I'm curious if there are stats on this? Probably not. No idea where they would even come from.
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Post-Women's March: white women, working class, and people might need to reflect
- Thread starter Messofanego
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Ravensmash
Member
And how many marched across the US and across the world in support on Saturday?
Whilst I'd never be against looking at the actual analytics, no one should be seeking to cause divisions in the opposition against Trump.
A fractured opposition is no fucking use.
No use.
plagiarize
Banned
What pisses me off about the infighting is that as much as I disagreed with some of Bernie's positions, I was prepared to fight for him 100% if he had won the primaries, because of everything that was at stake.
I don't know what we do about the people who still haven't got over the fact Bernie wasn't the candidate. I don't know that we can convince them to overlook not getting 100% of what they want in order to push forwards a greater good.
I really think they're lost to us, and we have to just hope we can swing people from the middle back, and maybe drive more turnout.
the feminist movement has serious problems with intersectionality; by its very existence it could never transcend race.
When people ask me to apologize for terrorists, I tell them to piss off. I don't own that problem. My white female friend in DC that voted for Hillary doesn't own the problem of my white female co-workers that voted against their interests. If that's a conversation white women want to have with each other, that's great, but I'm not gonna ask them to introspect for people half way across the country that are just as alien to them as it is for anyone else.
Those tweets are fairly gross. I don't understand trying to shame people that came out to support you based on assumptions about them?
Like I understand talking about white men as just being a stand in for the establishment but they appear to be trying to shame supporters directly?
Like I understand talking about white men as just being a stand in for the establishment but they appear to be trying to shame supporters directly?
Please don't let this thread devolve into yet another re-litigation of the primary.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Could you not even make it to the end of my post where I gave an example? Also, lol at thinking whiteness being the only descriptor. Not surprised.
jakonovski
Member
My other guess as to why this thread is a thing is that the Christian roots of American culture are way too big on Repentance.
whyamihere
Banned
I'm just blinking.
#ShitPost
At this point Im just convinced these people are stupid, and looking for a simple reaction, nuance be damned.
Bay Maximus
Banned
As a current Pennsylvanian that knows white women that couldn't be bothered to vote but takes the time to post themselves protesting on social media, it kind of rubs me the wrong way. I realize that this is a minority of people but honestly if you don't give a damn, why pretend that you do? If you're in a swing state and can't be bothered to vote you obviously don't give a shit. And that's your right but your fake concern is unneeded. Again that's directed for the small segment that cares now that it's the cool but not a couple of months ago.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Only about 56% of eligibal voters actually voted in the GE. Maybe a lot of people just thought she had it in the bag and got lethargic.Though it was about consistent with total voters are usual, so, maybe 40% of the country just doesn't give a damn eitherway, not matter how bad of an ass the other side has running.
King Tubby
Member
How the fuck do blanket attacks on white women (or anyone aside from those who actually supported Trump) help anything or anyone?
I don't give a fuck if white people are "fragile". I only care if they vote blue. If you want to be indignant, then fuck off because you are probably not helping that objective. Attacks on any demographic do little except engender resentment among members of that demographic who would otherwise be on your side, because the ones who aren't on your side don't give a fuck anyway.
Aren't you adorable. "I'm going to generalize black people to show them they shouldn't generalize white people." You're not clever.
Doesn't really have anything to do with what I was talking about TBH.
fart town usa
Member
Lol. I like this post.
These groups were already not helping and did not want to help if pointing out a flaw in their worldview causes a short-circuit of sympathy towards anyone that doesn't look like them.
You are seemingly proposing minorities to coddle people who likely were not going to do anything for them – as perching atop a pillar of privilege is more comforting than the allyship of a minority could ever be – and consequently have minorities bury their own suffering with the hope that there will be some trickle-down sympathy from the white power they're supposed to caress.
Evidently, by the continued existence of institutional racism, that tactic hasn't worked. Evidently, looking at pivotal moments of progress, protesting and confronting the issues have worked.
You wanted me to address the predictable reach towards the image of black males being unsympathetic towards LGTBQIA? Of course not. Try a less problematic analogy next time.
Oh I agree. I just can't wrap my head around the fact so much energy in this thread is being wasted on that first tweet when all of it should be focused on the elephant in the room: more White Women for for Trump than against him - what do we do about that moving forward?
SMH
Posts like these in this context have me more worried about that Democratic party moving forward than anything else
FortuneFaded
Member
My mum says I'm clever.
