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Project Cars 2 |OT| Buggy Racing At The Four Seasons

fresquito

Member
I just did a quick test. New Career (didn't have one), Rookie at Sugo. I do Qualy for 5 mins, then go to pits. Best time: 1:40.xxx. Skip to end of session. Best time: 1:40.xxx.

I can't be bothered to test any further. If this was a 100% thing before, it is not now. Don't know whether it's 100% fixed, either.
 

Mascot

Member
I just did a quick test. New Career (didn't have one), Rookie at Sugo. I do Qualy for 5 mins, then go to pits. Best time: 1:40.xxx. Skip to end of session. Best time: 1:40.xxx.

I can't be bothered to test any further. If this was a 100% thing before, it is not now. Don't know whether it's 100% fixed, either.

I thought the problem wasn't your own time changing, it was that all the AI suddenly went supersonic if you skipped to the end of the session?
 

JamboGT

Member
I just did a quick test. New Career (didn't have one), Rookie at Sugo. I do Qualy for 5 mins, then go to pits. Best time: 1:40.xxx. Skip to end of session. Best time: 1:40.xxx.

I can't be bothered to test any further. If this was a 100% thing before, it is not now. Don't know whether it's 100% fixed, either.

It wasn't 100% before but it did seem like a 3/5 replication.
 
Has anything been said of when consoles might receive the OEM setups for road cars that are an option on PC? I was a big fan of Jussi's manufacturer-style setups in pCARS 1, and was thrilled to learn that he had a hand in tuning the base setups for the sequel.

In other news, some enterprising individuals have been poking around the game files and have found many, (but not all), of the cars coming via DLC:

Audi
Audi S1 Eks (Rallycross)
Audi Sport Quattro S1(Group B Rallycross)
Audi R18 e-tron quattro (2016) (LMP1)

Citroen
Citroen DS3 (Rallycross)

Ferrari
Ferrari FXX K
Ferrari F12tdf
Ferrari 488 Challenge (Ferrari Challenge)
Ferrari 250 Testarossa
Ferrari 458 Speciale Aperta
Ferrari 512 BB LM (Group 5)
Ferrari F355 Challenge (Classic Ferrari Challenge)

Ford
Ford Bronco RTR (Off Road Trucks)
Ford Bronco Brocky (Off Road Trucks)
(Presumably the same)

Porsche
Porsche 961(GTO or Group 5)
Porsche 991 RSR (GTE)
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche 917 Langheck (Vintage Prototype A)
Porsche 908/03 (Vintage Prototype A)
Porsche 917/10 (Vintage Prototype A)
Porsche 917K (Vintage Prototype A)
Porsche 935/78 (Group 5)
Porsche 959 S
Porsche 919 Hybrid (LMP1)

Toyota

Toyota TS050 Hybrid (LMP1)

SMS
SMS RWD Dunester

It warms my heart to see the Ferrari and Porsche licenses being put to good use.
 

Jamesways

Member
I haven't posted in about a year, just wanted to chime in and say...
Thank god I'm in love with Assetto Corsa!
Man, I'm bummed. I was so excited for this, I haven't been this disappointed in a release in a long time. But, I'm sure they'll work hard to patch the bejesus out of it. I know I'll have a ton of fun with it in the long haul.

GT1/GT3 quick races testing tracks and weather has been pretty fun so far. Avoiding pretty much everything else hoping menu slowdown, pad setting issues, etc won't come to light.

Im actually considering GT Sport as an option if there's any car/any track quick races.

And WRC got pushed back the second time for the US. Should have gotten it off the U.K. Account rather than fill the US wallet in prep. Bummer week all around. But at least the Ferrari pack for AC has been submitted to Sony, so that'll be soon.
 
Well, no, it's only for PC..........
Well, at least I'm used to this model from Warframe, and it works out.

