuinely want to have "an idea".
GHG
Member
Well I have some good news for you, I don't like those games.
I also don't need to delude myself with an alternate history wherein everything was fine and dandy for Xbox first party last generation and believe they didn't have a quality issue.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Just for those who genuinely want to have "an idea".
Stacked. The conversation about Xbox not having games is over. Doesn't even go into Gamepass, third party or indies either. There's a ton of games in that screenshot I want to play. My family and I are playing a ton of games on Gamepass currently across Series X, One X and OG One.
Brand association is in transition for now but when MS/Xbox 100% own those franchises it's a rather moot point you're making. Doom and Minecraft alone are at stratospheric levels with Mario or Tetris. Again it just points to the bias in the OP and title of this thread. Halo and Chief is still beyond "just gaming alone" recognisable thanks to its marketing during Halo 2/3 times. Whether you like the games or not any windows user knows Cortana, any young to middle age person knows Chief/Halo. The theme song on its own is more recognisable to the general population than 90% of characters Sony puts out there.
Mario shits on them all, in reality the thread title should have been do Sony and Xbox have enough mass market appeal against Mario and Nintendo going handheld? At least that would have been based on something factual and worthy of discussion.
Last edited:
12Dannu123
Member
Licensed IP makes absolutely no sense for a subscription service. You don't own the IP and when that licensed IP becomes popular then you're forced to pay millions more than you should to keep that IP on your subscription service, so your subscription base doesn't collapse. There's a good reason why Phil Spencer has said that he doesn't like licensing content, because that model doesn't work with subscription services. It's why MS prefers buying the IP outright.
Good news for you, no one cares about your taste, and it means nothing.
Good news for you, no one cares about your taste, and it means nothing.
Last edited:
GHG
Member
Funny that, last time I checked Xbox went on a spending spree in an attempt to rectify their first party issue.
Silly them, they should have saved the cash, completely unnecessary.
Yselacrey00
Banned
Robb
Gold Member
I feel like I'm out of the loop here, the only game I would consider actual vaporware there is Everwild.
I mean, almost the entire top row will be out in a couple of months.
It’s quite obvious it wasn’t enough for a subscription service. Even after Zenimax they’re not done buying studios.
sendit
Member
Even Minecraft isn't synonymous with the Xbox ecosystem. Minecraft started on the PC and is now on every platform/mobile device you can think of. Again, no one thinks of Xbox when you bring up Minecraft. And Doom isn't on the same field as either Mario or Tetris.
Jigsaah
Member
I like Batman more than Spiderman...I'm just saying in terms of popularity I think Spiderman probably has him beat. I guess i shoulda clarified by not saying "to me". It seems to me that Spiderman is more popular than Batman.
I could be wrong though.
Last edited:
sendit
Member
By comic book sales metric. Batman has Spiderman beat.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_comic_series
Jigsaah
Member
Interesting. Do kids these days collect comic books still. I don't have kids so I don't know.
Darlingcognito
Member
Look a the waporware and non exisent-games. Walfenstein 3
The games have been shown as much as KOTOR, Wolverine and Spiderman 2. Are they vaporware as well?
Silent Viper
Banned
What do you expect from Fanboys?
Oversaturation of Marvel IPs going on and im kinda not excited for any Marvel games or movies except new Wolverine game as it didn't got much love from Marvel.
@thicc (op)
My question to you is that where are new exclusive Sony shooters, multiplayer games and WRPGs?
MS is home of WRPGs now, racing games and one of the best industry shooters.
Sony strength is SP and they fail at other genre. MS so far weak in SP only but they got SP only game coming with Hellblade 2, Avowed and all.
Each company got its strength and weaknesses. Stop with needless console war bait shit. Go look yourself in mirror and slap yourself for creating this pathetic thread.
Last edited:
Silent Viper
Banned
Kotor a timed exclusive from a unknown dev early in development not coming anytime soon but ps fans going crazy like it will be insta goty like first game. Lol
Wolverine early in development too
Just FH5 alone will be. that's in 2 months, not in 2 years.
Saaleh
Banned
Unique and NEW GEN single player experiences like [bioshock 1 / Alan wake / gears 1 / halo 3 / splinter cell convection/fable2] what gave xbox 360 a meaning. It wasn't just the multiplayer part.. so yes, they NEED to get back to that exciting spirit. Their leadership needs to reflect that sense of talent and excitement, so good luck. :<
We really need impressive next gen games. This new gen will be 2 years longer for sure.