Absolutely. Which is why people who win power struggles will almost always be opportunists rather than idealists.
That's not to say democrats need to give up all morality to get into power. That would defeat the point.
But at the very least they should take advantage of good opportunities they get. Events like this march are fantastic recruiting grounds. They should be used as such.
KurtSloane
Banned
Neither are those posts in the OP.
The right will love this infighting.
Keep playing the blame game y'all!
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
So now we've gone from we're sure they all voted for Trump to "they probably didn't vote at all". Well, that's only logical assumption from seeing a picture of them at a march.
I don't really think you were the intended audience for that post.
plagiarize
Banned
I personally saw the marches as a way for a lot of people to heal from the recent losses and gather strength for the long fight ahead. I hope they do lead to some more targeted activism, but I think even if they don't, they had some value by letting people who feel helpless and maybe even isolated, see that they are part of something much bigger.
That's the sort of thing that makes it easier to keep fighting.
StrategyFan
Member
this is just as dumb as trump lackeys asking where all the protesters were on election day
We all literally own the problem of Trump getting into office.
This thread is about liberals going after those marching in protest for the cause as a whole during the cold, rainy winter
LucidMomentum
Member
The US has a huge problem with people not wanting to perform civic duties.
See jury duty, for instance.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
See, we talk about people not understanding each other, but I'm not sure the other side understands the issue either.
It's not that easy to basically turn against your family, community, and friends who all believe differently than you. It takes a lot of courage to stand in the face of a huge group of people and tell them that you think their beliefs are garbage and especially so when they're literally those closest to you. In some cases, it's asking someone to give up close relationships altogether, often with no possible replacement or total alienation from their community if they do so. Many people actually do do this and are now met with, "everything is your fault for not trying harder" like that isn't super insensitive or frustrating.
Like, someone might not be able to even talk with their mother and father anymore, but hey, it's just another sign of white fragility when they complain that it feels like people are pointing the finger of blame squarely on them.
It's not that easy to basically turn against your family, community, and friends who all believe differently than you. It takes a lot of courage to stand in the face of a huge group of people and tell them that you think their beliefs are garbage and especially so when they're literally those closest to you. In some cases, it's asking someone to give up close relationships altogether, often with no possible replacement or total alienation from their community if they do so. Many people actually do do this and are now met with, "everything is your fault for not trying harder" like that isn't super insensitive or frustrating.
Like, someone might not be able to even talk with their mother and father anymore, but hey, it's just another sign of white fragility when they complain that it feels like people are pointing the finger of blame squarely on them.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Disregard. Been covered.
DerangedHermit
Member
You might need to invest into your reading skills if that's what you took away from his post.
That's what you took from that huh
Okay. But if you marched because you needed to heal, why not do something in 2018? March all you want, don't mean a thing unless you vote in 2018.
What other generalizations about us blacks do you have to share?
And you keep defending nazis.
Yes, this thread is about minorities in a march telling you that even those same "liberals" have not done enough to help them.
Aaronology
Member
Probably not. I was a minority at the BLM events I've attended here in New Mexico, and the opposite back home in Chicago. I'm not sure stats would matter, though. My view is simple enough: The majority of white America is racist and has always been. You can't convince me Trump did not win almost entirely due to bigotry. On the other hand, the slow progress of civil rights in this country has, at every point, been shouldered by the alliance of white progressives and people of color. White or black, the people who fail to understand this are part of the problem.
KurtSloane
Banned
Sure, np.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Religious people are not the most scrutinous folk - they normally go with what their pastor tells them. And under-education can exempt a shit-ton of stuff - never underestimate good old human ignorance. The something else part - surely there was racism/supremacy at work as well. But the majority of people just tend to fall for the populist angle - under-educated people tend to do that. How do I know that without being an American? Simple - it works this way in the rest of the world. Populism and nationalism are on the rise in EU. Those traditionally go with a siding of racism/supremacy/past-greatness-to-be-restored. Sounds familiar?
Then what can they do to help?
If voting for Clinton and protesting isn't "enough" then what else can they do?
Why are you so willing to judge people when voting in 2018 hasn't happened yet? What makes you so sure every single person in that march won't vote?
Oh totally, that's exactly how I feel.
I was just thinking about stuff I've read saying women are - in general - more likely to be politically active on a grassroots level and wondering aloud.
Yep.