Push updates out as quickly as they're done for PC, get feedback and then bundle a bunch of those updates (with the kinks worked out) as a console patch at a later date. Warframe on the consoles is anywhere from two weeks to a month behind the PC.

Then again I'm not used to seeing console versions of games barely being tested at all, which seems to be the case here.

Is there any word on how they'll handle console updates from this point on? Is it all going to be tested in-house from now on (outside of cert)?
 
I just did a tire wear test.

McLaren 650S GT3 @Catalunya GP, summer, 45°C track temperature(113°F), dry sunny weather, 2pm in the afternoon. Started with 89L of fuel (default) and drove until I ran out => 37 laps.
I tried the Hard Slick for now(there is no "medium", just soft and hard) with standard tire pressure.

On the more stressed, left side of the car, the tire temperatures had an average of 95°C over the whole time with a standard deviation of 4.5°C. The track got 3°C warmer over a timespan of 68 minutes. So basically I was in the upper part of the ideal operation window.

Over the course of the 37 laps, I did not reach any real fall-off of the hard slick. Actually, had I not run out of fuel in the last corner of the 37th lap, the last lap would have been my fastest. I could feel the wear to some degree at the end, but at that point the lower weight (89l of fuel have a weight of about 63kg) still meant that I could accelerate out of corners faster and brake later than in the beginning.

Lap 6 S1 (blue) vs Lap 36 S1 (orange):
tirewearspeedlap677lvuijuq.png

My lap times went down by about 1s (~1% at Catalunya). Which is not entirely unrealistic.

The whole thing wasn't as useful as I thought it would be, since I never reached that fall-off on the hard slick. One lesson can be learned here though: If you pick the Hard slicks on a hot day and don't overdrive your tires, take more fuel with you than the default in GT3 cars!


I might do another test with the Softs later this week. Not sure if I should take more fuel this time, or change the default tire pressure according to the hot track surface this time. Probably be best to keep everything default and hope that I'll actually reach the fall-off wear point where lap times will get worse again and then see how fast they get how much worse.

Edit:
PS: Nice to see you back, James!
 
Actually i am worried about the sales of this game and what could mean for the future.

If people end up rejecting due to the bugs it gets more and more appealing to stop going for realism and licenses to focus on gimmcks and a dumbed down experience that reviews and sells better.

Hopefully they can at least match the first game in sales, because this core foundation is exactly what i want in a racing sim, and i would hate it if they cant continue due to the lack of support.

I think its a travesty that other racing games coming out this semester are / will be reviewing and selling better than this.
 
If people end up rejecting due to the bugs it gets more and more appealing to stop going for realism and licenses to focus on gimmcks and a dumbed down experience that reviews and sells better.
Wouldn't the moral of the story here be not to launch with a ton of bugs? And to actually test all versions of your games in-house?

As someone who hasn't really been affected by the bugs people are complaining about, I'm still going to hold off on the game for a while to see what changes happen to the career. Man, even when the bugs don't affect you they can still affect you.
 

Gestault

Member
Actually i am worried about the sales of this game and what could mean for the future.

If people end up rejecting due to the bugs it gets more and more appealing to stop going for realism and licenses to focus on gimmcks and a dumbed down experience that reviews and sells better.

Hopefully they can at least match the first game in sales, because this core foundation is exactly what i want in a racing sim, and i would hate it if they cant continue due to the lack of support.

The lesson they need to take away is don't launch partially broken on three platforms all at once. It makes everything about their follow-up support much harder to manage.

Making the style changes you're afraid of is totally divorced from the QA shortcomings; that's basically a non-sequiter. Knowing the studio, I doubt that's something worth concern over, which I totally agree is best.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Has anything been said of when consoles might receive the OEM setups for road cars that are an option on PC? I was a big fan of Jussi's manufacturer-style setups in pCARS 1, and was thrilled to learn that he had a hand in tuning the base setups for the sequel.

