Producer Simon Kinberg wants a brighter Fantastic Four (2015) sequel, same cast
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Not as ridiculous as their output.
CertifiedFP
Member
They're intentionally scuttling the brand before they're forced to give it back to Disney, that's why.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Reviews are so I can complain about shit I don't like and feel slightly justified for it
Business decisions even something like rights ownership should probably not be influenced by reviews or critics
Business decisions even something like rights ownership should probably not be influenced by reviews or critics
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah it is.
"Just give them the rights back."
That's ridiculous. Marvel didn't "just give them" the rights in the first place. Nobody "just gives" the rights to characters away. Not even Stephen King. He at least charges a buck.
For as dour & serious as X-Men and FF have been while at Fox, they've also established audiences can and will roll with hokey bullshit like alternate timelines and time travel. Which shouldn't have been all that hard to learn, considering films like Back to the Future and Terminator have existed for decades now and proved audiences can wrap their heads around that shit. But hey.
ANYWAY: With those things set in place, Fox can, if they want (and with Days of Future Past, they've proved they will, because they did want) use Time Travel/Alternate Dimensions to work themselves out of a jam. They'll just pop over somehwere else and fly the bird at what didn't work on the way over there.
I'm betting that's what they're looking to do with FF. I can't imagine they'll stick with that look, that tone, that any of it. They'll use DOFP and First Class as positive examples and go from there.
Oppo
Member
well .. I know better than to cross swords with you over comic matters
but.. that said: Batman can at least deal interestingly with vigilantism and being "super" without powers. But I agree that Superman and Wonder Woman are also pretty threadbare and dull at the core. The older concepts like those DC folks and F4 just usually do not update well. You'd have to remix it so thoroughly that a successful treatment could be applied to virtually any comic story in the end. Newer Marvel stuff is just that, newer, a little more accessible, and little more... adroit with current issues, you could say. Or I would anyways. X-men dealing with persecution and government interference for instance.
And Dr. Doom is a saturday morning cartoon villain. Like what is the interesting hook about him (seriously, educate me on your favourite Doom arc)? How is the Thing not just a depressed Hulk? How is Stretchy Guy not going to be ultra dumb no matter what? At least Rocket had pathos stemming from being tortured!
again I would never say "it can't ever be good" but there's better stuff than F4 to target, and the superhero market is very very very well served lately.
shira
Member
Captain America, for full circle
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Fox don't do this to yourselves just give it back
Pejo
Member
I hate that the character (not the actor) of Doctor Doom is being held hostage from Disney Marvel movies. Therefor, I want no more sequels from Fox.
I also don't really care about the cast one way or the other, but I definitely don't need another origins story if they start with a new one.
I also don't really care about the cast one way or the other, but I definitely don't need another origins story if they start with a new one.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Because they wanted to make "Grounded Four" so instead of the awesome badass Doom from the comics we basically got a murderous asshole with Matrix powers wearing a trash bag
Violence Jack
Member
Why would they attempt this yet again if the last one bombed?
I'm hoping they go with the FF making cameo appearances in Deadpool/X-Men movies.
I'm hoping they go with the FF making cameo appearances in Deadpool/X-Men movies.
From whose point of view? Fox - Absolutely. For marvel fans in general, F4 going back would be bigger than Spider-Man returning.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
What wasn't?
I think this is the shittiest ideas in long time. Who would watch a sequel for one of the most horrible comic book movies ever?
well .. I know better than to cross swords with you over comic matters
but.. that said: Batman can at least deal interestingly with vigilantism and being "super" without powers. But I agree that Superman and Wonder Woman are also pretty threadbare and dull at the core. The older concepts like those DC folks and F4 just usually do not update well. You'd have to remix it so thoroughly that a successful treatment could be applied to virtually any comic story in the end. Newer Marvel stuff is just that, newer, a little more accessible, and little more... adroit with current issues, you could say. Or I would anyways. X-men dealing with persecution and government interference for instance.
And Dr. Doom is a saturday morning cartoon villain. Like what is the interesting hook about him (seriously, educate me on your favourite Doom arc)? How is the Thing not just a depressed Hulk? How is Stretchy Guy not going to be ultra dumb no matter what? At least Rocket had pathos stemming from being tortured!
again I would never say "it can't ever be good" but there's better stuff than F4 to target, and the superhero market is very very very well served lately.