Hell, we can always use more volunteers as well - at all times. 90% of the policies that shape your day to day life are local policies set by local politicians. Fight locally.
Relevant to the "people need to vote in 2018" commentary - we need to work hard on young PoC turnout - it cost us this election.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...ayed-home-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
Ravensmash
Member
And maybe that's not the right approach, when there's a huge fucking wave of protest and anger against Trump that's still cresting. Right now.
But "Thanks but your show of support was pointless/irrelevant" surely helps to embolden that spirit!
Obliterator
Member
Mostly because generalizing groups in general whoever they are is probably really not the right call. You didn't see Obama hardly do it at all during elections (though a bit)
That's kind of the problem, the left is becoming truly obsessed with identity politics. The issue with that is often times lifting up one group it can be easy to start to paint another in a different light. Focus on improving the lives of people of color and you may find yourself broadly painting white people in a negative light. Focus on women's rights and you may find yourself painting large groups of men in a negative light. Etc.
Now that's not saying these issues aren't important they are. The problem, at least in terms of if you want to win people to your side is positivity. Obama straight won the election due to preaching a message of Hope. It was more inclusive than exclusive. The current atmosphere in the left is to focus on a certain identity politic at each given time and largely paint "others" as misogynist, racist, etc. It's just not going to work. You don't energize people by being negative to them.
As dumb and as full of shit as Trump was his slogan of "Make America Great Again" was brilliant because on a surface level to the general public it sounds like a positive message.
Again Dems need another Obama
fart town usa
Member
It's not so much sympathy as it is recognizing that white privilege has limits.
You know, there are political scientists who have made connections between the growing black middle class and a new disdain towards their own race who are members of a lower economic class. Like I said earlier, white privilege is real, to a varied extent, but the economic class struggle is something that affects communities of all colors and correcting these economic concerns can correct racial issues as well. My point is that it's not simply an issue of race 100% of the time.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The sooner people stop trying to paint everybody of a certain skin color and sex as some predetermined fucking stereotype the better. Not everyone that isn't your race/gender is out to get you. This damn fucking hate ouroboros gets old. I'm getting sick of seeing clearly hateful mentalities being flung both directions and people patting themselves on the back DID IT FOR THE TEAM FUCK THE REST and shit gets applauded like they said some positive world changing thing.
These "white fragility" post are a fucking toxic mentality.
These "white fragility" post are a fucking toxic mentality.
No a damn sign like promotes the mentally that white people are out to get them don't trust them it fuels the race hate loop
This is how you get 8 years of Trump.
Individual agency means nothing, and I am personally responsible for the actions of members of my racial group that I have absolutely nothing in common with.
Believe me, I tried to convince my family of Trump voters not to do it. I got through to TWO of them out of the 20 or so I spoke with.
I'm also a card carrying member of the DNC, maxed out my donations to HRC and was at the March.
But I'm sure my wife and I are part of the problem.
Counter productive as fuck. I get that POC are mad, and they have every right to be, but blaming members of a group of people for the actions of other people of that group is not altogether useful and is frankly dismissive of the decades of work some of these women have done to advance the cause of feminism out of hand because they are white.
And don't call it "white fragility". I have every right to be mad for being lumped in with the action of people that I loath and vehemently have opposed my entire life.
Individual agency means nothing, and I am personally responsible for the actions of members of my racial group that I have absolutely nothing in common with.
Believe me, I tried to convince my family of Trump voters not to do it. I got through to TWO of them out of the 20 or so I spoke with.
I'm also a card carrying member of the DNC, maxed out my donations to HRC and was at the March.
But I'm sure my wife and I are part of the problem.
Counter productive as fuck. I get that POC are mad, and they have every right to be, but blaming members of a group of people for the actions of other people of that group is not altogether useful and is frankly dismissive of the decades of work some of these women have done to advance the cause of feminism out of hand because they are white.
And don't call it "white fragility". I have every right to be mad for being lumped in with the action of people that I loath and vehemently have opposed my entire life.
CountAntonius
Member
Hillary was the devil to concervatives. A ton of(not just white) women still hold concervative values. This country is incredibly concervative still. I know a ton of them and I am a Mexican living in southern California. People tend to cherry pick certain issues and ignore the rest even those that will hurt them in favor of concervative views. We also assume they do as much research about their candidate as the average person on the internet. They don't. They live on their echochamber Facebook feed.
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