In other news, some enterprising individuals have been poking around the game files and have found many, (but not all), of the cars coming via DLC:



It warms my heart to see the Ferrari and Porsche licenses being put to good use.

No new touring cars. :( Also probably only the biggest WEC fans will spot the differences between existing and new
Audi R18 & Toyota TS
 

danowat

Banned
Actually i am worried about the sales of this game and what could mean for the future.

If people end up rejecting due to the bugs it gets more and more appealing to stop going for realism and licenses to focus on gimmcks and a dumbed down experience that reviews and sells better.

Hopefully they can at least match the first game in sales, because this core foundation is exactly what i want in a racing sim, and i would hate it if they cant continue due to the lack of support.

I think its a travesty that other racing games coming out this semester are / will be reviewing and selling better than this.

Once bitten, twice shy.

Third time, get knotted.
 

fresquito

Member
I just did a tire wear test.

McLaren 650S GT3 @Catalunya GP, summer, 45°C track temperature(113°F), dry sunny weather, 2pm in the afternoon. Started with 89L of fuel (default) and drove until I ran out => 37 laps.
I tried the Hard Slick for now(there is no "medium", just soft and hard) with standard tire pressure.

On the more stressed, left side of the car, the tire temperatures had an average of 95°C over the whole time with a standard deviation of 4.5°C. The track got 3°C warmer over a timespan of 68 minutes. So basically I was in the upper part of the ideal operation window.

Over the course of the 37 laps, I did not reach any real fall-off of the hard slick. Actually, had I not run out of fuel in the last corner of the 37th lap, the last lap would have been my fastest. I could feel the wear to some degree at the end, but at that point the lower weight (89l of fuel have a weight of about 63kg) still meant that I could accelerate out of corners faster and brake later than in the beginning.

Lap 6 S1 (blue) vs Lap 36 S1 (orange):
tirewearspeedlap677lvuijuq.png

My lap times went down by about 1s (~1% at Catalunya). Which is not entirely unrealistic.

The whole thing wasn't as useful as I thought it would be, since I never reached that fall-off on the hard slick. One lesson can be learned here though: If you pick the Hard slicks on a hot day and don't overdrive your tires, take more fuel with you than the default in GT3 cars!


I might do another test with the Softs later this week. Not sure if I should take more fuel this time, or change the default tire pressure according to the hot track surface this time. Probably be best to keep everything default and hope that I'll actually reach the fall-off wear point where lap times will get worse again and then see how fast they get how much worse.

Edit:
PS: Nice to see you back, James!
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
 
Last night the AI decided to up their qualifying game a bit more. I had them set at 40% and was setting lap times way faster than they were. Then I skipped to the end of the session and suddenly the #1 place AI had not only suddenly beat me by a considerable margin, but also beaten the current in-game world record for the track by 1 second lmao.

About to jump on and see if the patch has made this a thing of the past.
 

TJP

Member
Of course. Just seems churlish for a sim racing site to pretend that a new sim racer wasn't launching, that's all.
In context, RD were late on all of the sim racing expo news too; the rF2 news and AC information took ages to be released. I got news on AC 2 on Discord long before RD's news appeared.

In other news, good to see a timely patch being released.
 

Klocker

Member
Ordered Forza 7 for my Xbox just going to put this on the back burner for a month or two to see if the bugs get worked out and when it comes to X if it actually is enhanced to be equal with the PC version then I will have two different games to play.
 

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Does the game penalize for jumping a rolling start? I've been in one or two online games at Indy where people seemingly jumped before the green, but they crashed into the slower cars ahead and quit so I couldn't tell. On that note, I like that they display whatever penalty a driver has next to their name in the position tracker.
 
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Want more?

Did the Soft Tire now. Comparison between the last Sector of ...

Lap 1-8:
tiretempanalysislap1-nss2a.png

the purple one was when I had problems with an overheating left front tire, also pic #3


Lap 29-37:
Got a little harder to drive, way less consistent and between 2-3 seconds slower per lap.