We really need impressive next gen games. This new gen will be 2 years longer for sure.
Last edited:
Starfield
Member
Alot of people here are going to buy a xbox/gamepass for me next year
and Idk. Masterchief is as relevant to the mainstream audience as Spiderman. Granted Spiderman is probably more popular due to the comics/movies, but that doesnt mean everyone who likes Spiderman will want to play Spiderman videogame or even plays videogames at al whereas everyone who likes Masterchief probably played a Halo game or knows someone
and Idk. Masterchief is as relevant to the mainstream audience as Spiderman. Granted Spiderman is probably more popular due to the comics/movies, but that doesnt mean everyone who likes Spiderman will want to play Spiderman videogame or even plays videogames at al whereas everyone who likes Masterchief probably played a Halo game or knows someone
Last edited:
mejin
Member
No, the problem is not the IPs.
When the next big game of Halo is coming from a dev with more than 700 people, plus 6 years in development and the result is a launch of an incomplete game and Just reasonable quality...
I know OP don't want to recognize It is the quality of the games, but It really is.
When the next big game of Halo is coming from a dev with more than 700 people, plus 6 years in development and the result is a launch of an incomplete game and Just reasonable quality...
I know OP don't want to recognize It is the quality of the games, but It really is.
Papacheeks
Banned
Look a the waporware and non exisent-games. Walfenstein 3
Everwild is Vaporware at this point since the entire project has rebooted recently. Only studios that can put things out at a reasonable clip is Ninja Theory, Obsidian. I expect Avowed, and hell blade 2 before anything else.
Are you talking comic books now? Because thats almost everyone at this point in comic books because of the BS woke shit they are trying to force into their storylines/characters. But if you go back even 10 years theres tons of great story lines that came from marvel comics.
I can name a bunch of Graphic novels/ paper backs that are fantastic. I mean your allowed not to like stuff, everyone has their own taste. But the MCU is huge, Marvel's charcters are loved by millions which is why SPiderman sells so much.
You are in the minority. So if thats not something that you like than you dont have to buy Insomniac's games. There are tons of other IP's coming from Playstation. Expect these announcements and the spotlight on Insomniac to light the fire under other developers within Sony to get their shit together.
I bet you Herman has been making the rounds last year or so seeing how other people run. Which is where that report from Jason came from on studios being moved to other projects.
Got to understand oldschool marvel fans like myself who grew up on xmen cartoon, punisher comics love what Insomniac is doing. And if lets say Naughty Dog were to do a max payne style punisher game I would love my shit as I loved the punisher game by Volition.
But in any case this pushed the rest of everyone to push for quality and be efficient with their development. Which means you get more games at a much better timeframe.
Last edited:
kuncol02
Banned
So you already played it?
Papacheeks
Banned
A lot of people were in the alpha. The multiplayer I'm not worried about, Halo will have a good life across console and PC. But we now have seen or heard nothing on the campaign. And with co-op campaign being delayed until sometime next year it paints a picture of this still coming in hot.
And you would have to be ignorant to the turmoil this game has had in its development. The rumors last year of them shipping the game in parts now hold water when looking at the state of the game and how they have framed it. Imagine if they tried to ship this last year?
And we have confirmation from Mountain dew and monster energy promotional stuff being leaked last year. I believe that when everything is said and done it will be a good halo product. But the bigger question is why is this coming in pieces and in installments?
Other developers are able to deliver games at a consistent release schedule, 343 seem to have issues over multiple projects. And they are not the only developer having issues.
I think it paints a picture that even legacy studios like 343/Rare having issues, how can people have faith in new studios Microsoft purchases and manages?
Last edited:
Look a the waporware and non exisent-games. Walfenstein 3
Right, "vaporware". Of course.
Next slogan, please. Looks like vaporware won't stick.
Papacheeks
Banned
Right, "vaporware". Of course.
Next slogan, please. Looks like vaporware won't stick.
So 5 games that are first party? one of them coming in pieces. In terms of first party thats about all we got out of microsoft. ANd to be honest compared to Nintendo/Sony it's not impressive. Or outside of Forza/Halo has mass appeal.
The thread is about IP's that have some kind of mass appeal or character based IP.
Halo and Forza really are the only titles that have that out of that list of "First Party".
recursive
Member
90s style arena shooters just dont have that mass appeal anymore. Most other franchises have moved on.
Topher
Identifies as young
Starfield
Member
Forgetting that sentence after did we?
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Poll