I disagree, no one has done the superheroes as a family.
More_Badass
Member
My ideal FF movie would ignore the super heroics and focus on them as scientists, explorers, and family. Like a cross-dimensional Interstellar, and only they can explore those weird and alien places due to their intelligence and abilities
God yes. So much this.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
A whole movie of them challenging the unknown huh?
If Disney (and Marvel Studios) really want the rights to FF back, they should just pay up. I'm sure they can get them back if they offer a high enough price (even if it means they overpay). Fox isn't just going to hand them over for free.
Fox would be smart to just push out low budget movies every few years to keep the rights until Disney pays up.
Fox would be smart to just push out low budget movies every few years to keep the rights until Disney pays up.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
You get it.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
You are a high up producer at Fox. You have hundreds of millions of dollars and can make a movie with any of the FF or X-Men characters or any of Fox's other properties. And out of all this your choice is to make a sequel to F4antastic?
Pai Pai Master
Banned
But that would require knowledge of and respect for the source material. Too hard.
I do it for free. Just need a bottle of everclear, an office, and an assistant
More_Badass
Member
You can even do a comic accurate Doom. Have the dimensional expeditions being funded by a multi-national coalition, of which the nation of Latveria is the largest backer and a contributor of some of the expedition's advanced technology. Its mysterious leader has a vested interest in the Four exploring and gathering cosmic data, for both humanitarian (and secretly nefarious) reasons
Nah, a good F4 movie can be made, just not by Fox. It's why a lot of us are clamoring for Marvel to regain the rights. Or at the very least, pull a Sony & outsource production to Marvel Studios in exchange for letting the F4 & everyone connected to them into the MCU.
styl3s
Member
So they need 4 failed films to realize they need to just let it go back to Marvel? I wish First Class and Days ended up major box office flops because all this shit needs to go back to Marvel.
Even as entertaining as First Class and Days were, they were just alright superhero films. Could you imagine a X-Men movie directed by the russos? Could you imagine Infinite story with the Fantastic Four? Finally having a movie where Galactus and Silver Surfer are legit? Fuck fox. Marvel tried to extend their hand like they did with Sony and Fox slapped it away i hope every X-Men and FF movie they ever make from now on is a horrible critical and box office failure /salty
Yeah, FF can be great but not under Fox.
Even as entertaining as First Class and Days were, they were just alright superhero films. Could you imagine a X-Men movie directed by the russos? Could you imagine Infinite story with the Fantastic Four? Finally having a movie where Galactus and Silver Surfer are legit? Fuck fox. Marvel tried to extend their hand like they did with Sony and Fox slapped it away i hope every X-Men and FF movie they ever make from now on is a horrible critical and box office failure /salty
They didn't follow it religiously in the latest film and look what happened.
Yeah, FF can be great but not under Fox.
He was being facetious.
That's short-hand. Nobody expects Fox to just "give" them the rights back. Most people mean they should be willing to sell them back, negotiate or trade with Marvel, or find some compromise so that Marvel can get their hands on the properties again, somehow, some way. ANY way.
But Fox is LOSING money on the franchise. They aren't even making a profit. Fant4stic bombed and they took a hit on it. It's not a money-maker of a franchise for them; it's a money sink. Fox might convince themselves they can spin that crap into gold, but there's no good reason for them to make more, not when something like Deadpool can become one of the most successful movie they've ever had on a fraction of Fant4stic's budget. They aren't getting merchandising money out of it either (there's almost no Fantastic Four merchandise anywhere and I think even Marvel gets merchandising rights, a'la Spider-man). To them, they "have" Fantastic Four movie rights, but they're not profitable, cost them money instead of making them, and they'd probably make more money selling the rights back to Marvel than to keep fighting to make their failures work.
The difference is X-men's alternate timelines and dimensions came AFTER there was several critically praised X-men films. Days of Future Past and even First Class were heavily pitched as ways to get BACK to that quality following the stinkers that were X3 and Origins: Wolverine. A lot of it was call-backs to the positives of the first X-mens, to the point that First Class practically just redid the opening shots of the first X-men film with Magneto scene-for-scene.
There's no positive memories or a past history of quality with the Fantastic Four movies to lean on.