Differences between Hard and Soft GT3 Slick:
projectcars2tirewearaw3s12.png


Btw. the in-game tire wear indicators (=how color-filled the tire symbols are), are empty at about 50% wear already, higher wear is only visible with 3rd party apps that use the game's shared memory telemetry channels. So, when one tire symbol is empty, the car still drives ok, I'd stay longer.

No lap-time graphs because I was slacking off a little, not super consistent lap times. Audio low and listening to podcast [don't drive and ...laugh].
 

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
One of the people that worked on the online reputation system posted a bit more in-depth description of how it works:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?53054-F-rank-the-new-U-rank-to-easy-to-rank-up&p=1374533&viewfull=1#post1374533

I was one of the designers for the innards of this Online Rating system (Online Lead Mike Laskey was the primary model author). My background is in financial risk modeling prior to joining SMS. Some of the goals of the model are to encourage early momentum/encouragement (U -> C) while making the highest ranks (B -> S) something more difficult to achieve and therefore more meaningful. The Safety Score model penalizes any "dirty" behavior (examples: hitting walls/objects/opponents, off-track excursions and/or other etiquette violations). I won't list everything and the point value of each (partially because we want to observe how the model is performing on the broad population, also we don't want people "gaming the system").

Is the model perfect? No. Modeling human behavior is one of the toughest things on the planet (just ask anyone from failed i-banks such as Bear Stearns or Lehman Bros.) However, we believe we captured the major factors, time will tell and we can make adjustments in the future. The model is a bit flexible, one example: it allows for more "touching" in RallyCross versus other non-RX racing formats.

On the bi-lateral fault assignment, it's a good starting point (and empirically proven in other racing games). Ideally, we would have a human Race Director that could watch every race and properly assign blame for every incident (well even that's impossible but let's say correct 80% of the time at least). Obviously this is cost prohibitive, SMS cannot hire that many "live" Race Directors to watch every race. There were some modeling techniques we considered for helping with fault assignment but in the end even they were not perfect. This led us to the 50-50 identification model which, over time, will correctly select the clean vs. dirty drivers.

Personally I'm happy to see already some "B" drivers. The intention was not to keep people locked very long in the lower levels (we could have done the model that way but felt that would be discouraging). Each person, given enough time will eventually get to their "final" level. The cleaner you are the faster it will be achieved. For the truly bad drivers, they will probably "max out" at C (or lower) -- the model does eventually plateau for each type of player that we modeled: Rookie, Veteran, Pro.

Hope this helps you understand things better. With any statistical/mathematical models there are always constraints and these models are continuously evolving/improving, they will never be 100% "correct". We will keep an eye how things are going and also make changes as needed to give you guys a better online experience. It's very early right now to say if it is working good/bad. Certainly I have seen much more appreciative posts than complaints about the ORL both here and other forums.
 

fresquito

Member
Want more?

Did the Soft Tire now. Comparison between the last Sector of ...

Lap 1-8:



Lap 29-37:

Got a little harder to drive, way less consistent and between 2-3 seconds slower per lap.


Differences between Hard and Soft GT3 Slick:
projectcars2tirewearaw3s12.png


Btw. the in-game tire wear indicators (=how color-filled the tire symbols are), are empty at about 50% wear already, higher wear is only visible with 3rd party apps that use the game's shared memory telemetry channels. So, when one tire symbol is empty, the car still drives ok, I'd stay longer.

No lap-time graphs because I was slacking off a little, not super consistent lap times. Audio low and listening to podcast [don't drive and ...laugh].
Sounds solid to me.

About the empty tire in n the HUD, it was the same in PC1. It's a design decision I don't understand.
 

fresquito

Member
How are people getting on with the PC patch? Big improvements?
I haven't noticed any change. Then again, my experience was mostly smooth before the patch, with some minor problems, such as flag not showing correctly or my WMD badge not showing. Other problems I had have easy workarounds (pit exit panel showing wrong info can be countered by actually looking at the track signs or no virtual mirror can be avoided by using lite HUD).

I haven't played Career or raced against the AI yet (except that one test I did yesterday), Community Events work great, Practice works great and Online works great so far (Driver License really works).

Edit:
Sounds solid to me.

About the empty tire in n the HUD, it was the same in PC1. It's a design decision I don't understand.
Upon further investigation, this is what I've been told:
Because even with the thread worn, there is still rubber left on which you CAN drive on, but you shouldn't because it is the structural compound which isn't designed to provide grip but rather to serve as a rubber shroud for the carcass.
I think the external apps detects the total thickness of the tire instead of the thickness of the rubber which is designed to serve as a contact patch to the road.
So first 50% is for the treads and the other 50% is the rest of the carcass.
 

danowat

Banned
Fuck this game.

So I spend a lot of time in private testing creating a setup for a race, saved the setup, but when you go to career or quick race, the setup has gone, nothing there.

Ok, I remember the settings, I'll do it manually before the race starts

Qualified first, race starts, and game thinks I am at the back of the grid, despite still being in 1st

The driving is actually really good, the progressive grip of the tyres is almost as good as AC (although I still think the lateral weight to grip transition is a little 'edgy', and the low speed longitudinal torque to grip transition is a bit wonky)

Shame it's wrapped in a such a shitty buggy package.
 

fresquito

Member
Fuck this game.

So I spend a lot of time in private testing creating a setup for a race, saved the setup, but when you go to career or quick race, the setup has gone, nothing there.

Ok, I remember the settings, I'll do it manually before the race starts

Qualified first, race starts, and game thinks I am at the back of the grid, despite still being in 1st

The driving is actually really good, the progressive grip of the tyres is almost as good as AC (although I still think the lateral weight to grip transition is a little 'edgy', and the low speed longitudinal torque to grip transition is a bit wonky)

Shame it's wrapped in a such a shitty buggy package.
Could you elaborate? Is this a HUD thing or what? I noticed the Minimal version of the positions Widget is bugged and position sometimes shows 99/99. Full version seems to work well.

It's a shame the console versions are so borked.
 

danowat

Banned
Could you elaborate? Is this a HUD thing or what? I noticed the Minimal version of the positions Widget is bugged and position sometimes shows 99/99. Full version seems to work well.

It's a shame the console versions are so borked.

I am sitting on the grid in pole position, the top left position board shows me in 12th, 1:35 behind the first place (who is in 2nd), so it thinks the pack have lapped me even though the race hasn't started.

I stay in first for the entire race, game says I came 12th.
 

fresquito

Member
I am sitting on the grid in pole position, the top left position board shows me in 12th, 1:35 behind the first place (who is in 2nd), so it thinks the pack have lapped me even though the race hasn't started.

I stay in first for the entire race, game says I came 12th.
Do you use relative box? That shows you wether you are lapped or not.

Maybe it's just a HUD thing, after all. Either way, it's ridiculous.
 

danowat

Banned
Do you use relative box? That shows you wether you are lapped or not.

Maybe it's just a HUD thing, after all. Either way, it's ridiculous.

Relative box? don't know what that is.

It's not just a HUD thing, the game thinks I am a lap behind, I bet if I put the AI to 0 and lapped them I could probably come in first.
 

fresquito

Member
Relative box? don't know what that is.

It's not just a HUD thing, the game thinks I am a lap behind, I bet if I put the AI to 0 and lapped them I could probably come in first.
In the HUD menu there's a box in the bot left corner, set to off. That box tells you the distance you have against the three cars physically behind and in front. So, if it shows the car behind in white, then you are on the same lap. If it shows red, you are outlapped. If it shows blue, he is outlapped. It's really a very useful tool to know what's happening around you (specially handy in multiclass races).
 