Back to the Future as a franchise ended nearly 30 years ago, and Terminator hasn't had a single good installment since Terminator 2. The latest Terminator was widely criticized for being an obtuse, complicated, nonsensical mess of a film and roundly rejected by critics and audience. I'm more than convinced that, yep, Fox can do this with Fantastic Four to equally baffling results.
Three movies and they haven't course-corrected once. Again, Days of Future Past SIDESTEPPED the disaster of the previous films and focused only on the highlights and greatest hits of the Singer films at the exclusive of everything else. You still have Hugh Jackman's widely praised Wolverine, Ian McKellan and Patrick Steward's beloved Magneto and Xavier, and a marriage with the youthful boldness and history of First Class... but if the X-men series was nothing but X3 and Origins: Wolverine, and then they did Days of Future Past, nobody would care, nor should they.
Fox isn't the brightest. They'll look at the tone of Deadpool and decide Human Torch needs to make more boner jokes, or that The Thing needs to brutally smash a guy with a witty one-liner. Or they'll look at the tone of DOFP and be grimly serious... again... just like Fant4stic (which was FAR more in the tone of DOFP than it was, you know, Fantastic Four).
They'll make it like this, or that, or like anything and everything BUT the Fantastic Four.
Because they have no idea what the Fantastic Four should be like.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Not saying it's perfect, but what alternative objective method could they use to enforce quality? RT, metacritic, etc, while flawed, is the best we have in terms of seeing what critical reception a movie received. I believe it's something Marvel would use/has used when contacting 3rd parties who own movie rights based on their properties.
That sounds horrible. However, now that you said it, I would love for them to do that so I can take an over/under it doing 50M domestic and 150M WW. I am going with under right now.
Coriolanus
Banned
What kind of assistant?
Feels like they're just burning money just to hold on to Dr. Doom more than making actual good movies.
But Fox hasn't gotten Doctor Doom right in three films. If they cared about Doctor Doom, they wouldn't have screwed him up in the first place.
And then screwed him up TWO MORE TIMES following that.
Extra Sauce
Member
Is that why they are going ahead with Snyder's Justice League?
Or is it because it would be too costly to do otherwise?
Just have the new one open with the new Reed Richards watching the events of Fant4stic through the bridge and use that as a jumping off point for doing the Hickman run.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No he wasn't, and neither are the people pushing for it over and over again in this thread. They literally think it's just that easy. It's fantasy football, they're full of shit, and they don't care because that's how frustration works. I mean, it's okay, it's just bullshitting about movies on the internet. But it can be harmless and ridiculous at the same time. Which this is. It's port-begging for superheroes.
I'm not gonna fisk the entirety of your post like you did mine, but to address some of your points - there's nothing stopping them from using the same cast to go in a completely different direction, or using the same cast to introduce a new cast and move from there. They've done it once already with X-Men. That shit about it only working because there were good X-Men movies before doesn't really carry weight. Days of Future Past worked because it was a good movie that people liked, and it promised a future where more good movies could be made (a future that Singer didn't really nail with Apocalypse, unfortunately). It doesn't matter that there haven't been good Fantastic Four movies yet. What matters is that if they took this hypothetical route, the focus would be on the fixing it. Openly. Telling the audience "We get it. We fucked this up. We're going to set it right."
That's goodwill inducing. Granted, they have to actually stick the fuckin landing, and I understand people being highly skeptical of that, but to suggest it couldn't possibly fucking work, to toss that possibility out-of-hand? I don't buy it. You center a marketing campaign around a much more fun direction, you have people get out on the PR trail making all the right noises, people will have their interests piqued. Just like they did with First Class (a reset) and Days of Future Past (another reset).
Fox is in a position right now, with the success of Deadpool, to apply the lesson that source faithfulness works. Granted, they shoulda maybe already learned that via looking at the MCU's output, but sometimes executives only acutely learn lessons once it affects them directly, and Deadpool is a hell of a wakeup call on that note.
Fantastic Four is a potential earner that they have the rights to. This is a cinematic landscape that is putting heavy premiums on the concepts of shared universes. They have the ingredients they need to play in that game, with X-Men and Fantastic Four. There's no way they're going to just "let them go" or "give them back" now. Not after almost 370mil domestic for Deadpool.
That one success is going to buy Fox's Superhero properties a good five to ten more years by itself.
I'm pretty sure my tossed off hypothetical is considerably less horrible than your idea of tying film industry business practices to fuckin' Rotten Tomatoes scores.
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