Mascot

Member
I am sitting on the grid in pole position, the top left position board shows me in 12th, 1:35 behind the first place (who is in 2nd), so it thinks the pack have lapped me even though the race hasn't started.

I stay in first for the entire race, game says I came 12th.
It's a feature. You need to be faster than the AI by at least a whole lap during qualifying.

Git gud and stop moaning unnecessarily.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Lol I just learned that my friend who I originally borrowed the game from for two days sold it after he experienced the current state of the game. I wonder what the return numbers are going to be especially with physical copies and on Steam where it's easy to make a refund.

Does the game penalize for jumping a rolling start? I've been in one or two online games at Indy where people seemingly jumped before the green, but they crashed into the slower cars ahead and quit so I couldn't tell. On that note, I like that they display whatever penalty a driver has next to their name in the position tracker.

Not exactly on topic here, but rolling starts are a mess in this game. I've tried a couple of automatic ones and there were plenty of issues. I've witnessed AI cars crashing into each other before lights going green, AI setting different gears in my car in preparation for the start of the race or the car suddenly turning left or right when I was given control over the car.

I am sitting on the grid in pole position, the top left position board shows me in 12th, 1:35 behind the first place (who is in 2nd), so it thinks the pack have lapped me even though the race hasn't started.

I stay in first for the entire race, game says I came 12th.

I had that bug on one ocassion. I was leading and then I got a blue flag warning and realized I'm actually last. Thankfully it was the beginning of the race and the bug didn't reappear after that.
 
Yeah, I'm going to wait for a few months. Might end up getting a GOTY edition if they do one similar to the first one. It's such a shame to see the launch go this way, particularly on consoles.

People saying the online racing is somewhat decent is promising...
 

Watto

Neo Member
I think it's mad they are having pretty similar issues to when PC1 launched. And they are so aggressive on their forums when people complain, a real shame.
 

danowat

Banned
I think it's mad they are having pretty similar issues to when PC1 launched. And they are so aggressive on their forums when people complain, a real shame.

Not sure if it's rose tinted specs, but I can't remember PC1 being quite this bad at launch, at least on console.
 

Watto

Neo Member
Yeah it's tricky to compare when the launches are several year apart. But stuff like the AI not working properly, tyre heating not working properly, that sort of thing was there at the start of PC1 as well.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Not sure if it's rose tinted specs, but I can't remember PC1 being quite this bad at launch, at least on console.

I haven't tried multiplayer, but from what I've played in singleplayer I'd say it's in worse state. In PC1 the main issue after launch for me were the controls and not the countless bugs. In PC2 I literally had to keep switching between events and car classes to find something that's enjoyable and sufficiently polished.
 

Watto

Neo Member
They really should have realised by now that they are trying to do too much. Cut the content in half and they could have a really polished product that works well.
 

Gandie

Member
Dang, LMP2 got nerfed hard compared to PC1.
Also the gearing(?) seemed broken on the Salzburgring. Barely got moving in 1st gear, didn't even max out 5th on the long straight. That's probably a quick fix in the set up, but still weird to have the standard settings so broken.
 

fresquito

Member
Dang, LMP2 got nerfed hard compared to PC1.
Also the gearing(?) seemed broken on the Salzburgring. Barely got moving in 1st gear, didn't even max out 5th on the long straight. That's probably a quick fix in the set up, but still weird to have the standard settings so broken.
People use the word broken so bad these days.
 

danowat

Banned
People use the word broken so bad these days.

I don't know, it's fairly apt

Definition of broken

2 :damaged or altered by or as if by breaking (see 1break): such as
a :having undergone or been subjected to fracture a broken leg
b :not working properly a broken camera
c of land surfaces :being irregular, interrupted, or full of obstacles a long broken ridge
d :violated by transgression :not kept or honored a broken promise
e :discontinuous, interrupted a broken sleep
f :disrupted by change
g of a tulip flower :having an irregular, streaked, or blotched pattern especially from virus infection
 
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